Face Very Ugly Facts

[dmac]

Sheila and most others have lied to protect the reps of the dead.

Fuck that bullshit. Despite all I say, I have soft spots for the victims. But we need to call a turd a stinky turd when we see it.

My going after histories of the Vx is just a basic move. It's all about why they were murdered. In doing so, I've particularly found Sue to be the main target and the cause.

I stand by the investigative process I've learned from scratch. No stone unturned, and look at the Vx as much as the killers.

If me calling Sue out as a shit mom, perhaps even whore, makes you uneasy, fuck the fuck off. This case is very ugly already, and I doubt you can stomach where it's heading. Reality TV is yer shitbox and reality ain't yer bag.

I make no excuses, as I need none.

[budrfligh]

It is a well known fact that lifestyle is a major factor in victimology. Nothing good happens in a bar after midnight, drug abuse and being in the sex trade are also a good way to be a victim. I'm not saying this explicitly relates to this case. It is merely an example. It is victimology not victim bashing and unfortunately we must splay open the dirty details to solve cases. I try not to victim bash. I find it distasteful. However the truth is the truth.

[Ausgirl]

I've seen time and again over the years on various crime forums, how refusing to even consider the darker side of a victim's life has fucked a case - and all enquiry into it, from parties outside LE. I've been guilty of this, in my time, as well... sainting the dead is a strong cultural drive, even when it should be obvious that it's detrimental to truth.

Sue's truth doesn't lessen one iota the heinousness of what happened to her and to the children. But it does help explain the mechanics of the crime.

[budrfligh]

Well said Aus! We should never forget that nobody deserves this. I believe that is killers and accessories justify this crime by telling themselves she got what was coming to her. I don't know how they justify the children but I'm not like them. Trying to get inside a killers head is like shape shifting in my minds eye. I guess it is as simple as self preservation and they feel it was u fortunate they got in the way..... Heart of Steel...... Secrets hidden in the dark fester and bringing them into the light is the only way to heal.

[dmac]

Aus, you were witness to me sanctifying both Sue and Sheila. You also saw Sheila tear herself down by confronting our poor forum against her distant and stupid lies.

I fought like hell for Sue as "Best Mommy 1980" until I said in chat "Sheila has lied over the years"

Sheila had been a worthless trivial shit by then for MONTHS, so her coming directly at me with her hillbilly buttflap-sharpened Ginsu hubby just made me laugh. I took that flimsy faggy Tofu Dick down while answering a true bitch, Sheila. What a couple of worthless fucks. Oh, the worthlessness they proved.

No apologies, fuck Sheila and fuck Ginsu Gag-a-maggot. I tossed the survival rope back to them that day, the stupid fuckers. Sheila degraded the case that day. After that, I knew I was right. Skeletons had to be found, as they were the sole bag of trix we had. FAMILY LIES.

That day. Sheila fucked Sue just as Marty did on April 12. Harsh? Fuck harsh, and FUCK SHEILA. Lying moron cunt.

Fuck you Sheila, we now know. You wanted and begged for our help? Well we now know your mom was fucking everything in sight. including Marty, her murderer.

That does NOT make Sue the victim Sheila absolutely does: In many ways, Sue was ill-adept at survival. Even at the first, I see her as missing any sexual revolution and pushing five kids aside for any fuck around. It sounds trampy, but not were Sue a male. Sue was used and abused at an early age, I believe she was a concept of sexual abuse before she married at Bo's Minus 5 to a cunt in the Fucknaught Navy, Incestuous Fuck First Class James Sharp.

...and fucking tired of military life, military wife, military kids. She wanted, in 1979, was to be 1967 and kid free.

No laughs at the cost of April 12 1981 when she got it.

Do not EVER concede Sue deserved a fucking "thing she got" Only callous, used, heartless fux like me can say who deserves what, and Loon, Oh, Loon, I'll get to your 02 tank and kill your supply of fart balloon jokes..

[azucena]

With the recent revelations about Marde and Sue, I think we are realizing that it is necessary to face issues regarding Sue, that were distateful, and felt like were tarnishing the character of a victim.

I discounted "rumors" about Marde and Sue, but now am looking at statements that were made that I also discounted, such as Zonita Seabolt speaking about Sue's sexual lifestyle. It appears Sue was involved with a number of people, which is her right ( although it likely effected her parenting in a negative way) but could well have also been a motive for her murder. It is possible some of her sexual behavior was done for money, although that is pure spec, and I do not say it to be unkind.
It seems we have a pretty solid lead into the motive of these murders, but the subsequent cover up by LE is more troubling, and leads me to the issue of drugs. Cocaine was the drug of choice here in the early 80s, Meth was not as well known. No drugs were found in the systems of any of the victims. But, let's consider that the usual drug tests only find traces of most drugs in the first 24-36 hours after use, excepting marijuana, which can be detected for 30 days. Hair tests, used now, can detect drug use for a year. This was not available in 81. As well, labs can test at different levels to detect traces of drugs. Standard tests done in the 80s likely used for these victims, would likely not have found any traces of drugs. Therefore, I do not think we should wholly discount the possibility that there may have been drugs involved with Sue, and less likely,Johnny and Dana.
As well, cocaine historically has the moniker of being an aphrodisiac, which perhaps was fueling all of the POIs and maybe Sue's behavior.
This may be the roots of LE cover up . Why were all suspects seemingly protected by LE? Seems more likely to me those being protected were from a whole different segment of the community. I wonder if further discussion with remaining witnesses could shed some light on drug use by all involved parties..

