Sexual rage as motive

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Sexual rage as motive

Postby Ausgirl » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:37 pm

Jumping off a post by Dmac in another thread:

So far, the motives of this case have always been rumored as either sex or drugs or, yes, even rock and roll. Thus far, sexual rage towards Sue, is the only motive proved out by facts. What does Sue's supposed interference in Marty's crumbling marriage have to do with sex?

I staeted thinking about what I know, regarding sex crimes involving actual rape, as well as "lust" murders (in which penile penetration may or may not occur..).

It'd often said that in cases of rape, the motive is not sexual gratification/frustration alone, but more like a way for the perp to feel empowered, by humiliating and subjugating the victim. Penis = weapon, kind of thing. This is supported by the icky practice of 'piquerism' in which a rapist/killer gets deep gratification by stabbing their victims, as it's been noted that people who do this generally also have some kind of sexual dysfunction.... ie, their penis isn't working, so it can't be the 'weapon' of choice... a knife or pin or whatever is used to 'poke' the victim instead.

So when you say "sexual rage", Dmac, I dunno if 'sex' -- as in, he 'wanted' her in a relatively normal sexual way really bad, kind of sex - was as much a part of the plan to attack as say, rage in general. Sue wasn't raped (I'll address this below).. she was, though, wounded, beaten, terrified and humiliated, to a level I can hardly bear to think about.. and then left in a deliberately humiliating 'sexualised' pose, underwear used for gag and binding, a knife slash just above her pubic area.

I am at this stage fairly sure that if the original object was to rape, they'd not have left witnesses alive anyway. But the treatment of Sue, the (literally) many layers of the horror she endured, are decidedly sex-crime-like in nature. The point being, as it is with rape, a "release" of rage for the perp, as well as an expression of dominance, generally pent up via feeling powerless in other areas if his life -- and the points/questions that follow this thought are:

-- Sexual attraction/disappointment was not necessarily part of the original motive -- ie, if the object was "to show her a lesson", and the sexual elements (working peens or not) were used a *weapon*. That said, it could have have been as simple as Loon being there... being part of the pre-planning.. and as we know Marty desperately wanted his wife to stay. To be blunt, actually putting his dick in the victim might have compromised his chances with Marilyn, so he had to make do with other forms of harm.

So if this was a crime of rage, where'd all the rage come from? And why Sue?

I'm kind of leaning to a 'perfect storm' scenario, which I've done before.. but this time, taking 'sexual desire for Sue' out of it, and adding "Loon was part of the rage, on one known level and several speculated ones". And very likely part of the plan as well.

And when it comes to it, who knows???? Sue may have set the psychos off that day, or the week before, or in small increments over time, and so ended up their victim of choice. Maybe they all sat around that afternoon/evening bitching up a storm about Sue until she started looking like a deserving target. Maybe Tony the Greek was a part of the build-up to it. Maybe Sue mortally insulted Marilyn somehow, and she's goaded the men into wanting to hurt Sue.

I dare say we'll never really know unless Loon fesses up -and- tells the truth. So.. likely, never.

But anyway, the idea that Sue became the primary target for a premeditated torture session and murder, simply because she wouldn't date Bo has never sat easy with me. Not the least because this idea comes from... Loon.

More to come, I've just gotta go.
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Re: Sexual rage as motive

Postby leenie963 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:31 pm

I've wondered about Loon's angle in this and I'm leaning towards Sue was basically not an unattractive noob in town with her fair share of men in her life. Perhaps Loon felt threatened by what she perceived as competition; she certainly used sex to manipulate men--pootered peckers or not. Maybe it's a combination of Loon's feigning jealousy and indignant manipulation to goad Marty to do the deed. She of all people knew how to push Marty's buttons, she knew he had zero respect for her, let alone women and little girls. It does appears Marty had no inkling Loon was spanking it with Meeks, even leaving Marty the day after the us the letter where I believe he admitted the murders were done for Loon at her behest. Is it possible Sue hooked up with someone Loon actually cared for, had feelings for and was dumped to date Sue? Just tossing it out there as another avenue to look at.

