Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby dmac » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:40 pm

Here is a collection of crime scene photos showing the hole by Johnny's feet. I have cropped each photo to show only the hole, and an area ten times larger than the hole itself so viewers can better understand scale, angle, etc. At the very bottom of the image compilation, for comparison, is a clear shot of the similar hole in the wall by the front door floorboard. Note that it is an old hole with no dangling bits of drywall, wallpaper, or other residue. On the other hand, the hole by Johnny's feet shows chunks still hanging on, pushed in and perhaps hanging out.

While assembling this 'compilation', I've come to some conclusions, a few of which I need to impart:

    For instance, the photos do not show the detail necessary: you are seeing light and shade and flat colors instead of details. These are blowups of piss-poor photos, and it's all we have to work with right now, so give your best Charlie Brown *sigh*, and get on with it.

    There is a circular pattern where the wall fracture breaks the wallpaper and exposes the white drywall. The portion of the break in the wall, compressed into the wall space, shows an area of wallpaper with a huge green leaf on it, so that should help explain it's appearance (shading/coloring, etc) in the photos. The top of the same broken leaf pattern is on the wall, above the break, for clear reference.

    Likewise, there is a chunk at the bottom that shows up as bright or white, like it's hanging out (reflexed) or pushed in, or missing altogether, depending on the photo.

I'll add more in blue as I think of them or they come to light. I'm exhausted, as always, so forgive my writing and simply look at the hole in the wall gang of fourtos:

holes.jpg


If anyone wants to add info/details/questions, this is the place.

What is missing? If this were a recent break, during the crime, wouldn't there be powder debris on the floor just below the hole? Powder and chunks of white? Like the crap found all over the victims? NOTE TO SELF: HELL NO

Uh, please play that again. It's starting to make sense.

Aus, do you see what I see?

PS I do NOT mean the light-colored debris found on Johnny came from this hole in the wall. Think MUCH HARDER.
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby Magnum PI » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:45 pm

Who cleared the broken pieces in wall? In one shot the wall looks like it was kicked in the bottom photo it looks like someone broke the pieces out of the hole!
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby Magnum PI » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:48 pm

D are we looking at two separate holes or one?
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby Chichibcc » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:18 pm

So I guess it's safe to say that these particles on the floor under the curtain didn't come from that hole by the front door, then? Where could they have come from?

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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby Ausgirl » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:06 am

I'm with Mags -- somebody's poked the plaster out of that dint in the wall, so it becomes a hole proper - some time between the top set of pictures being taken and the ones below.
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby dmac » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:16 pm

From Aug, 2010 <link>:

[quote="jhancock"]Here is a picture taken from inside the cabin, facing the front door. You can see the outline of where Johnny's body was. The landlord confirmed that the hole in the bottom wall to the right of the door was already there before the murders.

http://keddie28.com/gal/Crime%20Scene/C ... afba3.html

It looks like the landlord was wrong.

I was able to find an image taken from xmas 80 and, although it's not an ideal image, I was able to superimpose them and line them up to show that the hole was not there. Look at the animated GIF on the right (it's a big file, open it in a new tab and let it load) and compare all the leaf patterns on the wall and how they line up, and how you can clearly see part of that hole should have been visible behind the bike tire in the xmas photo.

So, two unexplained holes in the wall? If the landlord says it was already there, it happened between Dec 25, 1980 and April 10, 1981. DOUBTFUL as HELL.

Image
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby ache » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:03 pm

I disagree - I think only the tiniest part of the hole would've shown, small enough that it would blend with the tyre tread in these photo's. Also, it looks like the light switch had been changed, so maybe the landlord knew about it because the hole was made to get at the wiring.
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby dmac » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:43 pm

Plenty of the hole shows already, and more would had I been able to match up the wallpaper pattern better. Look at the pattern at the bottom right. When the xmas photo shows, you can see the pattern is slightly up and to the left. If I'd been able to make that match better, the tire would show up slightly down to the right, making even more of the hole show. Move the tip of your mouse pointer to the upper-left hand part of the hole, then see how far away the edge of the tire is when the xmas photo is showing.

That hole is 100% clearly there.

As for the light switch, the sole difference between the photos is one shows a load of fingerprint powder.
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby LizzieB » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:06 am

To me, it looks like the holes could have been caused by the heal of a shoe. Like as if someone was using the wall for leverage and the weight caused the wall to break. I can't explain why there is no debris by the holes, though.
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby Magesta » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:29 am

Interesting, I was also looking to see in the Christmas photo if there was a pellet gun under the tree, but cannot make out exactly what is there, looks like there is a beebee gun, not sure about pellet gun.
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby Princess » Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:06 am

The picture is not a great pic. I know Dmac has done allot to the pic and he said that there is no pellet gun or beebee gun under the Christmas tree. I know that Sheila said at one time she thinks her Aunt gave Johnny a pellet gun but is not positive. In her interviews with the police she states NO Johnny did not own a pellet gun repeatedly.

However we do know that one was used. On Dana's Autopsy pic you definitely can tell he was shot with what I believe is a pellet gun on his left thigh. Dmac can help out more on that. They also found the site to a pellet gun at the scene of the crime.

