Fly on the Wall Answer

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby dmac » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:30 am

Imagine you could talk to ONE person who knows the truth of the crimes, and that you can openly and freely discuss the true nature of this crime. Who would YOU choose to talk with, and why?
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby LizzieB » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:08 am

I want the answer as to why the murders happened more than I want to know how. So, I'd choose Marty, because I think he was the driving force behind it all, and therefore the motive lies with him.

Give us your answer, too, dmac.
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby jhancock » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:25 am

Off the top of my head, I'd go with Dee. When I posted that quote from him the other day, I ended up sitting down and watching almost all of his interview. And though his lies are now easily detectable (for example, he says he had no car when his car was parked in Keddie; he makes a vague reference to a rifle but does not add that the rifle was his), I also got the sense that he wanted to say more. He also seemed to know Marty quite well. I just get the feeling that he knows so much more, and that there is a part of him, however small, that wants to come clean. You often hear of people saying that someone will confess on his or her deathbed; he would be my vote for the one person in this case to do that.
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby frida » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:08 pm

I would talk to Sue. I want to know if she had any idea why she was being victimized. I would ask about her relationship with the Meeks family.
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby LizzieB » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:10 pm

dmac wrote:Think bigger, because Marty has no damned clue why LE covered his ass.
"Think bigger...." Oh, dmac!!! I just love when you kick me in the ass!!! Just when I think I have a handle on things, like a genuine friend, you're there to tell me how fucking stupid I am! I just adore you!!!

EDIT: NO sarcasm intended in this post. Although intimated at first, I really do love your style.
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby TinyDancer » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:55 pm

I actually spent an afternoon with Mrs. Meeks (Glenna) and Marilyn. But this was so many years ago. I'd sure like to see them again with all the new info and perspective I have now.
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby LizzieB » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:13 am

I've put some time into reading up on Bo and had no idea he was such a mystery for so long. As with everything in this case, once an answer is found, two more questions pop up. I'm now wondering if it was Bo or Marty that 'made' this crime happen. Like, if Bo was in town, but staying at someone else's house, would the murders have happened? Did Marty's company encourage Bo's murderous ways? Was Marty trying to impress Bo, or the other way around? If Bo wasn't there, would Marty have done this on his own, or with a different partner? Was the mix of their personalities a fatal combination?

My answer as to who I'd like to talk to about the murders, openly and honestly, is to talk with the 'fire starter' of the crimes. I still am deciding as to who I think that person is. Ohhh, can't I just pick both?!?
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby azucena » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:02 pm

After much thought, I think I would talk to Tina. Although she was only a child, sometimes children are remarkably astute and tend to be more honest than adults. I think she saw it all and may have heard discussions in the days before that no one knew she had heard.
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby greyhound » Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:14 am

I realise I've not written in a while; however, this is a VERY intriguing question. I must say that I'm still going to go with a theory I've had all along.

I'd ask Sheila's husband, Richard. Yes, I too agree that Marty and Bo did probably do the actual killing or at least a sloppy job at staging. Who knows, maybe they got off from playing with/repositioning dead bodies. It would not surprise me. But, I truly believe there was more than just Marty and Bo involved in this. I keep coming back to the Meeks because of their closeness to the Sharps.

I'd ask Richard if he knew how this murder happened. Even if he wasn't there, I think he knew exactly what occurred that night. I think Sheila also may have known it was going to happen; although, I don't think she had any idea what the reality of it would cost. If she does know – and I think she probably does, think of all the guilt she must feel about her brother and her sister – not to mention Dana – being dead.

Of course, the murders were committed by someone who knew the family. Sue has always been considered the main target and the rest bystanders. I sincerely think this murder was committed over Sheila giving her child up for adoption. Does anyone not also find it ironic all of this went down shortly after Sheila returned from giving birth and then giving the baby away? I think the Meeks didn't want to see this happen. Just as importantly, I think it was Sheila who didn't want to give her baby away. We all know how impressionable younger teenagers can be and perhaps Sheila make the odd comment that she wished her mother was dead, as teenagers often do. Say she did and the Meeks actually talked about it in jest at first and then it escalated.

