ACCURATE Transcript of Marty's DOJ Interview, 14 Apr 81

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ACCURATE Transcript of Marty's DOJ Interview, 14 Apr 81

Postby dmac » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:08 am

Here is the corrected transcript of the sham interview between Crim, Bradley, and Marty. While nowhere near as inaccurate as the Bo interview, there are still major errors and important passages missing from the 'official' version.

This version should be read in it's entirety, and even meticulously compared to the 'official' version to understand the vast differences in meaning. The major shifts in interpretation are striking, and very incriminating.

Around the mid-point, Marty begins loudly emphasizing sentences, and punching particular words. When a word is highlighted, it's because it's severely punched by whoever is talking. In the case of Marty, he nearly shouts the words. When you get to Marty's description of he crimes, and how he would have done them, and why/how he thinks they were done, the corrections are most incriminating. They were speculating that the murders were a drug hit, etc.

Yes, this does open up wide new avenues of discussion, and the clarifications reopen many old avenues as well.


Martin Smart Interview, 14 April 1981

Crim: This is a taped interview of Martin Smartt, S-M-A-R-T-T, what's your address?

Smartt: Uh, Box 302.

Crim: Box 302, Keddie, and your cabin number?

Smartt: 26.

Crim: Cabin #26. By special agents, Harry Bradley and P.A. Crim, Jr. This interview has been conducted in a Banquet room of the, uh, Keddie Resort Hotel, and the time is approximately 11:25 a.m. Do you have a middle name, Martin?

Smartt: Ray, R-A-Y.

Crim: Okay. Because I told you right before Mike put the tape on that we, uhh... You're aware of what happened over there...

Smartt: Oh, ya

Bradley: At least you know something bad happened [unintelligible]. What we want to do, we've been interviewing people throughout the resort, especially those those that were close to the house, the kids that were there and everything else. And we understood from, uh, the Sheriff that you and, uh, John come down, and maybe your wife come down to the bar, close proximity to where this thing occurred, so we'd just kind of like to go over those events with you.

Smartt: O.K.

Bradley: Uh, and times, and what you saw and what you heard and that type of thing. The reason we asked John to leave is cause sometimes if you hear him, that will put an idea in your head, you know.

Smartt: Right, I realize that.

Bradley: O.K., so we just want your ideas of what you saw or heard and so forth.

Bradley: On Saturday, this past Saturday, can you tell us what time and who came down to the bar with you?

Smartt: O.K., we left our house about 10:00 o'clock, my wife, myself and John, And uh, we kept, we were around the bar until about 1:00 o'clock, like I say it wasn't real crowded but it was, you know, fairly crowded that night, and it was, I didn't really notice anything unusual except for one person, one individual came in about oh, I'd say 10:30 or 11:00 o'clock that I'd never seen before in the area of the rest of the people, you know.

Bradley: Do you know most of the people in the bar?

Smartt: Well, mainly the people that come and go in this area.

Bradley: Right.

Smartt: You live here awhile and you see em. I used to work in the restaurant here and I become familiar with a lot of the customers, and that one individual... Well, just the way he carried himself, he looked like trouble. He looked out of place for that type of establishment, is what I mean.

Bradley: Okay...

Smartt: He was in a t-shirt and Levi's and wearing a buck knife, extremely long hair. Uhh...

Bradley: I wonder if we can turn that thing down in there (referring to the background music)

Smartt: Unn, if you ask next door...



Bradley: Back on the tape.That picking up pretty good? [metallic crash] Check.



Bradley: We were talking about the first time on Saturday that you were at the bar...

Smartt: Right.

Bradley: ...between10:30 and 11:00 [metallic crash] One... And about !0:30 or 11:00, a guy came in. You were starting to describe him for us.

Smartt: Yeah, like I say about 5' 7", 5' 8“, extremely long hair. It was tied in a pony tail, and the individual didn't look like he belonged in the Back Door Lounge, ya know. It wasn't the type of clientele that they cater to. But he left shortly thereafter. He walked down... he was sitting at the bar where we were, and walked through where they were dancing, and went back out and left. As far as I know I didn't see, notice the guy again. That's the only person I saw that looked unusual, you know, or out of place that night.

Bradley: Right. Uhh... He a white man?

Smartt: Yeah.

Bradley: About how old?

Smartt: I'd say early 20's. 24 or 25.

Bradley: Did he... Did he have any face hair?

Smartt: Mustache, dark, heavy, mustache, and his hair was dark brown. And, of course, it was dark in there, I couldn't, I didn', pay enough attention to him to get a lot of description but I did know he had a mustache, but no beard.

Crim: But a heavy mustache?

Smartt: Yeah.

Bradley: Was it a Fu Manchu-type, down below the lip?

Smartt: Oh, kind of like mine, that's all, just... You know, it was heavy, brushy. And hair down almost to his waist, that long, tied in a pony tail, so... That's why he stood out, ya know, spotted out like that in a crowd, where there's usually nobody with that long of hair around... ·

Bradley: Yeah. Was that a white T-shirt or what?

Smartt: Geez, I don't remember, like I said, I didn't, it was dark and I didn't really pay close attention to the guy.

Bradley: Levis on?

Smartt: Levis and a t-shirt.

Bradley; And he had a buck knife?

Smart: One of the buck knives with a flap over the top of it. Pocket knife.

Bradley: Folding type.

Smartt: Yeah, that you wear on your belt.

Bradley: Mm-hmm... Uhhh... Who was the bartender out there that night?

Smartt: Let' see, Jack was workin, guy that runs the place, and a girl, I don't know who the girl was.

Bradley: The guy that runs the place, what's his name?

Smartt: Jack

Bradley: Jack? O.K., he was the bartender and also running it, and there was a girl there?

