What is the status of all the physical evidence?

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

What is the status of all the physical evidence?

Postby justamom » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:39 am

Does anyone know what the status is of the physical evidence? If I recall, some of it had been damaged, but not all, and some may be with the state labs? If money was the only thing keeping this evidence from being processed, does anyone have a guess as to how much money would be needed to fully examine these articles? People might be willing to contribute money to help solve this case...just a thought.
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Postby jhancock » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:28 pm

Hi Mom :)

I received an update from PCSO approximately one year ago that, yes, DNA evidence was sent to the DOJ and came back "no match."

A lot of the evidence was destroyed when there was water leakage in the evidence room. There is some controversy over this incident. It definitely happened, but some people in positions of authority think that it could have been intentional--which is a really frightening thought.\

The bloodied walls are still at the PCSO.

One part of the case that is so bizarre is that the walls of the cabin looked "stabbed"--there were knife marks everywhere. According to FBI agent Larry Ott, "As if someone had been throwing a knife and sticking it in the wall."

Why did the killers do this?
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Postby not sure » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:30 pm

I think Sheila mentioned seeing the knife as she first walked in the door and noticed that is was almost bent in half. That implies to me it wasn't in the wall but I may be wrong.

I think the knife marks in the walls were meant to lead to a particular person as suspect. Marty was known to "throw" knives. Back in that time it was kind of a trend to get "throwing" knives and practice throwing them and sticking them into things...such as trees, targets, walls, whatever. My brother in law was into the "sport" around that time. He never really said why but the guys would get together and "throw". It was a sport to them, similar to throwing darts.

Casey supposedly said Marty had thrown knives at him once...up against a tree or something? Josh would know better than I about this.

To me the holes in the walls mean one of two things...1) it was staged to look like Marty had been there or 2) Marty was there.
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Postby Night Rider » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:08 pm

Again way too much speculation, but no facts.

Questions: how many total penetrations? And in what room?

What does SA Ott base his statement upon? (Thrown vs stabbed?)

Do any of the penetrations show a trace of blood? (indicating that they were made by a murder weapon)

How many if any, knives were found in the cabin that could have made those penetrations? And were all knives tested for prints?

And also of interest, What was the height above the floor of a preponderence of the penetrations?
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Postby jhancock » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:50 pm

Sheila, nor any of the other family members, never stated that there were knife marks in the wall before the night of the murders.

I have often wondered if this was done to implicate someone else, or just to convey rage, or that it was actual rage.

In the documentary, Marilyn states that her ex-husband had knives. She even comments that one of the knives was missing at the time of the murders. Her son then comments that the ex-husband liked throwing knives against trees, and even at his own son on one occasion. All of these details were brought up randomly; we never asked, "So what about those knives or knife marks?"

Could this have been the plan, as NS says, to make it appear like Marty was there? The knife marks, the missing knife, the hangman's noose...

Ott had described them as knife marks, and he used the word "sticking."

No one has ever stated that the knife penetrations had blood in them, though the walls were covered in blood. Hoping to get footage of this for part II, but it's a long shot.
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Postby not sure » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:14 pm

What I forgot to mention in my above post was that the knives my brother in law and his friends used for throwing were actually designed for that. They were called throwing knives and had a particular shape to them. They weren't anything like utility knives or carving knives. Hard to explain.

Don't know if Marty had himself a set of those type of throwing knives or not. It would be kind of creepy to me if he used regular "chefs" knives for throwing purposes. But who knows, maybe it was something he picked up as a carny.
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Postby justamom » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:49 am

Thanks for the info, Josh :).
Now... I am curious as to who the DOJ tried to "match" the DNA samples, too... and what item or items were sent in for testing. As for the knife marks, if they were made by someone who brought a knife with them to the house, that really speaks of premeditation. If it was someone who was trying to "set" Marty up, they must have known him well enough to know he played with knives... if it was not a set-up of sorts, then the other interpretation is one of someone using "fear and threats" to interrogate or to prove their control of the situation. The whole idea of this case being a "coverup" is one that is talked about still in certain circles of people living in Quincy. I am not sure if this is because of the evidence room being compromised, or perhaps other reasons. No one, however, ever uses names, and many believe the person responsible is still living in Quincy. I think this is why fresh eyes, and new, outside, law enforcement is required if this case is ever to be resolved. Grrrrrrr... this whole case just seems like it should be solvable so that peace can be brought to all the families involved and the community. But then again, I'm just a Mom. :)
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Postby meankitty » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:08 am

It's possible that the knife marks just weren't that noticeable to the family, and were only noticed by the investigators. Wasn't the missing knife mentioned by Marilyn was noticed by her when her cabin was searched? I believe Marty was in Reno at the time and maybe he took it with him. Also, I wonder how she would know about a missing knife when she didn't know about the Hustler magazine? I thought that the only weapons used were found at the Sharp house (hammer, knives). I also wondered about any blood in the holes, but I think they needed to test a mark that wasn't covered by flying blood.
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Postby meankitty » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:21 am

not sure wrote:I think Sheila mentioned seeing the knife as she first walked in the door and noticed that is was almost bent in half. That implies to me it wasn't in the wall but I may be wrong.

