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What exactly happened during the murders?

 
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:59 pm    Post subject: What exactly happened during the murders? Reply with quote

Hello everyone. New blood here from the wikipedia page; I've been reading furiously just about everything I can about the Keddie murders and going back a bit to read all the interesting posts here and while I am finding out quite a bit there are still some questions I have so here it goes-

The articles I've read described the murders as being "so over the top" "gruesome beyond belief" etc without really saying what exactly made them so unique? From what I understand, sex was not involved, so what was it? I think finding out could be a clue in determining whether this was personal (which I'm leaning towards that it is) or not.
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The crime scene was very gruesome. There were even holes in the walls and the furniture. The murderers were obviously in a rage. I don't think evidence of a sexual assault was ever disclosed in this case. The police are to this day keeping that under wraps from what I understand.

I think Sue and John were found in the living room while Dana was found in the kitchen. Dana appeared to have been the victim of more violence than the other two. I'm not sure about that. It's just something I heard a long time ago. I have also heard that Sue was beaten so badly someone actually thought she was Tina. I imagine her face was indistinguishable from her daughter's.

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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, interesting, does anyone have access to or has read the police reports about this crime?
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do we know if torture was involved?
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the way they were beaten and for that long
you would think that would not be torture?
think again
imagine being beaten badly and you dont die and
you continue getting beaten and beaten and you
slowly bleed to death...the pain is so intense and
you still dont die

isnt that a type of torture?


Last edited by craig on Tue May 20, 2008 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LadyCash




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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:33 pm    Post subject: Facts, just the facts... Reply with quote

1. FBI was brought in but so far I cannot get information that a profiler was ever brought into the case at anytime

2. Tina was 12, Sheila 14, Johnny 15, Ricky and Greg (5 and 7 but not sure which one was which)

3. Tina was not beheaded. I cannot find if all of her body was found.

4. According to autopsy report, not verified as of yet, the wounds were mostly upper body. Dana was strangled. Dana was found in a sitting position, mostly likely tied to a chair and killed there.

5. Trying to find out if the victims were given something to subdue but have them conscious.

6. Rope and wire was used to tie the victims. It seems certain knots were used. That is a major clue.

7. It has been stated Bo liked Sue. No one has stated that some other male might of been interested in Sue. I have suggested an admirer from a distance but no one has responded.

8. Keddie used to be a popular tourist spot though that was before the murders. The place had gone downhill. You will hear people say that the murders "ruined" the resort. That statement is not true. It was going downhill long before.

9. Many of the people involved with this case had issues/problems. It is a touchy issue since those close to the victims, survivors and close friends get mad if any of it is brought up. It is hard to sift through gossip and truth when no one will talk about the truth even if it might not of been flattering. Just reading this forum will verify this is a fact.

10. Drugs, sex and even rape were issues going on in Keddie. It was repeated time and time again. It has not been proven though. This does not mean that this relates to the victims but it sheds light on some of the things going on in the darkness in Keddie.

11. It appears that even though everyone says they want the case solved people go out of their way to throttle all attempts at solving it.
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wonder, was it ever determined if the victims were still alive when all the torture happend? It seems like someone would have heard all that noise. Maybe they were killed and then tortured to throw people off the trail.
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the killers knew them because it was so brutal and so grusome that if they didnt know them it would keep happening but my theoeys are
1. Group looking for a tresure
2. Had a grudge agaist the family
3. Phycho that have been realesed
4. They came in from the front then tina escaped because she heard them or they came back to the waterfall and found her there and recognized her so the murdered her
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. I 'm not sure what kind of treasure really you would be looking for, unless you're looking at it from the drugs angle, because from what I've read/heard Keddie was not a very wealthy area, so it's an odd place to choose to rob. Not to mention that the rage behind the killings seems to indicate something much more than a simple burglary.

2. This has been questioned many times, we know that Bo asked Sue out a few times, and has never officially been cleared, but that they didn't hold him and charge him for the crime. Other than that it doesn't sound like Sue had many enemies, people have made her out to be a well liked, kind person. Some have asked about her ex husband, but no one seems to have a lot of information about him, other than that he was living in another city at the time (I think maybe another state even). It didn't really indicate that he had any problems with her.

3. Definitely an angle to look at, gotta try and find what kind of criminals were around that area. I know that Valley has looked into a couple different people that committed crimes in the area around that time, but it doesn't seem to have brought about any better/more likely suspects. It's always been wondered if maybe someone could have come by on the railroad?

4. If Tina had escaped, don't you think she would have searched for some kind of help or screamed or anything? If her family was being murdered, it seems likely that she would have tried somehow to get them help, not to mention she'd be afraid they'd come after her. Plus, if there was this long portion where she was outside hiding, I think it would have been much more likely that someone would have seen something. That's just my speculation though.
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so i was reading how this was a hoax and really ive seen nothing that indicated otherwise. Everytime soemone quotes info or I see an article on it the info is different such as the victims age's and specifics about the cime scene. They say it was "so gruesome" that there were holes in the walls. Now just picture that, these people littlerally stabbing and hitting walls, not only does that make little sense (sounds like something chimps would do) but that would make a lot of noise and given the close proximity of the cabins theres no doubt if someone hit a wall with a hammer or anything with enough force to dent or put a hole in it the neighbors are gonna hear.

