Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby joe_mcplumber » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:22 pm

So here's my contribution to the sort of nonsensical post abuse that upsets dmac.

I knew Marty through Dee and from bumping into him on the FRC campus. I did not like him. I didn't have a reason for not liking him, i just didn't. I reckoned him a feckless twit, and a wuss. So i told him as much, publicly and often.

Marty never said anything in my presence, of the sort that Nina says that he said about women and little girls. But Nina says that he said it, so he said it. To my mind that only makes him more of a wuss, since he didn't say stuff like that around people who might call him out on it.

My first thought on the suspicion that Marty did this murder was "Naw, he didn't, because he is a wuss". I did not think he would have the cojones nor the wherewithal, to handle those boys, not even with help. I expected violence of such intensity would set him weeping in a fetal position, not walking around casually and being his usual dipshit self.

I've no maths to show for this of course. It was only my impressions. But the thing is, for all the public teasing and, frankly, bullying that i did to him, he never tried to kill me for my impudence as one might expect from a psychopathic killer. Nor did he send his enforcer buddy to try to kill me, as one might expect from a psychopath with no balls. The worst he ever did was smirk at me like "you'll get yours" but that only made him look silly. I'm no badass, now or then. If he wouldn't take me on, how would he handle two teenage boys AND an angry mom?

I can explain away most of his self-incriminations as probable self-inflation. What better way to mitigate his wussness than to have people suspect he is a murderer? His primary motivation at the time was to keep hold of his wife. Many men do that with fear, so Marty might have seized the opportunity to lend his self some extra fearsomeness. You've seen, here on this forum, the lengths to which people will go to be a part of this "thing". Marty didn't have to go to any length at all because Marilyn brought it right to him and made him into the central thing, of the thing. Notoriety being more useful than obscurity, why drift at the edge of events when one can be the very center of attention?

Marilyn, meanwhile, was most motivated to get the hell away from him, and initiated and leveraged the suspicion to that end. Oops, for Marty, but love makes people stupid so it probably makes stupid people even stupider.

Then all his emoting at the Meekses about "going back to finish", his hysterics at the jail, his hints in his letters and phone calls, etc., could all be the behavior of someone who felt free to incriminate his self and exploit his notoriety because he was safe in the knowledge that he didn't do it. Plus i never heard what was the egregious sin that Sue did, to elevate her to the central cause of his marital problems and create motive to kill her. I think Marilyn was the primary source of that story, as well? And he passed the polygraph, for whatever that's worth.

All that said, i still believe that Marty and Bo did this murder. It's just that i mostly believe it because that's what was mostly said, and it was said first by Marilyn. But i also kinda like to believe it, because i only have one alternate theory which doesn't involve anyone i know nor any motive i can think of. That would leave a senseless tragedy even more senseless and tragic, so it's more comforting i suppose to think i know who did it and why.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby dmac » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:29 am

This deserves a longer reply, but I'm on vacation, dammit!

Why was Marty threatening lives JUST PRIOR TO the murders? Same reason he was threatening to return and finish the job: He murdered four innocent people. And he made these threats to several other people, not just those you mentioned- and others you failed to (Wade).
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby joe_mcplumber » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:14 pm

No, no, i'm sorry, please don't feel you should respond to me. Vacate. Chill. Drink nog. Yell at me in capital letters, later.

Meantime, i did mention Wade, by inference, with my "jail hysterics" comment. But that incident was after the murders and so over the top self-incriminating, in the presence of law enforcement, that i have serious trouble taking it seriously.

What i didn't mention was my second thought, which was "oh shit, and i just asked him the other day, how he could tell which end of his self to put his panties on in the morning". It was a bit nerve wracking to think i'd been provoking a psycho but i think that kinda goes to my point. I don't recall people regarding Marty as a scary sort of dude until after he was established as a scary sort of dude. And then he really played it up.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby kmik » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:24 pm

First I would like to say that NONE of us on this forum (hopefully) KNOW what happened in Cabin 28. So there really should be no reason to get upset over anyone's speculation. I have long believed the Marty Theory. But I feel like much of that is based on the confession to the counselor. Josh even said himself in a post back in 2011:

by jhancock » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:43 pm
But one cannot provide reasons for the possibility of Marde's innocence while overlooking the confession. In my mind, the confession is a crucial part of any argument one makes regarding Marde, whether one thinks he is innocent or guilty.


