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Movie parts 1&2
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sunflwr8668




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:10 am    Post subject: Movie parts 1&2 Reply with quote

Has anyone watched the parts of the movie up yet on Josh's site? They are very interesting. Some of the things are different then was stated on here. Ages of Ricky and Greg Sharp are stated as 13 and 5 which is confusing. I thought Rick was 9? Was Justin over to stay as a friend of Ricks? Also it shows that all three were found in the front room. You can see that by the outlines on the floor. Neighbors ideas about Sue are interesting also. hmmmmm...
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Carolyn2008




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: Movie parts 1&2 Reply with quote

sunflwr8668 wrote:
Has anyone watched the parts of the movie up yet on Josh's site? They are very interesting. Some of the things are different then was stated on here. Ages of Ricky and Greg Sharp are stated as 13 and 5 which is confusing. I thought Rick was 9? Was Justin over to stay as a friend of Ricks? Also it shows that all three were found in the front room. You can see that by the outlines on the floor. Neighbors ideas about Sue are interesting also. hmmmmm...


I got a little peeved at the fact that people judged them because they were on welfare. Some things never change because that still happens a lot. In the pictures they all seemed pretty happy and well taken care of. Looks like Sue did her best with what she was given. What else was she supposed to do? Let the kids starve so people would look at her different? It never ends. Rumors are just that...rumors and people need to look at themselves before judging others for trying to do right by their families.
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sunflwr8668




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, I agree, my mom had state aid off and on when she and dad divorced and I'm well aware of the stigma but it also gives some insight about what people around her were thinking. I had a post on a different thread about men that target single mothers that have small children. Creeps are out there and who knows who they are? My mom dated and who knows, maybe our neighbors had the same opinion of her. One of those boyfriends did turn out to be a creep too! You never know. Even if Glenna Sue Sharp wasn't mother of the year, she didn't deserve what happened to her. Sad
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Nor.Cal.Gal




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunflwr8668 wrote:
Of course, I agree, my mom had state aid off and on when she and dad divorced and I'm well aware of the stigma but it also gives some insight about what people around her were thinking. I had a post on a different thread about men that target single mothers that have small children. Creeps are out there and who knows who they are? My mom dated and who knows, maybe our neighbors had the same opinion of her. One of those boyfriends did turn out to be a creep too! You never know. Even if Glenna Sue Sharp wasn't mother of the year, she didn't deserve what happened to her. Sad


I agree with you. Our sitiuation in the eighties was quite like the Sharp's.
My mother never wanted or thought she would ever need state aid.
But you know she was a single mother with 5 children (3 biological and 2 stepchildren that were not hers), cleaning houses, going to school, with no help from our father.
Its hard! And they should be looking at the good things, not nitpicking the unfortunate.
There are people who have a bad view on aid because of those who abuse it!
It is to assist you, not to use as a 'job'. Im sure Sue did as my own mother did. She HAD to ask for help, because she wasnt getting it anywhere else!
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Carolyn2008




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunflwr8668 wrote:
Of course, I agree, my mom had state aid off and on when she and dad divorced and I'm well aware of the stigma but it also gives some insight about what people around her were thinking. I had a post on a different thread about men that target single mothers that have small children. Creeps are out there and who knows who they are? My mom dated and who knows, maybe our neighbors had the same opinion of her. One of those boyfriends did turn out to be a creep too! You never know. Even if Glenna Sue Sharp wasn't mother of the year, she didn't deserve what happened to her. Sad


I had to get it after I had my son; I didn't get paid for maternity leave. Funny thing was is I was at the checkout with all my stuff and the cashier told me I was the only person he had ever seen buying all baby needs with my food stamps. Back then they didn't have the cards, so EVERYONE in line knew what was up. Now it seems so much more discreet for people and I suppose that's a good thing. The day I went back to work, I sent a letter to welfare and told them I was back working. I guess my point is that Sue could have done illegal things to support her family, but she obviously didn't. She applied for assistance and was approved. She didn't need to justify herself to anyone.
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Heather




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm watching part one now.
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Heather




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So far it's interesting, and I learned that Dana was NOT found in the kitchen, but on the floor with John according to part one, and they do think whoever picked the boys up and dropped them off could be the suspect(s).
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J




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But Craig has admitted to us all here now that he picked up and drove the boys home
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msmartt




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I just finished watching both videos. Three statements in there that could probably be expanded on a bit.

In part 1, 4m05s into the video a reporter, Victoria Metcalf, stated that she believed Sue had a lot of men freinds, that there were rumors of her dealing drugs and involved in prostitution.

