Hunches

[dmac]

I was out recently with my aunt and uncle, and the case came up. Then 'hunches' came up, Do they exist?

Do they?!

Yeah, I think so.

No, not with me. Or do they?

Look at my earliest big THEORY post. I speak on how it's a collection of facts and LIES, and a logical resolution by evaluating patterns and connections.

This case fell into my lap as much as anything. I was trying to get the case more exposure, better resources, and Josh Hancock chose to use me to help him make blood money. By doing so, he exposed his felonious fraud to the world. In the end, some say I used him, but that's a lie. I collected as many stolen documents directly from him as I could, then outed him and shut his site down. Evil dmac.

Anyway, it fell into my lap as a result of my vague, odd, offshoot interest in proving where 28 was, where Keddie was, where Keddie is, the layout of Keddie and 28. I was looking for the base facts everyone else was overlooking: WHERE it happened. This led DIRECTLY to WHEN and HOW, way down the road. Well, just 147 feet, as it turned out.

For me, at least, as it was the only way I could conceptualize everything properly. Where would I be if I hadn't figured out the knife marks on th main wall were higher than the victims, for instance?

What I've been saying, over the years, is often my spec, but it's proving true to a disturbing degree. Why? Because I pored over what shit-poor documents we have, ORIGINAL research done by myself and many others here, and talk, jive, bullshit, and theories/avenues suggested. Maybe my filter works good? I dunno. All I know is I saw patterns in documents suggesting intentional withholding/lies by reporting officers. STOY, bitch. I saw patterns in lies by killers in falsified documents.

Patterns lead to hunches?

In 2006, I discovered Google Earth had old photos of Keddie, then I discovered the "back bridge" existed, now known as the swinging bridge. People were asking "How did they take Tina out of Keddie?", and all on Wolf's Red Board were flabbergasted another easy way out existed. Loon and Mama Meeks, both participants on that forum, didn't seem to have fuck-all to say on that major topic.

I gave up on that forum and the case for the same reason I killed Josh's site: I felt Wolf was a sick fuck. Hunch? Yep, but he turns out to be a child molester and felon. Josh is certainly an unconvicted felon of MASSIVE proportions. I left Wolf's forum because I saw he intentionally let vile assholes and trolls run things. CRAIG. That was no hunch.

When I got into mapping Keddie, I realized how 28 was right in the middle. Not out in BFE, but just between the bar and the killer's cabin. Exact midpoint on a 100 yard jaunt. Then I went apeshit drawing exteriors of each side off the house, and went overboard designing an exact layout of 28. I figured out so much from those few photos. The only phone line went in at the back wall of the Girl's room, for instance. Beside Tina's bed.

I pored over photos to draw a proportionate design of the house, and where objects and bodies were on April 12 at 730. When, in 2011, I walked in the footprint of where 28's foundation had been, I knew I was within inches. When I saw documents relating to the layout of 28, I was 2" off. I'm not patting myself on the back, other than to say I take detail very seriously. That's what makes my filter work.

I saw patterns in the lies, and properly deduced the obvious, outstanding ones. Then I went after the offshoot lies that clang to the Whoppers. That proved patterns. Around that time, I came up with the idea there exists a universal, blanket alibi the killers and key conspirators poorly drew and used. Loonibi. Many thought it preposterous, le all it showed me was more truths, lies, patterns.

More patterns show themselves once others are established, even from the piss-poor info we had then and have now. I was working FURIOUSLY to establish Bo's mafia shit, which led directly to Hy Larner, which is a reach-around jerk-off to the CIA pushing dope into America via the DOJ. STILL no clue if Crimely, the DOJ mafia cunts, had a clew about who Bo was, but it was research, not hunches, that found those bridges. Bridges play a massive role in this case. That's the title of my book.

BRIDGES

As key trusses of my 'theory' are proved true, I wonder where 'hunches' are. Even back in 06, I felt the Back Bridge played a key role. Hunch? Yes and no. Silence from a couple (now key) people lodged in my gullet. Thankfully.

