Why were ALL the weapons left there?

[Chichibcc]

I'm not sure it was all the weapons but it sure seems like at least with the knife and hammer neatly placed next to each other it was almost like a statement from the killers, these were are tools and look what we did with them. Even the bent knife on the floor, distorted and bloody has almost a scarey force of its own, maybe they even thought it looked amusing....."lookie here damn things crooked'. Most likely they left the weapons for the shock value and they knew it was okay to leave them, they were not worried about any forensic evidence that might be gathered from them.

No, it wasn't all the weapons...I had started this thread the day after I joined, and originally thought that the weapons in the CS photos were the only ones used in the crime...but now I know that isn't necessarily true.

I've had that impression, also....the way they were left so neatly on the table tells me that they were left by someone who wasn't exactly in a rush or moving hastily.

[7Scarlet]

I think the killers were showing they didn't give a hoot. It was a smug thing to do, done by someone with a big ego. He might as well have written "Catch me, if you can" on the wall.

I've read different places that the hammer found at the scene was perhaps not the murder weapon...what I have not seen is a report on whether the wounds on the skulls of the victims were compared to the hammer left behind so it could be determined one way or another with any certainty.

[dmac]

No, there is no LE document on any comparisons done between the wounds and any of the 'weapons' posed/left behind in 28. That we are aware of, much less have a copy of.

We do, however, have the ME/autopsy reports. The dimensions of the circular wounds assumed to be from the hammer have more than one diameter listed.

Keep in mind, this thread began over two years ago. It is now crystal clear the killers brought a kill kit and removed and hid/disposed of weapons they brought.

[TREELAND]

Maybe Marilyn really did see a paper bag with a hammer in it in the basement of the cabin she had shared with Marty. She denied this later but it could have been the hammer Marde said had been stolden from his porch, the one he could have used in the murders. In a previous post I wondered of the paper sack had been the one Dana had been seen carrying the day before the murders were discovered. Could have contained his sleep over items including his diabetes supplies, Needles also were reported to have been seen on the basement floor.

[Diphi]

Which basement floor - C28 or C26?

[7Scarlet]

Cabin 26.
If Marilyn ever really saw them there.

[Diphi]

Ok. I remember reading that now. Thanks.

[annesion]

I have seen quite a few posts regarding the murderer(s) having and bringing a ''kill kit''. This makes a lot of sense to me. I infer from the posts that this theory has been talked about. I am gathering the tape, possibly a hammer, and maybe another knife were in the said "kill kit''. Was anything else hypothetically discussed regarding said kit, and if so is there a thread? I hate to bug all of you who've been around for the long haul, but I value the opinions and theories you guys have developed prior to my joining the forum.

[BUTTERFLYVALLEY1]

Well, heck, I guess they could have left autographed framed pictures of themselves there and still walked away unscathed. It is just too much sometimes. No prints, everyone in the crime scene and all wondering through all had the same blood type, no results on any/whatever evidence gathered, Metcalfe's flour flop, lovely boots noticed on one of the pictures of someone questioned during the years since the murders, and not being totally sure of who is alive and who is really dead who may or may not have done the murders.

I guess my frustration has come to bear this evenning. Please erase if you so desire.

[dntblvu]

I have seen quite a few posts regarding the murderer(s) having and bringing a ''kill kit''. This makes a lot of sense to me. I infer from the posts that this theory has been talked about. I am gathering the tape, possibly a hammer, and maybe another knife were in the said "kill kit''. Was anything else hypothetically discussed regarding said kit, and if so is there a thread? I hate to bug all of you who've been around for the long haul, but I value the opinions and theories you guys have developed prior to my joining the forum.

[lynabus]

dntblvu= don't believe you...would make a great personalized license plate..

Was this your original question under the name annesion?
Just curious. I'm going on gut instinct here, but I think there were more perps involved and
I am not sure of the pivotal point where they all met up to converse on the actual murders or if it just happened
out of the blue, which makes no sense, unless they all met at the BDL or outside cabin 28.