In 2008 ,after his first documentary, on the old forum ,Josh admitted that the complaints about the film being one-sided and only looking at 2 suspects were true - and that was because that was what the people he was interviewing at the time were saying . He went on to say that he no longer believed Marty and BO committed the murders. Yet after the 2nd documentary and the confession he was all in.

Do we just disregard the fact that Chuck and Henry placed themselves in Keddie on 4-12-81 with Henry eventually confessing to a roommate of being in Cabin 28 that night? This confession of being in Keddie was not coerced by the police because at the time they interviewed Chuck they didn't even know he (let alone Henry) was even in Keddie. They are the ones who told on themselves.

Karl S. is someone who was around 34 years old, lived with his mother, did not live in Quincy or Keddie. He was supposedly in Keddie that night because he had followed 2 cars there, driven by Sue's house, driving on around and parking by the Keddie Bridge at the pond, waiting on the 2 cars to come out. The part of him being parked by the bridge has to be true because Timothy D confirmed that in his statement:

810412-0000c Timothy Dembosz leaves the Back Door Bar and enroute, sees a dark color, square shaped van parked across the Keddie bridge by the pond. <Timothy Dembosz / Crim>

It is worth noting that Karl nor Henry would be in the documentary - and claimed along with Chuck that they had been harassed by the police. Really? Well I guess they that's what happens when YOU place yourself near a crime scene.

There are too many other people that could be looked at as far as having some kind of knowledge of what went on. We have looked at everything possible, from the information on this forum, about Marty. Marty and Bo were carny guys - not mafia men. If Bo had ANY real connections to the mafia in 1981 (or ever) I am pretty certain he would have been lounging around on their couch instead of Marty Smartt's. We are told to present the "facts" - so we get our "facts", from the only place available to us on the forum. We tried to explore the Phillip story (which could have connected Marty) but we were told Phillip was a drunk. We tried to explore Donna W. saying she saw Sue and she was dressed to go out(which could have lined up with her possibly going out with Marilyn, Marty, and Bo) we were told Donna was crazy. We tried to find out why the DOJ or PCSO would possibly cover for Marty or Bo - only to see, for ourselves, that too much on MARTY and BO were left in the files. I could go on and on.

Joe you made a good point in your above post:

Plus i never heard what was the egregious sin that Sue did, to elevate her to the central cause of his marital problems and create motive to kill her.


Well neither have I and I am sure Sue was not the only person in the neighborhood Marilyn was telling her problems to. This is from the PON list:

LYNT, JUDITH
Lived Keddie before, didn't know Sue but Ricky & Tina came by often, saw Martin Smartt on way to Portola 4/12/81, moved Rock Creek from Hy Walke's, Marilyn Smartt used to find refuse there when fighting with husband Martin Smartt
<BRADLEY>


There are so many things that could be explored but what good is it if you can't even present it to the forum?

My sister and I (under KMIK) finally joined this forum back in January hoping to be able to work together with other people who, like us, had no idea what happened - but hoping to explore all possibilities. Never would we ever have imagined that we would end up feeling like we were in first grade with all the name calling to boot - all because of a different view or opinion. Truly unbelievable and very disappointing.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby dmac » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:17 pm

I have little doubt that Loon, Dee, Spenceypoo, Tony, and certain scummier aspects of PCSO have visited the forum so, YES, plenty of people "on this forum KNOW what happened in Cabin 28."

There is reason behind not promoting brainless, wild, and unsupportable speculation. This site and forum is not for regressing down the rabbit holes of the past, or for burying the logical, fact-based work of others with careless, thoughtless vomit. There are plenty of the same old stupid, outdated theories found in the older threads of this forum, and the "like" button is meant for people to agree with things already stated without having to bloat the board with iteration. If you want to revisit or bolster old posts with facts, so be it- but you haven't done anything close to that, kmik.

