Seabolts

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Seabolts

Postby Zenobia » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:06 pm

I have seen Mrs. Seabolt's interview. She comes off as extremely judgmental. I don't believe Sue was a wild party girl with many boyfriends. Does anyone think Mrs. Seabolt held back any information? Could she have seen something that night?

Also, I read somewhere (not sure where?) that Mr. Seabolt was a pedophile. That is a very serious allegation given what happened to Tina. Is there any proof that has ever been documented to show Mr. Seabolt was a sexual offender?
Zenobia
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:38 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby Night Rider » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:27 pm

I believe I have pinpointed the source of that story, none other than one of my other "shadows." In the absence of any corroborating evidence, I don't believe the story.

And yes, someone told me once that they had talked to that person about a month later and they were making hints that way back then. Everyone knows who I'm talking about.

As to Mrs. Seabolt, I think so. She told that story about her dog getting antsy and going over to Sheila sleeping on the couch.. But she couldn't even remember what time that was??

Nor did she mention in the interview anything about her daughters seeing that van outside the cabin.

Some of us remember that post on Cabin28 that I refer to as "The Sue spread her legs post" Maybe some things were not a big secret back then, but everything said in the post was something that someone with her vantage point sure could have seen.

I mentioned that post to Sassy and she did not think for sure who that was, but did indicate it could have been her.
Night Rider
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:10 pm
Location: Sacramento
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Postby noom » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:11 pm

Nightrider-

While I can appreciate your continued flavor of secrecy on these forums, not everyone knows what or who you are talking about.

This is a forum, not secret code dug out of a box of wheaties.

If you are apprehensive about what knowledge you have or feel that information you possess may offend the survivors , perhaps you should talk privately with the ones that “know what you are talking aboutâ€
noom
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:46 am
Location: California
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Postby Night Rider » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:37 am

If you had read every post on Cabin28 you would know exactly who I am talking about, and no I don't wish to rile him up, since he is the caretaker and many people have had encounters with him.

I'm no longer afraid of offending anyone in this case, too many people have offended my sensabilities in talking about it.

I did quite a bit of work in developing that list of shadows, and I stand by it. Has anyone else ever done something like that?

There are may people up there who are holding back quite a few secrets, so why should anyone pick on me?
Night Rider
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:10 pm
Location: Sacramento
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Postby the celt » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:42 am

I read in a post that someone heard faint noises in the direction of cabin 28 and no one heard a noise in the seabolts cabin 15 feet away? I find that hard to believe. And as for mrs. seabolt, those who live in glass houses..........!
kathy
the celt
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:27 pm
Location: ohio
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Postby mechelle69 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:13 am

NR, is the same caretaker there in Keddie after all these years?
mechelle69
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:03 am
Location: Illinois
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby dcheryl83 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:40 am

Could someone please tell me how I can get into the Cabin28 forum so that I can figure out what people are talking about? Everyone keeps making references to it but I can't seem to access it.
dcheryl83
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:38 am
Location: Virginia
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Postby Red Violin » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:42 pm

The fact that noone heard a thing points to a scenario where Sue and the boys were attacked at two different times. Maybe Sue was incapacitated first, [she was gaged so no noise] then boys came in and fought. I believe that boys/man have no tendency to yell when atacked as oposed to woman who would readily screem.
Red Violin
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:52 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Postby Night Rider » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:12 pm

There have been comments that Sue's face was bashed in so bad that her brother had to make the ID. Sorta like a Sidetrack job.

If that is true, and she was attacked quickly, maybe she never had a chance to call out.

There are some hangups to every theory, like ?EJ's statement. If there really was three, and one was playing lookout, he did a pooor job. (no report of signs of a struggle outside?)
Night Rider
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:10 pm
Location: Sacramento
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Postby dcheryl83 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:56 am

Terry Johnston who lived in Cabin 28 a few years after the murders says The Seabolts were a kind, loving Morman family. Everything else I read about Mrs Seabolt states that she is one of the people who started the drugs/prostitution rumors about Sue. Why would she do this? Did she just not like Sue and her family?
dcheryl83
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:38 am
Location: Virginia
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Postby not sure » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:13 pm

No one knows for sure who started the rumors. Those kinds of rumors come from vindictive, jealous hearts, someone who is insecure and envious. Sue was pretty, petite and divorced. I'm sure she turned a lot of men's heads and some of those were probably husbands.