That phone call placed to Sue could've been made to see if she was home. Do we know what time that call was made?
Problem I have is MS making that phone call to Jan. I think that is pure BS cause
if MS was already terminated as a cook there, what impact would calling there about a change of
music do? I don't think it would have made a difference.
I think the knives, hammer and table leg were used, as well as another hammer and knife brought in by another perp.

Dumped in the trash by the general store. I think there were 5 total in that cabin and Dee L. called to help with disposal of Tina

[Chichibcc]

That phone call placed to Sue could've been made to see if she was home. Do we know what time that call was made?

Yes-between 9:00-9:30. Source: http://keddie28.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1328&hilit=phone+call

[lynabus]

Thank you for replying to my question.

[Chichibcc]

No problem...from what I've read, when Sue responded, she said something along the lines of, "who is this?" as if she was possibly surprised by who the caller was, or whoever was on the other line remained silent upon the call being answered.

[dmac]

While we need to keep our eyes on the importance of the call, we also should scrutinize the lack of depth in how it was recorded by PCSO on the timeline.

Certainly, a timeline is an extraction/condensation of information. How in the world can anyone derive the meaning of the phone call from how it is dispassionately related? "Sue asked who is this"?!

A wrong number?
Something troubling?
Was it men from Mars?
Did she win a contest from the radio station by picking up the phone?
Did the killer say he was calling from the attic?

That phone call has little meaning to us. It can only matter if there's more info, or if we convincingly tie it in to other info. For us to believe the call was a threat is our own self-induced delusion.

If you want to relate it to something important, look at the reports of the dark van/vehicle seen by so many witnesses. Tie the phone call to other things going on- everyone watching TV. Popcorn? Which show? Was the van already parked out front? How soon after that call did Tina come home? Did she mention the vehicle to the Seabolts or anyone in 28? Why is it the Seabolt girls also noticed that vehicle parked in front of 28, yet no info we have mentions if they were walking Tina home and saying 'good night' to her, or out lighting a house on fire? How is it all of this critical data is not related in these timelines? Even most supporting reports lack basic communication and meaning, depth.

My advice, so deep-six this: If something troubles you, step back and look at the big rather than the small. Regain perspective. Look somewhere else, create your own worthwhile distraction. You become blind by eye fatigue, "wood for the trees" syndrome. When you look back at the topic refreshed, you often immediately see things that were beyond your perception, despite their always being right in front of your nose. It's happened to me so many times, often leading to my "major backtracks" and apologies. Always look around, keep perspective, never focus too closely at one time.

Don't get frustrated, don't go for minutiae, don't get tied down. Zoom in and zoom out often to keep perspective. This puzzle is made of many shifting 3-d pieces, so don't lose sight of the sun, and don't get crushed by the ever-impending falling sky.

And don't ever forget the vehicle parked in front of 28.

[mercy]

I was reading this last week and noticed the mention of the hammer Marilyn said she saw in the paper bag, and today on another thread saw that Marilyn also claimed to have seen a red jacket of Tina's with blood on it in the basement. I'm not finding a lot when I do a search -- does anyone have a good link to these claims? And were they later denied/debunked?

Hope it's okay that I asked this here and not in the newbie thread, but I'll move the post if you want. Thanks!

[Chichibcc]

Marilyn's statement about the jacket was made on a previous Keddie forum back in 2006:

Tina Jacket.JPG

Source: http://keddie28.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1307&p=15688&hilit=tina%27s+jacket#p15688

[dmac]

impressive, Chi! Well done, and with such brutal tact!

As I love to say:

Bingo!

[azucena]

A sweatshirt type jacket, I believe it was red, was found by Ron Varker down by the river several days following the murders and was turned over to PCSO. There is a notation by PCSO that the jacket was received by them, which i have seen posted here but i can't locate it at the moment. Ron Varker and Paula Russell lived near Cabin 28.

[dmac]

Ron V located the sweatshirt, retrieved by PCSO Day on 5-8-81 at 10pm. It was a blue hoodie with a zipper down the front and missing the drawstring. There's a thread that used to have the 4 pages, but they were Josh's links and turned to porn.