Smartt: Yeah, there was another girl tending bar and then a waitress.

Bradley: You don't know their names?

Smartt: I don't know em.

Bradley: How many customers do you think there was in there between the time frame that you were...

Smartt: 30

Bradley: Was it that many? About 30?

Smartt: 30 at one time.

Bradley: You're talking about a period over 3 hrs. where the crowd would fluctuate?

Smartt: Yeah, about 30—35

Bradley: So, at the most there was 30-35?

Smartt: Yeah, only other thing like I say, some guy came in about 1:00 o'clock, and bought a case of beer at those prices.

Bradley: At what prices?.

Smartt: At the bar prices, which I thought was unusual. I didn't recognize him. He had short hair.

Crim: How old a guy was he?

Smartt: Oh, late 20's early 30's. And I didn't notice much about him, I said it must be a hell of a party, ya know, buying $3.00 & $3.50 a 6-pack.

Crim: Yeah, that'a a little exorbitant.

Bradley: Would you say he's of age?

Smartt: Yeah, he was of age. He was a tall fellow, I'd say ah, oh, 6' 1", 6' 2", taller than I am, and that's why I noticed him. Other than that, like I say, I didn't really.

Bradley: He had short hair huh?

Smartt: Yeah, fairly close. No longer than mine. But I didn't, I didn't give him enough looking, to tell, I think his hair was curly and that's just about all I can remember of that gentlemen. [5 second pause] And I just can't think of anybody else that looked out of place enough that I would, ya know, take note of it.

Bradley: Just those two huh?

Crim: You say it was about what time?

Smartt: That was about 1:00 o'clock when he came in.

Bradley: Was the same bartender still working there?

Smartt: Yeah, Jack was still on, and I think the girl that was working the bar helped him. Cause at the time I was talkin to Doug Albin, the, uh, owner, one of the owners here, and...

Bradley: That was around 1:00 o'clock when you were talking to Doug?

Smartt: Yeah, he as down there, and I noticed this guy come in and get the beer.

Bradley: Who? Doug what?

Smartt: Albin, he's one of the owners.

Bradley: So Doug was there also?

Smartt: Mm-hmm. They were there right up till closing, right up close to it.

Bradley: Mm-kay.

Smartt: And ah, we went on home at 1:00 o'clock, I put my wife to bed. [7 second pause] And John and I came back to get a night cap.

Bradley: Was there any reason you went home?
Page 5

Smart: Yeah, well, the owner, Doug Albin's wife came down... We like country music, and the guy that was playing the music was playing country music. And she came down and insisted on he start playing rock and roll. So, we got up and left for that reason.

Bradley: Mm-hmm...

Smartt: And, uh [5 second pause] Then I came, I came back down, actually to have a night cap and lodge a complaint with the owner of the bar, ya know, I told the guy that runs the bar about having somebody that really doesn't have any authority down there to come in and order what can and can't be played, y'know? Which we did.

Bradley: That was Doug's wife that changed the music on you?

Smartt: Yeah. But ah, we had one drink and ah, then, ya know, it was last call, so it must have been, oh, I'd say ten or fifteen minutes before 2:00 o'clock.

Bradley: Okay.

Smartt: Then we walked back home.

Bradley: What else did you do, you got a nightcap...

Smartt: Yeah...

Bradley: But the first time you left at 1:00 o'clock, uhh, how did you go home? What direction did you take?

Smartt: Up around the lodge, then straight up the road. Mmm... The same way all three times.

Bradley: Okay... So you walked, you walked right past the, uh...

Smartt: Right past the Sharps. [In tandem with Bradley] The victims'...

Bradley: The victims house?

Smartt: Mm-hmm..

Bradley: O.K., now, we'd like you to really tune in on, at that time. Did you see anything unusual at that point? Any lights on in the house? Anybody standing around talking?

Smartt: Yeah.

Bradley: Any cars?

Smartt: We were involved in a conversation as we were walking.

Bradley: Mm-hmm.

Smartt: There was no cars parked on the street but... I would have noticed that. And, uh, the only thing I thought it was unusually dark in the area.

Bradley: Mm-hmm.

Smartt: There's usually a light in there somewhere. I can't recall exactly where the light is located, but there's usually a light in there shining, and it wasn't on.

Bradley: You mean in that row of houses. In that area.

Smartt: Yeah,, there should be a street light in there, and that particular night I didn't notice, but I thought it was awful dark in the area.

Bradley: Mmm...

Smartt: But, uh, like I say, we were involved in a conversation, and we really didn't pay any attention to that house...

Bradley: Yeah.

Crim: That's understandable.

Bradley: Yeah.

Smartt: And likewise, when we came back it was, oh, ten minutes later, we had enough time to take off our... We were in three-pieces, so we had enough time to take off our jacket and vest, and then put our jackets back on.

Bradley: Mm-hmm...

Smartt: And when we came back down and, ah... [5 second pause] Well, then, once again, we were in conversation...

Bradley: Mm-hmm...

Smartt: I can't think of anything at all during that period, [4 second pause] We came back down, that I noticed, that was out of place.

Bradley: How long do you think you were home?

Smartt: Mmmmmmaximum of 10 minutes.

Bradley: Did you do anything at home during that time?

Smartt: Well, I changed, and I called the guy at the bar and told him, I said you just lost several customers over lettin somebody switch the music..

Bradley: Mm-hmm

Smartt: And he says, well he, you know, he, the bartender was concerned, "don't be mad at me, come on back down", ya know, so we went back down to show good faith that we weren't mad at him. But, we must have got back down there, oh, 1:15, you know. We had about enough time to get one drink, before the bar closed.

Bradley: What time do they normally close? 1:30 or 2:00?