Patterns of truth, patterns of speech, repetition of clear lines of shit. The way Loon ALWAYS repeated the bullshit about Sue doing something by the couch told me it was more horseshit from a murderer.

It's a matter of looking at the Whole and seeing the lies. As with Phillip's journey from the church to the EQ liquor store, it's a matter of seeing it for years without SEEING IT. The implications are huge, bringing members of his nearest family to POI status.

The saying is, "you just can't make this shit up". Hagwood and Gamberg have varying versions of "Every time you think this case can't get more fucked up, it does". By that, they mean those billions of coincidences aren't. The implicaions are vetted, proved true, and the case expands like hot gas. A huge fart. Everything we laughed at as impossible has proved true. So little have proved wrong.

Hell, early on, I thought the screams at 115 were a false alarm, that it was impossible. I believed the killers entered when BM left at Last Call. That's how thick I was. In fact, those screams prove premed, tape, restraints, bloodshed, murder, and Loon as KEY PARTICIPANT before Bo and Marty ran back to the bar.

Hunches? I dunno. Do you see many? I see many people as POIs, I know they're lying, I know they know key info, I know they KNOW. That's not a hunch. I see a lot of patterns leading to Kathy's murder. Not directly connected, but PATTERNS.

Shit, Lyn Mollath was an utterly perfect, gorgeous girl. Stunningly beautiful. The patterns I found when researching her family, which I've shared online and more offline, leads to several people wondering if it was a hit, with Bo (recently bumped from a nearby prison) as a killer. PCSO saw similarities in 81, when Gary was (and remains) a suspect/POI. Gamberg showed me the CS photos and we agree it's fucking odd, with all the complicated, political, powerful family history, that the case 'disappeared' immediately. I don't see too much commonality in the crimes or ensuing staging. Jan was DEFINITELY staged, but Jan's crime staging makes Keddie look like what it is: a moronic fuckfest. By multiple assholes.

I also believe the Jan crime scene was less complicated, and easier to understand initially. When looking more closely at Keddie, you see the complicated overlaying patterns of lies and facts just as you see overlying bloodstains in the Keddie photos. But, hell, anyone reading the TRUE transcripts of Marty's and Bo's 'interviews' knows they convicted themselves on Day Three. The day they talked to Crimely.

Connections, patterns. They lead to gut feelings that certain avenues need attention. Are those 'gut feelings' hunches? That's about as close as I can come to saying "YES!"

Shit, three of us knew, behind the scenes and without telling each other, that if we ever found Tony the Greek, he would look exactly like Avery Schreiber, proving my calling out Mike and Martell's 'reverse alibi' to be true,

That was a true hunch. No, we three understood everyone was protecting the ID of The Greek, so even that 'hunch' was really a logical deduction.

I'm often wrong, but call it out LOUDLY. More than anything, I'm unfortunately correct. Well, Tina didn't go through all the shit many have imagined for which they have nightmares. My being right about Keddie still makes it a very complex case. Occam's Razor only works in small doses here: Who made this cut? Who took Tina? Did Phillip go to Keddie? Yada yada.

Define 'hunch'.

[Ausgirl]

My biggest hunches on this case were always:

Bo was protected by LE.
Tony the Greek was somehow important.
Wade was involved, in some manner at least.
Philip was not 100% full of shite.
The motive had nothing to do with Bo asking Sue out, nor was it sexual, ie, rape.

Some others, less emphatic:

Something was very off about Spang's presence/story.
So much bullshit about the boys' movements that night, from all quarters.. was there a buzz about something happening?

Hotly contested but still a hunch:

Sue wasn't the target, though she appears to be the primary victim. Nor was Tina.

edit: as I think I've said before, "hunch* to me is 2 + 2 adding up to 5 given the available info, but I can't yet explain exactly why.