This case and forum deserve posters who can think critically and use logic and facts when posting. Even the "speculation" section of the forum is not a black hole where ridiculous theories go to thrive. If posts in the Spec section don't pass muster, they should not go ignored, much less be celebrated as "free speech". BS is BS, no matter how one attempts to dress it up.

Quoting the shifting stances of the predatory turdwagon, Josh Hancock, exposes another of your flaws. You don't seem to understand the meaning of what you're quoting, anyway. You can't see Josh is a coward, and changed his tune (just as Jesse did) when a churlish liar named Spenceypoo Smartt threatened to sue anyone who dared mention the name of his murderer brother. When I first took over Josh's site, I banned a wide spectrum of IP addresses from where Spencey lives, meaning he got a 403 error when visiting Josh's site. Spencey immediately and stupidly claimed he'd succeeded in threatening the site into closing down (he didn't understand the "403: Access Forbidden" code meant only he'd been banned). Josh's tiny balls eventually descended back to his scrotum and he once more felt safe calling Marty a suspect, but I was the one that eventually rescinded Josh's rule that Marty had to be referred to as "POI". Josh was and remains invertebrate.

Josh has/had tons of stolen documents, and they certainly do NOT only mention Marty and Bo. I certainly wish I had full access to the documents, including whatever Josh stole/destroyed, but I won't and never will. Nor will you, so get over it. We're lucky to have what we do, so stop pissing and moaning and claiming everything is about Marty. What drivel!

We've looked at Walke, Thompson, Spang, time and again. You dug them up a few times, too, we even went over them again more or less together. When Timeline C was rediscovered, we revisited many things. What has come out in the recent washings that wasn't there before? Sweet fuckall! What has recently emerged that shifts our core understanding that Walke and Spang are wastes of space and liars? SFA! What has suddenly made us regard them as highly-cherished eyewitnesses, or perhaps suspects? SFA! Thompson won't talk, and the TeamJosh interview with Spang fell through when someone contacted Karl shortly before his appointment with the camera.

There are many other people to be looked at, and they are mentioned many times on this forum- I've put up sections and case files dedicated to these arseholes. Why is it you never look at them, but prefer to dig up sideline scumbags like Walke, Spang, etc? In your "independent evaluations" of Philip and Donna, what new information have you discovered that proves either of them suddenly valid sources of info? SFA? EXACTLY. Yet you accuse us of ignoring them when we have repeatedly looked and FOUND NOTHING. Don't act like these people have been ignored or that we haven't painstakingly looked. You've looked and also found nothing, so don't try pissing on our shoes about it. Complete bullocks.

Dembosz' account lines up with Spang AND possibly with the green van loitering around 28 that night. I'm not saying Spang wasn't in Keddie, but that his account is 99% bullshit meant to whitewash the whys and hows of his actions/whereabouts that night- just as Walke/Thompson did. Involved in the murders? That's a moronic leap of faith in zero facts that you're willing to make, but don't expect others to take that plunge with you. You seem to be saying anyone who believes BMM/PCSO were involved is a lemming, yet expect others to buy into your unsupported nonsense with the fervor of the brainwashed. Hypocritical, perhaps?

Your blissful ignorance of Bo and the mafia is sad but hilarious. It again illustrates you don't grasp a lot of the obvious things going on, and why I and others doubt your deductions, conclusions, basic math, etc. Stick to genealogy, you've floundered almost everywhere else. Nothing wrong with that, but don't expect me or others to ignore your bad posts.

kmik, since you want everything wrapped up in a perfect package with a nice bow and dismiss anything that isn't, please look into the Manson murders. It's coming up on 50 years that Manson and some of the other killers have been incarcerated, so you'd better explain to us exactly why and how each of them were involved. Otherwise, we'd better set them free, as they don't fit your need for a perfectly clean explanation. Same goes for every murderer who claims innocence- those cases can't possibly meet your exacting standards for burden of proof.