Smartt: Two. !:30, 2:00. Two-ish on Saturday.

Bradley: So you figure your got back there around 1:15, or l:30?

Smartt: 1:15 or so. Wehad about enough time to drink one drink, which, about a half hour. must have been, oh, I'd say 1:45 when we left there and started back up. [5 second pause] And, again, we were cuttin up jackpots and talking.

Bradley: Yeah. Did you go back the same way again?

Smartt: Yeah, same route.

Bradley: Nothing new either.

Smartt: Nothin, not [unintelligible 11:39]. Yeah, I'm a Vietnam Veteran, if there's anything odd or unusual at all that's going on, I'll pick up on it right away, Out of habit anymore.

Bradley: Yep, somebody hiding in the brush, you're gonna...

Smartt: Yeah, I'm going to pick up on anything unusual, if I happen to even catch so much as a glance...

Crim: Your senses are still pretty keen, then?

Smart: Yeah, even with the 4 or 5 beers I had in me, I would have noticed anything that would have stuck out as unusual.

Bradley: Mm-hmm

Smartt: It's the same way if, ya know, you could make all the racket you want in the house and I'd be asleep, but one unnatural sound, sound, and I'm up like that, ya know, like the door opens, the screen door,any unnatural sound at night time, say, like John fell off the couch, uh... and it woke me right up, ya know? It was the night, Friday night.

Crim: Did you, uh, glance... You broached that subject yourelf, you might as well go into about what time did you go to bed that night?

Smartt: I went to bed about ten after two. After, well, see, we keep the medicine put up because of the kids...

Crim: Yeah

Smartt: I had to get John's medicine out, and I gave him two phenobarbitals, and a delantin. [pause] Oh, no. Two phenobarbitals and TWO delantins, to go to bed on. That's what the doctor prescribed.

Bradley: Every night he has to take that?

Smartt: Ya. Once he's out, that's it, ya know.

Crim: Then you went to bed.

Smartt: Yeah, I went to bed. I woke up again around 3:00 o'oclock, to stoke the fire.

Crim: But that 's [unintelligible 13:12] Nothing unusual woke you up, you just...

Smartt: No, that's just a matter of habit. I always wake up around 3:00, 3:30, and stoke the fire. I got up, ya know, checked the house, and, uh, stoked the fire, and ah, matter of fact, I opened the door and went outside and got a piece of wood, came back in.

Crim: Mm-hmm

Smartt: I didn't notice anything.

Crim: Didn't notice or hear anything unusual?

Smartt: Nothing. Not a thing.

Crim: Does John snore?


Bradley: Is that, your woodpile is right out front of the...?

Smartt: Right in front of the house, yeah.

Crim: And John was sleeping [unintelligible, 13:47]

Smartt: No. He was snoring. So...

Crim: So, was it a typical kind of peaceful night around, at that time of morning? I mean, um...

Smartt: Yeah! I didn't notice anything unusual.

Crim: Yeah. Just nice and quiet.

Smartt: About 'quiet', uh... Matter a fact, usually about that time, a train is going by. I didn't notice the train. And then, I go to sleep. Very peaceful and quiet. [4 second pause] You know, like I say, I can't think of anything.

Bradley: Of that crowd that was in the bar, those two dudes were about the only ones that looked, that stood out of place?

Smartt: Out of place. Y'know, well it was unusual to see somebody, to me, buy a case of beer at bar prices. I wouldn't . [Loud crash]. Well, I know, it's not that far into town!

Bradley: Yeah.

Smartt: And, uh... And then that one guy came in, like I said. He was a short, husky guy. Muscle guy. The guy with the real long hair.

Bradley: He was short and husky?

Smartt: Yeah, he was about 5'6, 5'7.

Crim: [unintelligible, 14:56], huh?

Smartt: Yeah. Well, he was a muscular looking guy, you know? Like he'd worked, worked in the woods in the woods or something. [Pause] But he, like I say, he stood out like a sore thumb in that place.

Bradley: You've never seen him around here before?

Smartt: I've never seen that man before, no.

Crim: Did you notice anything unusual about the cars, the vehicles parked, that might have been parked around?

Smartt: When we first approached, there was two hippie-type guys comin out and gettin in a pickup truck. I think it was a Ford, but I didn't pay any attention.

Crim: Coming out of where?

Smartt: The Back Door Lounge. But they were not the calibre of people that would go to the lounge, either. They were long-haired, one of them was bearded... Uhhh... kinda weird lookin guys. But I didn't pay 'em any attention. Uh, but like I say, they didn't look like the clientele that frequents the bar.

Crim: That woulda been about nine when you first went in?

Smartt: Well, it was about ten. An' they were leavin'. They were, they were gettin' back into the truck.

Bradley: A pickup?

Smartt: Yeah, it was a pickup. I did notice that it was a pickup truck, but I didn't, you knnow, like I say, I didn't bother to catch any particulars, except that they were shoddy dressing, ya know, dressed shoddy, and dirty. Long hair, beards...

Bradley: Shoot. I'm at wit's end.

Crim: Probably the bartender, like I, y'know, they'd probably know most of the people that were in there.

Smartt: Jack would, for sure.

Bradley: And do you, do you feel most of them were Keddie residents?

Smartt: No. Well, clientele... Few Keddie residents go to the bar.

Bradley: Cause of the prices or something?

Smartt: Yeah, well... This is, uh... Most of the people around here are pretty poor.

Bradley: Yeah, that's what I, uh, automatilly... There very, very... probably a buck a pop or something.

Smartt: Yeah. Average a dollar a draft for the beer, buck and a half for a drink.

Bradley: Yeah.

Smartt: So there's few Keddie residents that just frequent the bar. They come, you know, like I do, once in a blue moon.