[justice17]

I've often wondered about "Jim", Mama Meeks ex. He is in town for what reason? He is there Just long enough to have a couple of woodcutting dates with Marde? Admits to being in Keddie the morning of discovery. Jim is also there just long enough to "protect" the entire Meeks Family. Perfect timing for such a short visit.

Poof he's gone....

[dmac]

According to Nina, Jim was supposed to meet Marty at the Meeks home, something like 5 or 6 am, to go cut wood that Marty had no use for. According to Nina, Jim saw Marty burning shoes. According to Nina, Jim didn't see this. According to Nina, she couldn't get Marty to stay the night at her house. According to Nina, Jim then sat watch with a shotgun to keep them safe from Marty.

When Loon and Nina were active on Jesse's porn forum, their relationship seemed to ebb and flow. Well, flow then ebb.For a while, they worked together and agreed. Something broke in their relationship again, and they became divisive and argumentative.

Loon was busy framing Marty and Bo while removing herself. Then she retracted, and suddenly all of her posts were wrong: MARTY IS INNOCENT.

As for Jim, I think Nina used him as a prop in her stories. She, too, was inventing shit that never happened. Why does the story about Jim going out to Keddie smell like a pile of burning shoes and shit? Because that's just what it is. Again, why drive out there when a phone call suffices? Her story also conflicts with her other stories about when/how she found out about the murders. Bottom line: Marty didn't need the wood, nd zero chance he would have met ANYONE at that hour to WORK.

[Ausgirl]

Wait though.. didn't 26 have a wood stove? Both Marty and Loon talked about it.

Or am I having brain fart.

[dmac]

No, I concede your point. Loon has said a million times she saw Marty burning something at 2 am in the wood stove, when they were all at 28 committing murder. Marty said Justin was so quiet he could go past him while he was stoking the fire.

I just looked at the aerial shots, and there is a stovepipe near the center south wall of the living room, right next to the bathroom door.

What's funny is, when I was in 26, I saw no vent in the ceiling- like you do in the 28 shots. In 28, the stove would have been where the couch is, about where the missing cushion would be.

Nonetheless, I see no reason to believe Marty would be up at that hour, unless he was committing murder. So many more holes in that story to plug.

[budrfligh]

Hunches, gut feelings and deductions are good if we can put old fashioned detective work to them, as you outlined above Dmac. My gut is only as good as where it leads me.... We know something hinkey is at play with the Meeks and Wade in particulars alibi. Often I can't put my finger on it but it most often has later been identified by someone in forum later. That is why I unabashedly toss them out to see if they stick.

[meankitty]

............
When Loon and Nina were active on Jesse's porn forum, their relationship seemed to ebb and flow. Well, flow then ebb.For a while, they worked together and agreed. Something broke in their relationship again, and they became divisive and argumentative.

Loon was busy framing Marty and Bo while removing herself. Then she retracted, and suddenly all of her posts were wrong: MARTY IS INNOCENT.
...............

I know what broke. Marilyn changed her mind and got the revelation, then backpedaled from what she told Nina.

[dmac]

I don't believe Loon 'changed her mind' after decades of taking the spotlight off herself by focusing it on her co-killers. Back then, to my knowledge, one guy and one guy only was threatening people. He scared Josh into changing his 'movies' and how he presented his websites. He threatened many people, including me, but I told him to go fuck his dead mommy.

I believe he contacted Loon and threatened her with the same moronic crap he spewed at the rest, but Loon is stupid enough to buy into it- like Josh was and is. You know who this scumbag is:

Spencer K Smartt, the killer's brother.

[meankitty]

This has come up before, but I don't think he was responsible for the "revelation". Marilyn changed her mind in June of 2006, and Spencer joined the forum in October of 2006. There's no way he would lurk for 4 months with people talking about his brother before finally joining and saying something.

[leenie963]

Hunches, gut feelings and deductions are good if we can put old fashioned detective work to them, as you outlined above Dmac. My gut is only as good as where it leads me.... We know something hinkey is at play with the Meeks and Wade in particulars alibi. Often I can't put my finger on it but it most often has later been identified by someone in forum later. That is why I unabashedly toss them out to see if they stick.