As for the possibility of stabbing by knife due to his dick being out of whack and unable to rape, I can see your point. I also believe men will never give up the tv remote because it's a phallic extension of control. Using a knife is a very personal way to kill...up close and personal, with all the layers of torture and humiliation Sue endured the vibe I get is not sexual at all rather the message was/is 'you fucked with mine, and I'm fucking you back hard.' Could it be that is why they staged Sue the way they had? Unfortunately for Johnny, Dana, and Tina...wrong place at the wrong time could be the answer. Tina should have been sleeping over next door as usual; Johnny and Dana were out and about, made it back to 28 and possibly went in the downstairs entrance to Johnny's room--no one was the wiser upstairs...until it began with poor little Tina and Sue. As you said...we just may never know.
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Re: Sexual rage as motive

Postby azucena » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:42 pm

I have wondered before if Loon thought and/or had resaon to believe Sue had eyes for W Meeks , which as far fetched as it seems, would be enough to send Loon into a very serious snit, that she used very adroitly to manipulate Marde. When i think about it, this situation is so convoluted and messy ANYTHING is possible. Jealousy kills and Marilyn knew that game all to well. Loon already wanted to dump Marde, but he was still trying to win her favor. .. I can easily imagine what she might have said to incite Marde. Bo had his own agenda. Interesting how Loon framed it that Bo was upset about a rejection by Sue. Convenient..
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Re: Sexual rage as motive

Postby dmac » Thu May 11, 2017 4:19 pm

Azu, Loon never unfucked her men. Her MO was to destroy, and blame, her conquests.

Her penchant for openly relishing her involvement/denial of cabin 28 has been an ongoing joke.

Loon is the dead-end punchline. The arrogant killer, missed by most.

A woman did it.


Loon was already fucking others. Her marriage to Marty was a sham they both openly acknowledged.

So much shit put on Sue when the grief came from a clusterfuck of knobs in 26. I believe it was motivated by the implosion of a fucked and donkey-dick dead marriage. Sue was blamed for Loon's whoring. By Loon,

Marty did the deal, Bo punched the stamp, Loon said she was abused, and DT/Crimely shoved it in a 9x12 manila. No postage due, DEAD LETTER OFFICE,

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Re: Sexual rage as motive

Postby budrfligh » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:19 pm

You sure got that right! The painting she gave Justin as a remembrance of their kill........ that was so damn creey!
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Re: Sexual rage as motive

Postby lynabus » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:02 am

Reading this now and it takes on a whole new meaning with what we know now about Marty and Sue.
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Re: Sexual rage as motive

Postby bullshit-buster » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:58 am

begs belief that they could not only leave 3 BOYS not only alive as witnesses but the horror they left for them disturbing enough to then sexually pose sue with dana for them to see....just far out. these kids mother for heavens sake.
this factor along with the removal of tina kinda do my head in. f*@kin why??????????????????
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Re: Sexual rage as motive

Postby Just Curious » Sun May 06, 2018 9:15 am

Thank you DMAC, I found what I wanted. This is speculation but I haven’t seen it anywhere else but it does match the evidence.
810413 PCSO Stoy's Evidence & Photographic Report, 9 pgs

Page 7 of the report lists:
76/LLLL Pair of glasses on TV tray between beds in west BR

All the photographs of Sue that I’ve seen show her wearing glasses. She must have been near sited as reading glasses wouldn’t be worn in dressed up family photos or exiting a car. Anyone who wears prescription glasses can tell you that they are expensive especially for a single mom of 5. As such she would have treated her glasses with care as they were not easy to replace. Sue would have taking off her glasses when she went to bed that night and put them on the night stand where they were found after the murders. The location of Sue’s glasses also tell us that she was sleeping in the bedroom at the time the attack started. The attack most likely started with Sue or Tina in the girls / Sues bedroom as she would have grabbed her glasses first and possibly turned on a light if she was woken by noises in the other room of the boys being attacked.
Another thing I have been pondering (so please don’t take my head off) is that a sexual assault on Sue really can’t be ruled out just because LE didn’t find semen. The attack may have been interrupted by the boys’ entry into the house before any kind penetration or ejaculation happened. Sue was killed wearing a Muu Muu (not the most flattering or sexy garment but comfy) and a bra. Sue was petite and it doesn’t appear that she was physically endowed enough in the chest area to require wearing a bra at night. It’s just a guess, but I think that she was wearing the panties (that was later used as a gag) and bra for modesties sake because the neighbor boys Dana and Justin were staying in the house that night. Also, the underwear had to be removed before the tape was placed around her ankles or you wouldn’t be able to get them off. If someone was trying to stage the underwear they would have had to go into the girls bedroom and riffle through multiple drawers trying to find Sue’s underwear verses Sheila’s or Tina’s. That would have been one really calm killer(s) if he/she took the time not to make a mess out of searching those drawers for a pair of Sue's underwear.

Curious what you think,

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Re: Sexual rage as motive

Postby dmac » Sun May 06, 2018 11:14 am

That's why Josh not releasing the photo of Sue's glasses on the nightstand was his undoing. As soon as he posted it, I knew he'd wasted years of our time on BS spec that Sue was asleep on the couch. That photo told me the killers knew the cabin, knew where Sue slept, and went directly to that room, attacking Sue and Tina in tandem.

There's a slicing wound on Sue's crotch, indicating to me the panties may have been cut off her body.
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