[budrfligh]

Pot_30 days
Cocaine 76 hours or 3 days
Acid 24_48 hours
Methamphetamine was the up and comer thru biker clubs via California \Hells Angels at that time.Google the 80's drug wars between the Angels and midwest clubs. Since amphetamines were part of tox screens I'll accept that neg result too
MDA was used by the Manson cult so that was around too_ extacy not sure how long it is delectable
Now those are 80's testing abilities not todays.

[azucena]

Meth was not yet big in Plumas in 81. "Uppers" we're around, but not Meth, as in it's contemporary form.
One other thing to remember about drug tests, is that the standard tests test for certain levels in the blood or urine. The tech can adjust the test to be more sensitive and look for drug residues at higher calibrations. Therefore, I don't think we can rule out drugs on the basis of a test run in 1981, especially since I don't think we know how detailed the lab test was.

[dmac]

Right, we don't know what was screened for on these victims in 81, nor do we know the form of test(s) or its reliabilit(ies). Nor do we know the nature of either independence or competency of those that did the tests, other than we have some info it was done by CA-DOJ- so, there goes the independence.

Without giving weight to Loon, I can see Marty calling Sue a whore and Johnny an asshole. Hell, many people probably said the same. Tis the nature of humans. But there are other things, like Marty supposedly also calling Tina a whore, and another saying she was "a fast little girl", et., etc., that chews up my brain and spits it out.

I agree that, were LE to build a case against the actual killers, it had to put elements of both PCSO and CA-DOJ (and other powers?) in a predicament. It would expose something very embarrassing at the least, and highly illegal at the worst.

I've been saying it for years, but to those that don't know, read up on what the CIA were doing in Panama, how the US DOJ were helping, and how the Queen's Accident makes it pretty clear distribution was handled through many lower and local channels of power. And before the new Tom Hanks movie comes out, watch "Kill the Messenger".

[budrfligh]

Is there no official tox screen document? It would outline what tests were performed and results. It ids my personal opinion J&D hung on the outskirts of the druggies while tending to be loner types. I imagine they told some tall tales of escapades with drugs but were not users.

[azucena]

I agree that Johnny and Dana were likely not big users, but given their ages might have liked to have thought themselves as " big shots".
We do know there was a pot rip off aasociated with one of them, that was dealt with pretty quietly.

I am more wondering about Sue at this point, as well as Bo, Marilyn and Marde..

[dmac]

There is (or was) tox results somewhere. Would have come from the labs, and not necessarily been propagated back to LE, as it would be gibberish to them- they prolly got a pos/neg result on paper or, as is seen many other places, LE had to call for results, then write up a report. Origs should be on file @CA-DOJ (unless Crimely burned them). I'd hate for this info only 5to be provided in the Grapevine format, as we're seeing so many original reports are frauds by corrupt LE.

There are too many reasons to suspect dodgy results: DOJ did the tests, and the biggest reasons for the active hands in the coverup were Crimely (DoJ!). On some thread here, I listed all the CA-DOJ I found names for, and all the dirt I was able to pick up on them. Beyond the corruption of Crim and Bradley, for instance, is Sam Lister- a true piece of shit. He was in charge of the DOJ's polygraph department, and gave all the polys in the Keddie investigation. He was a known fuck-up way back in the 60s, when he gave Zodiac suspect a pass, not taking into account he was in a mental ward at the time, shot up to the gills on psychotropic drugs. This same scumload was busted for helping start and continue a 'jail snitch' system, where false testimonials would be deemed true by his magic lie detector, and the liar would be rewarded for helping to falsely convict another.

The guy that did latents- I also dug up dirt on him, but it's been too long now to recall off the top of my head. So, Crimely had at their fingertips a wide array of "Top DOJ Talent". It's too bad so many were found to be corrupt, and it's sad their word carried weight in Plumas- or anywhere else.

Johnny was supposedly unaware both times thefts occurred when he was visiting these people, and it's odd that all agreed he wasn't aware or involved but was made to pay half the damage anyway. And this is the asshole who had his pot stolen telling PCSO, "Yeah, they stole my pot!"

Weird Scenes Inside the Gold Mine.

...One more thought...

Has Tony Garedakis ever NOT paid for sex, other than those string of rapes? Who would sleep with that hair, loathsome toad without remuneration?

If Sue, indeed, slept with Tony, that answers the Big Q.

TonyGaredakis_1976.jpg

[leenie963]

Nice "Bo" tie. Sorry...had to.

[budrfligh]

Toxicology reports would be kept in hospital records as well. I don't know how long or how to access them or if it would even matter at this point.
Bo tie lolololol
Gardakis had some reason for the lie about firewood and behind Davis's oddball Avery Shriber sighting. Also I could be wrong but didn't Gardakis have a green and white blazer or truck too?

[budrfligh]

Another thing I've noted as abnormal- who tells cops their drugs were ripped off? People who know they want get arrested for drug possession that is who. DIRTY COP TOOK THOSE STATEMENTS

[Socal67]

DMAC I see now what you are saying now about Sue.
I wanted to protect her I think because I too was a single mom.
I can't defend what she did/ didn't do.
Single struggling moms still protect their children and don't allow people to molest them.
You can't protect your children though from the other parent( I'll explain later)