The only thing we know is that some people passed them on. Victoria Metcalf and Zonita Seabolt come to mind but mostly because they were in the documentary. Zonita said she recognized that she was judgmental but she must have had specific reasons she felt her kids didn't belong at the Sharp house. They may have been unfounded reasons but when you're a mother you go with your gut instincts even if they prove to be wrong in the long run. And she was open enough to welcome the Sharp children into her folds.

I can't begin to fathom why Metcalf continued the rumors. As a reporter I would expect her to seek out the truth first and foremost and set rumor aside. But who knows? Plus, we don't know the whole of what she said...some of what she said may have ended up on the cutting room floor.

Josh, can you add to any of this? Did either of these 2 ladies elaborate on the rumors?
User avatar
not sure
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:52 pm
Location: stuck in the middle with you
Has thanked: 351 times
Been thanked: 259 times

Postby the celt » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:31 am

Watching the footage, mrs. Seabolt states that she didnt think much of sue and that she should have been a better mother and that her kids where welcome at her cabin where they would be safe. Did she think that sues kids where not safe at there cabin and why? Here we have mrs seabolt saying that sue had fraternised with alot of men they where coming and going but mrs meeks , who knew sue, in my opinion, alot longer then the seabolts never mentioning anything like that. Makes me wounder about mrs. seabolt.
kathy
the celt
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:27 pm
Location: ohio
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Postby dcheryl83 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:10 am

Well at least she didn't take her opinion of Sue out on Sues kids. Any of the Seabolt kids still in Keddie? Kind of curious what became of them all.
dcheryl83
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:38 am
Location: Virginia
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Postby not sure » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:34 pm

I also have to look at what's been said about Zonita Seabolt outside of the Cabin28 forum. Several people have posted on Bonnie's My Life of Crime Blog that Mrs Seabolt was a kind, loving, helping person who made them feel welcome in the neighborhood.

So why was it that 23 years later she still needed to throw a dark light on the reputation of a woman who lived next door to her for only 6 mos or so? What was it about Sue Sharp that rubbed Zonita Seabolt the wrong way?

Does anyone know if Zonita and Victoria were/are friends?
User avatar
not sure
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:52 pm
Location: stuck in the middle with you
Has thanked: 351 times
Been thanked: 259 times

Postby dcheryl83 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:32 am

Who is Victoria?
dcheryl83
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:38 am
Location: Virginia
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Postby jhancock » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:59 am

Victoria Metcalf was the reporter for the Feather River Bulletin at the time of the murders; you can see her in the documentary briefly. She is the one who comments that there were a handful of rumors circulating about Sue, such as that her house was a "party house" and that she "slept with various men for money."

However, she never stated these as fact; she was commenting on the rumors in the town.

Victoria is also the one who returned to the cabin with another reporter colleague and covered the floors in flour in hope that they could get a footprint if the killer(s) returned. This speaks to a larger problem with the investigation; everyone wanted a piece. Doug Thomas refused to consider that drugs might have been involved, or that Plumas County even had a drug problem. From the timeline, you can tell that every investigator was off doing his own thing; they tried to unite their findings on the timeline, but it didn't work. I'm convinced, though, that if we had access to the case files, you could determine the killer(s). No one has studied the case files for years and years.
jhancock
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:59 am
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 273 times

Re: Seabolts

Postby Magesta » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:35 pm

I had a couple more thoughts on J.S. Sr. It was mentioned that the Seabolt's dog usually barks at any movement, cars ect....would he bark at his owner? What if he was inside and not out that night on purpose.

Dana had just started to date one of the Seabolt girls and was seeing her at Sue's house. Dana was strangled, which is up close and personal. Perhaps Sue was killed for allowing Dana and Alysa to see each other and not holding to the Seabolts rules, like going behind his back to let his daughter see someone he did not want her dating.

He is the one who mentions the green blazer.

His daughter discovered the pink jump suit. Maybe it was placed there to be found to make it look like she drowned in the river.

He was chopping wood the morning of the murders, lumber jacking requires a knowledge of knots, timber hitch, slip knot ect....

