Number of Stab Marks On the Wall

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Number of Stab Marks On the Wall

Postby dmac » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:55 pm

Months ago, Josh uploaded a field evidence report that was too small and blurry to read:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=354

So, here's the long-awaited, cleaned up and decrypted version of this very crucial report. It's a field copy of an evidence list, dated 4-17-81. Lines 101-109 are collected from Cabin 28, and 110-112 are collected from Tina's school (marked in the margin as "Different Class" or something similar= maybe meant to mean the items were recovered from different classrooms). A few things are illegible, and the dimensions of the wall boards removed from the cabin are guesstimates.

What is very clear is the number of knife marks listed. The first panel is right next to the front door, where the light switch is between door and window. It had four knife marks. The other three panels, taken from the wall between the living room and boys' bedroom, had three knife marks in total. So, seven knife marks in the wall in total? Why all these years of repeated melodramatic bullshit about dozens of knife marks in the wall?

Keep in mind, the section of wood paneling from the wall next to the TV was also taken into evidence(Justin: "The boys touched the wall by the TV"), but it is not on this list. Does that panel have dozens of stab marks on it?

Here's the list, as best as I can decrypt it:

101 door knob from outside rear door (kitchen)
102 1973 Chrysler Newport Grn 4-Door [VIN] CL41M3C245737 Cal Lic SAWW309 R/O James & Glenna Sharp, parked at rear of #28 Keddie
103 dress found under cabin #28 by DOJ Bradley 4-18-81
104 Telephone book seized by Sheriff Thomas from cabin #28 4-18-81
105 Two strands fiber found on fence (south) cabin #28 by Sheriff Thomas
106 9" x 15 1/2" x 1/2" wall board taken from north wall near front door (4) knife marks (a,b,c,d)
107 1 1/2' x 1' x 1/2"' wall board taken from north wall near door with one knife mark (e)
108 2 1/2' x 4' x 1/2"' " " " " " " " " " " " " (f)
109 2 1/2' x 3' x 1/2"' " " " " " " " " " " " " (g)
110 medical alert bracelet from school (penicillin allergy) (Tina)
111 misc. papers from school (Tina) desk
112 " books " " " "


Image
Now, note the concentration of knife marks on item 106- four stab wounds on what appears to be the smallest section taken from the cabin. While the huge sections taken from the wall adjoining the boys' room netted three known knife marks, the small section had four. And look at Thomas and another studying that very section:

Image Image
- - - panel by front door - - - - - - - - - - wall adjoining boys' room

Here's a couple mockups of the section taken from the wall by the door (the transparent yellow square). There is a dark smudge on the wall above where DT was ogling, and I don't know if it's relevant to the crime (perhaps leftover from fingerprint dusting) or was included in the chunk of wall taken. I would think, were it included, the chunk taken would be larger than what's been detailed in the report.

Image. Image

I've long held the belief that the stab marks on the wall were primarily to threaten those in the cabin- victims, likely aready taped and helpless, held against the wall by the throat and stabbed at with a knife. I never had any details on the height of the marks, nor the stab count. Still, since noticing remarkably similar wounds on the bodies, I've never been able to shake my belief that the knife marks represented a real threat or attack, not some pointless, over-the-top exercise in knife-throwing marksmanship. The following hopefully doesn't sound like it's put together solely to support my longstanding theory, although it certainly is worded in a way that explains the theory in practice.

As for why only three marks on the wall adjacent to the boys' room? The killers knew the boys were in there, they even interacted with them. If a victim wasn't held against the wall there, it was still a threat- to the three youngest boys. These killers had ego, not shame. Killing women and children was a real feeling of power to these cowardly twats, and they exploited the situation for every cheap sick thrill they could squeeze out of it.


To put it bluntly, and not intentionally morbidly, this crime was all about overkill. But these assholes didn't waste their rage on inanimate objects. It was pointed, all of it, at innocent, defenseless people.

So let's orient ourselves a bit. Standard front door, 80" high with the doorknob at 3 feet from bottom. The light switch checks out as typical, which puts the top of the switch plate at around 49" from the floor. Compare that to where DT is ogling: He's pointing out an area near the green leaf pattern which, using Photoshop tools, measures at about 56" from the floor. At 5' 2" tall, 56" would hit Sue right at the level of her earlobe. Note that the autopsy report on Sue indicates:

The left ear shows, just above the ear lobe laterally, a deep laceration through the posterior pinna. It is 5/8 x l/4 inch in greatest dimension, and is oblique. The ear itself is markedly bruised, and varies from bluish-red to purplish in color. A laceration involves the anterior upper portion of the ear. It extends from the adjacent skin of the scalp over the anterior ear in an overall area of 3/4 x l/8 inch in greatest dimension. A skip zone is present between the ear and the scalp portion of the wound


Image
- - - wounds to Sue's ear

Likewise, Johnny had similar stab patterns. However, the autopsy report for Johnny does not specify his height or weight, and my understanding is he was one or two inches taller than Sue, but that is unconfirmed. There is a remarkably similar wound to Johnny's right ear, and two wounds to the left side of his scalp that should be considered (although one should consider any slicing knife wound that cuts the scalp should also result in strands, if not chunks, of hair also being cut from the scalp. Several chunks of hair were found at the crime scene, I believe mostly over near where Sue's corpse was placed):

A cut mark is present in the mid portion of the external aspect of the right pinna [outer ear]. It is 3/4 inch in greatest dimension.