It's like that saying "trust your first impression" upon meeting someone. It's that 'something'...that unexplainable gut reaction that has to prove itself in time. Just a feeling..an instinct. I think the older we get the stronger it is. That's all good at a party, or when your dog growls at someone that turns out to be a total asshole. How did my dog know it then? It's just a hunch. lol

But with this case, a hunch will never be good enough. Have to have something tangible to connect to that hunch. That makes it believable, pursuable and hopefully another nail in the coffins of those who committed these murders.

Back to following another breadcrumb trail...

[Ausgirl]

I've often wondered about "Jim", Mama Meeks ex. He is in town for what reason? He is there Just long enough to have a couple of woodcutting dates with Marde? Admits to being in Keddie the morning of discovery. Jim is also there just long enough to "protect" the entire Meeks Family. Perfect timing for such a short visit.

Poof he's gone....

Yep, I've eyeballed that for a long time. So much intense activity regarding 'woodcutting' that morning, go figure.

I have a theory about hunches, speaking strictly for myself -- I believe it's the subconscious, which is actually capable of processing a crapton more raw information (On the case, and on human behaviour, whatever) than my conscious mind, tapping me hard on the top of my head, "Ya missed something back there, dufus! This shit don't add up!" Ie, it's not mere suspicion or guesswork that gets me obsessing on some of these details, it's something stronger than that, and a different feeling entirely.. it's a recognition of shit not adding up, but I can't consciously recall the minutiae of exactly why.

[budrfligh]

Collecting wood was self survival. Making up a husband nobody can identify quite another. Who is Mr James Meeks oter than a pretend witness to the "Tunabi"?

[dmac]

The kmix twinz started a thread on James. He's one of many things I've found little cause to spend much time on, as nothing indicates he's anything but a puppet presence. By that, I mean he's a tertiary shadow figure, the likelihood of him being found- or finding his firsthand accounts- are ZERO. All he is is a puppet figure that Nina, Richard, any of them can come up with stories on what he saw, what he did, etc. What we already know is Mama has puppeteered him many different ways over the years. As usual, her tales change according to whatever point she seems needs to be made at any given time.

The Meeks and James all have roots in Phoenix and further north in the Cottonwood area. In the 70s, Cottonwood was the old highway and a cockroach-conquered diner. But that whole region of Northern AZ has also been long stylized as a drug corridor. Nearby Sedona is, and has been for decades, a ritzy, kitschy Hollywood hippy-dippy-trippy money bomb, but in the 70s, Sedona was far less Hwood and far more cowboy/hippy. Cottonwood, Jerome, Sedona, Flagstaff was a pretty damned sleepy but BIG drug corridor.

It is simply coincidence that these are mentioned as drug corridors. The idea that any of these folks are in common territory always in drug corridors is simply outlandish. Fuck me for knowing you already see a complete lack of connective tissue or bias.

My own research also shows Loon has roots in the area that have nothing to do with Marty's Phoenix home. Let's put it this way: Phoenix and Cottonwood are the two AZ towns that keep popping up in the histories of major players. Just as, it seems, anybody remotely involved in the murders seems to have lived in Klamath Falls at one time or another.

Phoenix is where the Smartts landed in the 50s. This was well after Marty nearly died when he 'fell' from his bunk bed as a toddler. Yes, landed on his head, yes fractured his skull, yes nearly died. Yes, his mother always blamed Spencer, claiming he kicked him off the bunk. To be honest, I'd bet mom was right. Spencer is one bat-shit crazy homicidal psycho. Anyone familiar with his threats (err, 'posts') on old forums can attest to this.

The addresses I found on Marty and the Meeks in Phoenix have them living 1/2 a block from each other- but six miles apart. Literally take this road from Marty's rental 6 miles west, jog over half a block, and that's where the Meeks lived. Nutty stuff like this happens all the time.

