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MP281




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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:05 pm    Post subject: profile of the perps Reply with quote

Operating under the assumption that the "carload of drugs" rip off happened at the Lodge on the night of the murders I would like to profile the perpetrators.

The perps were not pot growers..

If there was a trunk load of pot you are looking at least 10 pounds. Bud was going for $1,800 to $2000 a pound in the late 70s. We are talking $18,000 to $20,000 worth of pot, if not more. A grower would have sold most of their crop by April. They would have it stashed away and sold it to trusted buyers in large quantities. in safe transactions. There would be no need to take a trunk load down to the local bar and try to off it by the pound.

The perps were buyers who were either trusted by the grower or had just came into a large amount of cash for the first time.

They showed no experience in dealing and were exuberant in their new found posibility of good fortune. Foolishly they celebrated at the lodge and shared some pot with the locals (went out and burned one out side the bar) and boasted that they had plenty to sell.

The perps are related.

Only a bond of blood could bind the perps tightly enough that one did not turn on the other or others.

This was their first and only big buy.

They were local.

Anyone with any sense at all would have soberly and inconspicuously taken the pot home stashed it and distribute it in small amounts. You dont sell pounds of pot out of the trunk of a car. OZs maybe but you dont have pounds and pounds on you when you sell OZs. Their foolishness leads me to the conclussion that it was First and only time.
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Valley Flyer




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:46 am    Post subject: Well?? Reply with quote

Not bad, not bad at all. Your first statement is as I know it. City boys almost never made northbound trips. They stood out too much in a place like Quincy or Susanville. But I could tell you about a slick little method of moving product northwards. Worked for about a year or so, between Sac and Chico.

"Down to the local bar." Not unless it was a designated transfer point. Goes to the story about you know who and who? going outside the back door to discuss something. Only problem there is Marilyn says she doesn't remember Marty leaving her for that long. Oh, one other problem, it took about three years? for someone to remember that? I wonder who that was?

Josh remembered something about such a story. Now, the question seems to me to be: Who knows what, and when did they know it?

Stupid question: What was the Bureau's role in this? And did they lead, follow, or just get in the way?

Another stupid question: What about the wild card? To me, any one of these theroies could work real fine, until you bring that up.

Bottom line: we're making decent progress, albeit slowly. the roadblocks damned.
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Salem




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valley - you are right about the wild card - it still doesn't fit. Something is just not ringing true here. All this talk about drug ripoffs, but still something is missing.

Looking at MP's profile - I can see how this would fit until I get to Tina. And timing on this drug ripoff is a bit difficult to factor in.

April 11th was a Saturday night. So where were Marty and Bo on Friday night? Were they at the bar (any bar) Friday night where they could have overheard a conversation about drugs? Did they make friends with one of these "perps"?

It does not seem to me that the perp would smoke pot with a "new" friend, then leave the bar, only to find out that his car and all his drugs had been ripped off, go back in the bar, question his "new" friend and then go to one of the cabins and commit a triple homicide and a kidnapping.

And if he is outside smoking with his "new friend" why would the perp suspect the "new" friend? If they were together when the car was being rolled away? It would be the 'new" friend's best alibi - "I was outside smoking with you man- I couldn't have done that!"

If it happened a week before - I have a hard time believing the perps were still so angry it would cause them to commit such an horrific crime. Which takes us back to maybe the cabin was staged to throw off the investigators.

And again, why would they take Tina? Unless one of them was a pedofile to begin with? Taking her hostage to force Marty to give up the location of the drugs doesn't make sense - heck, if Marty was the one that id'd the cabin, then he just threw his step-son into the mix, why the heck would he care about Tina?

I would say something about - the perps couldn't have been that smart - and if they were acting in the heat of the moment they might not have thought it all out, but they have been loose for 25 years - they must have thought about some of these things............

Salem
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MP281




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the perps found their empty car at the Sharps cabin they may have taken Tina as hostage to force Dana and John to return the pot. Lets say they are sure they had stollen their pot. The find the car at their house the lights are on. They dont suspect marty as he was with them at the bar They threaten torture and kill the victims to get back their pot back. The victims know nothing about it. Tina is held outside or in the car By the time they are done inside they have lost their lust for killing and drive off with Tina. The next day Marty and bo are in a panic to get the pot which they may have hidden under the floor boards of the playhouse and to Reno to get rid of it. "Finishing up what they started"
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay - but what about "down by the river"?

Salem
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KRR




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if this “house” is somewhere Craig may have seen Tina after the murders and this has been more of his “victim codes”
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JK




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MP281...I like your prefix those are good numbers. Anyway about your theory it sounds pretty solid except the whole rolling the car to in front of the Sharps'? The bar (Keddie Back Door) was located downhill from the Sharp house...no one unless you are Superman is pushing the perps car uphill about 750 ft from the bar to the Sharp house?

