Compassion

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Compassion

Postby PacificGhost » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:08 pm

My goodness! It is fun to speculate on this horrific event that is mysterious and unsolved. It may be doubly so for people whose hobbies include conspiracy theories that invoke passion in an otherwise mediocre existence. (you know who you are )But is it appropriate to project aspersions of character aimed at the victims in the tragedy? Is your passion more important than the people who have already suffered so much? A self-righteous affinity that tramples through compassion can only be adverse to your self appointed investigations. It’s important to understand that what you know, and what you think you know are often juxtaposed, and that a humble approach in the matter of speculation is always felicitous, and appreciated.

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Re: Compassion

Postby ache » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:39 pm

Oh for fucks sake - set down your well-thumbed thesaurus for just a second and consult a dictionary. VICTIMOLOGY. Look it up.
Last edited by ache on Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:02 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Compassion

Postby Eastern » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:18 pm

Might be easier and more productive to have someone clearly answer the questions asked. When they aren't, it causes all kinds of speculation.

Let's not forget that this case apparently involves quite a big conspiracy as to why the killers weren't at least arrested.

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Re: Compassion

Postby PacificGhost » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:43 am

Actually What causes speculation is imagination. Sometimes those who suffer from wild imagination without the maturity to quell its rampant nature find themselves at a loss for cause when they have already read this months issue of the Superfriends..Making ridiculous demands pertaining to questions that bear no relevance is no way to behave, even if you have the luxury of hiding behind a computer screen. I see that the "rules" for this site are loosely adhered to and not enforced. It seems that insults, and vulgar language are the norm. That is unfortunate.
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Re: Compassion

Postby dmac » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:52 am

We are a compassionate lot- we do genuinely care about the victims, which is why we're here. There have been- and occasionally still are- those that join the board to be disruptive and disrespectful, but we ferret them out pretty quickly. We may seem disrespectful to each other, and sometimes are, but it's just as often meant in jest. Show examples where we've been disrespectful to victims. There are tough questions that are asked, and ugly theories have emerged (often supported, prior or after, by police reports), but show examples where it's been presented disrespectfully.

As for the general attitude of your original post, titled "compassion":

Imagination may be necessary for speculation, but it certainly isn't the cause. Are you claiming to not have a 'wild imagination', or no imagination whatsoever? You enjoy one, because that sentence of yours is full of fanciful thought- meant to be insulting (which you find 'unfortunate'), while failing to make sense. Filled with syllable-rich words, your posts are still often far too vague to be answered, as they beg clarification. Your posts tend to leave no room for anything BUT speculation as to what or who you're addressing.

For instance, who is making "ridiculous demands pertaining to questions that bear no relevance" ? Please give an example. If it's in regards to my post, where I ask Sheila- and nobody but Sheila- to answer some questions, they are VERY pertinent to the case and she's the only one on the forum that can answer them, and I made no demands whatsoever. Clearly you are not addressing me, or you're just being condescending again without the convenience of being factual. These questions have been unanswered for decades, are in no way insulting, and are crucial to clearing up what happened just before the murders. If they truly have no bearing on the case, and since it's been Sheila asking for our help all these years, it's all the more reason she should have no qualms about answering them as clearly and fully as possible.

This is a murder case, which is a serious and ugly topic. May I suggest if our questions and ideas are too much, not participating here any further may prove far less stressful. So far, it doesn't seem you know the facts well enough to make the judgements you have, showing you again appear to have an uncontrolled imagination.

If you're attempting to build the circumstances surrounding your involvement here into some sort of bully pulpit, it won't work. And it wouldn't stop us from seeking the truth, anyway.
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Re: Compassion

Postby meankitty » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:18 am

As for the examples, one of them would be you calling Sheila a liar in the chat room.