As for Marty and Bo, they come in because Marty also knows the Meeks. He's hung out at their house. Mrs Meeks even said Marty was at her house the night of the murders acting high and crazy. She knew what he wanted to go back to Keddie for. She knew all along.

Having said all that, I hope that the ideas I commented/speculated on have not been too forward. I don't mean to be uncouth but in the interest of truth sometimes it can't be avoided.

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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby dmac » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:28 pm

Welcome back (I hope), greyhound.

TinyDancer, welcome back as well! When did you spend the afternoon with Meeks/Loon? Was that the trip folks from Jesse's board took to Keddie?

The Meeks have been touched upon a lot lately, and it does bring up aspects of the longstanding (and once-predominant) belief that the Sheila-Meeks angle casts a heavy and ugly shadow on the case (and it does, but the old theory was they planned and executed the murders). Try these recent posts: Mere Meeks Coincidences and Dee's Gun.

About eighteen months ago, I spoke with Richard for a couple hours, and he cleared up so many things, including multiple simple questions Sheila blatantly refused to answer (my bet is because they dealt with uncle Dan Davis, and the Meeks, and why her story and Richard's don't match on PCSO timelines, and stuff about 'unsavories' like the Bazes, whose dad Sue had dated). He was incredibly forthcoming, offering tons of information, never conflicting or contradictory in his story.

I currently stand by Bo, Marty, Marilyn and Dee as directly involved. There are certainly others, some whom friends and I have been digging into for years and still cannot openly discuss. Even the cops had/have a longstanding belief that a Third Perp was involved in the actual killings, yet they never looked at Dee or Loon. The hopelessly stupid Loonibi was concocted and utilized by ALL FOUR OF THEM, and anyone using that alibi deserves a red laser dot on their foreheads. LE, instead, focused on others that have no tangible connection to the Smartts or the Sharps, or even the Meeks. Why is it the real "third perp" suspects are NEVER MENTIONED in LE documents we've seen? Coincidence? Right, that's coincidence 4,298,551,027 in this case.

As to why so many were involved? This 'hit' was no accident. It was deliberate, premeditated. Marty, Bo, and Loon are the main characters involved for now, because their involvement is so obvious. Each of them are sociopaths, and each had their own motives for doing that crime. Likewise, the other parties involved (including LE) must be sociopaths to be directly involved in, or assist in the ongoing cover-up of, these murders. Each have their own reasons. People argue motive, like it's a physical entity with a singular manifestation. Nope, this case is overflowing with motives.

Hope to see you back and involved more, Greyhound.
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby jhancock » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:12 pm

D, can you share more of your conversation with Richard?
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby dmac » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:17 pm

I did take notes, but they are CRAP. I wish I'd recorded it, but I wasn't compelled to believe Richard would chat- much less agree to call and have me record it. It began as a text chat, and then a phone call/video conference thang. He had a vidcam on the visor of his ball cap, walking around his home. Alot of it is lost to the wind, because my memory is toast and I couldn't write notes fast enough to keep up with his pace.

Credit to Richard, he kept talking and offering info without me needing to pose a Q. Unlike anyone else, he regards his memory as "perfect recall", and proves it with fluent displays on any given topic/angle from 1981. He really was remarkable that night, because his nature was buoyant, expressive, and relaxed, despite the topic. He seemed glad someone was asking bigger questions than "Do you remember Keddie". For instance, I asked about the Bazes and he told me all of that, including where the Brown trailer park was and who owned it and the boundaries of the park. I asked about how his timeline and Sheila's are whack on the "official" PCSO timeline, and he scoffs. He knows they were at the Bazes that afternoon. He also knows Johnny and Dana would not have traveled roads thru E Quincy to Keddie from the Dorris home. He offered that they would have gone across fields directly to a bridge over the river, then carry on across fields to the mouth of the canyon, by Gansner Field. DUH, I did the same thing at that age, crossing vast fields to visit friends, making a bee-line instead of following roads.