Bradley: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Crim: Might as well get out and have a couple or so, so close.

Smartt: Right. If the car'd a been running, we'd a went to town.

Bradley: Were you, uh, I'm not trying to make a drunk out of you or anything, but did you have enough to drink to where you would consider yourself...

Bradley: Mm-hmm

Smartt: No.

Bradley: ...uh, not having your faculties about you?

Smartt: Matter of fact, I know exactly how much I had to drink. I drank four beers. And 2 cokes. Uh, and John drank all coke.

Crim: That was between 10 and l?

Smartt: Yeah.

Crim: Yeah.

Bradley: That hardly going to get you, hardcore...

Crim: Ho Ho Ho

Bradley: You ought to have been pretty alert.

Smartt: Yeah. I was, I was, you know, pretty well had all my senses about me. John drank cokes until we came back and then had a double shot of CC. That's all he had.

Crim: He probably, was he limiting his drinking pretty much?

Smartt: Yeah. He has to.

Crim: With all the medicine and everything?

Smartt: Yeah. If he takes more than two drinks and then takes those two pills, then you can't move him with a crowbar.

Bradley: I'll bet. Yeah..

Smartt: Well, once he takes his medicine, that's it, [unintelligible17:56, possibly "he's out till morning] anyway.

Crim: Yeah,, and gone until morning?

Smartt: Well he can hardly even walk after that medicine is in.

Bradley: Was your wife still in the sack when you got back?

Smartt: Yeah.

Bradley: In bed?

Smartt: Yeah, when I got home she was just gone. Slept right through.

Crim: Let's go, let's go ahead with the next morning, then. Sunday morning. What time did Justin come home, do you have any idea?

Smartt: It had to have been around 10, 10:30.

Crim: Around 10, 10:30.

Smartt: I was still in bed. Deadhead. The reason I know about it, is he came in, "somebody", you know, uh, "Sue and Mickey", er "Sue and Johnny had been killed, murdered". I thought, you know, 'don't come in and tell that kind of joke, it's not funny'. He said," I'm not kidding, man! Look out the window!". And, sure enough, there was police all over the place. And he's tellin' the details, and I stopped him because I got an eight year old son there. I said, "hey, don’t go into details. We don't want to hear all the gory stuff, you know, skip it", because I didn't want the young kid to hear it. So I hushed him up and uh... Little kids all over the whole neighborhood coming, and, ah... [4 second pause] Ya know, the wife was naturally upset.

Bradley: Yeah, I would imagine so.

Smartt: You bet. So, she went over to find out, you know, whatever she could. And, uh, I went over and told Doug basically what I told you, you know. That I'd went by twice and hadn't noticed... Well, three times, actually four times in the process of the night, and hadn't noticed anything out of place.

Crim: Did anything unusual occur with Justin that day, that you can recollect?

Smartt: Justin's behavior become very eratic. He kept wanting to go back over around the area where the crime had taken place. He uh, he wanted to go to the Seabolts, of all places. You know, usually if they are going to go play they go to the pond. He wanted to go to the Seabolts right next door. I told him to stay around the house, you know, don't go over there. I was concerned, I didn't want him in the way, and I didn't want him around that type of atmosphere. So he insisted on playing in the street, right out at the edge of the driveway, so he was right close to what all was going on. You know. And his behavior has been erratic since then.

Crim: You say erratic, could you go into some kind of detail about how or?

Smartt: I was gone all day yesterday, I was in Reno , but, uh... The reports I get is he's, uh [4 second pause] very hyper. You know, he won't... He's hard to keep settled down. Uh, picks on his little brother, uh, almost like he was enjoying it, you know. Uh, hurting his little brother, and picking on him, uh... [5 second pause] Periods of refusing to eat, uh. Just, uh, you know.

Bradley: Of course that's quite an experience for the kid, you know.

Crim: Mm-hmm.

Smartt: Oh yeah. Just strange behavior. He's just not himself. He's beside himself, his behavior, you know. So... That's another thing I really don‘t know how to deal with there. Bt, uhh...

Bradley: Our problem now is, is sorting out fact from fiction with all these kids.

Smartt: Yeah.

Bradley: You know, the kids his age. And they all...

Crim: Very difficult to talk to kids.

Bradley: And they talk to each other, and they hear something and christ, before you can finish, you don't know if they are imagining half the things, or they have actually seen something, or if they are talking about something they've heard. And there is a pack of kids around this place.

Crim: Did he, at any time during his behavior or anything, did he try to recreate that crime or anything?

Smartt: Yes, yes he has. He tried to recreate it with his little brother, yesterday over there, and uh, the wife watched him. watched him go through it. And he‘s telling Casey, you know, to hold his arm like he had a knife, trying to stab him. But, from what I understand, the people were killed with a hammer. And then, after that, they were stabbed. So... I get the feeling there that he was just, you know, play-acting. That's just his creation. It seems unusual that he knew so much about the condition

Crim: Mm-hmm...

Smartt: ...inside of the house, whenhe was supposed to have been asleep, you know?

Crim: Yeah, that...

Bradley: Was he in a... did you observe him in a position the following morning, over around the Seabolts, where, if the deputies had left the door opened for a moment or two, that he could have looked in there and seen the female?

Smartt: No. The security over there was so tight, that it was just... No way he could have accidentally glimpsed in and seen anything because it's... The security was really tightened down at the time. Uh, these are some of the things, you know, I wonder about. You know, whether or not he did see anything.

Crim: Do you feel like there's a distinct possibility that he could have?

Smartt: Justin's a very light sleeper. I... Often times, he‘s gotten up while I was... Like I said, I stoke the fire ,about 3:30.

Crim: Uh huh.

Smartt: And uh, often times he's been awakened by me stoking the fire and got up and went to the bathroom during that period of time. And I know that he does sleep light.

