Why does this bother me?

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

Why does this bother me?

Postby CarolynS2012 » Fri May 25, 2012 3:13 pm

When Sheila and her brother were in the cabin arguing over where the couch was, someone in the background said "sibling rivalry". Um, no that's not sibling rivalry, that's a disagreement dude. I don't know if it was meant to be cute, but it wasn't. Again, I have no idea why that grates my nerves! :lol:
CarolynS2012
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 9:49 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Chichibcc » Fri May 25, 2012 5:08 pm

Yes, I remember that scene and it seems pretty trivial in the whole scheme of things, but given that Sue liked to rearrange the furniture often, I can see why Sheila was confused about what the layout was like then, even though Rick's recollection was correct.
User avatar
Chichibcc
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:08 am
Has thanked: 656 times
Been thanked: 239 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby dmac » Fri May 25, 2012 5:19 pm

Good point, glad you brought it up. People, please look out all the outtakes again, particularly the "Cabin Tour" videos Carolyn speaks of. Here's the three videos of the cabin tour Rick and Sheila gave to Josh/crew. Is this sibling rivalry, or one person trying to control the other / trying to manipulate what the perceptions are? What did Rick and Sheila have to say to each other afterwards? Was this the only contribution by Rick, and he refused to participate after? Why did Rick participate in this? Lots of Qs, and we'll never get to the bottom of it, but please at least watch these videos again:

Part one of the Cabin 28 tour:



Part two of the Cabin 28 tour:



The third and final installment of the Cabin 28 tour:

"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3210
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 709 times
Been thanked: 2666 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Chichibcc » Fri May 25, 2012 5:30 pm

To be honest, I'm still shocked that Rick was willing to go back to the cabin at all, and do so on camera also-I used to think that maybe he decided to do so to see if that would help to "jog" his memory somewhat.

That had to be a pretty HUGE step for him to take, yet he refused to participate further beyond that point, for some reason, which I found mystifying. I guess we'll never know why.
User avatar
Chichibcc
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:08 am
Has thanked: 656 times
Been thanked: 239 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Cheshire » Fri May 25, 2012 5:39 pm

CarolynS2012 wrote:When Sheila and her brother were in the cabin arguing over where the couch was, someone in the background said "sibling rivalry". Um, no that's not sibling rivalry, that's a disagreement dude. I don't know if it was meant to be cute, but it wasn't. Again, I have no idea why that grates my nerves! :lol:


It's a natural response, stemming from a desire to be helpful, that causes people to jump in and "rescue" by making a joke, trying to supply an answer, prompting, or otherwise filling any silence or distracting from any tension during an interview, but it completely derails the natural, sometimes uncomfortable, process. Any nice, caring person would be tempted to do the same -- especially in a situation as horrific as this one-- but it is more helpful if the person bites their tongue and lets things play out. Maybe that's what you're sensing that is grating your nerves, Carolyn.
Cheshire
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:34 pm
Has thanked: 155 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Cheshire » Fri May 25, 2012 5:54 pm

At approx 2:30 on the 2nd clip Sheila says "I think Michelle would have said it was a hide-a-bed". Who is Michelle??
Cheshire
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:34 pm
Has thanked: 155 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Cheshire » Fri May 25, 2012 5:59 pm

Also 2nd clip, at approx 3 mins, Sheila says that "Heather was telling me that Tina was grabbing phone cord from here [the girls room] and helping them out". Who is Heather?
Cheshire
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:34 pm
Has thanked: 155 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby not sure » Fri May 25, 2012 6:05 pm

I believe Michelle is the Sharp's cousin and Heather is a friend that accompanied them during the shoot.
User avatar
not sure
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:52 pm
Location: stuck in the middle with you
Has thanked: 351 times
Been thanked: 259 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Cheshire » Fri May 25, 2012 6:10 pm

Sounds like Michelle must have spent a lot of time there, if Sheila would defer to her re: whether the couch was a hide-a-bed. I'm surprised to have not heard about her.

