BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby dmac » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:10 pm

I've been in touch with Mike, he sent a very detailed account of how he verified this info, and I now retract my retraction: The below account is accurate, and this person has, multiple times, verified she knows Loon and Marty and Sue, and Sue was screwing Marty.

Fuck me for caring that, no matter their faults, Tina, Dana, Johnny, and Sue all died for the egos of their killers. They never deserved anything CLOSE to the closure of their lives, dispensed by true assholes.


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On the Motives for Murder thread, I explained several plausible motives, including Marty and Sue having a relationship. In another thread, I explained how Loon was a serial user of men who was justified in fucking and fucking over whomever she wanted, but if one of her men ever strayed before she did, it was a killing offense. Turns out I was exactly right.

Gamberg and I have been emailing each other furiously in the past few days, and he emailed me today about some more Karl Spang reports he'd recently read. Stuff we've never seen. Bullshit about Johnny and Dana scoring weed from him, then burning him on the deal, which was described as his reason to go out to Keddie. In the middle of the night. And park for a while by Marde's Hammer Pond?! PCSO researched part of his story, and in doing so, found documentation that Sue was fucking Marty. A witness, a bartender no less, said Marty was Sue's boyfriend, and Marty gave this bartender the creeps because he was so protective of her, like the obsession I've so often heard described. Well, no point in reinventing the wheel, so I'll include an edited version of my reply to Mike: Well, first, part of his email for better context:

    Something struck me about motive, just a thought . During the investigation Karl Spang a local doper was interviewed at length by Steve Wright, then a deputy. Spang said that he had fronted J&D money for dope and followed them to MV to a party and then back to Keddie. All bullshit babble re: a drug motive?? During the interviews Spang said that he'd been stiffed and went back to Greenville to the Pioneer Bar where he witnesses a fight and that xxxxx was the bartender and could verify the info.

    5/10/81 xxxx was contacted by Wright, dispelling what Spang was telling the deputy.
    xxxxx told the deputy in context, that she knew "Sue Sharp from college at FRC two semesters ago". She said that Sharp was going with a "Martin Smart, a Vietnam Vet". She said that Martin gave her "the creeps" because he was so "protective and possessive and jealous of her". Again nothing was done to follow up the information.

    You had mentioned in the past that Marty was upset that Sue was banging the railroader in the trailer just above his cabin. Coupled with Marilyn being counseled by Sue to divorce Marty could go to motive. Just a thought?? Do Ya Think?

My reply:

    Yeah, I've read the Spang files many times. I find his story to be as bullshit-filled as Walke/Thompson. I think the Dana he's usually talking about is Dana Green, that cunt Mona's doper son. Like Walke and T, he was in Keddie for a nefarious enough reason to make up an extremely large pile of BS about why he was there. And, just like W/T, he has to insert himself into the case. And, like T, he even infers he had the ways, means, and motive.

    I'd never seen any of what you've mentioned in files I've accessed: drug debt, Pioneer bar fight, Marty was banging Sue. I've always felt Loon set Sue up and, if Sue and Marty were dumb enough about it that even a bartender knew, then Loon had probably caught wind of it- which is how Marty was suddenly informed Sue had been 'counseling' Loon into leaving. But, to me, it's far more likely Marty made that shit up just as window dressing for the confession. Like his story of taking Tina from the house while 'incapacitated' is his light language for 'dead', and his line about "I only killed the girls" was somehow meant to suggest he was somehow less evil than whoever killed the boys. It was certainly less messy- and far less logical- to say that Sue was an extreme bitch messing with his marriage, the fact is Marty fucking Sue did mess up his marriage. So he shifted the language around to again make it appear Sue's murder was all her fault, and Marty had no hand in the motive. So, the short and curlies of motive is Marty was busted for banging Sue, which is why Loon said Sue had to go. This explains why Loon was so involved in a crime she instigated in order to get both Sue AND Marty out of the picture so she could openly fuck Wade.

    As I posted way back, Loon's MO was to fuck a guy dry, use him and dump him, while a new victim was usually already in play or at least lined up. Her going to the Meeks house that Sunday was because Nina already knew Wade was banging her. It explains so many of their lies over the years- what I call the Tunabi: Loon's and Meeks' alterations of the original Loonibi in order to further deflect implications of their own involvement (and motives- Wade banging Loon prior to the murders, and Nina's clear fixation and anger at Sue over the adoption of HER GRANDDAUGHTER). As I also said in that post, Loon is a very vindictive sociopath and, while she sees herself as guiltless for banging Wade, both Sue and Marty "had to go" for shaming her. In other words, unlike her public persona of the guiltless woman subjected to years of abuse by almost all her men, in reality she could fuck anything she wanted, but it was unacceptable for her man to do the same.