Crim: Uh huh.

Smartt: And he does have trouble going to sleep sometimes.

Seems to me that, under an excitable period such as what they are under, that, you know, 10 o'clock, laying in bed with your buddy, giggling and this and that... There's a very high possibility that he could have been awake, or alerted to something unusual in that house.

Crim: Yeah...

Smartt: Uhh... [Pause} And he's quiet enough to where he could have [pause] noticed something without me... detecting him.

Bradley: If you've got, you know... We're, uhh, HA! No more better equipped with imagination than you are probably. And I'm sure you have thought about this a lot.

Smart: Yeah.

Crim: Kicked it around in your head, and wondered what happened over there, and why, and all this type of thing, so... just like we are doing.

Smartt: Yeah.

Crim: Uh, the fact that, uh, that they were in there, and the persons who did this, person or persons, we don't know... Why didn't they bother those kids?

Smartt: [Loudly] It's overkill, you know. For one, this is, if it was... [Pause] I know that if I was going to kill somebody [4 second pause] I'd go in, blam, blam, blam and get gone.

Crim: Mm-hmm...

Smartt: I mean, there's no sense in going any farther than that. You go in and you do what has to be done. Make sure the job's done right, and get gone. Uh, there'd be no sense in beatin 'em or mutilatin' 'em, or anything like that. Uh, and a person that would go... that... far, why didn't he hurt those other kids?

Bradley: Yeah, that's of course something we've been trying to find out.

Smartt: Maybe he didn't know that they were there. Maybe he didn't think to look in that bedroom. But if I'm going to kill somebody, I‘m going to check out the whole house, right?

Bradley: Yeah, I would go [unintelligible, 24:54]

Crim: Yeah, I mean, first we've got other factors involved, we've got the girl missing.

Smartt: The girl missing.

Bradley: Right.

Smartt: Why did he snatch the girl? I was thinking, ok... I know this girl is the father's favorite kid. Who I've never met. This is what I've heard from a few conversations, that he is supposed to've been in Connecticut, so they said. Well, maybe the father... maybe the boys tried to stop him, so he had to take them out too because or maybe the boys walked in [pause] on something. And he took them out because of that. Uh, before they realized who it was. We entertained the thought maybe it was Dana that did it, because he's suppose to be mentally disturbed. Both of the boys were experimenting with drugs. This is a known fact. So...

Bradley: What kind of drugs? Just weed, or...?

Smartt: Weed, uh, stuff like that. Maybe a few pills, I don't know. I, I'm at an age, being in the situation, going to school, that I'm at an age where I get both ends of the grapevine, you know.

Bradley: Ohh, ahhh...

Smartt: You know, people... Late 40s, 50ish years old, and at the same time I'm on, what, the 15,16 year olds, you know, in the neighborhood . Right on down to 8.

Bradley: Yeah, yeah, you are better equipped then we are at that, and I'm not so naive to think most teenagers, hell, they screw around with weed, you know.

Smartt: Yeah, right. But, uhh...

Bradley: But if they were into heavy drugs, I don't know, it wouldn't be dealing or something like that. It could be a drug related rip off, I don't know.

Smartt: This is the thing now. Uhh... The one boy, Sue's son, and the son, Dana, [coughs loudly] have to get drugs somewhere. This is only logical, right?

Bradley: But they used a gun.

Smartt: Ahhh! I'd entertained that thought. Was they hit, because they owed, you know? Ah, but then why the overkill?

Bradley: Yeah.

Smartt: There again, if you hit somebody for... over drugs...

Bradley: uhhh...

Smartt: It's something you do fast, and get the hell out, y'know?

Bradley: Yup.

Smartt: Ah [5 second pause] I don't know, I'd like to see the hammer. [pause] I‘ve been in Sue's house. The only hammer I ever noticed comin' out of there was a wooden-handIed one. [3 second pause] Uhh... My hammer is missing.

Bradley: Oh, is it?

Smartt: It always layed outside the door.

Bradley: Mm-hmm?

Smartt: I've have, well I searched and I haven't found it.

Bradley: What type of hammer did you have?

Smartt: A blue handled hammer.

Bradley: Blue handle?

Smartt: Silver.

Bradley: A metal handle?

Smartt: Metal handle, yeah. [4 second pause] Ans i ain't noticed it layin' about. [27:14]

Bradley: huh

Smartt: We can't... On top of that, there's more. Ya know... Cuz of this guy comin' right by my house! Y'know? Geez, you'd think... if that was true, if he would have picked up my hammer, why in the hell didn't he take my hatchet?! [Laughing] Tch... it's a lot better!

Bradley: huh!

Smartt: So, y'know, I keep thinking: How? Why? How could he have got in and out without somebody noticing?! Uh... Well, the kid, you know? A vehicle, a truck, something. If ya pulled in behind, you woulda hafta pass the Seablts' house.

Bradley: Mm-hmm...

Smartt: There's other people livin' back in there, too.

Bradley: yeah...

Smartt: Uh, if he walked in, how can he be carryin' that gitl out, without her raisin' all kinds of hell? Unless she was unconscious. And which way would he've went? And the bridge acros the creek here is locked.

Bradley: It is at night, huh?

Smartt: It's locked, period. And I don't know why. But there's no way he coulda crossed that bridge and got on the other side of the creek

Bradley: What's that? The swinging brdge?

Smartt: Yeah. Uhh... This way here, he couldn't get out this way unless he was in a vehicle. {Pause] It would've been surely noticed. That leaves only one point of exit, and that's the railroad track. Ah, then you're still [unintelligible, 28:24]. There's a lot of big dogs and stuff up in there that would have raised hell. A stranger goin by, y'know?