As you may know, Richard Meeks had a chat with me for several hours a few years ago, and he wanted to do it again- he reached out to me via FB, but I was busy moving at the time. Since then, Sheila- or something just as similarly fucked up- has poisoned all the Meeks and cousins of the Sharps against me. Their suddenly-inflammatory remarks towards me are simply priceless. The funniest and most common root of all evil I'm supposedly guilty of is poking my nose in their murders. This case belongs to them and only them.

Seriously, they claim mass murder is personal and they should have 100% control over it. Exactly how does that work?

Oh, yeah: Like it has for 35 years: LIES FROM ALL SIDES. Sharps lying. Smartts lying. Meeks lying. PCSO lying about a case that would devastate PCSO. CA-DOJ killing a prosecutable case that would be devastating to the DOJ.

FUCK THE LOT OF YOU.

Anyway, as you can see, it's damned easy to go off on small tangents and get lost. With James Meeks, all I see is us confusing the Meeks' pisspoor puppeteering of what James saw and did with him having any true significance in this case. Without documents and statements attributed directly to him, the only thing we know is what we've been told about him is already clearly a ruse. All of zero comes directly from James. What more do we need to know about this apparition? All we can currently do is vet the bullshit accounts the Meeks apply to him, and/or anyone else.

AUS- I'll try to answer your PM here. I believe it's appropriate to do so, as many of your points are salient and worth discussion, even if in the SPEC section.

I agree Marty was in dire need of money, which is why he'd gone to the VA- to get PTSD benefits. I don't know how tight Marty and Bo were before March 81, but there is plenty to suggest they knew each other, at least through family or carny. Look at how the therapist went thru Marty's sessions: First and foremost was PTSD. When that was IMMEDIATELY shot down (within a week!), Marty used the sessions to talk about the marriage. The therapist always states Marty was talking or not. Only he would interject with Qs. No Loon. No Bo.

Crimely lied about the upcoming confession, they filed patently false reports of how the therapist mistook Marilyn's comments during Marty's sessions as a confused confession that Marty had himself made. The therapist always said he only dealt with Marty, nobody else was there. Loon said she never visited Marty at the VA. Then she told us she never went to any of Marty's VA therapy gigs, but she went once to the VA and met Marty hanging with Bo.

Figure out why she lied about meeting Bo at the VA. Even a couple years back, that lynchpin in the Loonibi is something she's forever tied to.

Then the murders happened and, within a couple weeks, Marty was talking more about that. Then the confession, then the Goodbye visit- "I'm off to join the circus!"

Since Bo was never treated at the Reno VA, and Loon never went to any of Marty's sessions, there had to be an impetus to put Marty and Bo together. Both scumbags doing the carny shit, and Dee always so proud of how Marty could connive and convince... Marty had already been shot down for PTSD, but that has no bearing on putting him together with Bo. Any PTSD claim would take MONTHS to clear, even if completely valid the VA would at first routinely deny. That's VA SOP. So put aside the PTSD shit and look solely at Marty reaching out to Bo while in Reno.

Reach out? WTF was he doing checking himself in for a couple weeks? That would severely limit his ability to reach out. Certainly, phone access would have been severely limited. But look at it as a necessary evil: to sell the PTSD argument, he needed to go overboard and feign suicide or whatever in order to check himself in if he wanted a shot to sell the PTSD gimmick.

See, even Reno is convoluted, but kinda makes sense once you unravel the bullshit. The takeaway, for me, it Marty had to be unemployed in order to have time to check in to the VA. He only stayed a couple weeks, and came back to Keddie at the tail end of March. The PTSD ruse was Part A of Reno, and picking up Bo was Part B. PTSD benefits was the long-term goal (A), and scams pulled with Bo were the short term survival (B).

