The Killers did NOT Run Out of Tape

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

The Killers did NOT Run Out of Tape

Postby dmac » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:48 pm

I was just going through the morgue photos, trying to keep my mind on the case while mulling over another angle, when I was slapped in the face by information in a photo we've had access to for years. It was, I believe, first posted by Josh around '10-'11, and shows blood on the soles of Sue's feet, as well as the ankle bindings.

It's staring us in the face: The wire was pure postmortem staging, as I'd theorized long ago.

By the time Sue was bound with wire, she had already walked through major blood stains where her family and Dana had bled out and, presumably (based on the amount of blood), lay mortally wounded or dead. There's no way she could have walked when when her legs and hands were hobbled together with wire. Physically impossible, right?

It's also IMPOSSIBLE when your ankles are bound together with TAPE!

Sue_ankle_tape.fgx.jpg

Sue's ankles were taped together, part of the STAGING, very late in the game. AFTER she walked through bleed-out. BEFORE Dana's head was bludgeoned (there's little blood on the tape, other than spatter which had to come from Dana, as did all the other spatter on Sue's bare skin, and the wall adjacent to the boys' room).

The killers never ran out of tape, and the wire was, as theorized, 100% postmortem staging.
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Re: The Killers did NOT Run Out of Tape

Postby Sheepish » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:06 am

Have you viewed the original photo, Dmac? Just curious in regards to the small blood spray/splatter on her ankle that clearly hit the tape and would have hit the wire had the wire been there. Were there any signs at all that any blood spray hit the wire? Any notes that mentioned if there was blood spray under the wire when it was removed? I understand it would be hard to see with the blood on a black surface in a tiny dot on a photograph, but if the original was clear enough it could cement the theory that the tape and wire were not applied at the same time.
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Re: The Killers did NOT Run Out of Tape

Postby dmac » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:56 am

I've got a scan of the original ORIGINAL photo (the 1981 print, which is age-damaged, discolored, etc.) I scanned it at a very high resolution and used Photoshop to layer it and clean it up, as well as fix contrast issues. I've also seen the reprint in the Keddie room, but when in that room, I didn't much focus on photos I'd already seen. I had limited time so, as you may imagine, delved into shots I was unfamiliar with. Besides, I wouldn't have noticed the tape back in May, anyway- We've had that shot for 5-6 years and the significance of the tape didn't reach out and punch me in the face until yesterday.

I can say I've been working on many things recently, and looking at this particular photo is related to Photoshop work I'd done several years ago, where I took a photo of a chunk of wall taken from the LR wall with that has the majority of spatter and visible knife marks, and meticulously reshaped it to fit a photo of the LR where that chunk is missing. The result is a very accurate image of where the blood spatter originated (Dana's wound), as well as how high each knife mark was. I will eventually post the results of that work, when complete, but it will take time for me to revisit other materials, as well as accurately measure heights in the room. I have all the measurements and dimensions of the chunk, the height of the room, etc., so it's down to getting a proper height of each mark.

The hardest part will be finding how far lateral each blood globule is from perpendicular to Dana's head. I can already say Dana's W4 wounds are the only ones at the scene that can cause that type of spatter. Also, the deteriorated quality of the blood- dark and thick- corresponds to postmortem spatter which, again, ties it to Dana. This was not fresh blood, not bright red or even remotely oxygenated. Look at the aortic spray that came from Johnny's fatal neck wound, found under Dana's legs when the crime scene was worked- bright red. Even the layers of blood under the cushion Dana's corpse was placed on are considerably brighter than the separated blood that came from Dana's crushed head.

Considering the known hammer wounds to vix found on-scene (ie not Tina), none of the wounds- other than Dana's W4 wounds- could be responsible for the huge spray on the footlockerchair wall (the LR wall in common with the boys' room).

Back to the morgue shots of Sue, in particular the lower body shot from which the ankle crop is taken. The entire photo shows blood spatter from Dana's postmortem headshots all over Sue's exposed skin, all pointing to Sue being in her original position, before being rolled on her side and covered, and the point of origin being where Dana was actually found. There is also blood spatter on her terrycloth gown, but only in areas that would have faced Dana's head. It's pretty convincing.

As for the tape, compare it to all other shots of tape used to bind the vix. Both Johnny's and Dana's ankle tape are pretty damned clean, but they would be whether they were bound almost immediately or at the staging period. Looking again at Dana's broken wrist tape, it's pretty clean, with some very tiny BRIGHT RED spatter on the outside surface. The underside of the tape clearly shows old, dark blood, indicating this wrist binding may also be a fake. But as for Sue's bound ankles? Again, how can she walk through her family's blood if her ankles are tightly and unevenly (both feet not flat together) bound? This tape was DEFINITELY applied AFTER she walked through the blood, making it VERY LATE in the murders and just prior to her own murder- or just after. Either way, it's as much staging as the wire that followed.