"There are so many things that could be explored but what good is it if you can't even present it to the forum?"
What have you tried to present on the forum that has met resistance, other than crazy-ass, unfounded speculation, willful ignorance of facts, and half-assed attempts to pass off deceptive conclusions as fact? That's not a presentation, it's just another wankfest of wind. We've applauded your research, but that doesn't mean we'll quietly accept your posts filled with outdated nonsense. As for namecalling, if you don't understand the difference between 'idiotic' and 'idiot', you've just proved yourself to be the latter.

As multiple people have asked if you're meankitty posting under a fake account (many asked when you first posted, and again with your recent, woefully bad posts), I would recommend you visit and join the forum she started a few years back. It could be right up your alley. She takes the case [and knowledge] back to the Dark Ages so she can party like it's 1999. Full of ignorance and outdated, debunked crap, she thinks Marty and Bo and PCSO are innocent and great. Her forum flourished for a few weeks, filled with posts by people who liked to play fast & loose with facts and insanely stupid spec, who patted themselves on the back for being able to say anything they wanted and for how nice they were to everyone. Last I saw, meankitty was the only poster in over six months. In fact, her forum was deleted today due to 'inactivity'.

If you still want to discuss the Keddie case with any reasonable intelligence, I guess that leaves you with only one game in town. I recommend if you want to bitch & moan or cry foul about what you feel is 'censorship', try posting something where facts are used rather abused. Again, you've shown critical thinking and theory are not your strong suit, so don't rely on illogical horseshit without expecting it to be called out. First grade? If you've ever tried reading the long-form blocks of text you've sent me that were supposed to pass as emails, you'd agree third grade is about right. That's why I gave up trying to read them, and told you to stop emailing me. The fact you kept doing it put you back in first grade. Point your fingers at whichever of you was doing that crap, not at me or others on the forum. You dug the hole, and every recent post indicates you're aiming for China.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby joe_mcplumber » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:35 am

kmik wrote:I have long believed the Marty Theory. But I feel like much of that is based on the confession to the counselor.

I have some problems with that story, but most have been hashed over in this forum so i won't hash it again. I'll only say i have a reflexive distrust of any story with the word "Cheeseman" in it. But that's just me, and i can't find a way to discredit the story on account of the Cheeseman word, despite my best efforts.

Anyhow "The boys got a ride from bad people" isn't only just the *other* theory, it was all along the default, quasi-official theory. To my recollection Bo and Marty were never named in mainstream media, so if you asked people with only a passing familiarity with the case, who haven't been to this forum or seen the videos, i suspect it's the theory most folk would offer to this day. I'm thinking to go to Quincy soon, it'd be interesting (even if useless) to test. But then again dmac's frustration might be confirmation enough.

Sorry to say, i haven't done all the reading you suggested, so i can't comment on these other PONs who may or may not be involved. On the subject of my OP, clearly we all have differing perspectives and clearly Marty had different sides to show to different people. But one thing that's long bothered me is, while Marty did not strike me as being the "sort" (if that even means anything) to do something like these murders, i did a lot of hitchhiking around Plumas and i had opportunity to meet a lot of scumbags who very much did strike me as just exactly the sort. Most such, er,, "people" were from the foothills area... Pulga, Oroville, Grass Valley, etc. It's forever been a popular destination for criminals from the valley ducking out on warrants or bonds and LE still periodically does "sweeps" through the area, to clean it out and reset the baseline criminal element.

Feather Falls is a beautiful area which i rarely visited because you need a car to get there but if you let your car sit parked, you'd invite a busted window and a stolen stereo, and that's on the relatively benign end of the continuum of bad shit. There was a time, i don't remember if it was the Forest Service or BCSO or maybe both, put out public warnings and even put up signs around the lake that said "high crime area" or something of the sort, and pretty much advised, you're on your own out there. Of course plenty tourists get away with it, and maybe the situation has improved, but personally i wouldn't go there unarmed. It doesn't at all surprise me for two bodies to be discovered in proximity there, and i don't have to imagine a possible connection between them because i can more easily imagine more than one murderer about.

All of which is to say, i am absolutely certain that people bad enough to do this thing, were loose in the area at the time. As far as i am concerned, (bearing in mind, i have been massively duped), i didn't know any such sort of people personally except one guy who seemingly became such a person after the fact.