EDIT: Guess I need to go back and re-watch Part 1. Still, it would be helpful to hear more from her.
Cheshire
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:34 pm
Has thanked: 155 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby SGRider » Tue May 29, 2012 2:35 am

"Rick did you ever come back in here?" "I thought I did but Sheila told me I didn't."
User avatar
SGRider
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:45 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby CarolynS2012 » Wed May 30, 2012 6:13 am

I always wondered about that brother and what happened to him. I forgot that he was just a little guy when this happened. Actually, isn't Sheila the only sibling we really hear from? He didn't look like he was too thrilled to be in that cabin. Not that anyone would, but at least Sheila was a little enthusiastic about showing "us" around. I also didn't find the disagreement all that serious. I just think that people get a little annoyed when they feel that they are right in their memories and someone tells them they are wrong and he looked annoyed. I think I would be too. My mother has a bad habit of telling me some of my memories are wrong or the way I remember an event is wrong when I KNOW I am right and it really annoys me so I can see where he would be annoyed. This is where his family members were murdered and he was a helpless child; just let him have what little memories he has and be done, even if they are a little off. It's really neither here nor there anymore anyhow.
CarolynS2012
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 9:49 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Stay_zee » Thu May 31, 2012 11:10 am

It seems to me that Rick is particularly sad during the tour. I may be reading more into it than really exists, but I've always felt a sadness watching him. I do wish he would have spoken more with out sheila being present though. Just to expand on what he feels or thinks may have happened. I can understand him wanting to put everything behind him and move on with his life, especially if he is having surviors remorse.
Stay_zee
 

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby jhancock » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:23 pm

NS is right; Michelle is their cousin and Heather was someone who was helping with the documentary at that time. Her "sibling rivalry" comment was just an attempt to inject a little levity; Heather was pretty approachable and I think Rick and Sheila felt comfortable with her there. EDIT: Michelle and Tammie both were early supporters and incredibly helpful while the project was percolating.

Forgive me, this took place years ago--but to the best of my memory, this all happened quickly and organically. We were there, and suddenly we were inside shooting. I don't think Rick had too much time to think about what was about to take place. I always appreciated him doing this, and hoped it would lead to more, but it never did.

Now the other Sharp brother, Greg, is blasting us on Facebook for making money off the tragedy and questioning why he hasn't seen a dime. Disappointing to say the least and too reminiscent of Justin for my taste. However, I do understand the misconceptions about money when people witness you selling a product. It's natural for others to think you're raking it in. I was just surprised that this was how Greg chose to vocalize his concerns.
jhancock
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:59 am
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 273 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby CarolynS2012 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:23 am

I didn't see where he did that, but like you said it's pretty common for people to feel that way. What I can't stand are people that state that they will no speak with anyone without seeing cash first. I would think if you thought that this crime against people you care about had any chance at all to be solved, you would talk to anyone that would listen; not for money, but for justice and closure. Also, he could've contacted you personally and asked you questions and talked to you. You have always been pretty open with everyone as far as questions and concerns go.
CarolynS2012
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 9:49 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Chichibcc » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:55 pm

I'm sorry to hear that Greg feels that way.

However, I was never under the impression that Josh never created these documentaries as a "money-making" venture-he did so because he has a strong desire to see the case solved, just like the rest of us.

Plus, if I were a surviving Sharp family member, I personally wouldn't be comfortable with receiving any possible revenue from the documentaries-I would just be grateful that there was someone who was interested in helping my family at all, like Oksooner pointed out. After all, very few families of murder victims get the opportunity to do something like this.