I asked about the "arcade" always mentioned in documents, and he spent ten minutes detailing that. The arcade was, in fact, first in the old bowling alley by the stores (all since demolished). They moved it to the barn-like structure kitty-corner from where the Meeks lived (it's now a thrift store) [also, by the way, this is where everyone describes Marty as mouthing off and threatening the Meeks]. I think I already told this story, but lets see how well I recall it. The owners of the arcade moved it into the new digs, and lived upstairs. Richard was almost like third key because he helped them lug the equipment down--- on hand trucks/dollies on the streets and sidewalks. He mentioned the owners' names and I wrote it down, and he said he kinda lived there, spending all his free time there. On the Friday before the murders, he said Johnny wasn't lost or at some LSD party, as rumors dictate. He was, in fact, spending the night with the Meeks, and that meant spending the majority of the evening at the arcade. Somehow, Johnny and Walter (the Meeks boy who is Johnny's age) got into a tiff/argument over something, so they left the arcade. Yes, they had a doorway all their own to the boys' downstairs bedrooms (like Johnny did), No, mom had no clue if they were coming or going, but they weren't dicks about having that freedom. Johnny and Walter and Richard went to bed, with no hard feelings over the minor tussle. They woke up, probably had breakfast together upstairs, then Richard can't recall where Johnny went til he saw him later in the day.

Honestly, either he was offering pure truth, or he's a natural-born liar. Too much of it is factual for me to know, because a NBL playa knows to coat both sides of a conversation with facts in order to slip in the lies.

Personally, I have no reason to believe anything he told me was untruthful. He talked about MANY things, many of them too private for display here, and I was alarmed by his generosity and warmth, his humor and, overall, his candor. I never had to pry details from him, he was never hesitating or ponderous. Once he knew the Q, he he would answer it and a 100 other things at the same time.

I'd have to find my notes to bring up other topics, but my point is made: he did most of the talking, was happy I knew details of the case, and exploited it in a most curious way: he spilled all he could on any weird thing that came up. He hid nothing.
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby Chichibcc » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:25 pm

greyhound wrote:Of course, the murders were committed by someone who knew the family. Sue has always been considered the main target and the rest bystanders. I sincerely think this murder was committed over Sheila giving her child up for adoption. Does anyone not also find it ironic all of this went down shortly after Sheila returned from giving birth and then giving the baby away?


& I used to think I was the only one who thought this... never considered it a possibility until watching Part 2.

However, when Nancy Bowman, one of the psychics featured, stated there is "one particular person that is in the picture, but people don't realize it....."the baby was the first person that came to mind.

I've always thought I was crazy for even thinking this (and still do) but it has been one of those "nagging thoughts" about this case that I've had since seeing that interview.

In this scenario, Sue would've certainly been the target, given that she most likely encouraged/pressured Sheila to give up the baby, thinking that the baby would have a better, easier life that way, which I can completely understand.

I'm not convinced that the Meeks, particularly Mrs. Meeks, saw it that way, though.

If this was the reason, it would have been more logical to commit the murders on a night that Sheila would NOT be home...after all, what would be the point of punishing the mother of the baby, when the decision may not have been completely hers to make?

But to get back to the original topic of this post, if there was one person related to the case I could talk to, it would probably be Sue, since I've always considered her to be the main target-and would like to gain more insight on understanding why that might have been (whether it was over the adoption, or something else entirely).
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby jhancock » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:25 pm

In hindsight, I wish I had cut some of the psychic material out; not so much the tape of Dixie, who at least was there, in the sheriff's office, talking with Doug. I find that somewhat relevant and an interesting document. But the others probably did not need to be there--as nice as they were. We caught one of them--I won't say which one--in a flat-out lie, but it was after the DVD was out. She had gotten information about a suspect's name beforehand, then pretended that the suspect's initials just came to her (fortunately, what she "revealed" was not in the final cut anyway). I had one other reason to include the scene in the woods, strictly from a filmmaking point of view--but I won't say what that reason was here. I bet you all can figure it out!
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby 7Scarlet » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 am

I'm gonna go with Wade Meeks.