I think the knife marks in the walls were meant to lead to a particular person as suspect. Marty was known to "throw" knives. Back in that time it was kind of a trend to get "throwing" knives and practice throwing them and sticking them into things...such as trees, targets, walls, whatever. My brother in law was into the "sport" around that time. He never really said why but the guys would get together and "throw". It was a sport to them, similar to throwing darts.

Casey supposedly said Marty had thrown knives at him once...up against a tree or something? Josh would know better than I about this.

To me the holes in the walls mean one of two things...1) it was staged to look like Marty had been there or 2) Marty was there.
I would think if someone was trying to stage the scene to frame someone, why not get a hold of something with their name on it, such as a letter or something?
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Postby Charmed » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:28 am

Wow lots of good thoughts and opinions around the knife issues.

It is very frustrating to find out evidence was destroyed while in police custody. It does seam fishy that some key evidence was lost while in police custody so I am more inclined to think there may have been foul play.

The knife issue is very hard to speculate on as someone else pointed out not knowing how many knife holes, sizes, location in the walls, blood and what not.

One theory I have is maybe it was intimidation. The knife marks could have been the killer(s) upset and proving they were mad and serious but not ready to hurt anyone stabbed the wall?? The fact it sounds like only 1 knife was left at the scene does make u think either the killer(s) did bring a knife with them or left with a knife. The idea of them leaving with a knife goes along the thought of them being interupted by something. The bent knife would lead me to think maybe that got bent and so they moved on with the next knife and tossed that one aside.

The idea of figuring out what evidence is still left and figuring out how best to process it and setting up maybe a fund for it is really good. No point in a fund till we can find out what is left and the best way to process it though.
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Postby meankitty » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:35 pm

It said in the original newspaper article that two knives were left at the scene. And they were household knives that came from the kitchen drawer in the cabin. My way of thinking is that if there were only two or three holes, maybe the perp missed because the victim was twisting and ducking to get away. If there were a lot concentrated in one area, I'd think the previous tenant was practicing with throwing knives.
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Postby bliss » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:01 pm

ARE you serious?? the possibility of all those knife marks in the wall and a family of 5 might not notice them? even before they moved stuff in?
and what do u mean, u thought Marty was in Reno and probably took knife with him??
are you basing this on things you know?
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Postby Rally » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:36 pm

This is only speculation, one can't come to any conclusions without seeing the evidence. One idea that i have, is maybe the knife marks were made in the wall after the murders had taken place. After an attack like that, I would think, the adrenaline would be flowing. Maybe the perpatrator took out his frustration on the wall with the kitchen knife, and that is why it was bent, and disguarded. That is just one idea that has been going through my mind.
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Postby meankitty » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:06 am

I was just speculating on the whereabouts of the missing knife that Marilyn talked about. I do know he went to Reno the next day (from what I've heard on cabin28.com). I have seen knife marks in wood, and they are small and not that noticeable unless you are specifically looking.
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Postby mrs.mcglovin11 » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:03 pm

I agree with Rally. I think that killers were stabbing the walls as well as the victims. That could very well be why one of the knives was doubled over. And I believe that murders like the ones that took place that night would have to be committed with rage. Why else would it have been so brutal?
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Postby Rally » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:54 am

The wall that had the knife marks, does anyone know if it was the wall that is against another room, such as the kitchen, or the boys room. Or was it one of the walls that is against the outside?? (sorry, I don't know the correct names of the walls I mentioned)
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Postby not sure » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:02 am

I don't know if the knife marks were on several walls or just one but in the cabin walk-through scene from the DVD Sheila and Rick pointed out the wall that connected the boys' room and the living room as being one LE took a square panel out of as evidence.
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Postby dcheryl83 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:48 pm

If someone was in such a rage that they stabbed walls until a knife bent, it seems possible that during all of this their hand may have slipped and maybe they ended up cutting themself. Its a very common occurance druing brutal knife attacks.

Anyone ever mention seeing cuts on any of "our" suspects hands? Has it been proven that ALL of the blood found in the Cabin belong to the victims?
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Postby Night Rider » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:02 pm

No, I think it was just said to have all been Type O

Yes, one original suspect did have cuts, but they were supposedly explained away.

I agree that it is almost impossible that the suspects din not leave any trace evidence behind..
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Postby the celt » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:36 pm

Maybe they did and oh look we have a water leak and some evidence was destroyed? Wow, we have a rat on the force? Was there evidence in other cases destroyed in that water leak?
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