I wonder if this money dispute has probably factored (at least in part) into Greg's decision not to participate. Sad.
User avatar
Chichibcc
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:08 am
Has thanked: 656 times
Been thanked: 239 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Breberry » Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:27 am

Hello, my first post. I got interested in this case when I came across it on WebSlueths and I watched the cabin tour on you tube. I have been reading this forum and the Keddie Cold case non-stop. What bothered me in particular was Ricks demeanor compared to Sheilas. He seemed really somber but Sheila, not so much, she just seems to act like it was no big deal, it's just a very odd reaction in my opinion. I have not done near as much research as all of you have so I dont know if its just me or not. I really dont want to upset anybody, just giving my thoughts on watching it for the first time. Could somebody tell me what her relationship is with the Meeks and if she is still posting here? I really hope this case can be solved. Im really nervous about posting here because I really dont know anything about this unlike all of you, I cannot imagine the amount the amount of time and work you have all put in to this, I hope the surviving members are eternally grateful for all you people have done for them. I have done a significant amount of reading on these forums but I do have some questions if someone with the time or patience could message me I would really appreciate it.
Breberry
 

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby IPO » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:18 pm

I think Rick was uncomfortable because he knows far more than he has shared. While he was too young to understand the why behind the murders, I do believe he was awake and knows at least a couple of the "who". I also don't think this was a close family. Sue was in over her head raising three teenagers and two young active boys on her own. Her siblings also had families and were unable to give her much support in raising her children. Financially she and her brother and sister all seemed to be struggling. After Sue's death, Sheila, Rick and Greg seemed to thrive quite well in foster homes. Perhaps she should have (after her separation from her husband) turned all five of her children over to Social Services until she was able to get on her feet. I think that poor Tina needed attention and wasn't getting it in the home that she lived in. i'm still appalled that after her body (skull) was found and buried that her three siblings didn't raise funds to put a headstone on her grave. At some point (before Josh arrived in the scene), I feel that the three of them could have come up with at least the amount of money to show respect for poor Tina by putting a headstone on her grave.

There were secrets in that family, and Sheila, Rick and Greg are holding onto them. its too bad Tina hadn't been safely at the Seaboldt's that night. if anyone knew and would have shared the truth behind the family secrets it probably would have been Tina.
IPO
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:48 pm
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby dmac » Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:53 am

Greg (the youngest) initially told LE he woke up during the crimes. When corrupt DOJ Crim and Bradley 'interviewed' him in the cramped confines of Uncle Don's trailer, they mysteriously had a recorder malfunction (they turned the deck off) and made no record of what Greg said. Justin, at some point, told LE what he saw and was then harassed into silence. Jamie Seabolt, after pulling the boys from the window, initially told LE he went up the back stairs and checked out the cabin interior for survivors. He subsequently changed his story to say he never went inside. No mention is made ANYWHERE in documents we have of the condition of the kitchen, or Johnny's room downstairs. I believe Justin, I believe Jamie, and I believe Greg when they made these initial statements.

I chalk Rick's demeanor up to several things. Firstly, I don't know him, never met him, and have no claims about his general demeanor. I do know he seems more reserved and socially cautious than either of his siblings. Secondly, all the boys were awake during the murders. Nobody in that house could sleep through any of that- even Johnny and Dana were probably already home, downstairs in Johnny's remote bedroom, running upstairs when they heard hell break loose. Most importantly, Sheila has been the sole mouthpiece of and for those surviving kids, and she wants it that way. She admits to telling her younger brothers never to speak of it, and of enforcing that doctrine. She forced them to bury it all. Rick was abused by killers, then abused further by PCSO and CA-DOJ. Then Sheila tells him never to talk about it.

Jump decades forward to the cabin walk-through. Josh wasn't there, it was arranged, conducted, and filmed by his nameless, uncredited slave crew, the same nameless bunch who did the real research and legwork on all of Josh's crapumentaries (they had no control over Josh's conduct or lies, nor over final cut, and quit in absolute disgust of him). Still, they're the ones who coaxed Rick to be on-camera and, as soon as he did, Sheila jumped on him: Sheila interrupts, talks over him, and contradicts him incessantly. What makes it all the worse is each of Rick's recollections are proved to be accurate and true, while each of Sheila's interjections are false.

Unfortunately, to a large degree, it seems Rick is still obliging all the fraudulent wishes of PCSO, CA-DOJ, and Sheila.

