Why I Think Drug Involvement

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Why I Think Drug Involvement

Postby Princess » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:52 am

01000-0000b Steve D. states that he "scored hash" from Martin Smartt on two occasions. Martin S. would also front hash to people he trusted and Martin S. makes hash. Steve D. has seen as much as a pound of hash in Martin S.'s house. (prior to April 11) <Leonard>

1. This is the reason why I was thinking that drugs was involved. That maybe Martin fronted some to Sue.

10300 Marty threatens to break Johnny Sharp's hands. {Crim interview w/ Marilyn 810421}

2. This is the reason why I was thinking that Johnny may have stole some.

10404 0000 Document shows either on this date or April 11. Marty called a friend (who reported the incident) stating if he didn't get things 'straightened out', Marty might kill someone. {PCSO Report}

3. What did he need to get straightened out? Who was the person that reported the incident?

10404 (week of) Bo would get up at night and wander around outside {Crim interview w/ Marilyn 810421}

4. This shows that Bo didn't take medications that would knock him out all night.

810409 Sue Sharp meets "Bo" at Marty’s residence. Wade Meeks had earlier introduced Marty to Sue.

6. Why did Wade have to introduce Marty to Sue? So Sue could become a customer? Sue lived next door to them, and knew Marilyn, so why would Wade have to introduce them?

810411 Marilyn didn't see Marty for 1/2 or 3/4 of hour.

Why did he disappear? Was it to go talk business, possibly to set up the murders?

We know that Marty was having a breakdown before and after the murders. Was it because he had screwed up on selling somebody else's drugs? He owed somebody money? He fronted some to Sue, and she owed the money, that would make sense on the anger towards her.

Were they getting the drugs from Dee Lakes friend, and that is why they got involved? They could also be why Dee loaned Marty his car. Is that why 6 months or so after the murders Marty sends the note to Ramona Lake saying "Bo is dead". Because Dee and his friend did not know Bo well enough to know if he would run his mouth, and Marty might have been trying to get his connection back with them.

Dee had been knowing Marty for awhile and Bo knew how to talk allot of shit. Maybe that is why Frank decided to front some to Marty to get rid of it. Frank apparently had business there before when he was living there.

Marty wouldn't necessarily have allot of money, especially if he was just getting started. If the dope was fronted to him, to try to help him make some money, and then he screws it up, by either fronting some out, or some of it getting stolen. That would be a reason to have so much rage towards Sue, she made him look like a dumb ass.
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Re: Why I Think Drug Involvement

Postby Myrion » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:17 am

1. Is there any evidence that Sue smoked Hash? I read, in another thread, that she might have had a problem with alcohol but not with hash.

2. Threatening to break Johnny's hands because he might have stolen something rings true. Threatening to break the hands of a thief would be more likely than threats of leg breaking or nose smashing if he was suspected of stealing whatever Marde thought he'd stolen.

3. no idea.

4.No idea.

6. I've had neighbors introduce me to other neighbors that I knew well enough to say hello to..but had no idea what their names were. While Sue may have known Loon it's not hard to believe that she didn't know Marde...or had no wish to know him prior to Wade's introduction.

I think that while drugs may have played a part in everything (seemingly) that went on around that resort there was more hatred directed at Sue than just a bit of hash misplaced. The way she gagged with multiple gags leads me to believe that the killers believed they needed her to shut up about something. Then again it could have just been due to the fact that she wouldn't keep quit during the murders. Who knows? But the multiple gagging seems more psychologically telling. It looks like Sue was humiliated before death while the boys were just killed.
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Re: Why I Think Drug Involvement