Bradley: Is that still [unintelligible] are? These are all good points you're making.

Smartt: Uh, by my house, ahh, about the back way, that way, the neighbor's dog would have raised hell. Uh, the owner's dog, in their back yard, would've raised hell, and I would have noticed that!

Bradley: Do they normally bark at...

Smartt: At anything that moves around there of a nighttime. Because I have to call [unintelligible, 28:48], and they bark anytime something goes by over there. Either way. Uh, like I say, the girl down here, across the way at that house, has a big collie dog that barks at strangers.

Crim: Is that the house right below the Seabolts?

Smartt: Yeah. On the other side.

Bradley: Yeah. If somebody had come in and parked behind the victims' house....

Smartt: The [unintelligble] dog would have raised hell, it would seem like. If they'd got out, you know?

Bradley: Yeah.

Smartt: ...they were anywhere close. But they could have pulled in and parked behind the victims' house and nobody would have noticed. Because you can't see it from the street. You can't see that area from the street.

Bradley: No. There's a lot of area down there.

Smartt: Yeah. And it is all dark. Unfortunately, the whole area is dark and uh, but, still in all, as, like I say, how would you get this kid out? Unless she was unconscious?

Bradley: I don't, you've got the same thoughts that I have. We're one and the same damned thing, you know? How could it have happened in a lifetime?

Smartt: Yeah. And if the guy was a nut, and he went to that much trouble to do the overkill, could it be possible he overlooked those boys?

Bradley: Well, it's possible.

Smartt: It's possible, but why? If you are nutty enough to go to that much trouble, you'd think, uh, you'd make a mass out of the thing. Get 'em all.

Bradley: Fortunately he didn't.

Smartt: Yeah. Very fortunately. But, uh, why?

Bradley: We've got a bad enough mess now.

Smartt: Why are they tapin' the hands this way, and, and...

Crim: Do you think that, uh, [5 second pause] if Justin submitted to hypnosis that it might help him? To bring something out that he might be consciously, you know, keeping out of his mind?

Smartt: I don't know. I don't know. I keep thinking myself, gee, you know, I'm very concerned about these two. You know, now that I talk to you guys I see that you're not the kind of guy that says, ok, you know, the bright light and the whole bit,

Crim: [laughs]

Smartt: Ahhh... But uh, I'm very concerned. I went to see Doug the first thing this morning, very concerned because it created serious health problems.

Bradley: Yeah. Sure.

Smartt: Like pressure.

Crim: Yeah, I can relate to that.

Smartt: I'm, uh, I'm under kinda semi-treatment for, you know, stress, anxiety ,myself, and I certainly don't need this you know, and uh...

Crim: You've got a lot of problems at home, uh? Your wife?

Smartt: Yeah. Well...

Crim: We have, we can certainly appreciate that.

Smartt: Been separated. And just, you know, back and forth, on and off.

Crim: If that's, if that's a tactic that, after we've talked to the Sheriff or something, and everybody feels it might be benificial, would you have any particular objection to that?

Smartt: Uh, yes and no. I've got reservations, but not particular objections, you know? Like I say, uh, I am concerned about the kid. I don't want to put any mental stress on him that would make him get more erratic than he is now.

Crim: Yeah.

Smartt: And my concern there is strictly for his health.

Crim: Yeah, we can certainly understand that.

Smartt: If there is any way at all you think he could, you could get more information from him, uh, there's a good possiblity that Justin could have been alerted...

Crim: Mm-hmm

Smart: Maybe just froze ya know.

Crim: Mm-hmm

Smartt: ...or whatever...

Crim: Yeah, he, uh, if...

Bradley: Yeah.

Crim: That would be a hell of a shock to anybody let alone a little kid you know.

[Tape Stops]
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Re: ACCURATE Transcript of Marty's DOJ Interview, 14 Apr 81

Postby rcarlisle001 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:12 am

I'd never heard him mention the tape in the official transcript. Funny how these trained DOJ agents didn't notice the fact that he knew they were bludgeoned and then stabbed. They were encouraging his answers and even putting words in his mouth about the two strangers that showed up in the bar (white t-shirt for one and short hair for the other). How did these agents keep there jobs after this. Such corruption!
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Re: ACCURATE Transcript of Marty's DOJ Interview, 14 Apr 81

Postby Salem » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:18 am

Smartt: Why are they tapin' the hands this way, and, and...

And why didn't the investigators follow up on the above comment? Tapin' the hands what way? Why do you think they taped the hands like that? - Anything. Seems these investigators should have followed up on this, definitely.
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Re: ACCURATE Transcript of Marty's DOJ Interview, 14 Apr 81

Postby dragonfly » Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:22 pm

Lots of strange stuff in the LE interview. -No acknowledgment of Marty saying bludgeoned, then stabbed. -The tape. Not only do they not follow up on what he just said, but actually interrupt his train of thought and change the subject. -Suggesting to someone in an interview that the crime was drug related. Why suggest anything to someone your interviewing, especially so early in an investigation? -A big chunk of the convo is about Justin, but not one question is asked about what he said to his parents regarding that night. There were a few times when they should have stopped Marty and asked him exactly what Justin had said. Example: When Marty said that he had to hush him up, because he was talking about gory stuff. Example: When Marty said, "unusual that he knew so much about the condition, inside the house." Both statements sound pretty important. Seems to go beyond officer ineptitude.