Image Image
- - - - Johnny's right ear - - - - - - - - - - - Johnny's left side

Dana, at 5'10", was a full eight inches taller than Sue, so whatever DT is pointing at would hit Dana near the level of his clavicle (collar bone). There was a massive wound to his left ear, including a laceration that nearly severed the ear in half, and another parallel wound at the rear of the head, above and behind the ear by about 3". The cut on Dana's ear doesn't strike me as similar to Sue's and Johnny's- it's on the edge of the massive bruising wound to his ear, possibly even from another blow by Weapon 4.

Image

Again, LE does not list the portion of wall taken from the cabin near the television, and I have a feeling that's where Dana and Johnny would have been forced against the wall. I've long thought that, due to the apparent struggle, what appears to be blood drops on the card table, and the table leg being used as weapon 4. It also helps that so much more of Justin's statements are panning out to match the facts than I'd previously believed.

Image Image
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Re: Number of Stab Marks On the Wall

Postby Ausgirl » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:36 am

103 dress found under cabin #28 by DOJ Bradley 4-18-81

Huh? Dress - whose dress? Why is that in evidence? Was there blood on it? Knife marks? Under.. where? In John's room? Under the stairs?

I hate not knowing things. :|
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Re: Number of Stab Marks On the Wall

Postby Magesta » Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:21 pm

It was mentioned that Mardy liked to throw his axe and since he didn't have his axe maybe he had Johnny stand by the front door, {someone could ave had the rifle on him to make him stay there} while he threw the knife at him and had Dana sit in the white phone chair with the cushion on it by the boys bedroom wall and threw the knife at him.
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Re: Number of Stab Marks On the Wall

Postby dmac » Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:55 pm

more details about stab marks here. The fact the knife marks on the wall above the front door light switch lines up with knife wounds to Sue's ear, my guess is Marty wasn't a marksman with a knife but victims were held against the wall and stabbed at, cutting the ear, scalp, etc.

Many of the scalp lacerations must have resulted in locks of hair being cut. All four victims had long hair, so where are the chunks of hair? I only recall locks being found near Sue's body- if anyone stumbles across more info re: where hair was found (other than in tape, on hands, or dried into blood) please post here.
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Re: Number of Stab Marks On the Wall

Postby Magesta » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:07 pm

Makes sense. I do only recall the cut hair found by Sue and the blonde or tan hair in Johnny's hand. There was a white fiber in Dana's hand as I recall, but no hair.
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Re: Number of Stab Marks On the Wall

Postby dmac » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:51 pm

Here's another thing that's been niggling at me for years, but I repeatedly forgot to post my deduction:

Look at the results of the 3D pano reconstruction of the crime scene, and notice how tiny and claustrophobic the living room / killing field was, how close together the walls were.

Remember the knife marks in the wall, and which walls they were in? That's why I'm posting on this thread...

Q: WHICH KNIFE LEFT AT THE SCENE COULD POSSIBLY BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE KNIFE MARKS IN THE WALLS?
A: NONE OF THEM!

The killer was THROWING the knife (as was Marty's well-known hobby), or STABBING the wall with knife in hand. Look closely at the knife marks shown in photos- the best shots are from the wall over the phone / chair. The knife holes are all pretty uniform, the same dimensions. The flimsy knife found next to Johnny couldn't be responsible- it was too weak, and bent during the postmortem stabbing of his chest. The HUGE butcher knife is the wrong size for throwing, and if someone was stabbing the wall with it, the sizes of holes would vary wildly, and probably never match those found in the wall. Look at the tip of that Old Hickory blade- NO WAY it made a hole in those walls.

Deduction:
Neither knife found at the scene was responsible for the holes in the wall.

It's already a known fact the killers brought a folding, multi-purpose (Swiss army) knife to the murders and abandoned it, bloody, in the trash by the dorm. You can't very well stab with a folding knife- You can slice or slit, but you can't stab a human, you can't stab a wall, with that knife- the risk of it folding and cutting the aggressor is huge. You certainly can't throw a Swiss army knife and make it stick.

Deduction:
THE KILLERS BROUGHT MORE THAN ONE KNIFE TO THE MURDERS.

Also, for the killer to make those holes from THROWING the knife/knives, it was before bodies were staged, and probably before the bleed-out spots soaked the carpeting.
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Re: Number of Stab Marks On the Wall

Postby miniondi » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:30 pm

wouldn't the depth of the marks in the wall possibly indicate whether or not the knife was thrown (more shallow) or stabbed (deeper?)
(tbf, I have no clue)
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