Postby dmac » Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:22 pm

1> Not too sure what to make of Durham. His post abt taking Johnny and Dana conflict with logic and "facts". Gansner Park is mentioned maybe twice as a "party spot", and if it was, the partiers must like hiking into the deep woods to pull it off, because patrolling the area is as easy as turning a steering wheel. I went to the park and do not classify it as a smart place to "party". Also, it's right around the time EVERYONE was seeing them at Exxon, so either he was the last known person to have seen them other than the killers, or he's lying. But then Richard tells Stoy that Steve said he gave them a ride to the park AND BACK TO EXXON, so why the conflicting stories? Also, how can he be at the arcade until 2am, and also be at a Clyde's party? Prior to 9:15? After 2 am? These cops never clarify a single thing, which makes many of their "reports" pretty meaningless- and maybe that's intentional. There's also a lot of research by LE into parties along Lee Rd that night, yet Clyde only gets the one mention on all the timelines? So, Steve's veracity is questionable- as usual. Also, the whole thing about seeing a pound? That would take 7-10 pounds of bud to get enough trichomes to make real hash. Of course, if Marty was selling it, he was likely making soapbar so he could load it with filler. Even then, it would take several pounds of bud. Also, the street value would have been several thousand dollars- something I don't see Marty doing while living in that hellhole cabin. But maybe the cabin was cover, and so long as he was comfy, to hell with the kids living in that closet of a room of theirs.

    810000-0000b Steve Durham states that he "scored hash" from Martin Smartt on two occasions. Martin Smartt would also front hash to people he trusted and Martin Smartt makes hash. Durham has seen as much as a pound of hash in Martin S.'s house. (prior to April 11) <Leonard>

    810411-2130b Johnny and Dana are picked up at the Exxon by Steve Durham and are driven to the park near the airport looking for a party. Dana appeared to be drunk and told Steve he had been drinking something other than beer. Johnny, Dana and Steve drove through the park but did not see any parties. Steve stated he saw a brown car with two males, ages 21-30 years, with short to average length hair, parked in the park. Steve then dropped Johnny and Dana off. Approximate time: 9:30-9:45 pm. <Leonard> <Stoy>

    810411-2200 Richard Meeks goes to the Arcade in Quincy & meets Angus Lynch, Steve Durham & Mike Hamilton. (Richard Meeks/Stoy)

    810411-2200 Steve Durham arrives at the Arcade & tells Richard Meeks he had just given Dana & Johnny a ride to the park & then back to the Exxon. (Richard Meeks/Stoy)

    810411-0000b Clyde Smith. related that he had a party at his residence on Lee Road. S. states that Steve Durham was at his party. Smith does not believe that Frank Ames attended the party. <Leonard>

    810412-0200 Richard Meeks, Angus Lynch, Steve Durham & Mike Hamilton leave the arcade. (Richard Meeks/Stoy)

2> It could also have come from something as simple as Johnny flipping him off, or maybe it was a pet expression of Marty's.

3> A woman from the Green Valley Gazette reported this to police. Someone who did not want to be identified had called and told her. The person reporting knew Marty pretty well if the report is accurate. The quote in the LE report is:

"Martin called this person and said if he didn't get things straightened out he, he might kill someone. Martin used to cook at Keddie and has a friend he met in the mental hospital". Again, whoever wrote the report leaves tons of room for misinterpretation- my guess is Don Stoy, given the handwriting:

<deleted>

Is "he" the reporting witness, or Marty? Four different ways to interpret the statement- three wrong- due to Don's work. One should conclude Marty was saying Marty needed to get shit worked out or Marty was going to kill someone.

4: EXACTLY. Great deduction, and it again totally contradicts their alibi.

5: I can't find it, but I believe there's a quote or report that Marty was seen outside talking to someone- not Bo. There is plenty of circumstantial stuff that shows the whole trip to the bar was to set up an alibi while planning an attack. Was the person Marty was talking to outside related to the murders, perhaps our mystery man, "#3"? One thing that's interesting is they took the kill kit with them and stashed it somewhere along the way to the bar, since the debunking of their statements by McClish says they "started back home" but never got there... I'd already figured they stashed the kit somewhere close to 28, before McClish pointed out those statements. Those interviews are jam-packed with hidden gems like that.

I really can't speak to the reasons for Marty's meltdown as it would be wild spec on my part. He was an abusive asshole who thrived on threatening people, he was paranoid on many levels, and even after the murders his behavior became more erratic, threatening to kill many people, including Marilyn's 'boyfriends'. Now, his paranoia about Marilyn wasn't paranoia- she was a whore. Marty had already threatened Wade in the jail incident, but was it really about drugs or about Marilyn? Mamma Meeks insists Wade and Marilyn didn't 'hook up' until after the murders, but there are plenty of reasons to believe otherwise, including Wade's 'friendship' with Marty and Loon long prior to 4/81. I believe the friendship was really about drugs (Wade was just about 20, hardly the age range for Marty's friends). And about screwing Loon- but when did that start?

