this case.

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

this case.

Postby the celt » Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:27 am

Tinkerbell, where did your family live prior to Quincy? Did john know Dana when your family lived in Quincy and craig also? I had asked if sue or john was into any trouble before moving to Keddie Or even when living in Quincy and was told no. I guess what frustrates me the most is that this family lived in that cabin for such a short time and to have this happen it just blows my mind. What could have possibly happened in that short period of time that would end in this tragedy? You cant tell me that people living in that small area didnt hear or see any thing or know what really happened that night. Shame on them.
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Postby tinkerbell » Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:08 am

No the only people we knew when we moved to Quincy was my Uncle. We met Dana there. And no definitely did not know Craig. I have never heard of Craig until the old forum. We lived on the east coast prior to moving to CA
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Postby the celt » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:00 am

Thank you tinkerbell.
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Postby the celt » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:12 am

Tinkerbell, how long did you live in Quincy? Did Dana go to the same school? Its interesting that you didnt know craig but he claims that he lost two very good friends that night. I Wonder if Dana knew craig? Makes me rethink all his statements about that night?
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Postby tinkerbell » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:13 am

We moved to Quincy in 1979. And yes went to same school as Dana as it was 7th grade through 12th grade. That is what I have always said about Craig.
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Postby dcheryl83 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:11 am

So Craig is just someone thats trying to throw himself into the fray by acting like he was friends of everyone?

Its possible he knew Johnny in passing but I'm sure Sheila knew who most of Johnnys friends were.
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Postby jhancock » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:12 am

I think Craig has proved that he was there and that he knew some people, but I also think he has overestimated his attachment to Dana and Johnny. Time can do that to a person; we tend to glorify our past, especially those moments that we wish we could live over again.

What does Gatsby say near the end of the novel: "Can't repeat the past? Why, of course you can!"

I think that's what Craig is trying to do.

Sorry, I got all English teacher-y on the forum.

I do think it's strange that Sheila never once met or heard of Craig, though I certainly didn't know all of my sister's friends. I suppose it's possible that Sheila never met him. We will never know for sure if he drove the boys to Keddie or not, or why there are a handful of other people on the timeline who claim they did the same thing? I also find it unusual that, if he played such a significant role, the cops didn't question him. Considering the amount of random people and details on the timeline, you would think they would have heard of Craig if he had been that involved.

I did meet him several times, and he does seem to have a passion for this case. He was always very supportive of the book and DVD, which was nice.
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Postby coffee is love » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:04 am

i just have a hard time believing that the cops would just blow him off when he tried telling them that he gave them a ride. especially given that if its true he would be the last to see them alive besides the killers.
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Postby meankitty » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:29 pm

As far as I know, the reason the PCSO never heard of Craig at the time is he said nothing then. As far as seeming blowing him off, I have had occasion to file police reports (not about this case), and the cops do seem to act like that. Maybe it's something they learn in cop school.

As far as the ride goes, I have never heard of anyone saying that they saw John and Dana getting into any car, so I guess it's hard to disprove any of the ride stories. This post on Josh's old forum seems to point to Craig giving them the ride. http://www.keddiemurdersmovie.com/forum.htm?forumID=2273252&page=1&topicID=1427293
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Postby Night Rider » Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:46 pm

I've read enough "ride" stories over the years to choke a horse. Some of them insult my intelligence.

My personal opinion is that some of the reports of their activities between 8 and 10 pm are probably truthful. Thinking about that Sherlock Holmes quote, "once you eliminate the impossible......." That could easily be done in this case. Just apply "One and you're done." Better known as "Impeach the witness," Everything any witness has ever said is fair game on the stand.

I think the best example of that is the world famous taped interview with Mark Fuhrman. It's been said that Marcia Clark knew of the existence of that tape 48 hours before she put him on the stand. Yet she still asked him if he had ever used the "N" word.

Lets not beat around the pine tree, if you apply that rule to Karl Spang and Donna Williams, what are you left with?
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Postby dcheryl83 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:09 pm

Oh goodie, another name I don't know.

Who is Donna Williams?
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Postby meankitty » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:13 pm

Donna Williams is someone who supposedly gave a ride to the boys that night.
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Postby Night Rider » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:38 pm

Plus she is the one who said that she saw Sue in the cabin window.

Plus she also told that story about seeing "Hauling Henry" at the market at 2 pm...
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Postby coffee is love » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:57 pm

mk he stated that he tried to contact pcso within the last year or so and was blown off. i could have understood at the time but why now?
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Postby the celt » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:19 am

It was also stated that the porch light was always on. What was the earliest entry that the porch light was off? Also, the drapes where closed, was that unusual, did sue close the drapes at night? If so then how could anyone see sue in the window? I dont think the murders took place at 12 i think it was earlier. And the killers turned the porch lights off when leaving. But in all that frenzy, would the killers take the time to turn off a porch light? Its thought the killers exited the cabin by the back door, was there a light on the back porch? If so was it on or off?
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Postby the celt » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:25 am

I forgot to ask did the sebolts have any out side lights, front and or back? Where they on that night? What about street light ,did keddie have street lights? If so where they working?
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Postby meankitty » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:23 pm

Celt, I did see that the porch lights were off on the timeline. But in the footage that showed their front door, the light is on. And the porch light switch could have been right by the living room light switch.
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Postby the celt » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:37 am

I watched the footage and the porch light is on, but wasnt that a year after the murders and other people where living in that cabin? I might be wrong. If the porch light was on that morning when sheila came home then someone turned it on after the murders. Im sure that sheila cant remember if the porch light was on or not when she came home that morning.
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Postby meankitty » Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:40 pm

I always thought it was the news footage taken the next morning. I'll have to check, but it seems the sign with the Sharp's name on it was also in the footage.
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Postby the celt » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:46 pm

Your right , the light is on and the footage was the next day. I was watching a different part of the documentary. Now that is odd because i thought people said that sue always kept the outside light on. On the timeline some people pass the cabin and notice the light is off even well into the night ans the next morning the light is on. Did one of the killers turn the light on, maybe one of the officers or maybe it was sheila. It could have been justin for all we know. Its just strange.
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