When considering Sheila, and without getting into too much depth, her situation was horrible. The whole family was a screwed up, scrambled mess- and the kids deserved none of the shit they were dealt. No child deserves what they went through. Looking at her behavior as "Keeper of the Flame" on this case is a tough thing. Having effectively silenced all other memories and opinions from siblings, she's had a stranglehold on the 'facts' of the case. Her facts, unfortunately, are not factual. Why she's had such a long-running feud with reality and facts is up to debate.

She effectively stopped interacting with the forum when Josh released Part 2. Months later, several of us were chatting about her history of falsehoods and outright lies. I forgot to delete the chat archive, so meankitty read it the following morning and made sure Sheila and her hubby-du-jour read it. That led to a lot of mudslinging, threats, gung-fu air guitar, and BS, with Sheila saying we are a pretentious bunch of sick asswipes who get off by insulting murder victims and survivors. Then she swore off the forum and all of the work she'd begged us to do. After that, she and her scumbag husband ('Sifu' Richard Whittle) wrote a trash book on the case, with much of her information stolen directly from the work of those she'd begged for help, lied to, then called losers. Us. Well, look at what she did with her memories of the case:

http://www.keddiemurders.com/
http://www.FreeSpiritBooks.com/
http://www.keddiemurders.com/Naughty-Dr ... guide.html

You should have seen the disgusting 'promo' vids Tofu Dick, as he became known, did for his porno cocktail book. Several of us saw them on YouTube, but he's apparently since deleted them. Out of shame, or fear of being discovered by his bosses at the used car lot?

Sheila is damaged goods, and I don't mean that in a dismissive or hurtful way. It's a simple fact, and nothing will change it. She's never told what she does know, and she's bizarrely aligned with many of the wrong people, the wrong side, of this murder case. Sheila's relationship with the Meeks is front-and-center, given her baby (and other things), which Sue had just forced her into putting up for adoption. At the time of the murders, that baby was still in The System in Oregon, where Sheila was 'hidden' during most of the pregnancy. Mama Meeks wanted that baby, badly. Sheila was underage, and the Meeks would have been up for an uphill, impossible, and very public fight for parental rights. Sue had final say, and it caused a hatred to build, one that is clearly visible in Mama's speech at Tina's memorial, 25 years after the murders.

I agree with IPO- as usual- and, speaking of the memorial: Josh had NOTHING to do with the headstones. He was against the idea of spending money on such a thing, but others made it happen. Then he filmed it and took credit for it. C'est la vie.

As for your questions, Breberry, ask away.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3210
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 709 times
Been thanked: 2666 times

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Breberry » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:46 am

Thank you so much for your responses, one of the questions I have is, do you think the Meeks played a part in this because of their anger towards Sue? Perhaps Sheila and Richard were also mad at Sue regarding the baby. I do think Marty and Bo did this but I also think there had to be more to the motive than Sue not wanting to go out with Bo. I don't think this has anything to do with drugs either, which is why I think maybe the anger over the baby had something to do with it. From what I've read people have credited Josh with shedding light on the case, so what went wrong? Do you think, Dmac, that Justin or Rick or Greg will ever tell what happened? Do you think if the baby was part of the motive maybe Sheila feels some guilt or regret? Also, what is up with that bartender/drink page? Whos is that? I was looking around on facebook for some of these people and I came across a Casey Meeks who is trying to kill himself with alcohol, it seems. I asked if he might know something but nobody seems to know who he is so he is probably a cousin or grandson or something.
Breberry
 

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby dmac » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:54 am

It's a long thread, based on years of spec and proof, but you will be astounded if you read it. It was started in 2009 by coopcooper, and I began a similar thread ('Mere Meeks Coincidences') years later. I've merged the two threads together, as Coop got there first and they are the same topic. This is the result:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=725#p233

'richardsmother' is Glenna 'Momma' Meeks, Richard Meeks' mom. The one who wanted the baby more than any other.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3210
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 709 times
Been thanked: 2666 times

Next

Return to keddie facts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Carriebritt41 and 0 guests