Marty was already messed in the head- he was at the VA to get his brain in order to save his marriage? But why would he believe his marriage was worth saving, if he already suspected or knew Loon was screwing around? Was he into that? Well, apparently not, due to his jealousy. Was he that nuts about Loon, that it didn't interrupt his need to be with her? The only reason he left Plumas was for self-preservation from capital murder charges. Had Sue been some other sort of roadblock in his marriage?

All of it ties into motive, and it's all been alleged before- but not substantiated. We do know the violence inflicted on the victims- particularly Sue- indicates a very personal anger and rage. We have premeditation and personal motivation: RAGE.
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Re: Why I Think Drug Involvement

Postby Eastern » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:11 pm

I think it looks like it was for sure about drugs on the surface. It's a huge red herring, imo. Marty was a mess and he was a sociopath is what I think. People like him do all kinds of things that aren't rational. Most of them don't murder people, but most of them harm people in other ways and why they do it seems so minor to normal people. Women are raped and killed everyday and it's not about sex - the same with children being raped and killed everyday. The reasons seem ludicrous to almost everyone else, but to the person doing the raping and killing - they felt like their actions were justified. His prior actions strongly indicate his lack of care and concern for others and his hair trigger temper. He had a history of doing things that were so over the top for such silly reasons and his emotional state was escalating badly in the months prior to the murders.
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Re: Why I Think Drug Involvement

Postby Princess » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:19 pm

When drugs are involved your going have people acting irrational. Why else would 2-3 people premeditate murder! That seems to me why DOJ and PLUMAS COUNTY would want to cover it up!

I don't see 2-3 people premeditating murder, because of sex or because Sue was turning Marilyn against Marty! They obviously went with a kill kit!!!!
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Re: Why I Think Drug Involvement

Postby Eastern » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:27 pm

Deborah wrote:When drugs are involved your going have people acting irrational. Why else would 2-3 people premeditate murder! That seems to me why DOJ and PLUMAS COUNTY would want to cover it up!

I don't see 2-3 people premeditating murder, because of sex or because Sue was turning Marilyn against Marty! They obviously went with a kill kit!!!!


I guess the best thing to do is read about what motivates a rapist, the different motivations for killers, and what sociopaths and psychopaths are like. It has nothing to do with sex except that some of the sickos get sexual enjoyment from the violence against, humiliation, and dominance of the victim. It validates the perpetrator and makes them feel powerful in their mind. You're thinking of it in normal sexual terms and it's not like that at all.

Yes, many sociopaths or psychopaths would see someone (Sue) encouraging their spouse (Mariloon) to leave him as a grievous, personal insult and would act on it. I don't know if that was the sole motivation for Marty (I think it was only part of it), but he was already spinning out of control about his marriage problems and he was the type to blame everyone, but himself for his problems. People kill others everyday over marriage issues and it is often pre-meditated. It was already planned by at least one of the killers since they went there with a kill/rape kit.

Ask yourself why Bo even brought up his claim of impotence. That's something most men would rather chew their own arm off than admit to strangers. Whether he said it because he knew Sue looked like a victim of sexual assault or that if LE found Tina's body, it would be known that she was sexually assaulted - he said it for a reason. He didn't want to be accused of it - "I'm impotent, so don't blame me for that; it was the other guy." Bo was hedging his bets.

Drugs may have been a motive, but there was plenty to motivate Marty to hurt someone like Sue without drugs being a motivator.

Disclaimer - many rapists do have sexual dysfunctions, including impotency. :) Seems weird, but they do.
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Re: Why I Think Drug Involvement

Postby SammieJo » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:44 am

Marty wasn't a rational type of person- This is why I wish yall has an interview with him so bad! I've met people like him before, not his personality but his temperment so if you even want to try looking at it from his perspective be prepared to nit pick, on top of his wife and her behavior, he was losing his mind & he was a loser, but he wasn't in the psych ward just because his marrige was falling apart . He would have just gotten sent to out patient therapy. Usually (now) if you get admitted to psychiatric care in the hospital you are having serious issues like suicidal or homicidal thoughts, or delusions and hallucinations. The anti- epilepsy drugs Bo was supposedly on- not necessarily have to be used to treat epilepsy or seizures, many anti convulsant drugs are being used as mood stabalizers, anti- depressants,and anti psychotics maybe Bo didn't wanna admit he had a mood disorder and those extra happy times with family could have possibly been attributed to Bo on his meds as they were intended to be used, mental diseases are been "frowned apon" I imagine it was worse in the 70's & early 80's but from the way Bo's family talks about him I don't think he would openly admit to having a mood disorder.