    Is xxxxx still afloat? When I spoke with one of Josh's producers (who quit after helping him steal documents, because Josh was veering away from the truth spelled out in the files), xxxx mentioned that it was fairly common knowledge that Marty was fixated on Sue. xxxxx was unsure if his desires had been consummated, but [bartender] makes it clear they had been. Not just that, but they were fairly stupid and in-the-open about it. This producer is also the source that Zonita had told them of overhearing a sexual encounter coming from 28 Saturday afternoon, the 11th. I'm pretty certain that if Z told Josh's crew, then her family is aware of that- and much more.

    I think there's a fairly strong likelihood of Sue turning the odd trick is more than rumor. We already know the line about her being a teetotaler is bullshit- she was seen in bars with her BFs, including Dareyl and the dead lounge singer, and now even Marty. Plus the info on her having a cocktail waitress position at the Elks is just another way for her to line up clients. And, again, if Marty knew about this, then his supposed comments about Sue being a whore line up with his part-time bible-thumping fixation, as well as his need for justification in a quad.

    Yeah, the story of Sue counseling Loon never lined up with reality, and certainly had a hollow ring to it. Sue was a shit mom who allowed her husband to abuse her and the kids, and was slowly meandering across America in the hopes James would take her back. She didn't give a damn about her kids, didn't want to be a mom, so she basically just didn't do it. And, no matter how Marty preferred to say it in his lightweight partial-confession, his pounding Sue certainly could be construed as Sue fucking with his marriage- exactly how the therapist described it. Fortunately, xxxxx's account was put on paper and survives. And, of course that avenue was closed off, as anything pointing to the killers, even motive, was shut down.

    Bottom line- we now have a clear set of motives for both Marty's and Loon's direct participation in the set-up and executions. And Bo is still the odd-man-out. Why the fuck did he involve himself? Hell, they walked in with a full kill kit, so he knew this home invasion wasn't just about taking a fuck from Sue and maybe Sheila. See, I doubt the killers knew Tina and Sheila swapped at the last minute. Which is another reason this had nothing to do with Tina, other than they took her in order to throw off LE. And, of course, the first thing Sly speculated publicly was that Tina was the key, perhaps even a participant. As if Marty wrote the script for him. It's also certainly the line of bullshit they were feeding Quantico, which is why John Douglas' profile parrots exactly what Crimely and DT wanted FBI to believe.

    d

So now we can finally and fully shoot down the 'counseling' bullshit as Marty's and Loon's way of deflecting their true motives.
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby budrfligh » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:54 pm

Talk about the skeleton in the closet. But jealousy sure is personal and in murder violent/ over kill. DAMN
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby justice17 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:28 pm

Wow...:o
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby sparkplug » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:38 pm

So only a bartender said this, and no one else?
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby dmac » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:00 pm

As I said in my email reply, it was fairly widely known Marty had a thing for Sue, but the source didn't know it was reciprocated. This is just the first known instance of someone confirming they were an item- not only that, but repeating what's always been described as Marty's obsession with Sue.

The fact Mike points out they went so far as to shoot down Spang's bullshit, but did absolutely no followup with the contention that not only was Marty fucking Sue, but were brazenly open about it and Marty was clearly and dangerously obsessed, goes a good goddamned long way to certifying it as absolute fact. Again, whenever Marty, Bo, or Loon- or Dee or Tony or Mike & Martell, etc- did or said or were IDd as incriminated, LE just turned off the angles and made it go away. They were not about to allow a line of inquiry in pursuit of who they openly knew were the killers.
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby Ausgirl » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:03 pm

i think it'd be good to re-interview that bartender, and just make sure it was Sue he was talking about.

But if true.. and given Marty's pathetic begging for Loon to take him back.. maybe Loon found out, or suspected, or Sue threatened to tell, thereby upsetting the applecart of M's main obsession, his wife.

Gives another layer of meaning to his note 'four lives for you'.
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby dmac » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:17 pm

Yeah, I asked if she was still around ("still floating"), but I have no doubt she knows it was Sue and Marty. Sue was in the news, known, and identified because she'd attended college with the source. And it's not like Sue could ever be mistaken for Loon in appearance or physical similarity. I think it's a stand-alone out-of-the-park home run.
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby Ausgirl » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:36 pm

Greenville..keeps coming up.

Stephen, cousin to the Meekses.. his indian pals, a fight and Johnny's week old black eye.
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby dmac » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:41 pm

This particular bar pops up a few times. And however thin the shield is, going to a bar in GVille is less obvious than going to Q or, god forbid, the Back Door. And notice how Marty said, had they had a car (and they fucking well did), they would have skipped the shithole Back Door in favor of a Q bar. Not a Gville bar.
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby justice17 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:06 pm

NEW RULE Marilyn Smartt Musgrove is in the House
by justice17 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:56 pm

LOON: Forever the LIAR :oops:

Hi Marilyn,
Do you think Marde had "a thing" for Sue?