Pacific Ghost, what I get from your post is that you're talking about accusations made about various people in this case with no evidence to back them up. Is that what you mean?
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Re: Compassion

Postby PacificGhost » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Calling Sheila a liar in the chat room is of course what prompted my posts. No one on earth has more reason to get to the bottom of the mystery than Sheila. She has no reason to lie and no desire to do so. It is extremely arrogant to assume that just because you have a question that it must be answered. It baffles me as to why you, who for some reason show such an extreme interest in this case, would want to burn the bridge between you and someone who was actually there. I was not condemning imagination I was pointing out the folly of a mindset that places speculation above compassion and a demanding arrogance above grace. I have made an effort to simplify my words for you as your responses are not in line with my points. I regret any confusion.

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Re: Compassion

Postby dmac » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:05 pm

As for Sheila's veracity, I have defended her from others. However, that doesn't mean I believe she is completely forthcoming, or even always truthful. In fact, her veracity was a topic in the scheduled group chat this last weekend. I do believe Sheila is untruthful on several key aspects of the case. My conjecture is she is simplifying the family life to hide things that may be considered skeletons in the closet, but it's still damaging to the case for her to be untruthful and contradictory here, including using the standard "I don't recall" response.

My post to her with a few very simple questions remains unanswered, although she has read it. It is a great opportunity for her to help out those trying to help her by clarifying a lot of the weird crap in police files. For her to continuously ask for help from the public, then to ignore harmless questions that would tremendously clarify things directly relevant to the case (and LE timelines & reports) is troubling to me and others. Nor am I trying to burn a bridge-- that's your incorrect assumption.

But that's not what PacGhost's posts on this thread are about, is it?
:XD:
And thanks in advance for dummying down your language, PG- it's very beneficial. Although you missed my point, so here it is: try writing a complete sentence with a clear point before breaking out the thesaurus.
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Re: Compassion

Postby PacificGhost » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:54 pm

Mean kitty was not the one who brought the accusations of Sheila lying to my attention. She was only pointing out the obvious. Sheila, having read your accusations, called me from work rather upset about what had been written about her. She then e-mailed me the archive of the conversation between D-mac and eastern and I chose to respond with a post that has clearly confused you. In the interest of civility, rather than point a direct finger I made an attempt to point out the attribute of compassion in hopes that it would illicit a kinder tone. Obviously that fell on deaf ears. Then of course, the main antagonist frequenting this forum made the arrogant suggestion that I not participate on this site. He then went on full of presupposition as to what motivated me to post based on his inability to ascertain my message. Clearly D-mac, you are a bully and your emotions run unchecked. May I suggest that you take leave of this site and ponder a career as an FBI drug informant.
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Re: Compassion

Postby dmac » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:15 pm

If saying exactly what you mean or calling a spade is a spade is bullying, then I'm a bully. To me, your posts on this thread is more passive-aggressive garbage from a guy who's unable to say what he means. To you, it was home-spun gold. So be it. Let's reach your suggested goal of civility by agreeing to disagree on what you were attempting to say here.

I'm sorry if my words in chat on Sunday upset Sheila. They have been said many times before by others, and the way I said it was not how I meant it. I was not in great shape and did not even mean to attend chat Sunday after I set it up because I felt so ill. Not my best work, but I clearly said it and stand by it. and I do mean Sheila has proved to be untruthful about several aspects of the case. They can be listed here or privately, and I'm more than willing to hash it out with her. But not you.
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Re: Compassion

Postby PacificGhost » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:54 pm

Who are you to "Hash Out" anything with Sheila? Nobody. Of course you don't want to deal with me because bullies run when directly confronted. Continuing to accuse Sheila of being a liar only discredits you to a greater degree. Civility is hard to muster in the face of blatant disrespect.
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Re: Compassion

Postby dmac » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:52 pm

Sheila and I have a longstanding association here, so she can always approach me as she has so many times in the past. If she wants to dissolve that relationship instead of approaching me directly, it's her choice.