So circumstantially, it's not outrageous conjecture. It IS, however, conjecture which pretty much by premise, cannot go anywhere with the evidence at hand. So i understand that aspect of dmac's frustration as well. And while i don't know any those other folks you mentioned intimately, i would still object if they were subject to defamation without a solid line of reasoning to back it up.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby IPO » Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:45 pm

This "Mary didn't do it thread" because he was just a wuss and a carny man make me laugh. How often do I hear neighbour's of someone arrested for murders (often multiple these days) say on television "he was quiet but I didn't think him capable", "he kept pretty much to himself" "he always nodded when I said hello". Too funny. These guys commit murder because they're screwed up. We'll never know the why, they're psychopaths.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby joe_mcplumber » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:24 am

True, and for each like that there's another whose neighbors say "We just KNEW that wacko was gonna lose it someday".

I'm just offering my perspective because for one reason from reading this forum i might imagine Marty to be eight feet tall with fangs and claws, scaring the hell outa absolutely everyone. I might wonder, how the heck could anyone fail to take his threats seriously. And then i might make a premise of his scariness and proceed to speculate from there with disregard and contempt for possibilities other than those i expect to follow from my bias. (No, not really, i might probably not do that. But i think that sort of thing might can happen).

I didn't say i couldn't be wrong about my perceptions but i will say that more than a few people other than me perceived similarly. It's not really my point, in and of itself, what me or anyone else thought of Marty. My own general premise being, i think this forum needs some different perspectives. The forum boss may disagree with me, but he hasn't yet explicitly told me to stop offering them.

Gosh i hope i didn't come off as saying i didn't believe Marty was capable, just because that's what i said.

But anyhow if you don't care about contrary perspectives or if you prefer confirmation of existing ones, my picture of Marty does align with his confession. I.e., a wuss who would only attack a woman and a little girl, i.e., a side of Marty which the females around him apparently knew all too well.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby dmac » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:42 pm

I sent in a support ticket a few minutes back. asking them not to delete meankitty's account or forum:

    Board URL: keddiecoldcase.freeforums.org
    Subject: Forum About to Be Deleted for Inactivity
    Description:
    An enemy of mine (her UN is meankitty) runs the forum, keddiecoldcase.freeforums.org. I don't like her or her work, but I think it would be a shame if you were to delete her forum due to 'inactivity'.

    Her forum is about an unsolved mass murder, the Keddie Murders, and I run the main site/forum dedicated to the crimes (keddie28.com). I don't like her, her conclusions, or her being a blind apologist for the killers and the corrupt police that covered up the murders.

    Having said that, I feel it's important her forum survive.

    I'm not in contact with the admin, but I feel relatively secure her recent lack of logging in is due either to health issues or temporary lack of access to the internet.

    Please don't delete her account or forum.

    dmac

The forum was restored almost immediately, and I was sent this reply:

    Hello there,

    It's very nice of you to report this for your enemy. I've restored your enemy's forum :)

    http://keddiecoldcase.freeforums.org/

    You'll need to make a couple posts real quick so that it doesn't disappear again.

Unfortunately, I don't have an account on her forum, so I can't post there. If any of you can, please do- a simple post will suffice, just anything showing the forum is active.

I'm about to send out the overdue Newsletter, then I'll make another post and call it an evening.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby dmac » Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:05 am

Joe's been on the forum for a couple years now. His role has developed, in my eyes, as his posts have indicated an increasing willingness to convey his knowledge of the crimes, those involved, etc; and his understanding of the intricacies, implications, and glaring imperfections of how info is developed and disseminated via them interwebs [read: us].