The only actuall accounts i seem to find describe it as extremely "gruesome" etc. but with little actual details. In contrast if you look at something similar like the Wonderland murders in LA you can get loads of info about little things like how many times the victims were struck and so on. Another tell tale sign is the lack of info on the case, you would think that the tripple murder of seemingly random innocent people would generate a serious investigation and a hell of a lot more press coverage then just local papers. In the end it stinks of fraud.
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure why it didn't get more news coverage at the time. When I asked this question earlier this week, I got the response that it was most likely because Keddie was a poorer area. Looking at it from that angle, the Wonderland murders probably got a lot of attention because they not only allegedly involved a drug dealer/businessman, but also a porn star.

Just speculation though.

As for why people would punch holes in walls, that kind of violent crime really sounds like it's born out of either extreme passion/rage or possible drug induced craze. It doesn't sound that unlikely for someone to break things out of anger, especially after they have no one left to take it out on, or maybe before to scare them.

I don't know about the sound thing. The cabins were close together, but no one really heard anything. It's been brought up a few times that maybe someone heard something and either dismissed it as unimportant or was threatened/too afraid to bring it up later?
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I guess there are fake bodies in the graves too! Shades of JFK! I saw Elvis in the mall. He was going to the new Indiana Jones film. The scene may have been exaggerated by some but watch Forensic Files or the New Detectives you may be surprised. OK, now I'm really going fishing. Unless there are more tornados.
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The brutality of the crime in question would suggest the murderer or murderers were in a heightened stage of rage and were making a point in their crime. Destruction of the cabins interior would suggest the murderers were threatening the victims prior to their deaths for information possibly. The depth of the torture and murder does not fit the typical MO for a random psychopath. Two of the victims were bound and a third strangled, which would lend me to believe the third strangled victim interrupted an interrogation and was not anticipated by the murderers. As far as the escaped girl, I would believe she would be in a great deal of shock, using her 'flight' response to evade the murderers, but eventually collapsing and becoming unconscious. I've read articles about 'bad acid' being produced in Keddie at the time and about two teenagers having a 'bad trip' and then ending it on a rampage against the occupants of Cabin 28. I suppose of all the speculation/theory I've heard about this case so far, that theory makes the most sense. The nonsensical destruction of the cabin, the brutality of the crime and the apparent effort of more than one murderer is a recipe for a core-based rage crime. Two teenage boys who might have been under the same influence of a bad dose, convinced they were somehow godly and suffering from adolescent angst just might try something as crazy as murder to see how it feels and relieve some of their tensions. But then again, a majority of brutal child/teengae murders are committed by someone who knows them. I would definately rule out the burglary theory and most burgulars do not appreciate a confrontation, even if it is with teenagers. There is not enough information out there and it almost seems like the murders are slightly obscured, but by what I'm not sure. Relatives of the victims have a dirty past? Cops, FBI and others couldn't solve the crime, so it taints their reputation? Perhaps even a cop committed the crime, mad at young people without adult supervision.
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The brutality of the crime in question would suggest the murderer or murderers were in a heightened stage of rage and were making a point in their crime. Destruction of the cabins interior would suggest the murderers were threatening the victims prior to their deaths for information possibly. The depth of the torture and murder does not fit the typical MO for a random psychopath. Two of the victims were bound and a third strangled, which would lend me to believe the third strangled victim interrupted an interrogation and was not anticipated by the murderers. As far as the escaped girl, I would believe she would be in a great deal of shock, using her 'flight' response to evade the murderers, but eventually collapsing and becoming unconscious. I've read articles about 'bad acid' being produced in Keddie at the time and about two teenagers having a 'bad trip' and then ending it on a rampage against the occupants of Cabin 28. I suppose of all the speculation/theory I've heard about this case so far, that theory makes the most sense. The nonsensical destruction of the cabin, the brutality of the crime and the apparent effort of more than one murderer is a recipe for a core-based rage crime. Two teenage boys who might have been under the same influence of a bad dose, convinced they were somehow godly and suffering from adolescent angst just might try something as crazy as murder to see how it feels and relieve some of their tensions. But then again, a majority of brutal child/teengae murders are committed by someone who knows them. I would definately rule out the burglary theory and most burgulars do not appreciate a confrontation, even if it is with teenagers. There is not enough information out there and it almost seems like the murders are slightly obscured, but by what I'm not sure. Relatives of the victims have a dirty past? Cops, FBI and others couldn't solve the crime, so it taints their reputation? Perhaps even a cop committed the crime, mad at young people without adult supervision.
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone comments on the brutality of the crime and points to rage and passion... what if the "brutality" was staged? That might explain why the neighbors say they heard nothing.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if it could not just be a sick "thrill killing". You read about it so much now. Is it not possible that this could have been one in 1981?
As for the overkill, could it be that one of the victims envoked feelings/memories in the perp(s). Someone or something from their past.
Could use the same theory for why Tina was missing. Maybe she walked in and it brought feelings of regret, so they took Tina away with them. As for her murder, if it is true that she lived for 6-9 months after the first 3 murders, could she have been trying to get away after gaining 'trust', and was killed while trying to do so?
What is/are the facts that it would be considered hours of torture? Just wondering if there were certain factors. The whole thing is absolutely horrible. what is the 'torture' part of it? And why is it believed to have taken hours? Could it not have been an hour or so if in a rage?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If robbery was not a motive, that is possible. But not overly likely.

As for the torture bit, maybe a little, but I contend this happened between 11:30pm and 1:30am, give or take.

I have made several comments, for at least two years, that the scene is hinky. It's about time ya'll are waking up to that.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wikipedia does not currently have an encyclopedia article for Hinky



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9-Vk_tj68Q

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22165383-5006301,00.html
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