His wife was seen sitting up on the hill in her lawn chair day in & out looking over Keddie Cabins....why

He stated that Tina asked him what time it was and he told her it was 9:30 and she left to go home, maybe he walked her home or followed and the attack occured. He may have confronted Sue about allowing his daughter to see Dana behind his back, maybe he heard Sheila mention that her mother said Dana was staying over night with Johnny that night, when she went back to their Cabin after getting her night clothes.
Magesta
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:44 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Seabolts

Postby dmac » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:38 pm

Josh lied a lot, so his posts are not logical. I've had zillions of ideas go through my head about Keddie, and I try to leave proof behind that I was a bigger douche back then than now. I've learned a lot, stupidly wishing the worst were not true. I've never denied being an ass. But we're still right about Keddie. It's an organized coverup.

I've left many threads intact to show what it was a handful of years ago. I think it's grown.

ADDED: The Seabolt girls and others also mentioned the green blazer/van (if it's the same vehicle). We don't know which breed their dog was, or whether it normally stayed in at night (as smaller dogs normally do).

I'm more interested in the type of clothing the pink pantsuit was, like maybe Tina's choice for bedclothes. We only have it IDd as coming from 28, not whose it was. And the assumption cops made on what Tina was last wearing is a complete guess, based on what Sheila thought was missing. She was last seen wearing Levis with rainbows on them, and a pair fitting that description was found strewn in the hallway between the girls' room and front room.

Most in Plumas heated their homes with wood, and chopped their own wood. They may not have even needed permits back then to do so, as long as they followed protocol. They aren't lumberjacks, just people with axes, saws, etc. Dee mentions in Pt 2 that police were probably interested in him due to his 'demolitions expertise' and military knot training. Nowhere in the report where they interviewed him does it mention any of that. As for James, he was the Keddie handyman who redid 28 after the crime, redoing the walls and carpeting. He's also the one that built all the beds for the dorm, etc.

Where did you read that Zonita was sitting in a chair, looking at Keddie 24/7? I remember that being said once, but my guess is it was actually the Krois girl, known as Railroad Vickie due to her rabid interest in RRs. She's often seen up by the RR or up by the wye. Loads of trainspotters hit the Wye when in the area, due to its unique spot in RR history. When we visited, we walked up above the wye, on the opposite side of the highway (just above the gulley I believe Tina may have been hidden overnite). Up there is a big wooden platform hanging off the trail, now decrepit and unsafe, decked out with old chairs and even a BBQ for hanging out and train-watching. There was also another, new lawn chair chained to a tree down off the road for the same purpose. Loads of train-watchers in the area.

The gulley is just off to the left in this photo

The boys stated Tina came home, alone, and promptly went to bed.
You must be a member of the Keddie Forum with 15 approved posts to view the files attached to this post.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3097
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 2598 times

Re: Seabolts

Postby bkl67 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:19 am

Not sure if this is the proper place to post it and probably has been posted before and I just can't find it, but the most interesting thing I see in what Mrs. Seabolt says is when Tina comes home. The other stuff she says about Sue, about the men coming and going, I feel is just she observed people coming and going from the house which can be expected with a house full of kids and weren't all the Sharps smallish??? Let's say Johnny was having friends over that were considerably bigger than he and Mrs Seabolt just got a glance of these people couldn't she have just assumed the people she saw were men and not Johnny's friends, just a thought. And what she said about Sue not being a good mother, it seems Tina's teacher kind of supports that statement when she states Tina wasn't getting much help at home. I know we don't want to belittle the victim in anyway but we also cannot just dismiss the facts because we don't like them. And hell she had 5 kids so raising them as a single mother would have been a monumental task for anyone, but it does play a vital part in the events that occur, did she know where Johnny was that night or know what time he was suppose to be home or did he come and go as he pleased??? I'm getting a little off of my point about what Mrs. Seabolt said.