I don't see anyone paying Marty and Bo and Loon for what they did inside 28. Not directly, as a hit. I see no recompense for these actions, other than flat cold revenge. That kinda was meant for those not involved from Sat night til 430 Sunday, but it also covers those who did the deed. If sex was not the motive, the killers certainly did a schizophrenic staging scenario to imply Tina and Sue were sex targets. Oh, and of course, all the postmortem trauma to Johnny and, most blatantly, Dana, to make it clear those boys were also targeted.

The first lesson of the staging is the killers- and Sly's SS- made this out to be a crime of opportunity, where all weapons came from inside a house that was unlocked. Thrill Kill. Seriously, gauge for me the damnation brought upon PCSO when Doug Thomas announced he'd hoped it was the I-5 Killer, despite his early-March arrest. And that Tina was the crux. And that some tiny object (barrel site?) was the key. And all the lies filed with Quantico, directly leading to John Douglas' ill-informed profile.

It's clear so much was done after-the-fact by LE, but I also believe the Tunabi should primarily fend for itself. The Loonibi had Marty and Bo dropping all their dimes within two days of the murders, then the Tunabi begins when Loon can riff off the main lies without Bo or Marty around (yes Marty was in town for another 10 days, but where's the paperwork?). Marty and Bo didn't have the opportunity to defend themselves, but my bet is if they were aware of the shit Loon and Nina were flushing down the pipeline, they woulda bailed from the Klamath Arcade long before they did. The ONLY reasons the BM Buttboys stuck to room 237a is because they told LE they would be there (over state line, no FBI merit, absolutely no justification for harassing or arresting), and they had other shit going down which allowed Marty to keep all his therapy sessions, up to and including the confession and kiss-bye-bye visit. And many of Marty's letters to Loon came from those last few days at the Arcade.

arcade? Shit does that ring a bell. When I found Bo's Arcadia Motel was really the Arcade Hotel, I felt cheap, dirty, used. So much of this case is arcades, drugs, kids, murder. When I got the true name of the hotel, the Arcade, I was devastated. Again.

The Tunabi is more realistic and problematic. It begins on April 12, and 35 years later the primary participants- Loon and Nina- continue to agree, conflict, play mind games, make up, fuck up, fight again, make up new stories. It's exponentially tougher to map, understand, debunk, etc. It's all a pile of shit, rather than a pillar. These are miles of piles of lies by, mainly, Loon and Nina.

The Loonibi is a goddamned solid pillar of shit by comparison: A couple interviews, supporting and undermining documents, then the very damning TRUE VERSIONS of the transcripts. Then, Sunday morning, from the moment Nina and Loon speak, the Tunabi begins.

Yes, drugs run through this, I've torn apart the 'DEA contact' stuff as much as I can, and I simply don't buy that it has ANYTHING to do with J/D being involved. Hell, LE can't even keep straight who/what/where the info was found. Johnny's school papers? Dana's wallet?

And Johnny's wallet was behind the COUCH. Why no mention of Dana's? Tina's was on the cardboard box nightstand next to her bloodstained pillow. Sue's was in her voluminous purse, at the foot of her perch on the couch.

One thing I learned early is how Sue used that corner of the couch. It's evident in so many photos, including CS. The 1980 xmas, all the furniture was moved around to allow for a different look and feel ( I think Sue had fun moving furniture around to change the feel, and she did it also as a way to get the kids involved). The 1980 xmas photos are interesting, as the couch is 180 and right on top of where Johnny was placed. But Sue was anchored in her corner! That was her side of the couch, and orientation didn't matter. The right arm cushion of that couch was perma-indented with her big glass ashtray. And coffee cup.


There's many reasons to look at a couple Meeks, but I'll be damned if I'll crowd them all in as even POIs. Only Nina and Wade are my POIs. If others come up, it must be explained why, but Nina and Wade are perpetually obvious.

Someone was recently asking me about Mike's and Greg's beliefs, expressed in the articles and/or TV show, that Tina was their believed target. They said all of that before I spent time with them. Maybe some came later, but I believe the majority is before. When we were in the Keddie room, we were throwing so many things around it was like a food fight. And a lot of stuff stuck to the walls. I believe they'd spent so much time vetting info that they really hadn't let things settle. The case has always been portrayed as TINA TINA TINA,so they hadn't considered Tina the red herring. But she is.

