Crazy late night thoughts on pocket knives...

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Crazy late night thoughts on pocket knives...

Postby CoffeeOD » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:57 am

Two parts to this post. First about the knife itself which is very mundane and the second goes down the rabbit hole and is either crazy logical or crazy like really crazy.

1. Based on Dmac's post yesterday about the hypnosis session I searched back about the pocket knife and maybe because it's 3:45 in the morning and I can't sleep, but something struck me as very odd. Justin was specific a describing the knife as brown and reminded me exactly of this(hope the image shows or at least the link) knife I remember Boy Scouts having when I was a kid.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A2KJkIaPKwRPgyEAadiJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dvintage%2Bboy%2Bscout%2Bknife%26sado%3D1%26n%3D30%26ei%3Dutf-8%26fr%3Dsfp%26fr2%3Dsg-gac%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D27&w=400&h=258&imgurl=boyscoutknife.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F01%2Fboy_scout_knife-118102305755852660.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fboyscoutknife.net%2Fboy-scout-knife%2Fvintage-ranger-utility-boy-scout-army-survival-knife.php&size=8.2+KB&name=Vintage+Ranger+Utility+Boy+Scout+Army+Survival+Knife+%7C+Boy+Scout+Knife&p=vintage+boy+scout+knife&oid=fd6051a1c59e6f838e68d6ad1cdcc62c&fr2=sg-gac&fr=sfp&tt=Vintage%2BRanger%2BUtility%2BBoy%2BScout%2BArmy%2BSurvival%2BKnife%2B%257C%2BBoy%2BScout%2BKnife&b=0&ni=40&no=27&tab=organic&ts=&sigr=131g1cson&sigb=13vgeodhv&sigi=12jarnumk&.crumb=maHxAudGvSJ

2. While searching back I ran across Sheila comments from the time saying she thought she saw a pocket knife. I know that I and I'm guessing most people believed that it was probably confused with the bent steak knife, but I'm really wondering at this very late/early hour if she was correct and actually did see a pocket knife. Justin mentions a pocket knife, Sheila remembered a pocket knife and one was found in the trash bin of the general store. What if the pocket knife really was there that morning, left there just like the other 3 weapons and it was removed and dumped in the trash bin by someone there before evidence was photographed and tagged? If someone was to do that, what would they pick it up with? Why would the killer pick it up or carry it in tissue if they were covered in blood, which they had to be? It just doesn't make much sense that it wasn't at the scene or that it was dumped there in/with bloody tissue when the killers had to be covered in blood. Someone who wasn't covered in blood and didn't want blood on their hands however would want to pick it up or transport it somewhere and not get any blood on themselves, thus the tissue. I just can't see killers soaked in blood grabbing the bloody knife in tissue, but I could see someone the next morning who didn't want to get blood on himself and thinking maybe that knife was the one murder weapon that didn't need to be discovered, grabbing it with tissue or toilet paper and removing it.

I know this probably crazy and talking about more that some LE person covering it up after the fact with hiding the facts and not following up, but being actually guilty of removing a murder weapon from the scene. This also reminds me of a post where someone points out that one of the perp drawings looks exactly like a local LE person and not like either Mard or Bo.

Again...I feel nuts for even writing this down and hope everyone says I'm nuts and debunks this as me with too little sleep or just batshit crazy, but as long as I'm going this route I might as well go all the way. I'm trying to find a way to write this so it's done in some orderly way, but I don't think I can without breaking my "streaming consciousness" so I'm not going to give it much effort.

**Several people believe there was a 3rd person involved for numerous reasons. What if there was a 3rd and he was LE?

- Someone in LE matches one of the perp drawings.
- It would explain why if the pocket knife was in the house when Sheila was there, it got to the general store dumpster. In those aerial photos was there a cop or first responder vehicle parked near the general store?
- Maybe when Mard was in jail the next day threatening a local with what he did to her and asking him where the drugs were the audience wasn't just a random cop in the jail, but a specific cop that Marde wanted to reach with his voice?
- The staging maybe wasn't done by Mard and Bo, but by #3 the morning before others got into the house. Maybe it was staging or maybe it was playing late cleanup, like moving a body or two to check for a knife that someone might recognize or anything else that they might have left?
- People have speculated that possibly LE people did it and Mard/Bo did it, but has anyone ever thought that maybe it was both? Maybe it's a garbage idea, but maybe it explains some things that still don't make much sense.
- One cop removes is and throws it in the dumpster, not contemplating that another cop would actually search that dumpster before it was sent to the landfill?

When reading that hypnosis transcript something about the pocket knife just seems too coincidental and the only explanation I can think of is that it was removed from the house after Sheila saw it and before evidence was photographed and marked. Then thinking only a cop could have removed it coupled with remembering that someone said one of the perp drawings looks exactly like a local cop from the time actually made some sense. Something about the pocket knife just doesn't make any sense and this is what made the most sense to me at this hour.

Maybe I'm just tired or following a train of thought to it's absurd conclusion, but I think it's at least worth throwing out there for people to blow it up.
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Re: Crazy late night thoughts on pocket knives...

Postby tinkerbell » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:31 pm

Just to clarify, I thought the bent knife was a pocket knife.
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Re: Crazy late night thoughts on pocket knives...

Postby dmac » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:40 pm

First, the DeCrona / police sketch similarity is complete crap, and piss-poor crap at that. The police sketch is based on a psychic's "visions" (barf) so whomever in LE that OK'd such a blatant waste of taxpayer money should have been fired and prosecuted. Second, it's only when comparing the "sketch" to recent photos of old, fat DeCrona- a thirty-year-older version of what is clearly a corrupt old piece- that the comparison can be made. Third, losers like Spencey helped popularize the story of the similarities, although he didn't originate the idea. Spencey is simply incapable of original thought.