At this moment, with all the revelations from the past 24 hours, I can only 100% attribute the wrist bindings on Sue and Johnny as originating prior to the massive bloodletting. I don't have Photoshop on this laptop, so I'll try to get some images cropped, cleaned up, and put together tonight to compare all the tape bindings, side by side. If I can get it done, this may displace many other topics in Sunday's chat.

Sheepish, did you have another possible scenario in mind?
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Re: The Killers did NOT Run Out of Tape

Postby dmac » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:13 pm

Here's a series of photos showing the level of blood on each tape binding. I'll begin with Johnny and end with Sue.

JOHNNY: I have few photos of Johnny's ankle bindings to prove, either way, how bloody they were. Suffice to say NOBODY could navigate well on foot after being bound, and it goes without saying that the foot bindings on ANY victim would not have the same level of blood as the wrists. With hands bound, there's still the ability to defend with ones' arms to some degree, as well as the wrist bindings are far more likely to get spatter from nearby wounds (the bludgeoning and stabbing was subjected solely to the upper torsos and heads of vix). So, dispensing with the obvious arguments, lets ignore Johnny's ankle bindings other than to say they were pristine compared to his wrists.

04.jpg
810413_043_Johnny.jpg


DANA: The tape bindings on both Dana's feet and hands were broken when the crime scene was discovered. His feet bindings, again, were pristine based on the poor images at our disposal.

810413_dana-feet.jpg

If you look at the CS photos, or recall them, Dana had been rolled over hour(s) after death and placed face-down with his head on the corner of the cushion, and he was found with his left arm splayed out and his right arm tucked under his torso. In CS photos, his right hand is not visible, but about two inches of the tape wrapped around his right wrist juts out from under his red ski sweater.

Looking closely at the tape on his wrist, there is plenty of blood- nowhere near the level seen on Johnny, but that's to be expected as Dana did not suffer the trauma while alive and able to somewhat defend himself as either Sue of Johnny did. Look closely at the sticky side of the tape nearest the underside of his right thumb-palm area. There is clearly dark, dried blood on the sticky side of that tape. One must consider, before arguing either way, that this is a morgue shot and he'd been moved in and out of body bags, moved to the mortuary for IDing. and then to Sacramento. It's very possible that portion of tape was pristine before he was moved so much. Unfortunately, I don't currently have access to morgue shots showing what his wrists looked like with the tape removed- whether there was a definitive clean area, showing that tape was there before bloodshed. The bright red droplets / spatter visible on the tape tells me the tape was in place on his wrists for the duration.

810413_dana-hand.jpg


SUE: She suffered the majority of abuse, both while alive and postmortem. Here's a couple shots of her wrists. The first is a black and white shot showing her as found. You can see on both the tape on her left wrist and her bare skin large globules of very thick, dark, oxygen-starved dead blood that spattered her body and the walls when Dana's head was crushed with W4.

019.jpg

Here's a morgue shot of one of her left wrist after the tape was removed. The tape was so tight it stopped bruises from forming from when she was defending herself with her bound hands/arms from a bludgeon attack.

morgue_Sue_6-7_torso.jpg

Now, two shots back to back. In the first, you can see how Sue was free to walk through the bleed-out spots on the carpet. She put enough pressure on both feet to cover the soles and balls and toes of her feet, and enough pressure for the pools of blood to squish up between her toes. She left several bloody footprints next to the pools near where Johnny was eventually placed.

The second shot is a close-up of the tape and wire binding. Tape first, clearly AFTER she was walking through her family's bleed-out spots on the carpet. You can clearly see another globule of Dana's blood on the tape from his W4 wounds.

morgue_Sue_24_6-7_legs.jpg
morgue_Sue_24_6-7_legs_tape.jpg


CONCLUSION The binding with tape was used to constrain the victims at or near the very beginning of the crimes. They had enough tape with them that the tape was also used in the staging process, before they trussed Sue with wire and tied the boys' ankles together with an extension cord.
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Re: The Killers did NOT Run Out of Tape

Postby dntblvu » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:56 pm

It looks kind of like sue's wrist joint is swollen, sprained or broken. Poor sue. I hope it was over fast, otherwise I'd hope she didn't feel or know much, from shock.
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Re: The Killers did NOT Run Out of Tape

Postby Marius_Eponine » Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:16 pm

I hope Sue was at least unconscious for some of the last bit. The things that were done to her and the kids were all unfathomable but the level of cruelty they showed her.. I've rarely seen that level of violence directed at one single person for so long
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