At the 5m21s mark Zonita Seabolt states that she wouldn't let her kids go to Sue's cabin because she seemed to feel it was a bad enviornment and that Sue was a bad parent.

At the 3m28s mark of Part 2 Gary Wingate says he believes the murders happened because of something Sue was into.

I bring this up because there seems to be few limits on what can be said about Marty. Nobody has any problem pointing out all the negative stuff he was involved with. What can be said about these three statements? Why is their a reporter, who appears to be a professional one at that, who says she knows of rumors that Sue was involved in what Bliss may want to call immoral behavior. Are these rumors true? Was Sue involved in dealing drugs and prostitution? Is that why the Seabolt children weren't allowed to go to the Sharp's? Is Gary Wingate possiblly right? Could Sue have done something on her own to bring this upon her? Maybe she was involved in some shady business with a drug ripoff? Maybe she knew first hand about the rip off, or was directly involved in it and because of that she was targetted by the infamous Quincy/Keddie drug ring? If Sue was involved in prostitution did she freelance or have a pimp? Maybe she just crossed paths with an upset 'John'? Maybe she tried to hold back on her pimp and was 'taught' a lesson?

Of course I realize that by asking these questions I will face the wrath of everyone on here because its okay to point fingers, as long as you don't point them towards Sue. They will gladly talk about how evil my Uncle was while raising Sue up to saintly status. People ask how can I defend someone who obviously led a a less then moral life but will gladly defend Sue despite the fact that the video raises questions on her morality as well.

Are one of you regulars able to answer those questions? Not the typical answer either where one person says "I'm holding on information because its gonna cause_______." Or an answer along the lines of "That has nothing to do with this." Or maybe the occasional "Its not nice to talk about the dead like that." No one has a problem talking ill of my dead uncle, why don't you start bringing out the full scoop on everyone?

I'm just throwing out other possibilities. Lets see if anyone out there is will to answer.
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J




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

msmartt, I am actually agreeing with you on this one, I also noticed all those people said those things and I also found that interesting. Neighbours and people closely related, I wondered about that myself and perhaps there was something going on never brought up or mentioned on here. It is worth something to think about. What was Sue involved in? Could something she had done behind the scenes that noone even knows about? Is a possibility.
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sassy




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

go and read what was posted about the reporter on josh's site, if you notice she said RUMORS. as far as gary, he did not know my family at all. If i remember right about the Seabolts, her kids did come over and play with us. i am sure since she was into the church thing that she did look down poorly on my family as my mom trying to raise 5 kids on her own with the assistance of the state. my mom did not date many men as stated on this site and video. she was too busy raising us kids. nor did she have anything to do with drugs, she didn't even drink.
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J




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank You Sassy for your input. You know its so hard to draw any kind of conclusions to anything when everyone says something opposite. If a person isnt involved or know the people who were, at this point it seems almost impossible to figure anything out. How does a person identify who is lying and about what? I surely cant. Guess I will just keep reading and watching. Feel frustrated though
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msmartt




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sassy wrote:
go and read what was posted about the reporter on josh's site, if you notice she said RUMORS. as far as gary, he did not know my family at all. If i remember right about the Seabolts, her kids did come over and play with us. i am sure since she was into the church thing that she did look down poorly on my family as my mom trying to raise 5 kids on her own with the assistance of the state. my mom did not date many men as stated on this site and video. she was too busy raising us kids. nor did she have anything to do with drugs.


If you notice I said RUMORS also.

Are you sure you knew everything your mother was into? When I was a teenager I wasn't aware of everything my parents were into. Also, just because the Seabolt kids were over there playing doesn't mean they were allowed to. As a kid i played in many places my mother didn't want me going to. I'm pretty sure that my kid has hung out in a place or two he wasn't allowed to be. She said her kids were not allowed to go there. Straight out of Mom Seabolts mouth. I am apt to believe her when she says they weren't allowed there instead of you saying you think they played over there. She doesn't have to think about it. Her statement is that they were n ot allowed to go over because she didn't think it was a good enviornment.

And again, I said RUMOR as well.

You can dispute what Gary said but the fact is that he still said it and obviously has a reason for believing it. Maybe he knew what Dana was telling him. Maybe he heard from other people as well. He may not have had direct involvement with your family, but members of his family were directly involved with members of your family. Maybe John made comments that Dana passed on in casual conversation. If they were freinds then the certainly had personal conversations. Its not a stretch to say that if they did, parts of those conversations may slip into seperate conversations between Gary and Dana. It is certainly possible to think that Gary was at least aware of Sue and probably knew, albeit second-hand, some information about her. And plenty of people say it is a small community enviornment. A community where everyone knows evryone.
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msmartt




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sassy wrote:
she didn't even drink.


