Tina as the first victim

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Tina as the first victim

Postby Neon Bulb » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:47 pm

:arrow: .
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Postby kevB » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:51 pm

hmmmmmmm.....

Very good food for thought....

Perhaps Tina was NEVER in the cabin? Maybe Tina was taken earlier in the evening?
Is it possible that someone took Tina as leverage for something they wanted from Sue?

Maybe they were planning to hold her for a short while and then let her go?

Could it be that maybe they took something from Tina and showed it to Sue
as proof that they were in fact holding Tina hostage somewhere?

The only proof we have of Tina being in the cabin is Justin's word....

Could it be that maybe the boys arrived and Sue told them to cooperate
because these guys were holding Tina DOWN BY THE RIVER?

Maybe things got out of hand when Johnny started fighting back and things escalated from there?

Maybe Justin was threatened and told that they would do to Tina what they did to the others if he talked?

Is that why Justin said " they have to look for Tina down by the river?"

Very good speculation Neon and well worth some serious thought
Last edited by kevB on Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Neon Bulb » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:22 pm

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Postby kevB » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:38 pm

Neon....

Your comments make alot of sense...

(my apologies for using Shelia's name in my post above...I meant Sue)

Your right...
Parts of this crime just don't make any sense. I don't believe this started out as a
premeditated crime becuz the perps as you say were completely unprepared.

I think Johnny and Dana may have surprised the perps and walked in on something
and then it just escalated from there.

I think the crime can be solved by focusing on who the perps took and who they left behind.

Why did they take Tina?

Why would they murder 3 people, leave 3 people and take Tina?
(that doesn't make any sense)

Your drug theory also has some merit...

I think this crime may have very well started out as something else with Tina as the initial target.

Also...

There is no question in my mind that the perps knew Justin and the other boys
were there also.

Who brutally murders 3 people in such a horrible fashion in a tiny cabin,
then kidnaps a young girl and completely ignores a closed bedroom door?
(in my world that doesn't happen)

one thing is becoming more and more clear to me...

the perps knew these victims and the victims knew these perps

whoever did this lived in quincy or keddie at the time. this was not some random act.

I also believe that there are people in quincy today who know exactly who these killers are
Last edited by kevB on Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dawghouse » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:22 pm

Wow!! Excellent posts kev and Neon, there may be hope for this forum yet.

If I may take it a step further,

What if the boys walked in on Sue already incapacitated? I read where Sue was gagged, and I assume that the boys were not because I haven't seen that stated anywhere. Perhaps the perps had "control" of the situation already; Sue bound and gagged and Justin (as an unwilling participant) keeping the small kids in the bedroom.

Then the boys came home.

The boys (John, Dana) enter the cabin. Sue tells them to obey and they are tied with the same cord around their feet.

Could it be that maybe the boys arrived and Sue told them to cooperate
because these guys were holding Tina DOWN BY THE RIVER?


The boys may have been easier to subdue if they thought the perps had and might hurt Tina.

I think Dana made a break for it when they were being tied and, as Justin has said, he was hit with a hammer. Maybe this event is what triggered the slayings. It doesn't take much of a swing of a hammer to do serious damage to someone's head. If one of the perps struck Dana in a panic, perhaps he realized that the blow was fatal and this set the wheels of murder in motion.

The criminal mind accepts the risk of committing a much greater crime in order to avoid prosecution for a lesser crime, sort of an all or nothing gamble.

Once it was established that Dana was dying, they couldn't leave any witnesses....

....yet for some reason, they knew that Justin wouldn't rat them out....
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Postby dawghouse » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:28 pm

kevB said:

one thing is becoming more and more clear to me...

the perps knew these victims and the victims knew these perps




I agree completely and I think that fact scares the crap out of Justin. Despite what many think, I kinda feel sorry for him.
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Postby jhancock » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:28 pm

I definitely agree there are people in Quincy who know what happened, that there is a more than sizeable connection to Justin, that the killers knew the victims, and that the killers lived in Quincy or Keddie. The psychic who visited Keddie, for those who believe in this, indicated that the victims knew their assailants as well.

Currently, we are trying to track down those who can say for certain that the oldest boy in the side room has said, on several occasions, "My mother was inside the cabin that night." It's a story we have heard repeatedly, but cannot confirm.

We are also exploring whether or not one suspect was told to leave town in order to avoid prosecution.

Great posts, all.
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Postby kevB » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:47 pm

Does anybody know if a reward was ever offered for anybody in Quincy or Keddie
that might have information about this crime?

I wonder what would happen if somebody put out a reward for $10,000 to anybody with
information on this crime in Quincy?

Nothing brings people out of the woodwork like cold hard cash...

dawghouse...
I can understand why you would feel sorry for Justin. I have a special connection to him
too because I was about his age when my aunt was brutally murdered in her apartment
while she was babysitting me, my older brother and my younger sister in Los Angeles,
in the 70's and we slept thru the entire thing...

However,
Justin is also a grown man now and I believe that he has intentionally kept information
to himself that could have brought closure to these families years ago. Whether he has done
this out of fear I don't know, but I do find it hard to sympathize with him because of how
he has chosen to deal with what he knows.

I think Justin has known all along who committed these crimes and Neon's post makes
perfect sense.

I think these perps could have very well already had Tina and this may have been
how they were able to subdue Sue, Johnny and Dana....