Once again, let's put to bed the DeCrona / sketch story, and once again realize all the police sketches are utterly worthless, other than Justin insisting they were wearing shades.

Screw the police sketches, they are crap, let's move on to Justin's "hypnotized dream" version of the pocket knife:

Justin clearly describes the pocketknife as brown, and:

"Justin: It has about three ______________"

Three blades? Three attachments? There are few logical choices to fill in that blank, so what did LE intentionally redact from this line, and why? Not only that, the line is crap because, to McClish it, "about" "three" anything is an indication of deception. "About' means Justin is not committed to this statement, and "three" is also, as McClish explains, a "Liar's Number". When the number three is used or repeated, it is often a sign of deception. "About three blades" can be interpreted to mean Justin knows the number of blades, and three is not the correct number. but he is certain he saw a knife and that "about three blades" is an untrue statement about the knife Justin saw.

"Justin: It's brown ............................. And it has some other gadgets on it."

Seeing that Justin mentions "other gadgets" (attachments), does that mean LE redacted 'blades'? It wouldn't make sense to redact 'gadgets / attachments' in one instance and then allow it two sentences later, so it's likely 'attachments' was not the redacted word. Plus, to McClish it, we'd need to know the specific redacted word Justin used- there are no synonyms, as McClish says. If it was a synonym for "gadget", it's an obvious sign of deception. Likewise, if Justin used synonyms for the word 'blades' throughout the interview, it is also indicative of deception.

So, of course, there are MULTIPLE problems with Justin's account of the knife that are simply bass-ackwards WRONG and will NEVER be reconciled with reality. Before I tear it apart, though, keep in mind his entire "dream" statements were an exercise by Justin in saying as little as possible because he was already in "safety mode"- to hell with telling the truth directly, that's just going to get him killed. Hence the "dream" fabrication, which you may note the "hypnotist" and DT made one pissant effort to contest as nonsensical garbage indicative of crap. Nope, Justin was poisoned by then, and he trusted nobody. Thankfully.

So the "dream" aspect is bull, and we are left applying what we know about the case as fact- proved by evidence we've seen and scenarios not contradicted by said facts. Other garbage is the can opener, which he would not be able to see or conclude was a can opener unless that part of the knife was extended. When it's folded in, you have no idea what it is. Likewise, the corkscrew? Who would notice that? The knife and fork would be blatantly obvious, but I don't buy that at all either. Marty and Bo came with a kill kit, and I doubt like hell they borrowed a kid's camping knife to take to a murder. You don't see those attachments on an adult pocket knife.

My belief is Justin was clearly fabricating many details about the knife, just as he fabricated details about Marty and Bo when BSing that fraud of a sketch artist. All the other identifying factors that may tie the knife to anybody, he intentionally fictionalized in grandiose, cartoon-like terms. Justin was ok talking about the events- kind of- but he wasn't about to stick his dick back on the chopping block by saying anything to these assholes that would compromise his safety by directly identifying the perps. Again. "Fool me once, shame on you..."

Oh, and let's not forget the possibility Justin was familiar with the knife. If it was a camping knife, the only way he would know all the attachments- particularly the invisible ones like the scissors, can opener, and corkscrew- is if he knew the knife. Was it his? His brother's? Otherwise he was fabricating all the attachments based on a knife he did not see at the crime scene. No way Marty had a utility knife with a fork and spoon, and no way Marty or Bo brought a spork to a gunfight. We're right back to Justin fabricating identifying details about the nature of the knife.

The pocketknife found in the Gen Store trash was found with a blood-stained cardboard box, bloody tissue, and a bloody wad of tissue. We don't know much about the details of that evidence, much less it's status, but we can clearly assume it came from the murders, and was dumped their as part of the staging / cleanup. Was it perp #3 on his way out of town, or did somebody from Cabin 26 sneak down the pitch-black road behind the dorm and stealthily dump that stuff? My guess is the cardboard box likely came from Cabin 28, and that the pocket knife was the cheaper, more generic knife that the perps brought to the cabin as part of the premed kill kit.

EDIT POINT

Please respond to my main points about Justin's deceptions here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=749&p=9675#p9675 This post does answer CoffeOD's OP, but the majority of my response here on CoffeeOD's thread deals directly with the thread about Justin's "Dream" interview with the hip-know-tist, Dr. Dash and Dastardly Doug.
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Re: Crazy late night thoughts on pocket knives...

Postby Ausgirl » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:36 am

I haven't much to add right now, except to say --- CoffeeOD, great post. Even if you end up being wrong, it's still a great post. Thinking out loud sessions - and the responses to those posts - have lead to some real breakthroughs here -- and okay, a ton of wasted internet space on the stuff that didn't pan out. But what the heck -- not like there's not enough internet space for it all. And there's no garbage ideas, when none of us have any real clue what went down at that cabin. So don't be so apologetic next time you have a theory spazz. :-]

I agree with you, by the way, on that the description of the knife seems way too specific, considering how sketchy his details are on a pile of other important things. Mind, he was asked some very specific questions about it. And I think this wasn't a random thing, on the hypnotist's behalf -- he'd have been given a list of questions to ask, by Doug Thomas. That indicates to me that maybe DT was trying to figure out whether the knife in the trash was the same knife Justin saw in the cabin, being used in the murders.
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