In tonight's newsletter, I described Joe's OP on this thread as "Deep Background on Marty". In journo parlance, 'deep background' is a term for off-the-record info meant to enlighten the researcher on The Bigger Picture. It's been a long time since I read "All the Presidents Men", but I recall the term 'Deep Throat', the code name for FBI Assoc. Director Felt, stuck because it was a comedic jumble of "deep background" and the porn movie. It's important to note Deep Crushed Velvet said "follow the money" and "forget the myths the media's created... The truth is, these are not very bright guys and things got out of hand", which is EXACTLY where the Keddie case has been since April 12, 1981. Felt was an FBI bigwig talking about asshats in DC running all America, not podunk Keddiestone Kops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vETxuL7Ij3Q

As grey readers know, I've received much privately-sent info, and it's all off-the-record unless I'm given permission otherwise, or can develop it independently. Many of these people talk to me, then disappear. Some come back, most never do. Few post on the forum, and many of them stopped because they think they may be identified if they keep talking.

Joe is giving Deep Background on the case, except it's not off-the-record. And it's not solely about the environment, the layout, the culture, the ennui, the Bigger Picture... He's talking directly and indirectly about those involved- names we know and perhaps don't, and includes personal recollections, experiences, and multiple perspectives he's had over decades.

Joe's is an impressive CV to be found on this forum. His posts come with a wicked sense of humor and knowledge of language, which has led to misunderstandings and hiccups. When reading his posts, don't always be blinded by the seemingly small pictures he sometimes crafts. He's not just talking firsthand, even if it seems he is. It's the people, the times, the cliques, the grapevine, the conflicting accounts, everything. He's also giving us a required bashing for not paying attention to what we've had little access to: the flipside of our distilled 'knowledge'. We often see glimpses via his personal reflections and understandings of the Bigger Picture, yet we typically stampede over them for a bigger point to argue.

In honor of the "Squirrel on Every Stick" Henry IV/Hoover homage, may I proffer Joe the chic, new nom de plume, 'Reap Gloat'.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby joe_mcplumber » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:43 pm

I can't say how very flattering is my new pen name. Really. I can't.

But thanks for acknowledging my efforts for what they are intended to be.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby Chichibcc » Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:26 am

Thanks for getting MK's forum restored, Dmac. I have an account on there, but I don't remember what my password is, so I'll have to reset it so I can log on.

I can't remember the last time I was on her forum--it has always been so slow there, and MK herself hasn't posted in quite some time, but I understand that doing so can sometimes be difficult for her, not having a computer at home; I hope she is OK.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby SammieJo » Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:30 pm

I think one thing that needs to be considered when looking at this crime & certain peoples possible motives is the fact it was perpetrated by more than one person. There have been quite a few criminal cases where by some fuckery of the universe 2 or more people come together and one of the people behaves in a way they would probably not have behaved on their own, sure they may have been fucked in the head a bit but meeting a *dare I say kindred spirit* they are somehow motivated to kill because they have another person to validate these violent thoughts or tendencies, Karla Homolka comes to mind right off the top of my head (She wanted to keep her man happy for whatever personal reason, abuse, daddy issues, fear of being alone or whatever) After reading about the case I can say I honestly doubt Karla would have helped/sought out rape/murder victims had she not met a sicko like Paul Bernardo, she's been out of prison since 2005 & doesn't seem to have killed or helped kill anyone since,I've read about several male/male duos names just are not coming to mind right now. Call it male bravado or some such bull shit- there is always the possibility that Marty participated in a murder because he wanted to prove to himself *among other reasons* to loon or Bo that he was just as gangsta as Bo. Also this is someone who was super buddy/buddy with the sheriff & that could have also given him a false sense of being a badass/ entitlement to act deranged.
Anyone willing to kill a mother & 3 kids is clearly not a mentally balanced individual anyway.
IMHO child killers are pussies anyway by default.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby dmac » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:00 pm

I recall, in my first days of looking at the case, the consistent story was Bo was subservient to Marty ("followed him around like a puppy dog" is the standout description). Once Aus and I found the real Bo, his name(s), and started uncovering his bg, the subservient story was reversed. This was Sept 2010.

My belief back then, and to this day, is that Bo was a father figure, a mentor, a hero to Marty, and Marty went to great lengths to impress Bo, doing cocky things he never had the balls to do on his own. It's a case of 1+1=4. This theory (read this post) was substantive two years prior to Princess being told by the VA that Bo was never a patient (in or out) at Reno, rendering the years of BS about a happenstance Meeting of the Mindless at the mental ward complete twaddle. Yes, this is also when Loon told of a brand new memory: Although she'd said time and again she'd never visited Marty at the VA, she told Princess that she first met Bo hanging out with Marty when she visited Smartt there.