Just as one can't believe the killers knew Tina was home (as she normally wouldn't have been, and didn't come home til 10), we also don't know if Sheila could have been a target. Damn, just because Sheila's and Richard's Sat timelines have so many disparities doesn't mean there was a hit out on Sheila.

The old Sac Bee article I recently filleted mentions three timelines: J&D, Activities at 28, Sue and Tina. No mention of Rick, Greg, Justin, 26. Shit, those are the elephants in the damned room and PCSO/Crimely ignored them from scratch.

I have ZERO DOUBT Loon knew where her beloved younger son was when they left for the bar at 730. 930, 1130- depending on which lie you believe. Doesn't that also imply she knew where Justin was? As in: "It's 11:00 o'clock, you're at a bar planning a mass murder- do you know where your kids are?!" (That was a popular PSA on US TV and radio at the time).Seriously, do we think for a moment these assholes had gone far enough down the road to mass murder NOT TO KNOW where Justin was when they entered 28?

I know it's nice and easy to suppose Justin was a plant, but that complicates Occam's Razor. Despite Justin being now a lifelong coward and killer kunt, his initial reaction was to tell Sly's SS the truth. That Sue went looking for other kids still freaks me, because it happened. The supposed "Who Is This?!" call. The Tunabi lie (this is interesting because it happened on Saturday, yet seems to be a Tunabi Lie) where Nina insists she never called Sue Saturday, and Sue left her house at 6 pm Saturday.

Aus, so many people are lying now. But they've been lying for decades, decades, and decades. All true.

If we admit we don't know what we need to know, or at least it's there and we haven't realized it or vetted it, let's go systematically and with respect. I'm the first to admit there's hinky shit afoot, and we prolly should've been tearing into this long long ago, but what we have are lies leading to the grave of Slim Pickens.

I think it's enough that I opened this can of worms by fucking up and not realizing Justin was interviewed in Keddie around 1030 am, which completely (and perhaps exculpatory) indicates the Meeks must have first came to 26 much later than I'd inferred. LATER rather than earlier.

Still, that noon shot is NOT explainable. Yet.

[Ausgirl]

If you want to play with why Sheila and Rick are silent, please leave Greg the fuck alone. He was five in 81, and Sheila and Richard share that baggage. Greg has no part in ANY of this. OK? Even when I say Greg told Crim he woke up in the night, it's indication of more false reports and a blank tape. But leave Greg out of all this shit. He was FIVE ffs.

Don't tear them apart, this isn't Stockholm Syndrome but maybe it is.

...who's after tearing them apart, though? Shit, I have ton of compassion for them all, especially Greg. Even now, even knowing the truth of things was often not spoken.. I have compassion. They're not the criminals, here.

[dmac]

Yeah, I was making a blanket statement. Many people are confused as to why I go after Justin but not the others. I think we're mostly unable to grasp the complex phsychological issues behind the silence and lies. Shit, if your loved ones were slaughtered and you witness law enforcement scum do everything they can NOT to help for literally decades, others can only imagine the impact and scarring that comes with it.

One would hope that the current and genuine work being done would be enough to break the silence.

Apparently,it's not yet enough- and we must accept it may never be.

[budrfligh]

A 5 year old can forget trauma without prompting. I believe he was traumatized and repeatedly told he was asleep , he doesn't remember or that is just a bad dream..... he is compromised and probably believes he knows nothing. Those kids tried to talk and hit a wall of silence through fear, guilt and manipulation. What pisses me off is that Justin KNOWS and won't tell, maybe for a price after mommy dearest expires.