A lot bothers me about the parts of the interview that concern Justin. Marty saying, "So I hushed him up and..." or "...where he could have noticed something without me detecting him." The text shows emphasis/inflection on the word, him, in both statements. Read those statements aloud a few times, like you're the one saying them. Each time I do it, I sure sound pissed at that little fucker. I think that, most telling, are the things that Marty didn't ask or say when he spoke of Justin. While he says he is concerned, there is no depth of feeling. I work with at-risk families and even the most fucked up would be saying things in there initial interview, like: Those cabins are tiny. I know my kid saw or heard something. He's talking about gory stuff. We need help. He's going to need counseling. And we're scared to death. What if these freaks come back to kill our kid, to shut him up, to finish the job? What are you guys doing? What should we do to protect him?

Other things that are bothering me. -When speaking of Justin, he says, "maybe he just froze ya know". Read the whole statement. It's just a weird way to finish his thought. Sounds more like a truth than an idea. -When discussing hypnotism Marty says, "I'm very concerned about these two." It could just mean that he's worried for Casey because he is friends with the Sharp boys, but it could also certainly mean that Casey was present that night. -Lastly, when Marty is making suggestions to who could of done it, he brings up a "nut" due to the overkill and reason the boys room went unchecked. Brings up "someone nutty enough to.." Deflection from someone who knew them being the killers. Is the staging, too, as simple as that? Make it look like a nutball went nutzo?
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Re: ACCURATE Transcript of Marty's DOJ Interview, 14 Apr 81

Postby leenie963 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:15 pm

This entire interview stinks. No follow up questions when Marty incriminates himself time and again, especially with "And he's quiet enough (Justin) to where he could have noticed something without me ...detecting him" and there's this response that shows the kid gloves were on and the fix was in:

Bradley: If you've got, you know...We're, uhhh, HA! No more better equipped with imagination than you are probably. And I'm sure you have thought about this a lot."

What. The. Got. Damn.

Gets better with this one while discussing Tina:

Smart: Yeah. And it is all dark. Unfortunately, the whole area is dark and uh, but, still in all, as, like I say, how would you get this kid out? Unless she was unconscious?
Bradley: I don't, you've got the same thoughts I have. We're one and the same damned thing, you know?

I'm surprised you could hear anything on the tape from Bradley due to Marty's balls bouncing off chin.

Not one question about how Marty is so intimate with details of the murders themselves; guess they figured it was from Justin acting out what he saw but hey, who can trust kids, right?! (insert eye roll) At every opportunity these bozos gave Marty the out, led him where they wanted him. While he didn't pay attention, he describes a man in Levis, wearing a t-shirt, with a folding buck knife sheathed in his belt. But what color shirt was he wearing? Dunno, it was dark. Wonder if he didn't realize Justin saw a Swiss army type pocket knife with the killers...surprised he didn't say HIS was missing along with his freakin' hammer.

In three piece suits going to a dive bar in the boonies? C'mon! Goes home to change but says they put their jackets back on? This was 1981, not the fashion era of Miami Vice.

Bradley: But they used a gun
Smart; Ahhh! I'd entertained that thought. Was they hit, because they owed, you know? Ah, but then why the overkill?

Tell me how in the hell Smart knows so much detail if he wasn't there? How? Even mentioning the taped hands! Who sits back and thinks about how your neighbors were murdered with such detail and accuracy?

Smart talking about seeing DT first thing in the morning due to his concern because it created serious health problems. He was NOT talking about Justin, he was talking about himself. Gearing up to play the rubber room card. Then he turns it right back around by declaring his concern is strictly for Justin's health. If my kid saw something as horrible as murder, my happy ass would have already been to a child shrink, getting all the help available. Not hypnotized, not staying with DT for a month, not telling my kid to hush it up and not give me the gory details. If Marty didn't get the details from Justin, where the friggin' hell did he get them?! Argh!

Damn it this case frustrates me to no end.
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Re: ACCURATE Transcript of Marty's DOJ Interview, 14 Apr 81

Postby dmac » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:38 pm

There's so many revelations once the 'errors' and deliberate omissions are reversed.

Marty not only says he knows they were killed with hammers, but that the use of knives was postmortem and, therefore, staging. He CLEARLY states they were MURDERED by hammer, and the knives came out LATER.Where have I heard that before? And before you get any ideas, I received the full audio of the interview just yesterday, and had it transcribed and live after five straight hours of listening and typing. I'd never heard any of the killers admit to the staging before.

Given Marty brought up Johnny and Dana's drug use (compare the real version of that passage to the 'official' one, they're from two different planets!), it WAS Crim who brought up the possibility of a drug hit-- but was that just to see how Marty would react? And, Oh! How Marty (over) reacted. He pins it on Dana, then Tina's dad (making Tina the target), then pins it on Johnny and Dana as targets for their deep involvement in drugs (he says they were experimenting with pot, then immediately says he first thought it was a DRUG HIT INVOLVING GUNS!)...

But Marty never mentions Sue as the target?! Yep, she was HIS target at least.

And look how stupid his comments are about Dana as perp, given his knowledge of the taping, bludgeoning, postmortem staging. Dana killed everyone, did something with Tina, then came back to 28, taped himself up, strangled himself to death, then bludgeoned himself postmortem and tied himself to Johnny? Right, Marty... Keep talking.

And he does...

Yes, dfly, Crimely are supposedly most interested in determining what Justin knows, what he saw, yet shut down every opportunity when Marty, and Bo, began talking specifics of what Justin had mentioned or recreated. Instead, in Marty's case, they shut down those avenues, but ask him if there's the slightest chance Justin could have peeked in the front door of 28!

Such corrupt asholes!

And, trust me, when you actually hear Marty talking about Justin, there's no affection. Instead, it's multiple instances of Marty certain Justin saw him committing murder in 28, and not wanting Justin to be hypnotized. As for Casey, more and more I get the feeling that the reason all the boys are alive is because Casey, not Justin, was also in the room with Greg and Rick.