Here are some links: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1147&hilit=tony+garedakis
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby Magesta » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:11 am

Thanks Princess, as I am new to this forum, I'm sure that dmac has scrutinized every photo he has for something that may connect the dots in this horrible crime. Seeing the photo for the first time, it crossed my mind, I wonder if the kids got a pellet gun for Christmas the year before. You and others have done a phenomenal job with your research. I also hope you get some answers to the DNA testing, although I really doubt there will be anything forthcoming but you never know. You certainly are trying and hopefully all your hard work will pay off some day soon.
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby dmac » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:22 pm

No bb gun or rifle found under the tree. Johnny's fave gift that year seems to be the electronic football game he's seen playing in another photo. I was able to ID a bunch of stuff after some scrutiny- Sheila actually asked me to go thru the xmas photos to ID all the gifts. There's the bikes, the hair curler (not knives), the Disney Dumbo record, some Sesame Street stuff, jewelry, the electronic ball game, RC race car, toy Ferrari, cologne, clothing, a board game or puzzle, toy garage, more toy cars, etc. There's the two dark jars and large box with a toy inside near the front of the tree, which I can't ID. The font used on the side of the box tells me of a knock-off Star Wars type toy may be inside.

80xmasSheilaCouch.jpg


What nobody seems to have considered is the gun used in the attack may also be a ruse. You know how proudly MMB and Dee admitted there was a rifle in Dee's car, and Dee showed the cops it was intact? Well, there's the ruse: What if there was ALSO a BB gun, which they didn't mention because it was used and damaged and then destroyed/hidden?

As for the 'wound' on Dana's thigh, it's consistent with a pellet wound, but the photo simply is not good enough. When cleaning up the photo, it appears the wound is reddish-blue. However, it could be a mole or something else, and the ME makes no mention of it in the autopsy report.

On revisiting the photo of the wound, I'm suitably convinced it's not a mole but a pellet wound.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=599&p=15133#p15133
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby Magesta » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:21 pm

A rifle and pellet gun were brought by the murderers, she certainly wouldn't have let in anyone carrying a rifle and pellet gun. They would have had to walk in without her letting them in, because the back door was always unlocked for Johnny to come in and use the bathroom from what I understand. Unless they left during the attack and came back with the guns, which I can't see happening, since they had plenty of weapons on hand other than the guns to use. Possible pellet mark on Dana would indicate he was alive when they hit him with the pellet, it wouldn't bruise after death. If it is a bruise,why hit him with a pellet gun before you take him out ? Unless he was hit as he tried to make a run for it. One may have ran after him and hit him with the hammer as the other hit him with the pellet gun. Why bring a pellet gun to the scene at all ? I know you can kill someone with one if held close enough to someones head but then why didn't they use it to kill anyone? Some how a hit man with a pellet gun in toe just doesn't add up, seems more like something a teenager would use to defend themselves, as that was the closest thing to a weapon they would have. Then that mark on Dana could also be the post mortem marks we also see on Sues ankles in the binding photo.
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby Chichibcc » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:41 pm

If there was a pellet gun, perhaps it was used to as an intimidation tactic to try keeping everyone under control prior to restraining them, without necessarily having to fire it.
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby dmac » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:03 pm

Nobody locked doors back then, including Sue. My family never did, and we lived in a much more densely populated town. The killers were familiar with 28 and Keddie, and would have entered the quietest and quickest path to the target. Not the rickety, groaning back stairs, but the front door. Sue was asleep in bed, glasses on the nightstand and her robe hanging on the closet door. She was woken and dragged out of bed, never even having the chance to put her glasses on so she could see- which is one small thing to be thankful for.

Bruising does occur postmortem, which is yet another thing the US medical community seems to still be in denial about. If your familiar with Cumberbatch as "Sherlock", you may recall that one of the storylines had Holmes beating a cadaver to determine how quickly postmortem bruises form.

The real rifle may never have been in the car, but it''s so loud in the Loonibi one has to consider it what it is: manipulation, smoke and mirrors. Marty says he woulda used a hatchet were he the killer, but he intentionally wonders aloud why his hammer is suddenly missing, and wants to see the hammer used in the murders to rule out it was his. In fact, the ME indicates two hammers were used in the murders, not just the one found at the scene. Marty says he woulda taken Tina over the bridge, but it's locked. No, it's not locked... In fact, witnesses from the bar used that swinging bridge multiple times that evening and Sunday morning. Do the same with the gun: MMB said Dee called looking for 'his' gun, but couldn't find it under the seat of the car because, unbeknownst to all, Bo had found it and stuck it under the couch he slept on. Then Dee came over and retrieved the rifle prior to the murders. Absolute bullshit.

How did that topic even come up? 1> the rifle can't fit under the bench seat of Dee's cae, as explained. 2> according to the rules of the Loonibi, when they offer info, turn it on it's head. If they say there was a .22 rifle, it means there probably wasn't. But they brought up the rifle and explained it away in a story that makes absolutely no sense. Hell, the entire story about borrowing Dee's car is complete bullshit. So is the rifle. Translation: They had to talk about the gun because they realized they'd left evidence behind. They got rid of what was left of the Daisy, and decided to throw in a red herring by impossibly putting Dee's 22 rifle into the picture.
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby Magesta » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:44 am

I was wondering why they even brought up that there was a rifle, that clears that up. Geesh this thing is so convoluted, these guys were protected like they were some high profile politicians.
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby wonderer » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:42 pm

Really off topic but how did a single mother of 5 afford all those toys?
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby Princess » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:01 am

Layaway....
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Re: Hole in the Wall Gang of Fotos

Postby dmac » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:55 pm

I remember Sheila telling me about getting all the gifts together for xmas, either on the board, in chat, or privately. It didn't make sense to me then, nor now. She said she helped Sue with running around and getting gifts together. The bikes were used, she said. What struck me as nonsensical was the idea Sheila could be two places at once: My understanding is she had a brief holiday visit over Christmas, so how can she be two places at once? Either she was up in Oregon waiting for the baby to come in Feb, or she was in Keddie, helping Sue get gifts squared away in the days leading up to xmas.

My guess is Sue got stuff on layaway, used (like the bikes), bought discount brands, and inexpensive stocking-stuffers. Also, don't forget some of the gifts probably came from relatives.
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