Yes, Bo was USAF- he was a truck driver for the duration, spending most of his time in the Far East. He re-upped twice and, just after re-upping the second time, went AWOL for 179 days- leaving him unaccounted for when Molly Zelko was whacked. The Sharps' dad was USN, reportedly constantly deployed as maintenance (subs, I believe). The Sharps were stationed in Biloxi in 75, residing in Gulport. Bo had family in the area, and was married in Gulfport in 1975. After his supposed "last fling" with Marty in 1988, Bo was again holed up at the wacky ward of Gulfport VA. He listed these same relatives as his residence/caretakers at that time, just before leaving for Chicago to 'die' months later. Despite the grave doubts of yet another peculiar coincidence in the Keddie case, there is nothing more than these slim facts putting killer near victim at any time prior to the Sharps moving to Plumas from CT. [As an aside, there was a dual USN USAF installation in Biloxi, including Keesler AFB. It doesn't show up in Bo's records as anywhere he was trained or stationed, so the going belief is the proximity to relatives, the VA, and perhaps the family root of Nawlins, is why Bo chose to 'hide out' there. Likewise, just because he was married in Gulfport does not mean he or his bride were ever residents of the area. We've found zilch on the bride, other than her name.]

From understanding the Bigger Picture of Marty's deteriorating home situation in March 81, I think many aspects regarding motives will link back to fallout from the loss of his job. He had obviously already been fired in order for him to have the free time to be an inpatient at Reno, and free lodging in 26 had apparently been part of his compensation as a cook at the Lodge restaurant. I don't know what his situation was with the Albins, if they'd already been given an eviction notice or if Marty and Loon were scrambling for money to not only survive but pay the new, extra rent burden. Loon did say rent had been paid through the end of May, but we don't know exactly what that means (had they paid rent, or had the Albins cut them slack, or was May 31 an already-established eviction date which they knew of prior to the murders?). If an eviction had been pending, the last place we'd expect to see it mentioned is in LE paperwork- in fact, if any bad blood was present between MMB and ANYONE, the last place we'd hear about it is from the willfully ignorant and corrupt LE that threw this case.

Look at the breakdown of Marty's visits to the therapist, and what was discussed when. It appears to me a main reason for Marty checking into the mental ward was for income: among his first topics was establishing a PTSD diagnosis (Would such a diagnosis result in extra benefits and payments c. 1981? That was Dee Lake's entire reason for existence back then). Regardless of Marty being immediately shot down by his therapist, and Marty even laughing at the concept he was trying to bluff PTSD, Marty kept up that bullshit game until his death. He was part of a class action lawsuit- in which he was unfortunately successful- against the VA for being wrongfully denied benefits. So, figure out for yourself if Marty went to the VA to fix his marriage, to have access to Bo (who was living in Reno at the time, but NOT in the VA), or to get free money from a bullshit PTSD claim after spending the war at one of the cushiest and safest bases in all of Nam.

Yes, Bo and Marty went off together, LITERALLY running away to join the circus. It's pretty clear they also had one Last Hurrah on the east coast (NC / SC), in August of 1988. Marty was definitely carny prior to the murders- even Loon's family said she met Marty when he was working a carnival. Boubede was definitely involved in carny scams, at least from the phone sales / Police Benefit BS angle, yada yada. Remember, the first b&w evidence I had of Chenault's history was a write up for selling fake tickets under fake circumstances WITH the cooperation of the police force they were doing it for. AMAZING.

Of course, any critical thinker must concede perhaps Marty and Bo were together in 26 solely to pull scams. Both had histories with carnivals, Dee claimed Marty could sell pubic hair to The House of Waxing, and Marty ran the sales scams for years before and after Keddie. Given that, why the murders, why the lies about Marty meeting Bo at the VA, why the wiping of Bo's records, why the PCSO/Crimley cover-up?