While I have come to agree that Marty & Bo were killers 1 & 2, I really believe killer #3 was someone a lot closer to the Sharps' than either of them. Someone with more of a personal connection that triggered the murders when the three of them got together that night.
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby 7Scarlet » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:16 pm

I started coming to that conclusion quite awhile ago, based on a whole bunch of different things. I don't know if I am right about Wade (I'm not 100% on him, he just feels the best to me), but I really think we're not only both Atheists, but we're in right on Guy #3 who is really #1. I've considered TtG too, but what do we know about him that we can draw a line to him and point? How can we flesh him out as you say? I'd be more than happy to get out my shovel and dig if I knew where to begin.

Who else could it be? TtG or Wade...someone else who was at the bar we haven't thought of? I like Wade best because he fits the best given what we know, and some of what we suspect to be true (like the real attitude the Meeks's had toward Sue, Sheila, and the baby girl), or that Wade always seems to be right in the middle, but elusive at the same time. Not to mention the obvious, that he looks like the original composite. He had a car. A connection to the family like no one else, and as far as I know has never answered one serious question regarding the murders to anyone. Because no one has asked. He's nowhere to be found, living in Reno now with his wife. Even Marilyn, when she was on the old board, kept saying "too bad Wade wouldn't come here and answer...he would know" yes Mariloon, too bad he wouldn't. Because he does know.

I understand people are freaks and murderous monsters who kill people at random like this for no reason. But this was a personal crime that had nothing to do, for the most part, with Sue trying to talk Marilyn into divorcing Marty, or rejecting Bo's offer of drink (if that even happened, I don't think it did). Someone instigated this, either inside the bar or outside afterward, and Marty & Bo went along with it. Marty even found fault with it afterward. He didn't like the torture and the overkill. He'd have been in and out. If he'd been in charge it would have been over quickly. But it wasn't his fire to put out.

I could babble about it all evening so I guess I should hush now.
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby LizzieB » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:01 pm

7Scarlet wrote:I could babble about it all evening so I guess I should hush now.
You're not babbling. Very well written, and fun to read!
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby azucena » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:15 pm

These last posts point to one thing that has always baffled me about the possible perps:
Clearly, there is a longstanding and deeply entrenched cover- up that has gone on here with PCSO , DOJ, and likely higher. My question is WHO are they protecting for all this time? We all have suspicions it is Bo, but if he is really deceased and no longer a part of the picture, why continue to maintain this cover up?

If we look at any of the remaining POIs , from what i know, I just cannot imagine LE STILL covering for Dee Lake, Marilyn, Wade Meeks, nor Tony the Greek nor, frankly any of the other potential suspects that have been tossed around.

Thus this brings me to: since we know PCSO made such a mess of this whole case, is there a third/first still UNKNOWN perp? Could it be someone within LE ranks? Someone who they think has a whole lot to lose if this case were to be officially solve?, AND WHO is it?
In my mind it has to be someone who either LE feels is worth protecting or one of them, or someone who remains a total unknown and in this instance LE might not be
directly involved in a cover up, but rather has no idea who is this person is. ( not likely in my mind)
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby not sure » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:47 am

I want to talk to Rick Sharp.
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Re: Fly on the Wall Answer

Postby sarajean79 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:48 am

Definitely a member of LE, although I have to admit i am still not sure which one and I am a newbie with lots more to read and learn. Of course Sue would have all the answers,that's the obvious answer. Considering the amount of cover up and blatant disregard for the truth by the police I want to know why. Great question btw!
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