You have nothing to do with this, and I'm not running from you or anybody. You have proven to be another lowly pseudo-intellectual, which is why I choose to deal directly with Sheila instead. It's her choice, not yours.
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Re: Compassion

Postby Eastern » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:13 pm

Alrighty, Pacific, I shall clarify where I'm coming from even though I have clarified my point directly to Sheila several times over the last few years. Yes, I have witnesses in chats that I have indeed explained why I speculate at times about whether she is lying about a few things.

Dmac's point about her not answering simple answers is a primary reason for my wondering why she avoids those questions. Sheila has many times, snarkily dismissed questions (primarily about Tina and Sue) saying she has deemed them irrelevant. As we have learned over the years about these murders, there's plenty that is irrelevant, yet many things that have turned out to be quite important. This case is nothing like it appears to be on the surface. Sheila saying it's irrelevant that Sue dated, or Tina was molested, or pertinent facts about James may or may not turn out to have no bearing on the case, but really, don't those things seem possibly relevant to those of us trying to provide the help repeatedly asked for by Sheila?

Then there's Rick and the refusal for many years (softening more recently) to provide any insight to his very possibly knowing exactly what happened that night. Justin has been attacked repeatedly and Sheila has actively taken part in fueling nasty attacks on him, while blasting those who innocently ask about Rick and what he possibly remembers.

After Part 2 was released, Sheila made a post that until she saw it, she had no idea it was Marty and Bo who killed Dana and her family - as if it was a complete surprise to her. That is without a doubt a lie, since many times in cabin 28 chats, she claimed that she thought Marty and Bo were the killers. Yes, that made me think, wth - why is she lying about that?

Craig is a flaming jerk and creep, but her rallying Richard and other Meeks family members to claim that they, nor Johnny knew Craig, was weird. The truth turned out to be that they all knew him casually, so what was the point in lying about it?

I'm sure I'll think of other examples later. :)

What the Wingate's and Sharp's have been through is horrific and even that is an inadequate word to describe the murders and their impact on the remaining family members. Those family members have been shown much compassion by almost all the regular posters in this forum, including myself. When lies are told, it is very normal to speculate that there's something more going on if a key person surrounding the murders is lying. I understand to a degree not wanting all of the family skeletons to be made public if that is the reason for the lies, while at the same time thinking four people were brutally murdered 31 years ago and a family member has asked for help; that family member should be forthcoming instead of skirting the truth and muddying the waters.

Look at the great strides made on information gained in the last two years. Josh started it, but the rest has primarily been gained by posters here. Posters who Sheila has issues with when they are offended when lied to by someone asking for help. Where is her appreciation for those people working damn hard to help her? People like dmac, Aus, ache, mk, not sure, and multiple others who have spent an enormous amount of their time and their own money digging up facts, weeding through information Josh has provided, and putting it all together into coherent descriptions and pertinent facts. Quite a few others gave up when it became clear to them that their "help" was being manipulated.

Yes, I'm offended, too, and don't appreciate it when Sheila skirts questions or flat out lies. It does cause me to speculate - she either wants justice for her murdered family members or she doesn't. If she does; then, pony up on her part. I do understand you coming to her defense, as her husband and protector. However, Pacific you have missed a lot and there is good reason for what was frustratingly expressed in chat.

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Re: Compassion

Postby Ausgirl » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:24 am

*edit* never mind, it's simply not worth it...

PacificGhost, whatever else I might think, for what it's worth I also think it's total arse that you are being taken to task for displaying a decent vocabulary. :roll: Place gets more fricken immature every day.