This might also explain why Justin never went for help that night....

Why did Justin tell others to look for Tina down by the river?

How could he have possibly known where the perps had taken her?

To me the only way he could know that was is if somebody told him that...

Did he think she might have still been alive?

Neon's theory of Tina being used to get at the others suddenly makes perfect sense.

I also agree with dawghouse that when Dana tried to make a break for it and they hit
him with the hammer that could have been the point when things went bad for the perps.

Also...
There could be another reason why Justin has not come forward...
Alot of people believe it is out of fear and that could be true,

But I can't help but think that Justin may in fact be enjoying all the attention this case
has brought to him, especially with the media attention from the movie The Strangers.

He might feel empowered by the fact that he is one of the few people who have information
that could solve this crime. I understand at one point he actually wanted to be paid
royalties from Josh...

Justin may very well have an over inflated sense of his importance in this case and I think
he may be intentionally misleading people and stringing them along because he enjoys it.

I'm not trying to bad mouth the guy... I don't even know him

But sometimes the potential for fame and money can cause people to behave in ways
that seem bizarre to others.
Last edited by kevB on Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Neon Bulb » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:40 am

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Postby meankitty » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:08 pm

Tina coming home at 9:30 was from James Seabolt Sr. and Ricky could also have told what time she came home and went to bed. I have no idea why Justin would say look down by the river, unless he was in shock at the time and hoping she was hiding there. Personally, I don't think the perps knew that the boys were there, and the only way they knew about Tina was she walked out. I'm not even sure they knew about John and Dana until they walked through the door. As for no forced entry, they could have walked in through an unlocked back door, or maybe they tricked their way in.
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Postby coffee is love » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:36 pm

the door was most likely unlocked for the boys for when they got there.
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Postby Neon Bulb » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:16 am

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Postby craig » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:13 pm

except on the timeline
it states that the boys were at Exxon at 9:30pm and Donna could of not
dropped them off at that time...reread the timeline as all the people who
say they gave them a ride....well it does not make sense or go with the
eyewitnesses of people seeing them along Lawrence Street

they were dropped off at 10:35-10:40pm

i know this as i was the one that gave them a ride
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Postby Neon Bulb » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:57 pm

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Postby dcheryl83 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:42 pm

The "Tina taken first" theory makes no sense to me. Why would Justin say she came out of her bedroom with a blanket and ask what was going on? Regardless of all the nit picking everyone has done with Justins statement, I believe it for the most part. Anything that came later could have been from things he heard other people around him say. His initial statement however is very believable.

I also find it interesting that people are expecting so much more from this young boy. Some of you are questioning why he acted or didn't act a certain way. He didn't have the best home life, his step-father was an asshole and he was probably scared out of his mind. Its mind blowing to read some of the stuff thats said about him.
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Postby Neon Bulb » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:46 pm

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Postby the celt » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:48 am

I dont believe that Tina was taken first( i did at one time). If Tina was taken before the boys where home one perp left in the cabin with sue and the other with Tina. Where would they have taken her? She would of had to been tied up or incapacitated some how and what, put in a car , another building. Was someone else there to watch her? And if one child came out of a bedroom what would make the perps not search the other bedroom? That is why i feel Tina was taken last and the perps didnt have time to check the other bedroom. I dont think those boys would be alive today if they did. Maybe Tina coming out when she did , startled the perps and they had to get her and get the hell out of there . The other bedroom wasnt checked.
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Postby dcheryl83 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:35 am

Neon Bulb wrote:The only things missing was a tool box and Tina and her shoes and jacket. The kidnappers had the where with all to decide to take Tina alive while in the midst of killing three others and return to gather her shoes and jacket and steal the tool box. This version appears more logical? Makes more sense? Perhaps, just not to me by a long shot.


None of it appears logical so you're just grasping at straws to make sense of it. Who's to say they didn't tell her to grab her shoes and jacket. As for the tool box no one knows for sure how/when it disappeared. If any of it made sense they would have solved it by now. Like I said in an earlier post, I believe that Justins initial statement leans more towards the truth. He was the only one there and the only one that saw ANYTHING. Maybe his memory is now clouded and maybe the hypnosis screwed up the truth....but what we do know is he WAS there and he saw what he saw. Remember he was the one that told everyone that Tina was missing.
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Postby dcheryl83 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:38 am

the celt wrote:I dont believe that Tina was taken first( i did at one time). If Tina was taken before the boys where home one perp left in the cabin with sue and the other with Tina. Where would they have taken her? She would of had to been tied up or incapacitated some how and what, put in a car , another building. Was someone else there to watch her? And if one child came out of a bedroom what would make the perps not search the other bedroom? That is why i feel Tina was taken last and the perps didnt have time to check the other bedroom. I dont think those boys would be alive today if they did. Maybe Tina coming out when she did , startled the perps and they had to get her and get the hell out of there . The other bedroom wasnt checked.


Now THAT sounds logical to me Celt.
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Postby dcheryl83 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:41 am

Don't know what time Tina came home but maybe she fell asleep in her room with her shoes and jacket still on? Maybe she was mad that she had to come home and was going to sneak out? Doubtful but it could happen. Just like its possible that Sue had fallen asleep on the sofa. ALL of it is just speculation and the sad things is we will probably never know.
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