number 6451 on the window sill

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

number 6451 on the window sill

Postby dmac » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:37 pm

Persons of Note in the Cabin 28 Murders wrote:Seabolt, James Sr.: Went wood cutting 4/12/81 before crime discovered, heard nothing night before, see Vicky Rhodes, found # 6451 on window sill where John used to sleep, saw wht/grn Blazer at Krois'

As I don't believe the number 6451 has anything to do with Phillip (Phil specifically said it was a license plate number and that he etched it on the water heater), I'm dropping him from the discussion and giving the topic a clean thread. Evidently, it was James Seabolt Sr who found the number on the window sill. Of course, it's a cop writing this down, so the translation is from English to Pig Latin, so take the result with a cup of salt. For instance, "where Johnny slept" means "anywhere downstairs", just as cops routinely translated 'downstairs' into "under the cabin". Thus, a window sill can be a window in a wall or a window in a door. The cops involved were clearly incapable of differentiating such broad subtleties in their reports, so we have to constantly dummy down our assumptions to keep pace.

6451 was the number found. I don't think it was a partial plate number, for many reasons including the lack of letters, lack of sufficient number of digits, and that even someone unsure of a full plate number would make a guess at what was missing... "I can't remember if it was AFW 6451 or AEM 6451, so I'll just write down what I'm certain of..." Bullshit. Four digits, to me, means it could be the suffix of a phone number. In Keddie in 81, for instance, I believe the prefix was 281 (I think MK verified this recently, as well)-- and, for the most part, it still is. So was it 281-6451? That number is currently unlisted, so please don't bother calling--- it's been 30 years and I highly doubt the number is still assigned to the same party! We need to find who 281-6451 was assigned to in 1981, not 2012.

Back to "found # 6451 on window sill where John used to sleep". Something has bothered me since I got these photos so long ago: there was blue spray-paint on the sill of the window next to the entry door into the basement, and red spray-paint on the window in the entry door itself. It always looked very fresh and out of place to me, but I couldn't conceive of a reason for LE- or anyone- to put paint there after the crimes. Here's a photo taken by LE at the time:

004.jpg


Since Stoy's report on the by-the-numbers perfect collection of evidence and perfect sealing of the crime scene is pure pig perjury, we can easily assume the cops were responsible for the paint. But why? They used a tape-backed emblem/warning notice to seal doors and windows, not paint, and you can't open a window in a door, and the window sill with paint on it was the portion of that remains in place (not the sliding window), so what possible use could paint serve?

And, to prove the paint came AFTER the crimes, I have this screen grab of the same area, taken by Sac Channel 13 when they covered the crime back in 81. Although the stairs are in the way, and the door is open (not sealed, mind you), you can see there is NO PAINT on the window. YET. You can see this footage for yourself at roughly 12:43 minutes into in Part 1:

c28back_screencap.jpg


I find no valid excuse for the use of paint by LE, particularly seeing as Stoy didn't mention it in his falsehood-filled account of the investigation. What possible reason could LE have for using paint and not mentioning it? Were they destroying evidence? If so, what were they hiding?
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby Magnum PI » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:14 pm

Dmac, I too wondered what was up with the paint. But never bothered to ask, silly me!
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby Chichibcc » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:44 pm

So had I....it seems very unusual for LE to use spray paint at a crime scene like that. And why was this particular area of the cabin targeted?

Another question-does anyone know what these spots might be in the downstairs window? I was thinking maybe lights of some kind, but they don't really seem to resemble that. Unless the windows themselves got spray-painted, too.

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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby Magnum PI » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:14 pm

Chic, it doesn't look like a high quality photo! Could just be a bad photo, hard to tell! Is that one from the photo gallery?
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby Chichibcc » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:15 pm

Last edited by Chichibcc on Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby Chichibcc » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:27 pm

I still can't believe I never thought to bring up the spray-paint thing before...and like D said, there was nothing mentioned at all in the reports about this, so something is definitely up....just when you don't think things can't get any more shady concerning this case, you get proven wrong.
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby dmac » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:14 pm

Chi, those are the clothespins grouped together on two of the three clotheslines. The lines were attached above the window and stretched across to the 2x4 nailed to the tree in the foreground. Again, notice how low they were- they would have garotted a killer moving around out there in the dark. The killers knew that place.

One other thing- notice how Seabolt had to bring this to the attention of PCSO? They couldn't find it themselves, such clever dicks. I wonder who pointed out the bloody fingerprints on the stairwell post to these asshats, seeing as it took them DAYS to find them and put them into evidence.
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby quincygirl » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:54 am

Just wanted to put my 2 cents in on this being a phone number. Absolutely. When I was a kid we only bothered to ever write down the 4 digits in a phone number because the prefix was always the same. When I moved to the "big city" when I was in my 20's I found it very strange that you had to remember 7 digits. My mom is in her 90's and if you ask her someone's phone number, she still only tells you the 4 digits. I even still remember when Quincy had party lines and operators you had to go through to call someone. That was up to about 1967. Getting off the subject here, but I also wanted to mention that the prefix could have been 283 which was Quincy's prefix, I don't remember when they started using other prefixes up there, but it for sure was after 1981.
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby Chichibcc » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:51 am

dmac wrote:Chi, those are the clothespins grouped together on two of the three clotheslines. The lines were attached above the window and stretched across to the 2x4 nailed to the tree in the foreground.