Blood brothers...for sure MP281 only the blood bond of a relative could have held this in the strictest confidence for so long. I concur on that point. Local or non local? In a town as small as Quincy you feel some sort of allegiance to your fellow citizen and I just don't see how it could be a local....maybe a temporary local like the dealers that were renting the yellow house in East Quincy...but not a life long local.

Pretty good MP, pretty good....I like how your mind works!
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MP281




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point. We need to know more about the car. Cars are stollen every day. back then not many cars had ignition locks. If it is as I theorize the car if stollen was a damning piece of evidense. If it was stollen it was recovered. It's location pointed the perps to the Sharps.
All in all if the PCSD knows who these people are could they convict? Motive yes! Proof? no. No wittnesses. Are they willing to chance taking it to trial? I dont think so. I think this is why this case has been at a 25 year standstill.
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MP281




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JK you make another good point about the blood bond of brothers causing me to add to the profile that the perps were young, related and "single". Nothing like a failed relationship to undo the closest of secrets.
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JK




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, here is the JK conclusion.....young.... (like FRC age college young 18-21 range). I bet Marty and Bo being in their late 20's early 30's thought here is some naive wanna be drugsters let's gank them. Single for sure cause the info would have gotten out to a wife or girlfriend. I think they drove to Humboldt scored and were gonna be Quincys' new best friends until on the way home they stopped into Keddie for some partying. There is no way they would have left the keys in the car while they downed some cold ones knowing the goods were in the trunk.

Now the parking lot around the lodge and Keddie Back Door were all pretty lit up with street lamps so I highly doubt someone is gonna be breaking into someones trunk and taking bricks and bricks of pot under the illumination of the street lamp. In front of the Sharp house is alot darker than the area by the lodge. If I wanted to do this I would have headed down by the river where it is pitch black and no one could have seen you doing anything....there it is again "down by the river" that statement always comes full circle!

With that said, if the car was jacked and the car theives/drug theives drove up and parked it in front of the Sharps' house. They did that for a specific reason to throw off the dealers. The dealers don't know there are innocent victims in the house as they think these are the knuckle heads that jacked their car and drugs. They went in and did what they did. Tina was a crime of opportunity as someone else has already posted.
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Salem




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible - John and Dana returning home, meet up with Tina outside the house. They stay outside for a few minutes and see the car being pushed "down by the river." They "spy" on the adventure, see Marty & Bo taking drugs out of the car. Maybe they hide until Marty & Bo are done and watch them return to the bar. Maybe they think they will "go in" for a closer look. The perps come out of the bar - see that their car is missing, see the kids "sneaking" around and assume the kids had something to do with it. They confront the kids on the road - the kids say the car is down by the river and they didn't see any drugs. One perp takes Tina back to the car, the other(s) take the boys home............

Justin hears the boys saying something to the perps and understands that's where Tina was taken........
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Valley Flyer




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salem, are you a mystery writer? Or a badge? Sounds very likely. And it would answer the question of how to push a car uphill. But there might still be a little problem. Marilyn said that Marty and Bo didn't leave her alone that night while they were there. And Doug T. stated in the film, I believe, that they talked to everyone there that night. someone's covering for someone.
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JK




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salem

Wow! That is awesome....you stunned Valley and myself as that feels the most correct yet. I was at a loss for words reading your synopsis. The reason I was so floored is you know how young teenagers operate. Let me break it down. All the kids in Keddie were always snooping around in the cover of darkness....why cause all our single mom's were out getting hammered at the Keddie Back Door. Put no adult supervision together and what do you get a gang of us Keddie kids on the prowl and It wouldn't suprise me the slightest bit if John, Dana, Justin, and Tina all witnessed strange happenings "down by the river"...dark as hell down there and a nice little road that leads to a big clearing. Perps encounter the kids in the darkness outside and that is the intital contact. No suprise attack in the house...outstanding Salem...you got my head spinning now.
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Salem




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which takes me back to Oakland Camp. Who was at that party? I know many people that were there that were also questioned by the PCSO. But if we go back to Oakland Camp - then someone had to follow the boys home. I don't think that happened because there are too many eye witness accounts of the boys after they left that party up to the point where they used the telephone at the gas station on Lawrence and Highway 70. Just too much time passed for someone to be following them. Unless who ever was following them was extremely patient.

No....for now I'm sticking with something happening at Keddie. Maybe it wasn't Marty and Bo? There were a lot of people in Keddie that night for various reasons. Others that were immediately picked up and questioned and then released. That takes us back to one of your favorites, Valley, the Walke guy.