Anyway, back to my silent lurking.
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Re: Compassion

Postby PacificGhost » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:50 pm

Eastern. I had no idea that the atmosphere of this site was so vile. Thank you illuminating the mindset of this virtual congregation. I had assumed that it was but one deplorable zealot suffering delusions from Sherlock Holmes syndrome, yet the entire site seems to be infected. I feel compelled to suggest that you begin an honest internal self examination. You are meant to be so much more than what your correspondence indicates you are. Certainly do not allow D-mac to be a leader, or an example to you in anyway. Blessings to you.
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Re: Compassion

Postby frida » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:37 pm

I haven't been on this site nearly as long as some, nor have I done nearly the same amount of work on the case / site but I wanted to say something about the current tension. Though perception might be everything, just because we perceive something a certain way, doesn't make it a fact. Also--things in print can seem harsher than intended because there is no tone of voice or facial expression to mitigate what is being said. Interpretation is also everything. If Sheila is reticent about certain topics, it doesn't mean she's lying. Tossing the word "liar" around is not helpful. By her own admission Sheila has said the family did not talk about the murders much---and by her own admission she says she now feels this was a mistake. That doesn't automatically mean she is going to be any more comfortable discussing certain things. If she feels attacked, she will probably be even more reluctant to open up. I feel very badly if she does feel this way. I really do not think eastern or dmac or anybody here wants her to feel harassed. This site strives to bring resolution not more pain.
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Re: Compassion

Postby Chichibcc » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:07 pm

Did anyone stop to think that perhaps Sheila isn't ready to answer some of the questions that have been asked of her? Although the murders took place 31 years ago, time does not heal all wounds, and maybe there's some things she hasn't come to terms with. That's not to say, however, that she might not answer those questions later, and it certainly doesn't make her a liar, by any means.

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Re: Compassion

Postby Eastern » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:00 pm

Pacific, this site is very tame compared to previous cabin 28 murders sites. Given the subject matter, things tend to get tense. I don't agree with your characterization, though. Dmac wasn't active on the previous forum when I realized Sheila was being less than truthful. No 'follow the leader' on my part.

Chich, yes, I have thought about Sheila not being ready to answer certain questions. Can't quite figure out why some of those relatively benign questions wouldn't want to be answered, though. Regardless, that doesn't excuse her rallying attacks on people over truthful things, imo.

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Re: Compassion

Postby PacificGhost » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:46 pm

Wow! did you read that? Both frida and chichibcc demonstrated compassion by assuming the best from what may motivate Sheila. It is very much appreciated and opens the doors to good relationships. Like attracts like and good people are attracted to good people.


Understanding that we are attracted to those who are like us makes it easier to understand some of your misconceptions. Hence the reason I assume there is an over abundance of rude, and socially aggressive personalities that frequent this site. When surrounded by those that are like you, it is difficult to remember that there may be others who are not of your ilk or behave as you do.

Eastern, More than likely you are surrounded by people who are untrustworthy and lie often. You foster relationships with lowly self righteous people like d-mac and you have a difficult time putting faith in people and expect the worst. You are drawn to incidents of tragedy because you are comfortable within the quagmire of negative emotions that you feel day to day.

Sheila is not like you.
She is not a liar nor has she ever been intentionally evasive. Sheila is one of the kindest and most generous people God ever created. She has not only survived but she has managed to flourish in the face of great tragedy that goes beyond just that of the murders. Her courage and life example is an inspiration to everyone who knows her.Describing her actions as snarky, deceitful , or even "less than truthful" is akin to describing Mother Teresa as a wayward whore. You don't know her and clearly you have made no attempt to do so. Sheila is however available for questions from anyone who has the decency to treat her with respect.

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Re: Compassion

Postby Eastern » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:32 pm

Thanks for the psychoanalysis, Pacific, but I've already been through therapy with pros and I know what does and doesn't motivate me. The therapy also gave me great insight into others and what motivates them. We'll leave that portion at that.

The simple fact remains that Sheila lied. Not just my take on it, btw, since the evidence is there and will always be available most likely since nothing on the web is ever really erased. You can try to twist it anyway you please, but the truth remains and you are very intentionally trying to divert and cast an untruthful characterization of other people. Have fun with that. :P

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