Oh, that's right...thank you. I'd completely forgotten about the clotheslines being there.
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby Cheshire » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:48 pm

The blue stuff looks like painter's tape.
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby bliss » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:03 am

A quick note why this IS NOT a phone number..at the time,actually until a few years ago the 4th digit in phone numbers were between 1 through 4. I tried to get a number spelling a word and phone co. said 5 was not being used yet as the 4th number. Even still the higher #s are for cell phones mostly. 283-4899 could be used but NOT 283-9444. Just an example of numbers,not any significance other than example. And for the record,we still only give last 4 digits depending which town you're in.
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby Rally » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:51 am

just a thought, could it be a date? 6/4/51
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby dmac » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:23 am

bliss wrote:A quick note why this IS NOT a phone number..at the time,actually until a few years ago the 4th digit in phone numbers were between 1 through 4.

I don't know if what you describe was Plumas-wide or just in the community where you are/were living, bliss, but I do know the current phone numbers in Keddie are either
281-64XX or
281-62XX

One number I know belongs to a resident of South Keddie (by the old railroad roundabout), and that # is 281-63XX.

Because the window sill number (6451) is common with the current phone numbering for all residents of Keddie (64XX), I'm compelled to believe we may be onto something. Bliss, I would like more details on your scenario because, if proved, it would mean 6451 is not related to a Keddie (or Plumas?) phone and we need to start over.
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby Ausgirl » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:33 pm

I find no valid excuse for the use of paint by LE, particularly seeing as Stoy didn't mention it in his falsehood-filled account of the investigation. What possible reason could LE have for using paint and not mentioning it? Were they destroying evidence? If so, what were they hiding?



... and there's nothing whatsoever to say cops put that paint there?

Now, I want to know the time frame between the TV story and the murders. Because if it was overnight or something and not three months, the paint could be really significant.
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby dmac » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:17 pm

The paint is significant. The TV footage was taken the day of the murders, the 12th, according to the recollections of the reporter who choppered in. His story is in the dvd, as is the footage, which shows the cabin with the porch light on, and the door to the downstairs still open, and the bikes on the ground, and the washing still on the clothesline. That footage is pretty damned early- and I wish like hell I had the original raw footage before they edited it down. I'm sure there's a ton of details in it that would warp a few brains- and theories.

Rewatch the dvds. The footage mentioned in my OP is, as stated, at the 12 minute mark.
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby krazykat » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:48 pm

Just an observation. If you want to hide something you don't paint it red against a light background. That red draws the eye. I would think it's meant too.
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby Magnum PI » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:58 pm

Great observation krazykat! If it was meant that way what do you think they were trying to draw attention too? I wonder if someone was trying to leave a message of sorts? Or a look here, there's something you need to see. There's something you missed!
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby krazykat » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:25 pm

Hi Magnum,

I'm not sure it's a message. Because it's a red strip painted across the bottom of the doors window frame I think it could have been put there by LE to draw attention to a sign most likeky posted in the window telling people to keep out since the door was open earlier when the camera crew was there.

Now if there was red piant splashed on the door then I'd be thinking message. Something along the lines of

"A red door represents that the blood of Christ has been smeared on it and that the area beyond the door is holy and sacred." Or
"People smeared their doors with lambs blood as a sign that the required sacrifice had already been made, and those homes would be passed over by the Angel of Vengence."

Something like that would require a lot of sophistication on the part of the killers. Then again I believe that the postion of the bodies and the fact that Tina's body was removed from the scene and taken to Camp 18 was a message, so it could be. That's the trouble with these murders too much could mean something.
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby dmac » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:31 am

bliss wrote:at the time,actually until a few years ago the 4th digit in phone numbers were between 1 through 4. I tried to get a number spelling a word and phone co. said 5 was not being used yet as the 4th number. Even still the higher #s are for cell phones mostly. 283-4899 could be used but NOT 283-9444. Just an example of numbers,not any significance other than example. And for the record,we still only give last 4 digits depending which town you're in.


It must have been due to the prefix you were requesting, Bliss: 281 prefix was clearly using at least 5xxx, if not 6xxx numbers in 1981. As the photo Josh just posed proves, the Sharps' phone number was 281-5647

<deleted>

Also, to those who disagree the vidcap I showed proves the paint came after the murders, try again:

The vidcap is one solitary frame taken from around 12:45 into Part 1. It is footage made by Sac TV-13 shortly after the murders, and is definitely prior to the paint being put on the window. The door is open, so we don't know if paint is on the door, but I only ever pointed out that there was no paint on the window. Watch the full footage yourself, which is why I mentioned where it's at. As the camera pans, blue paint should have been seen on the window, on both sides of the stairwell blocking the view.

Here's an animated gif of that screencap, overlayed with a photo of the window taken by PCSO later, and shows that blue paint would be visible had it been there when the video was taken by TV-13: (MUST CLICK TO VIEW)

Image
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Re: number 6451 on the window sill

Postby Magnum PI » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:10 pm

Who really knows what the purpose of the Red paint was! It wasn't there when the reporters were there! If some kid came along and spray painted it, then why not the whole door? It seems to me the paint it put there in a pretty neat fashion! It doesn't appear someone was just tagging the door. I find it odd that the number 6451 was seen where Johnny slept and then paint is found there also. Not that the two were in the same spot. It just seems strategically placed! IMO
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