Did Walke do drugs? Was he into dealing? Did he think this was his big chance? Did something go horribly wrong?

Salem
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sassy




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JK
I am not sure what you are talking about, I sure in the hope you are not saying that my mom was at the bar all the time...she didn't even drink. so people get that out of your head now. Back then we did stay out late, kids felt safe to go out at night, not like now.

Have you seen the video yet? If you listen to Marilyn, she even states that my mom did not drink.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sassy,

I never implied your mom specifically.... all I made was a generalization about the dozen or so plus single mothers in Keddie at the time and a good majority of them partied all the time at the "Keddie Back Door" So, for the record everyone with the exception of Sassys' mom that is. Generally speaking single mom's were working or going to college and that left alot of idol time on the hands of us kids would you agree Sassy? It was a lot safer time but without the supervision us little hellions were all over the place up on the railroad tracks, in abandoned gold mines, walking along HWY 70 collecting cans, starting fires behing the bus stop, throwing rocks at passing train cars and a million other dangerous and petty criminal activities that our mom's had NO clue we were doing cause they weren't there.
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craig




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LITTLE HOODLUMS
LOL
MAN JK YOU GOT THAT RIGHT
OK I WAS A LITTLE HOODLUM TOO
EVEN THO I WAS 19 AT THE TIME UP THERE
I WAS ONLY A FEW YEARS OLDER THAN YOU
GUYS BUT YEAH I CAN SEE HOW THAT COULD BE
THAT WAY AS WHEN I WAS YOUR AGE WE DID ALL
KINDS OF THINGS LIKE TERRORIZE THE AREA WE
LIVED IN, PLAYED GAMES, BASKETBALL, FOOTBALL
AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS..ALL THE NEIGHBORHOOD
KIDS...I REMEMBER THAT STUFF...10-14YRS OLD

LET ME SEE..HIDE N SEEK, TAG YOUR IT AND
OTHER GAMES WITH ALL THE KEDDIE KIDS I
BET AND YOU KEDDIE KIDS PROBABLY DID ALOT OF THINGS
TOGETHER SINCE IT WAS SO LOOSE THERE..EXCEPT
SHELIA MOM WHO DID NOT DRINK..OK SHELIA I AM
NOT SAYING ANYTHING BAD HERE.

I BET YOU HAVE ALOT OF GOOD MEMORIES OF ALL THE
THINGS YOU KEDDIE KIDS DID TOGETHER HUH JK AND
SHELIA.
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JK




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tell it straight up Craig....we all were little monsters back then...face it Quincy/Keddie was boring we all got into mischief just to pass the time. Hide and seek, tag all that stuff it was fun. That's why the kids know every inch of Keddie. We would all meet up after dark in front of the Post Office trailer that was in Keddie and play all sorts of games until way late at night.
Good times...real good times man. Puts a smile on my face to think about all the fun we had together.
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craig




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ha ha little monsters
indeed
lol
yeah i think that when you said that jk
it brought back memories of what we did in
pasadena, ca and the haunted house thing
was just one of them..dare or be chicken
was that game.

yeah those were the days i tell you
thanks for letting me remember things
like that as when you get as old and ugly
as i am well you forget things like that.
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Salem




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:23 pm    Post subject: Keddie RR Reply with quote

Quote:
What if this “house” is somewhere Craig may have seen Tina after the murders and this has been more of his “victim codes”


Keddie - this is an interesting statement. What makes you say it?

To date we have absolutely nothing that ties Marty and Bo to the yellow house. We don't even know if they had friends/acquaintences in East Quincy, except for Dee. Did Dee even have a house at that time?

Salem
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Salem




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay - something is bugging me here.....

The perps are young, first time 'players', probably single and believe they are out to make a substantial amount of cash. Then all of a sudden, they have no "crop." They are pissed and they are out to find out what happened.

This is what bugs me - young, single, first time out and they end up committing a triple homicide and kidnapping with young children in the room next door? Does that make sense? And the kidnapping - what the heck were they thinking? They now have no drugs, no money, serious blood on their hands and they kidnap a young girl. They must have thought they could run pretty far, pretty fast to compromise their escape with the added burden of having to hide the child.

Okay - they were on drugs/alcohol themselves...puts them at greater risk of getting pulled over when they leave the scene, but if they are still high enough they probably don't care.

Maybe they knew how many deputies were on duty that night and figured they didn't need to be worried about it. But if they knew that, then they must have known that there were law enforcement types at the birthday party at the lodge.....

If this was their first time out - don't you think they would have made a few mistakes that would have landed their butts in prison well before now?