A question though:

Did they hand out meds like candy back then the way they do now?

If so, I imagine Marty probably recieved a prescription too that he probably should have been taking.

What was Bo on?
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Re: Why I Think Drug Involvement

Postby Princess » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:14 am

Bo used uppers, marijuana, and alcohol. I am sure he treated us good because we were family. Although, he didn't seem to have any respect for his family, considering he would bring his scams and drugs to us when he would visit. That is why allot of family didn't really like him around. They loved him because he was family, not for the things he did. Point being that I don't think Bo would of had a problem in the world letting us know that he took mood stablilizers.

It also seems to me that Bo was not taking any seizure medications while he was in Keddie.
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Re: Why I Think Drug Involvement

Postby TREELAND » Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:22 pm

In regard to Bo not taking seizure medication while he was at Keddie, if Marty was telling the truth when he told about the pills Bo had to take nightly, Dilantin was mentioned. Dilantin is a anti-convulsant muscle relaxant used to control seizures. It is interesting to note that side effects include mood and behavior changes such as depression, anxiety, hyperactivity(mentally and physically), agitation, hostility, and suicidal thoughts. Once on this medication your not advised to just stop using it as this can cause severe seizures, which can be fatal.
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Re: Why I Think Drug Involvement

Postby dmac » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:26 pm

Those pills were bullshit, all part of the Loonibi. "See, Bo ain't no killer cuz I gave him his pills"

    Crim: He probably, was he limiting his drinking pretty much?

    Smartt: Yeah. He has to.

    Crim: With all the medicine and everything?

    Smartt: Yeah. If he takes more than two drinks and then takes those two pills, then you can't move him with a crowbar.

    Bradley: That bad, uh.

    Smartt: Well once he takes his medicine, that's it for him anyway.

    Crim: He is out, and gone until morning?

    Smartt: Well he can hardly even walk after that medicine is in.

Interestingly, right after that, Marty adds this to the Loonibi:

    Bradley: Was your wife still in the sack when you got back? In bed?

    Smartt: Yeah, when I got home she was just gone, slept right through.

"slept right through" what, exactly? You don't "sleep right through" someone leaving your house and going to the bar for half an hour--- but you DO sleep through something that took a few hours, like a quad murder. The problem is, Bo said Loon was awake when they got home. And she was, because she was with them inside Cabin 28 that night.

    Bradley: When you got back to the house, was Marilyn up or in bed or what?

    John: No, she was up.
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Re: Why I Think Drug Involvement

Postby Princess » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:35 am

I agree with Dmac. It was a part of the alibi. Marty knew about the medication either because Bo told him to say that or he was just rattling from his mouth. Loon was also epileptic so Marty did have knowledge about the medications. I believe they used it as an alibi because it would make it appear that Bo was knocked out asleep and for some reason Bo seemed to have control over Marty. It was like Bo told Marty that he better cover his ass or there were going to be problems. I know this for a fact, when Bo was at our house in the late part of May or early June 1981, he was not taking any medications for seizures.

Now one thing you have to remember about Bo, he is a copy cat. Everything personal that he speaks of didn't actually happen to him, it had either happened to a family member or a friend.
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Re: Why I Think Drug Involvement

Postby TREELAND » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:40 am

I can understand how this would be part of their alilbi and noticed the strange statement by Marty when he said, "slept right through". which is just as odd as when he had mentioned in another interview about Justin being so quiet he could be around, "without me detecting him." Thanks to both of you for the additional information. Like to add this too, Deborah it is a real plus having an actual relative of Bo's in this forum. Seems Marty was inadvertedly tripping up and indirectly giving himself away in regards to the murders.
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