[justice17]

Besides a hostage situation, the following 4 Types of Situations also occur in severely controlling, abusive relationships, creating the Stockholm Syndrome responses:

1. The presence of a perceived threat to one’s physical or psychological survival and the belief that the abuser would carry out the threat

2. The presence of a perceived small kindness from the abuser to the victim

3. Isolation from perspectives other than those of the abuser

4. The perceived inability to escape the situation

[dmac]

source: http://receivehealing.com/blog/217/abus ... -syndrome/

In rethinking the whole 'hunch' vs 'deduction' argument, many deductions must start from hunches. Patterns are discovered, IDd via a hunch, and continue to verify themselves through repetition or similar lying patterns. Of course, wit the Loonibi behind the murders, the Tunabi behind the Meeks, and the Goonibi behind the LE cover-up, the lying patterns, while different, are also pretty damned stupid, over-the-top blatant, and (most importantly) OBVIOUS TO A PRE-SCHOOLER.

But recognizing them early is key, and those are probably called hunches. I dunno, maybe NOT

Look at the best example I can think of as a "hunch". I flat out knew, 99%, that were Tony the Greek IDd, he would be a Doppelganger of Avery Schreiber. Right around the time I publicly announced that, a thread about where Tony lived, and who he could maybe be, began on this site. Many people jumped in trying to ID the site of the Hot Springs where Tony lived, where Marty tried to execute Loon and the Boys. A handful of us were posting on top of each other our recent observations/revelation, and at least three there also believed M&M's RA was to protect Tony the G.

Behind the scenes, seeral of us had concluded the EXACT SAME THING: Tony was not only Avery Schreiber, but the killer/assistant for whom Marty's and Loon's and Dee's pals in 13 made up that ridiculous "reverse alibi".

"Reverse Alibi". I know people lie to provide false alibis, but I don't think I'd ever heard of a scenario where someone makes up a lie where the person they're protecting is indicated as an identical twin ten years older and with an expensive new green-on-white just in order to state LE would be mistaking the real perp for this invented perp. Has anyone seen any similar instance?

That's why I openly mocked the lies within the shit coming from 13, coining the term "reverse alibi" as a result of my deducing all they did was lie to protect someone that was involved and a dead-ringer for Avery. But enough of us saw merit to believe it was, indeed, a huge lie conspired, called in to police by Mike, then "verified" by Martel-me-no-lies, to indicate Tony was NOT at cabin 28 because Tony's unknown decades-older identical twin brother was both fucking and fighting Sue in the front yard. Which those in 13 saw through a window where the view of what they claimed was wonderfully IMPOSSIBLE.

So, multiple people believed Mike and Martel were hiding a person's ID, and that person was deduced by a few of us to be Tony The Greek, later IDd by Princess as Tony Garedakis.

Logically, we'd known the IDs of many killers and POIs. We'd already found and published their photos, making the pool of 'possibles' for the RA Avery relatively small. Of those, Tony the Greek was the one bitch these murderous morons mainly mentioned yet could never put a true name to. "Tony the Greek" was already a sore thumb to anyone aware of that bullshit lack of a surname.

So that's really not multiple people with identical hunches, just multiples looking into the idea "RA" is true and, as such, who is the one unknown name and FACE 13's M&M had in common with the known killers?

That's not hard to figure out. By the time I'd come up with the idea that M&M perped an RA, Tony the Greek was already legendary for his being so prominent yet unknown.

Therefore, ignore much of this post. All I've proved is logical deductions are all over the place, and recognition of patterns aren't hunches but early recognition of patterns one then proves with research.

Recognition of patterns also leads to many false accusations AND convictions, because those behind the 'deduction's are fucking frauds. Look at WM3.

[justice17]

D: Your last post is a lot to take in. I Will have to read it a couple of times.

RE: MARTEL-Odd statements that have always bothered me:

"I'm not even involved. I'm just peeking out the window,hoping nobody sees me".
So did she see something,or know something was going down?

"What did she do to make this man so angry? She did something.
WTF?! Nobody deserves to be murdered,Martel!
(Note the word "THIS". (Language expert Red flag).