________________________________________

by Marilyn Musgrove » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:52 pm
To my knowledge Marde didn't even know Sue...
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby bullshit-buster » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:13 pm

she wont acknowledge the marty sue 'friendship". its kinda the elephant in the room.....
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby dd1 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:50 am

Okay, so Loon knows Marty is banging Sue, tells Marty to prove he loves her (Loon) he
should kill Sue. The kids were collateral damage. This being the 4 lives & the love Marty
was speaking of in the letter.
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby azucena » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:35 am

Oftentimes , the most obvious and most simple can be elusive. So it would appear the tangled web of dysfunctional, manipulative male/female relationships lies at the heart of the death of four people and ruined lives for the survivors.

"Marty had a thing for Sue", has been around for years and years, which, I for one largely dismissed as too convienient, pat and unverified. The person at the core, Marilyn, would seem to have played tit for tat by having relations with Wade, then turned the tables on Sue. Sue, destroying her marriage, blah blah. Jealousy rears it's head, Sue's relation with Darell (sp?) Disloyal to all. Where Bo fits in, I too wonder, except sociopaths the whole lot, he likely did not care about participating, just another day.

So what is ultimately a gross reason for multiple murders, including adolescents and a young girl, leads to the the question of why no swift resolution, the case should have been pretty easy to solve, and certainly should not have taken 30+ years. Which leads right to what d has been saying for YEARS : the big part of the crime is cover up.
Why?
This is perhaps where Bo figures most prominently: Why protect Marty, Marilyn and others, pretty expendable in my mind. Bo may have been the reason no one worried about being caught, exposed. Bo maybe was not so expendable.
More secrets . Corruption.
Gam was TOLD NOT to investigate this case.
As if all of this is not ugly enough, the underbelly of LE is even more sickening
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby Salem » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:08 am

Is it enough to bring Loon in? I so want to see someone in front of the Judge.

Is there the hard evidence to put Loon in the room and make her explain herself? What else is needed? Does LE need to promise Justin safety from his mother? Some kind of immunity to make him talk? A public defender to help him through coming clean? What?

What can be done now, to help bring this to resolution?
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby budrfligh » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:11 am

I just spent an hour typing out a response only to have it disappear. I am recovering from surgery and am having a hard time because it was ortho wrist surgery. But I'm going to try again. Dmac can you email me a guide for dummies on how to save and bring back up posts as I write them? Hmm hmm pain killers........
So I am reminded of a case involving3 teens, a love triangle and high school track. A boy meets a girl at a track meet ( both are athletes from diff schools) they befriend and his relationship sours with the girlfriend. They split up and the other 2 have a go. Well that was short lived so he is back together with the girlfriend. He tells all((shhhh)) and she insists the only way they can be together is to undo the affair. Turns out one must murder the other girl to do this. So they did. I have found that this is more common than one case. It isn't a syndrome. It is vindictive bitch mode of the scorned woman. Needless to say the revelation has stirred up quite a few old theories from the corners of my mind.I'm dusting them off for review.....
Let me say once more( no promises) that this sets off the "she deserved it" theme again for me. That theme enabled the crime and is justification for those who know from feeling guilty enough to spill. Loon being a narcissistic sociopath could easily manipulate a young boy to protect their lifestyle/ existence. She was capable of the multi layered and degrading gag. Nothing is so vicious as a female's revenge. Oh the plots we come up with to destroy a rival! Fortunately98% of us only think about the ways to ruin our enemies but this narc actually acted on it.....
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby dmac » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:25 pm

The easiest way not to lose a post, particularly a lengthy one that takes effort, is to write it up as a text file, then copy/paste it onto the forum. Even easier is an add-on called Lazurus, which auto-saves forms, emails, etc., as you type them. If you lose a forum message, go back and right-click inside the form box, and choose which message you want to paste in.

The scenario we're now seeing as having played out in Keddie is as old as dirt. It's also what I long suspected, which is why I balked at fully endorsing the nonsensical 'counseling' storyline. Only recently (1950s and on) have we seen kids, younger and younger, doing these same triangle crimes. And that has more to do with all the hormones in our foods (meats primarily) and very unhealthy portrayals of violence 24/7/365 in our media. Shit, kids are sexually developing years earlier than normal, and it doesn't take a scientist to recognize why!