If we take what Mrs. Seabolt says about when Tina went home, 9-9:30, look what other things add up with that or don't. Not saying Bo and Marty are not the killers but just keeping an open mind to all possibilities. I know Marilyn has changed her stories over time, but than can be expected, but if we look at her statement, that on their way to the bar they stopped by to ask Sue to join them, at first she says it was approx. 8:30 and she did not see any kids, with what Mrs Seabolt said and Justin has said that would make sense, Tina hadn't got home yet, Justin said the boys were in the bedroom, they went to the boys room about 8, that all adds up. The question at least for me is, did the boys really get up to watch the Love Boat, Justin says they were in the bedroom when Tina came home, Mrs. Seabolt said Tina went home about 9:30, Love boat comes on at 9, so were the boys really watching Love boat or did they just hear the show as Sue was watching it or did they get up after Tina came home? May not seem important but when put with other statements we can start to see a little different timeline that I think is the prevailing belief.

Marilyn, Marty and Bo did go the the bar between 8:30 and 9 and returned home after 11 as Marilyn says the news was on when she got home. She also says the lights were out when they were returning home? Not debating if this is true or not, just looking at the possibilities, which of coarse lead to more questions. Were any lights on when they went by the first time? Would Sue have left any lights on so Johnny could see when he got home. Did Johnny have is own keys or did he have to be let in, I would guess because he had his own entrance downstairs he had his own keys. Either way I think it's safe to say Sue was in bed when the shit started to go down, her glasses and robe were in her room. So did she let Johnny, Dana and whom ever in and then go to bed, or did Johnny just bring them home when he came home or did one of the other kids let them in, there was no sign of a forced entry. Looking at all the sightings we have for Johnny and Dana at the Exxon or that general area between 9 and 10, that seems pretty solid but we don't have much on them after that, could it be possible they found a ride around 10 or shortly after? They come home shortly after 10 maybe 10:30 and the crime could have started shortly afterwards. By the time Marilyn, Marty and Bo go by the house after leaving the bar the first time, the lights are out, Johnny has returned home and the crime is already in progress. We know Marty and Bo return to the bar, but when did they actually leave, I thought they stayed pretty much until closing, roughly 2a.m., I could be wrong on that but if I remember what I've read that seems to be the case, that means if they were the killers, it would have been after 2 and if you want to place Dee Lake's gun and Marty's hammer at the scene, that means they either had to take those things to the bar with them when they returned, which is just crazy, or they had to walk back home grab these items and then go back to Sue's, what time are we talking now? Hey I'm not 100% sold either way and I would lean heavily that Bo and Marty did it but I can see the possibiity that the crimes were in progress why they were still at the bar. What about the muffled screams the person heard about at 1:15, Marty and Bo were probably still in the bar. Shoot it down with hard facts people!!!
bkl67
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:00 pm
Location: Federalsburg Maryland
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Seabolts

Postby dmac » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:37 pm

your idea that Loon and Marty and Bo went to the bar that early is also the very basis of many of us first finding out what a dumbass Loon is. It's been a while since I looked, but I know it was Loon and (I think) Bo who had multiple versions of when they went to the bar. Marty's Crimley interview wasn't too far off the times, but Loon's certainly was- by miles. We've proved all her versions of when she went to the bar are complete BS. Check out the theads about the TV listings that night if you think they went to the bar before 11-1130 or whenever. Certainly never as early as that sociopath claimed/claims.

I believe the generally conceded timeline that the killers went to the bar at 11-1130, and the screams heard coming from "the direction of the back of the victims' cabin" was when they left the bar, entered 28, went directly to the back bedroom, and attacked Sue and Tina. Sue never put on her glasses or robe, never got up to answer the door. The doors of Keddie residents were mostly unlocked, and these killers went directly to their prey. Screams were heard and, if Jonny and Dana were downstairs at the time, they would have rushed upstairs.

After that, I believe at least Loon stuck behind at 28 to watch things. There's also the distinct possibility another male was already on-site and involved, not just MMB. Marty and Bo went to 26, changed clothes, supposedly went back to the bar to re-establish their alibi, then left before closing only to return to 28.

Ignore the crap about Loon going to the bar at noon or 6 or 8. It's all bullshit lies from a cow up to her nuts in blood and guts. Also read Timeline Z to se how many variations there are in LE reports about who said they saw what and when, including the multiple versions of when Tin returned. Either way, when Tina returned to 28 has no bearing in the case.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3097
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 2598 times

Next

Return to just speculatin'

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest