Amount of Blood

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Amount of Blood

Postby annesion » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:40 pm

I am kind of just brainstorming here....

I remember in one of the video outtakes the police mentioned that there was blood everywhere. I see a significant amount of blood, but it doesn't seem like enough to account for all the murders to have taken place in that living room. I am sure there are more photos we are not privy to, which may show additional blood information.

I have thought about it and looked at other crime scene photos and it seems that the blood splatter and patterns here are minimal for the amount of brutality and force that was used to actually commit the crime..... looking at the Nicole Brown/Ronald Goldman, Tate house murders, even lesser known crimes such as the murder of Darrel North there was a large amount of blood visible. I also think of the Wonderland murders and the inordinate amount of blood in those bludgeoning deaths in relation to the supposed use of a hammer on some of the Keddie victims.

So my question/speculation (never original I am sure)

1. Dana and Johnny were initially attacked outside of Cabin 28? Is this a possibility?

2. Sue had already been in the process of being attacked in the living room accounting for the blood that was there.

3. Dana and Johnny fatally wounded in the living room after receiving blows at some other location.

4. Crime scene was staged and arranged at or near the time of death for Sue, as her footprints were in blood in the room according to what I've read.

5. Law Enforcement did not account for all the blood evidence? Where is all the blood? Is more evident in other crime scene photos.

6. Was Law Enforcement involved in some manner in the staging/set up of the crime scene after the fact?

7. Did Sheila's account of what she saw ever change in regards to the placement of the bodies in the living room?

Just some musings......
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Re: Amount of Blood

Postby 7Scarlet » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:15 am

annesion wrote:
I am sure there are more photos we are not privy to, which may show additional blood information.
-There have to be photos we aren't privy to, like the boot prints they found in blood in several parts of the house and the bloody fingerprints in the back porch where they got the hammer. We only know what they've told us. They have to have 'hold backs'.

I have thought about it and looked at other crime scene photos and it seems that the blood splatter and patterns here are minimal for the amount of brutality and force that was used to actually commit the crime
-That's true enough, but it is felt that some of the blows to at least Dana with the mysterious 4th weapon, were dealt after he was dead and had mostly bled out. He would still bleed, of course, but the blood wouldn't "project' as it would if his heart were still beating or he was still moving.

So my question/speculation (never original I am sure)

1. Dana and Johnny were initially attacked outside of Cabin 28? Is this a possibility?
-It's possible, but unlikely. It's more probable the boys walked in and the killers knew they were coming, and they were controlled right away. There wasn't much of a struggle coming from anyone but Sue, it seems like (I leave Tina out because we don't know what happened to her). Dana and Johnny had virtually no defensive wounds, and both had wounds to the backs of their heads...I think perhaps they were incapacitated right away and killed while unconcious.

2. Sue had already been in the process of being attacked in the living room accounting for the blood that was there.
-There was blood in the bedroom too, we just don't know how much, but there was enough that we do know which makes it seem that is where the attack started.

3. Dana and Johnny fatally wounded in the living room after receiving blows at some other location.
- It's possible too that they weren't attacked at the same time or in the same room. It would be excellent if we knew who picked them up and dropped them off. Did they walk in the front door, or go around the back into Johnny's room? We'll never know the answer to this. Probably, they were in Johnny's basement room and heard something, and came up the back stairs, through the back porch, and into the kitchen...where there was also some blood, but we don't know how much. They may not even have come up at the same time, which would have made it easier to control them when they did. They might nto have even heard anything, and came up one at at time to go to the bathroom, or to get something to eat or drink.

6. Was Law Enforcement involved in some manner in the staging/set up of the crime scene after the fact?
-I don't think so. But there are people who may disagree with me. I think they were gravely inexperienced, had never seen anything like this before, and didn't know what to do with what they had. I don't think they intentionally messed up this case...right away. They do continue to choose to eff it up though.

7. Did Sheila's account of what she saw ever change in regards to the placement of the bodies in the living room?
-The version of events she tells in her book is not the same as the version of events she told the board. But I don't think her version of body placement has changed. Johnny at the door...Dana in the middle...her Mom by the couch. Sheila's version changed, so did James Seabolt's. How did they know the boys were alive? Good guess/instinct, must be.

In Deleted Scene 5 on You Tube, Sheila is talking to someone right after the murders, and although her voice is very soft and I'm partially deaf, I can pick up a few lines about what her Uncle Don told her and what Richard Meeks said he found 'by the tracks'. Her Uncle told her, and she didn't believe it to be true, that Dana had killed Sue and Johnny, and Tina had killed him and took off. And then Richard...something...by the tracks but they were too big to be Tina's...the person interviewing her asks which Richard she means and she says "Richard Meeks'. What was Richard Meeks doing up by the tracks in the days following the murders? Just wondering. And no wonder people thought Tina was a culprit, if her own uncle thought it might be so and told people that. Weirdness.


Just some musings......
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Re: Amount of Blood

Postby dmac » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:16 pm

annesion wrote:police mentioned that there was blood everywhere. I see a significant amount of blood, but it doesn't seem like enough to account for all the murders to have taken place in that living room. I am sure there are more photos we are not privy to, which may show additional blood information.

Welcome to assholes in LE telling bullshit tales. That can be sourced mainly to total LE pigs like DeCrona. Look him up and you won't get far, other than he's a greedy pig who needs to be criminally prosecuted. Trust me, if you use SEARCH for DECRONA, you will be disturbed.

annesion wrote:blood splatter and patterns here are minimal for the amount of brutality and force that was used to actually commit the crime..."

Look deeper, they have nothing to do with what happened in 28 or why. Why compare Earhart to Charles Lindbergh?

annesion wrote:1. Dana and Johnny were initially attacked outside of Cabin 28? Is this a possibility?

Bullshit, it's not remotely likely Dana or Johnny were targets, much less abused and brought back to 28. More laughable ideas that have been tabled by 1000 prior folks, including myself. I looked at all options, and Dana and Johnny being abused and brought to 28 is pure stupidity. Sue was attacked in bed.

annesion wrote:2. Sue had already been in the process of being attacked in the living room accounting for the blood that was there.

Sure, read on about how it began in the bedroom. You have no clue about blood in the living room. You WANT spray and bits of brain matter all over the room for it to fit your needs. Too bad, this crime is real, and involves four dead people murdered by Severin John Boubede and Martin Smartt and Marylin Smartt and others. How they did it is complicated by how many were involved and why it began and how it ended and how it went down. They DID it, and others covered it up.

annesion wrote:3. Dana and Johnny fatally wounded in the living room after receiving blows at some other location.

New Jersey? I always blame New Jersey, don't you?

annesion wrote:4. Crime scene was staged and arranged at or near the time of death for Sue, as her footprints were in blood in the room according to what I've read.

Read a lot more. a LOT MORE. Search this forum for 'footprints' and you find Sue's bare bloody feet, NOT bloody boots. Where the hell did that bullshit idea come from, that bits of carpet were cut out to retain bootprints? OH! Idiot FOOLS managed to make a blood splotch into a killer's bootprint. Look at the damned photos and you see BEFORE AND AFTER shots of the same places. No boots. No boot prints. Just spots where victims bled out MULTIPLE DAMNED TIMES. THE GODDAMNED CUSHION UNDER DANA HAD BLOOD SEEPED DEEPLY IN BOTH SIDES, so figure out how the cushion was randomly tossed under Dana at the end of the staging? BULLSHIT, the cushion was used to kill, MULTIPLE times.

annesion wrote:5. Law Enforcement did not account for all the blood evidence? Where is all the blood? Is more evident in other crime scene photos.

Check your freezer.

annesion wrote:6. Was Law Enforcement involved in some manner in the staging/set up of the crime scene after the fact?

LOL

annesion wrote:7. Did Sheila's account of what she saw ever change in regards to the placement of the bodies in the living room?

Nope, cred where cred is due. Sheila remembers many details. But what is 1000 times funnier is Doug Thomas saying Sue was on the couch. Where does that baboon come up with such a bullshit story? Look at those that can't recall the crime scene.

uhh... sorry if I'm blunt but I'd rather be straightforward than illiterate. A load of work has already been done to solve every angle you mentioned, and you can easily find them via the search function. If you type "tina rape" into the search box, you will find every person in Nevada got Tina pregnant, but she lived in CA so they couldn't prosecute

Anyway, I hope you don't take my response wrong, I am trying to answer your Qs while also showing you could have worked just a tad harder, and answered all your own Qs with a lick of research. Not that it would sate your opinion of WHY or HOW, but it would have given you the background to voice a legitimate opinion.
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Re: Amount of Blood

Postby annesion » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:44 pm

dmac....no I didn't take offense.

The one thing I want to clarify is that I don't think the boys were the targets, I thought if more people were involved in the commission of the crime they don't all need to be in the same place all the time the crime is occurring. If this is true neither did the victims at first. As in they one or more of them, have Sue in the house. They one or more heard the boys, confronted them coming in; or maybe someone like (forgive me if the name is wrong) but Mr. Lake, is outside the residence, subdues/distracts/accompanies/etc. the boys into the residence. I am not convinced that it was only Marty and Bo who committed the crimes. I could see additional murderers in the crime, and definitely in the staging/cover-up of the scene.

You get that this forum is huge, and a lot of threads include rants and extraneous ''interpersonal'' shit that makes it difficult to navigate at times. I respect all the work you have done on the case. My intention is to try to cut through as much bullshit as possible. You seem to be the repository of knowledge as you have been working diligently to try to bring resolution to the issue. It must at times get frustrating for those of us who are new to the case to postulate theories, etc., on shit you guys have rehashed for years.
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Re: Amount of Blood

Postby Chichibcc » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:28 am

annesion wrote: It must at times get frustrating for those of us who are new to the case to postulate theories, etc., on shit you guys have rehashed for years.


It doesn't really bother me...all new members do this to one degree or another. I know I most certainly did when I first joined here.

But doing so, in a way, is good...because how can new ideas/theories emerge if you don't know what the previous ones are to begin with?
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Re: Amount of Blood

Postby newbie » Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:02 pm

I am new to this forum. I started reading yesterday and haven't stopped for long I am intrigued. I just moved to the area, and found out my neighbor was a LE on the case. I think that if a struggle/fight occurred in that living room, that cage, TV tray, bookshelf, curtains,stool would be all in disarray. If all three were in the room at the same time being attacked. If two were in the room. If one was in the room. Anything not nailed down would be tipped or knocked over or picked up to defend themselves. The living room does not fit. :?:
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Re: Amount of Blood

Postby 7Scarlet » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:47 pm

newbie wrote: If all three were in the room at the same time being attacked. If two were in the room. If one was in the room. Anything not nailed down would be tipped or knocked over or picked up to defend themselves. The living room does not fit. :?:


If you look closely at what evidence we do have available, the probablity that this was a situation that was immediately under control becomes apparent.

The killers came upon Sue (and therefore, Tina), while she was asleep in her bed. She was a small woman, and at a great disadvantage. It would be nothing for multiple men to subdue her at once. My opinion is that the boys were not in the house at this time. They came in later on, the killers were waiting for them, and they too were taken off guard and subdued immediately, probably from behind, maybe to the side, but not head on, face to face. They were beaten unconcious and murdered then. Sue was at some point dragged into the living room to bleed out on the carpet along with them, causing the bloody footprints by Johnny's body.

This wasn't a hard thing for at least two and probably three men to do.
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Re: Amount of Blood

Postby annesion » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:49 pm

7Scarlet wrote:the killers were waiting for them, and they too were taken off guard and subdued immediately, probably from behind, maybe to the side, but not head on, face to face.

You think the murders were waiting for Johnny to come home? I would guess nobody expected Dana to be there as well. Why were they waiting for him in your opinion?
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Re: Amount of Blood

Postby 7Scarlet » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:08 pm

I just meant that I believe the killers subdued Sue first, hurting her, binding her... and that when John came inside they were there and prepared to take him out too. I don't think he saw it coming. I don't necessarily think they planned to kill John & Dana, and I don't believe they were the targets...but they were definitely ready for them when they did arrive.

They may have been alerted to their arrival because they heard the kids come in, or because someone told them they were coming.
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Re: Amount of Blood

Postby Princess » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:16 pm

Or Bo and Marty were caught of guard because the Boys were downstairs and heard the commotion going on upstairs and went to check to see what the hell was going on.
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