But, certainly, I've always felt this case was about killers with a sense of entitlement. It wasn't just their right, but their duty. At the very latest, this rolls into motion the afternoon of April 11. We know Tina was out playing around, as were Sheila and Greg. Rick was with Justin and Casey. Dareyl was in Paradise for the weekend. So who was having sex in 28 that afternoon?

I've always believed LE lied when stating it was unsure which Saturday Marty was overheard saying someone would die if things didn't get fixed. I've always seen the night out at the bar, as well as the murders, as Marty's fake birthday party- April 11 being the day he claimed was his birthday in order to join the military early. His real birthday was May 11. But, yes, this is all about the killers being more important than anyone, and the victims being worthless.

Unfortunately, Crimely and Sly's Killer Kops agreed.
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby dmac » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:29 pm

Sorry, I missed so many posts when reacting to Budrefligh.

AZUCENA: you're so EXTREMELY spot on, but Bo's scenario is just under the skin. Occums Razor is the answer for Marty's and Loon's motive fr closing that triangle. Even if it meant a quad.

Nobody's seen much of my Bo background work on what a time-shifting piece of jail.military fraud he is, only because it's been online for nearly a fucking decade. I have worse on this pig, but I still want all of you to consider Occum's Razor as the rationale behind Bo walking into 28 with Loon and Bo as kill-kit organizing orchestrators.

You tell me what Bo thought he was in for when walking into main-level house 28 through the unlocked front door with a kill kit. Ignore all you think you know, particularly protection from LE- D FUCKING O FUCKING J!

Ignore all you think, make the simplest connection between Bo lying about killing four in 28, and his being so in control of the systematically moronic staging.

NEVER make Bo out as smarter. He had to be the dumbest in the bunch to be taken by Loon.

Walk way the fuck back and Bo's involvement makes more sense.

I'm not talking just to you on that one point, Azu, but I was primarily speaking to your Q.

I have a lotta I won't talk about, just so all you know. This goes to Salem, your Qs deal with prosecution.

As do mine.

I won't say one damned thing I think could unfuck a perp.
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby chrisAAA » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:44 pm

This is really something to think about. With this revelation -- that was maybe not exactly new-- it makes me wonder: could Bo have talked up some having some kind of "untouchable" status to Marty and Sue? Could that have been part of the logic the killers used to justify what they did, thinking that Bo could keep them from prosecution because of some kind of special status? I could just imagine that the extremity of this crime could have somehow had something to do with Bo acting out of an impunity he believed he could extend to Marty and Sue. The recent full transcript of his only LE interview feels perfunctory, like a formality with no intention of producing any kind of meaningful information about the murders.

azucena wrote:Oftentimes , the most obvious and most simple can be elusive...
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby dmac » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:14 pm

One last point-

I don't go after anyone in the case, unless they are motherfucking scum. I go after Loon, Justin, Dee, Tony, etc, but I've contacted only a couple folks with peripheral involvement- for instance, just for being near witnesses of witnesses discussing what they thought they saw.

i've gone after Sue and other victims- if we throw softballs at the victims, we'll never find the perps. Ask Sheila if Sue had boyfriends? "NO". But Sue was fucking DAREYL at his trailer, leaving her kids alone at 28 overnight, in the NIGHTS prior to the murders. And it was SUE fucking the dead lounge singer. And Baze and others. OHHHHHH, and Sheila had NO CLUE Sue was FUCKING MARDE, the bitch behind all four murders?

I have no qualms about calling Sue out as Marty's lover? No, I had no qualms calling Sue out as a shit mom. I had no issues stating Sue and Marty were probably linked. That Marty's fixation on Sue wasn't acknowledged?

Fuck YOU SHEILA, you've lied from DAY FUCK !, meaning many of the past thirty years are on your broken back.

Sheila cannot ignore knowing much of the shit that is the Family Closet, yet she did.

Sorry, Sheila, explain why you want to know what we've learned since you quit this forum after we outed you as the liar you are defined as? And why do you keep logging on?

IF we ignore the lives and movements of the victims, we'll never find the killers. Sue needs to be concidered EXACTLY as Marty, Bo, etc, were. LE never saw Loon as a worthless mom because they NEVER LOOKED AT SHIT THEY WROTE A YEAR PRIOR. Sue let Tina go right back to FUCK A KID GOLF PARK.

Sheila lies about everything. Do you want family lies that Sue was a brilliant mom who took in stray kittens, or the worthless shit all of the rest of Plumas saw?

Sorry, Sheila, your mom was worthless. You didn't know any better. She didn't deserve ANY of what happened. Nobody did. So stop lying.
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Re: BOMBSHELL: Marty's and Loon's Motives Finally Found

Postby budrfligh » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:56 am

Thanks for the tips Dmac! I'm going to try Lazarus and since it will work in other places. Very much appreciated!!
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