Yet Marilyn asked her to go to the Keddie Bar with Marty and Bo. I have a freind who doesn't drink either. He's a health nut. Puts nothing unnatural, or unorganic in his body. Because I know this I wouldn't ask him if he wanted to go to a bar with me. It's kind of like offering a cigarette to a non-smoker, why bother?

Does anyone else with first-hand knowledge have answers to these questions?
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Heather




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sassy wrote:
go and read what was posted about the reporter on josh's site, if you notice she said RUMORS. as far as gary, he did not know my family at all. If i remember right about the Seabolts, her kids did come over and play with us. i am sure since she was into the church thing that she did look down poorly on my family as my mom trying to raise 5 kids on her own with the assistance of the state. my mom did not date many men as stated on this site and video. she was too busy raising us kids. nor did she have anything to do with drugs, she didn't even drink.


True, the person in the documentry said Sue was a single mom of five and on welfare, and because of that there was stigma against her in the community, and then after the murders all kind of gossip spread about her. Nobody ever said the stories were true.
I assume in such a little nosy two bit town there would some proof of Sue turning tricks, or selling drugs, no?

When a murder happens to a single mom who is on the poor side people always spread these kind of stories.
They are accused of being "sluts" "prostitutes" or "selling drugs", and their lifestyle is what caused the murders..etc

I guess it's easier for people to believe the victim brought it on herself, so they can cope with the fact something so violent happened in their community. People are not comfortable thinking this was some random act of senseless violence that could have just as easily been them on the couch beat to death.
It's better for people to think, "Oh that would never happen to me, because I don't live like her."


Last edited by Heather on Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sassy




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We lived right next door, mrs. seabolt would have known her kids were there.
my mom and i were very close and we talked about everything. i would have known what she was into and not into.
as far as dana's dad goes, he was a drunk and dana did not take johnny over to his dad's house, do to the fact he did not like going there.
and by the way the only mention you made of rumors was
Quote:
that there were rumors of her dealing drugs and involved in prostitution.
.
I am not going to get into it with you as well. I am only correcting the facts.
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msmartt




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heather wrote:
sassy wrote:
go and read what was posted about the reporter on josh's site, if you notice she said RUMORS. as far as gary, he did not know my family at all. If i remember right about the Seabolts, her kids did come over and play with us. i am sure since she was into the church thing that she did look down poorly on my family as my mom trying to raise 5 kids on her own with the assistance of the state. my mom did not date many men as stated on this site and video. she was too busy raising us kids. nor did she have anything to do with drugs, she didn't even drink.


True, the person in the documentry said Sue was a single mom of five and on welfare, and because of that there was stigma against her in the community, and then after the murders all kind of gossip spread about her. Nobody ever said the stories were true.
I assume in such a little nosy two bit town there would some proof of Sue turning tricks, or selling drugs, no?


You would assume so. Also assume that most people in/from that community are not screening this board to talk about Sue either. Just because the people on here, who by and large seem to be her family and freinds, aren't coming forth witht that information doesn't mean it isn't a possibility. And again, there are those rumors, as evidenced by Metcalf's comments. Unless someone wants to say that Metcalf arbitrarilly made those comments knowing they were false. Not something most reports do, and when they do it tends to be an instant career killer.
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Nor.Cal.Gal




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

msmartt wrote:
sassy wrote:
she didn't even drink.


Yet Marilyn asked her to go to the Keddie Bar with Marty and Bo. I have a freind who doesn't drink either. He's a health nut. Puts nothing unnatural, or unorganic in his body. Because I know this I wouldn't ask him if he wanted to go to a bar with me. It's kind of like offering a cigarette to a non-smoker, why bother?

Does anyone else with first-hand knowledge have answers to these questions?


Im sorry but I tend to disagree with you Mr Smartt. I myself am not a drinker, but I will accompany friends to the bar every so often.
You do not need alcohol to have a good time. Just my opinion. Thanks
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msmartt




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sassy wrote:
We lived right next door, mrs. seabolt would have known her kids were there.
my mom and i were very close and we talked about everything. i would have known what she was into and not into.
as far as dana's dad goes, he was a drunk and dana did not take johnny over to his dad's house, do to the fact he did not like going there.
and by the way the only mention you made of rumors was
Quote:
that there were rumors of her dealing drugs and involved in prostitution.
.
I am not going to get into it with you as well. I am only correcting the facts.


i used the word rumor three times. All three in the context of what Metcalf had to say. I didn't not elude to what Seabolt or Wingate said as a rumor because they were not rumors. Seabolt stated as a matter of fact that she didn't allow her children to go over there. Regardless of what you may say about it, in the video she said she did not allow her children there. I can only take that as fact since the information is coming directly from the source.