Leene: They spend so much time contemplating whether or not Justin could have seen anything, that it totally conflicts with Marty's knowledge of so many particulars of the crime scene: Tape, hammers, knives for postmortem staging,insane the boys were left alive- Justin HAD to have seen Marty, so why would a nut like Marty leave those boys alive? Marty's own damned words.

And, yes, his details on their costume change (after they'd begun the attacks at 28, Tina had screamed, and blood had been spilled) is very telling. If we had reports on what witnesses at the bar remember of Bo, Marty, and Loon, there would be denim in that picture. At the very least, they tossed some denim over the fence at 28 on the way back to the bar, and changed after they'd returned to finish the crimes. Which begs the question, who other than Loon was left in charge of 28 while the BM Boys re-established their post-scream alibis?

Yes, the new revelation about Crim's mention of the gun, and Marty's exuberant reaction, is mind-numbing.

The most frustrating thing about the case, for me, is the amount of clear-cut corruption by LE. The most frustrating thing about presenting this case to the public is the mind-boggling stupidity and willful blindness of the average John Q Public who claim interest in the truth.
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Re: ACCURATE Transcript of Marty's DOJ Interview, 14 Apr 81

Postby Pandora » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:40 am

DMAC why do you think everyone (Sheila, Seabolt, the boys etc) would hide that Casey was there? I apologize if this has been discussed, I have been reading every chance I get, however, I have a long way to go.
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Re: ACCURATE Transcript of Marty's DOJ Interview, 14 Apr 81

Postby dmac » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:21 pm

The boys were forced into silence. Greg, too young to know better, tried telling the truth so, among other things, Crimely simply turned the tape off at the beginning of their 'interview' with him, and blamed it on a tape malfunction. Justin tried telling the truth at the start, but apparently soon realized not only the sheriff, Marty's and Loon's pal, but ALL of LE were siding with the killers. Even Jamie, who first said he walked into 28 Sat morning, was somehow intimidated into never repeating the truth.

If these guys- just kids at the time- could be scared, intimidated, forced into silence about what they heard, saw, and even from naming the people they KNOW to be killers, then dropping the fact Casey was there- if he was- is chicken feed in comparison to everything else.

Think about it, though. Casey was friends with the Sharp boys, not Justin. Yet we're to not only swallow the idea Justin was asked to sleep over, Casey was not but left alone at home all night while the adults from 26 were next door committing murder... but that Loon or Marty cared enough about Justin to leave him alive? Loon's fave kid was Casey, she could barely stomach Justin. So much so, Justin was forced into that crime scene.

Marty didn't think Justin may have "seen me... without me detecting him". No. Justin was summoned from that bedroom.

I don't know if Casey was at 28 or not, but it answers so many more questions than it creates, and makes more sense on the whole if he were.
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Re: ACCURATE Transcript of Marty's DOJ Interview, 14 Apr 81

Postby dmac » Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:58 pm

A couple things that I've meant to add to this thread, but keep forgetting:

Crimely told Bo they'd point out 28 when they walked him back to 26; they couldn't have walked him back to 26 until AFTER Marty's interview, so where was Bo during Marty's hour-long interview? Keeping a seat at that table warm, or standing outside of the diner, whipping his dick around in the breeze?

As for the fact Sue died by bleeding out not her chest cavity, and Marty implying the knives were brought out AFTER the hammers, it's possible but not likely that the killers thought she was already dead. The tricklings of blood in opposite directions in the autopsy photos show she was moved around. It also shows there was little bleeding from those wounds, which would be the case if it was all collecting internally. Even the blood stains on her terry cloth nightie aren't much help, as the ME noted holes in Johnny's clothes approximate to his chest knife wounds, but notes no such holes in Sue's clothing.

I think Marty is saying that the hammers came first, then the knives. Most knife wounds were postmortem, and the postmortem bludgeoning of Dana was not from a hammer, but a tube-like weapon (table leg) perhaps used to mask the fact they brought a rifle to their 'unplanned' massacre.

However he states it, he's the ONLY ONE we've found on record to say the hammers were used first, then the knives were brought out. ASSHOLE MURDERER.
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Re: ACCURATE Transcript of Marty's DOJ Interview, 14 Apr 81

Postby Billyalshef » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:27 pm

Bradley: I don't, you've got the same thoughts that I have. We're one and the same damned thing, you know? How could it have happened in a lifetime?

Yes they are the same , they are asshole criminals and murderers! Very leading questions , in fact they lead him away from his implicating statements!
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Re: ACCURATE Transcript of Marty's DOJ Interview, 14 Apr 81

Postby dmac » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:25 pm

Today, it was 100% confirmed Marty lied about the swinging bridge being locked. A followup report re: Doug G crossing the swinging bridge absolutely confirms the bridge was unlocked both times he crossed, including at around 2 AM.

Further evidence that my theory from YEARS ago about the killers taking Tina out over that bridge to hide her body till morning is proving true. Also, my belief the killers also disposed of the pink pantsuit at the same time.
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Re: ACCURATE Transcript of Marty's DOJ Interview, 14 Apr 81

Postby leenie963 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:53 am

dmac wrote:Today, it was 100% confirmed Marty lied about the swinging bridge being locked. A followup report re: Doug G crossing the swinging bridge absolutely confirms the bridge was unlocked both times he crossed, including at around 2 AM.

Further evidence that my theory from YEARS ago about the killers taking Tina out over that bridge to hide her body till morning is proving true. Also, my belief the killers also disposed of the pink pantsuit at the same time.

That pantsuit has always bothered me; location when found, why a belt with tramp stamp v cut in the back, material that billows/flows with movement. Is it possible Tina was wrapped up in that pantsuit to stave off blood flow? If memory serves wasn't bits of faded pink cloth found with Tina's skeletal remains? Time to revisit my bookmarks!
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