Okay - don't get me wrong here, I actually like this profile and I think it fits, but that is more of a gut feeling then a well reasoned one. I'm having a hard time understanding how these perps could so completely lose it - I think there must be another element here that we are missing.

Maybe we go back to the scene being staged. Cop shows in the 70's-80's were not as sophisticated as they are now - so the perps had to have some kind of knowledge about staging scenes and cleaning up after themselves. That means now that we have a profile - we need a background that matches.

Salem

PS - one other point - the secret may have stayed a secret because one of the perps died early on and is was no longer around to tell on the other one.
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craig




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SALEM

I HAVE SAID THERE ARE MANY HOLES TO MP'S THEORY
AND STATED THAT AND THERE ARE ALOT OF THINGS
THAT MAKES SENSE TOO SO WHERE DOES THIS LEAVE US?

THE YELLOW HOUSE IS A FACTOR BECAUSE OF BOTH RICHARD
AND MYSELF SAYING DRUGS WERE RIPPED OFF THERE AND
ALSO THAT THE RIPOFF I DESCRIBE AND HAPPENED WAS WITH
JOHN JOHN AND DANA WHO WERE MURDERED 5 DAYS LATER...
APRIL 6TH WAS IST RIPOFF OF YELLOW HOUSE AND THE MURDERS
HAPPEN ON APRIL 11TH.

IF IT WAS JUST ME SAYING THAT IST RIPOFF HAPPEN THEN YOU MIGHT
DOUBT MY WORD AND SOME DO BUT RICHARD SAID A 2ND RIPOFF
HAPPEN WAY AFTER THE MURDERS SO THIS SORTA OF CONNECTS
THE FACTS DRUGS WERE IN THAT YELLOW HOUSE AT ONE TIME
ALREADY AND WHY NOT SOONER THAT DRUGS WERE IN THAT SAME
YELLOW HOUSE THAN THE RIPOFF RICHARD DESCRIBES... IN
6 MONTHS EARLIER THAN HIS DESCRIPTION OF THE 2ND DRUG
RIPOFF OF THE YELLOW HOUSE WAY AFTER THE MURDERS.

THE DIFFERENCE IN MP'S THEORY AND THE IST DRUG RIP OFF
TIMELINE IS REALLY SWITCHING THE TWO RIPOFFS AROUND
IN MP'S- THE YELLOW HOUSE RIPOFF COMING IST (APRIL 6TH)
AND THEN THE CAR LOAD THE NIGHT OF THE MURDERS (APRIL
11TH)..THE ORIGINAL DRUG RIPOFF TIMELINE IS THE CAR LOAD
OF DRUGS WAS RIPPED OFF FIRST AT A UNKNOWN TIME AND DATE
AND THEN THE YELLOW HOUSE DRUG RIPOFF HAPPEN ON APRIL 6TH.

BOTH HAVE GOOD REASONS TO BELIEVE THEM AND BOTH HAVE
HOLES THAT MAKE IT NOT SO EASY TO BELIEVE AND NEEDS TO
BE EXPLAINED.

SO AGAIN WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE US...JUST ONE YELLOW
HOUSE THAT FITS IT ALL AND STILL AN UNDETERMINED TIMELINE
OF EVENTS.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salem wrote:
Which takes me back to Oakland Camp. Who was at that party? I know many people that were there that were also questioned by the PCSO. But if we go back to Oakland Camp - then someone had to follow the boys home. I don't think that happened because there are too many eye witness accounts of the boys after they left that party up to the point where they used the telephone at the gas station on Lawrence and Highway 70. Just too much time passed for someone to be following them. Unless who ever was following them was extremely patient.

No....for now I'm sticking with something happening at Keddie. Maybe it wasn't Marty and Bo? There were a lot of people in Keddie that night for various reasons. Others that were immediately picked up and questioned and then released. That takes us back to one of your favorites, Valley, the Walke guy.

Did Walke do drugs? Was he into dealing? Did he think this was his big chance? Did something go horribly wrong?

Salem


Except there was no party at Oakland Camp. This is simply not true. The party was on Lee Road near the mill.
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MP281




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig I have to thank you. If I hadn't read all your post over this last year and learned that your main agenda was to put yourself square in the middle of this case I wouldn't have come up with something that starts to make sense. I discounted everything you offered up and put it all out of my mind and looked at some real facts.. Take your yellow house and stick it where the sun dont shine. Your fifteen minutes of fame isn't here. Go look somewhere else for it.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Purpose of the profile is to type or identify the perpertrators. I like being wrong if the results come out right. That's what its all about. Feel free to challenge or add to the profile. This is not about me. Its about solving this case. So dive in!
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