And Gary's comment was an opinion. I didn't call that a rumor because it isn't. It is his opinion that the murders took place because of something Sue was involved with. Again, you can say what you want. Metcalf, Seabolt, and Wingate all say something different and that is indisputable. It is on video for everyone to see. Now if you want to call Seabolt a liar thats on you. And if you feel that those rumors Metcalf talks about are wrong thats fine also. And if you don't like Gary's opinion, oh well. But it is a fact that all three of them said those things.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confused
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msmartt




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nor.Cal.Gal wrote:
msmartt wrote:
sassy wrote:
she didn't even drink.


Yet Marilyn asked her to go to the Keddie Bar with Marty and Bo. I have a freind who doesn't drink either. He's a health nut. Puts nothing unnatural, or unorganic in his body. Because I know this I wouldn't ask him if he wanted to go to a bar with me. It's kind of like offering a cigarette to a non-smoker, why bother?

Does anyone else with first-hand knowledge have answers to these questions?


Im sorry but I tend to disagree with you Mr Smartt. I myself am not a drinker, but I will accompany friends to the bar every so often.
You do not need alcohol to have a good time. Just my opinion. Thanks


I never said it was out of the realm of possibilities that a non-drinker frequents a bar. Just saying that it seesm a little uncharecteristic to invite someone you know that doesn't drink to go to a bar where generally everyone is there to consume alcohol as their good time.
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Nor.Cal.Gal




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

msmartt wrote:
sassy wrote:
We lived right next door, mrs. seabolt would have known her kids were there.
my mom and i were very close and we talked about everything. i would have known what she was into and not into.
as far as dana's dad goes, he was a drunk and dana did not take johnny over to his dad's house, do to the fact he did not like going there.
and by the way the only mention you made of rumors was
Quote:
that there were rumors of her dealing drugs and involved in prostitution.
.
I am not going to get into it with you as well. I am only correcting the facts.


i used the word rumor three times. All three in the context of what Metcalf had to say. I didn't not elude to what Seabolt or Wingate said as a rumor because they were not rumors. Seabolt stated as a matter of fact that she didn't allow her children to go over there. Regardless of what you may say about it, in the video she said she did not allow her children there. I can only take that as fact since the information is coming directly from the source.

And Gary's comment was an opinion. I didn't call that a rumor because it isn't. It is his opinion that the murders took place because of something Sue was involved with. Again, you can say what you want. Metcalf, Seabolt, and Wingate all say something different and that is indisputable. It is on video for everyone to see. Now if you want to call Seabolt a liar thats on you. And if you feel that those rumors Metcalf talks about are wrong thats fine also. And if you don't like Gary's opinion, oh well. But it is a fact that all three of them said those things.


I may have misinterpreted Mrs Seabolt, but when I was watching it, I took that as she didnt like them to stay the night. But like I said, I may have misinterpreted.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ms
as far as reporters go, how many do you know get their facts straight? if you read the newspapers from back then, they have mistakes in them. Yes that is Gary's opinion and he has every right to say what he wants to say. I have every right to my opinion as well and dispute what people have to say about my family, just like you have every right with your family.
Gary had no idea what my family was like, just like I had no idea what his family was like. I only knew Dana and Lisa (through school)
By the way, if you watch the video, marilyn stated that my mom did not drink and that she will not go to the bar but marty made her ask my mom so bo would not be the third wheel. maybe if my mom was what people are trying to say what she was, all of them would be alive today.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Small towns are notorious for everyone knowing everything.
However, what they know, or believe to know, is not always accurate.
One person states an opinion, shares it with another, soon the whole town "knows" what is the "truth".
I will tell you that most of the time it is not true. It is one persons thoughts, who become everyones thoughts.
The same could be said in reference to what people believe about Mr Smartt's uncle. No?
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honeybell




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think in many horrific cases like this, there is a tendency to blame the victim. "She must have brought this upon herself", because otherwise we would have to admit something like this could happen to anyone, at anytime, for no good reason. We are admitting our own vulnerability unless we can say SOMEONE did SOMETHING to cause such a tragic, violent thing to happen to them.

In addition, as Mrs. Seabolt herself said, she was being judgmental. In the eyes of a devout Mormon, simply by virtue of being divorced could correlate to being "not a good environment" for kids.

In any case, it really doesn't matter what rumors where fact or fiction--NO ONE deserved this.
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