In all honesty, with Marty getting really cocky AFTER Bo started sleeping on his couch (he only started threatening lives AFTER Bo showed up), and Marty's apparent need to impress his new daddy, it's not surprising things went off the rails very quickly. No matter the impetus for the murders, the fact Bo is mafia and both Marty and Bo were into drugs, and Marty was pals with the corrupt sheriff who knew all too much about the drugs, the cover-up would go down no matter what Marty and Bo had actually been up to, no matter the reason Bo was sleeping in Keddie, no matter the reasons they killed four.

The Keddie Koverup is the sole eventuality of the killers' involvement with LE, as LE had to cover for the killers and screw the victims in order to protect their perverted version of 'justice' and 'order'. Furthermore, if Marde's firing was related to the evictions of Kautzer and Davis (both said by LE to be out by April 1, evicted by Albins for drug dealing), then it also adds weight to the snowballing premise those involved in the drug trade (yes, including elements of LE) were not happy with the new regime in Keddie. If a quad murder also killed the Albins' dreams for Keddie and destroyed their newfound control of Keddie, it was win/win for all assholes involved.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby SuperHeroGirl » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:21 pm

So as I'm sitting here reading over this thread, something occurred to me that I haven't thought of before (I'm sure many others have but I haven't read it or seen it as of yet).

This does not need a discussion at all - it is purely speculation (which I am not a fan of) but I figured I would mention a thought that occurred to me while reading this post.

Start speculation:
Dee is involved whether he participated in the actual murders (he knows who did it and possibly helps clean up/dispose of evidence, helps dispose of Tina, etc.). Dee knows they are in BIG trouble so he tells Marty and Bo to get the hell out of here and check yourself into a hospital. Bo tells Marty to try and get a diagnosis of PTSD. Dee knows EVERYTHING about PTSD and the side effects and what it can cause people to do (snapping and committing a murder is an extreme example but it is an example none the less).

Dee suggested to Marty that PTSD is a defense he could use and he needed to get to a VA Hospital as soon as possible to get diagnosed. That would at least explain why Marty went to the VA Hospital so damn quick after the murders. Get diagnosed with PTSD and you have a defense should you be caught. It would also allow Dee to say "I knew what happened and I am the one who talked Marty into going to the mental hospital - I had been trying for a while trying to get him to check himself in" should LE try and say he covered information up. Like I said - this need not a discussion, just throwing a thought out that would (at least in my mind) put a couple of puzzle pieces together.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby dmac » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:36 pm

Dee Lake is a liar and a pussy. He saw about three hours of distant action in his lame military career as a pencil pusher. It's all detailed inresearch I posted years back. He is a pussy and a fraud. His actions as a "vet counselor" are also a scam, as is his religious BS. He hides behind a bible just like Rod DeCrona and every other convicted murderer who wants out of prison.

As for the PTSD visit to the VA, that scam began about a month prior to the murders, and I believe it was again motivated by greed. I believe Dee 'conselled' Marty about the PTSD scam, and Marty had already been fired and now had to come up with rent money, so off he went to the funny farm. His initial attempts at claiming PTSD were pointed out to be a scam (He never saw ANY action, so "how can you get PTSD peeling potatoes in the safest camp in Viet Nam?") Where he was stationed was WAAAAY south of any action, and was considered one of the cushiest stations in the entire war.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby Temple of amon » Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:17 am

"Without me detecting him", in his police interview says it all.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby Chichibcc » Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:30 pm

Dmac, I have an update regarding Meankitty's forum; I finally got back on there today, after a long absence, and MK is posting there again, which she's been doing since February. She said she had had a lot of things going on in her life around the time the forum was nearly deleted, causing her to not be on for a while.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby dmac » Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:37 pm

She emailed me, too, several days ago, but I couldn't make any sense of it.
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Re: Marty Didn't Do It. Maybe.

Postby Shellsbells » Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:23 pm

I have an account on meankitty's forum. There wasnt any traffic, the forums ads caused my computer to run slow, and there is more information here, so I just basically stayed here. I remember meankitty from years before and always felt she was very nice.
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