ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby IPO » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:12 pm

While we can all be pretty certain all the boys were awake and knew what happened that night ("knew" depending on their ages). What is really a shame is that Tina hadn't spent that night next door with her sister as per her usual Saturday night routine. I believe that Tina, unlike the others, knew far more about what was going on in her family, and particularly her mother's life. I also believe that in her innocent naivety she would have been much more difficult to keep silent.

After all these years it is disturbing that Sue's children haven't spoken up about what they knew. Did they even grieve the death of their mother and the end of that chapter of their family's dysfunctional life? I've mentioned before that it wasn't until Josh started making his films that anyone even bothered to place a headstone on poor Tina's grave. While I realize that when her remains were found the 3 remaining Sharps were still young, surely after they had began to work they would have made putting a headstone on their murdered sister's grave somewhat of a priority. Their apparent disinterest in Tina's death mystifies me. Who is it that has such a strong hold on their silence, or is it that the family (meaning family unit) that died was not important to them. Their memories of that chapter living with a single mother perhaps were not happy memories. Maybe life after Sue's death was an improvement. Just saying I believe there was some strange stuff going on in Cabin 28 before the murders.
IPO
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:48 pm
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby Chichibcc » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:46 am

Sheila has mentioned herself that as they all got older, they rarely discussed what happened, primarily out of her desire to "protect" her brothers, so I'm sure that at least part of the reason more information has not been divulged.

Undoubtedly, there are others involved in this crime who are still alive, which is further preventing Rick and Greg from talking further, which I can understand, considering that they now have families of their own.
User avatar
Chichibcc
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:08 am
Has thanked: 656 times
Been thanked: 239 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby Izzy » Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:41 pm

D, what is your opinion regarding how Justin, Ricky and Greg were controlled during the crime? Even if the victims were subdued quickly and no screams were heard, there must have been quite a ruckus in the living room that alerted the boys that something was terribly wrong. I can imagine they were terrified and wanted to know that their mother was ok. I find it difficult to believe that they didn't at least want to check on her. Did Loon come into the bedroom and tell them that their mom was ill and they were going to get her to the hospital and not to leave the bedroom? How did they keep Ricky and Greg from coming out and panicking? When was Justin able to come out of the bedroom and try to render aid to Sue? Was this after M, B & L (and Tony, Dee and whoever else was there) left the first time only to come back later to begin their staging? I have two young children and I can only imagine how panicked they would be if they were shut in a bedroom fully knowing something was wrong. Justin obviously saw the carnage which is horrifying. How in the heck was he able to contain Rick and Greg from seeing the same thing? I'm sure he was threatened, but still, that was a very difficult task he was forced to manage. Are we to believe that after the staging was complete (I believe in another post I read you estimated that murderers finished up around 5:30 a.m.) and before Sheila got them out through their bedroom window a couple of hours later that they just fell fast asleep?

The other thing is, that if Loon came into the bedroom and spoke to the boys about staying put, Rick would be able to put her at the house at the time of the murders and could testify to that fact. My point is just that if he didn't actually witness the murders being committed, he could put Loon at the scene.

Sorry in advance if you have covered this info in other posts. I was unable to find anything specifically about how the surviving children were likely handled during the crime.
Izzy
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:16 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby dmac » Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:24 pm

I don't have much of an opinion on how they were controlled, other than by extreme coercion. Since I 100% believe Marilyn, Marty and Bo were the primary killers, and it was impossible for the kids to sleep through the storming of their home and subsequent assaults and murders, logic dictates they were probably awakened right off the bat. When the home invasion and struggle began in the girls' room, that alone should have been loud enough to wake anyone, and could also be the time of the sole scream heard by any neighbors. The fact at least one of the younger boys was interacting with the killers, and that Greg admitted he was awakened during the murders, tells me they all at least knew what was going on to a large extent (if not seeing it firsthand), that people were being brutalized and murdered, and the boys recognized the killers. The fear of knowing what was happening and knowing who did it, coupled with being physically and/or verbally threatened, did the trick.

>>>Sharp, Greg--- Sue's son, talked @ events on 4/11/81 evening, said he woke up during the evening

The amount of interaction between the boys and the killers is unknown. Marty flat out told corrupt DOJ Crimley that Justin was awake and saw what happened, but did Justin really try to staunch blood flow on Sue with a rag, or do any of the other things he said under coercion and duress by and to a corrupt LE, including his coward stepdaddy's BFF, Sheriff Thomas? Was he really wearing shoes that Thomas later confiscated and 'disappeared', or is that just another lie from Loon that seems to have been programmed into Justin's head? Recall in the film, he actually said "according to what my mom tells me".

I do find it beyond plausible that, while the men were off hiding Tina's body, Loon stayed behind to quietly observe what the young boys would do once they thought the killers had gone. I believe she is 100% involved, as her co-authorship and continued support of the majority of joint-concocted lies, which are the faulty foundation and pillars supporting the crap-fest known as the Loonibi, indicates.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3209
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 709 times
Been thanked: 2665 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby dmac » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:51 pm

Josh wrote:1. Though details of Justin's polygraph exam were left off of the timeline, the timeline clearly states that he told the examiner he witnessed everything. We have confirmed this to be true with the examiner himself, now an elderly man but one who remembered the examination vividly. Were Justin's admissions not taken seriously? Was it intentional that the key suspects dropped off the radar of some of the investigating officers?

2. Justin repeatedly says, "Tina is down by the river." Could he have been looking out the bedroom window, watching the abductors take her away?


When Sheila and Jamie Seabolt went to get the boys via the bedroom window, it was unlocked, possibly even ajar, according to interviews with Sheila and Jamie. It would be possible to poke your head out the window and look back behind the cabin and see people behind there to some distance since the yellow light hanging from the porch was found on Sunday morning. Also note that, if Justin did say this, he must be indicating a corpse, for why would she be found just hangin' out down by the river?
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3209
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 709 times
Been thanked: 2665 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby Magesta » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:16 pm

I always wondered why the boys didn't try to leave the bedroom by the window, it wasn't that high off the ground to have one of them jump and run and get help.
Magesta
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:44 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby dmac » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:32 pm

Years ago, one of Justin's stories was he jumped out the window, hid for some time, then went back in time to be 'rescued' by Sheila and Jamie. I find it highly implausible on so many levels, particularly considering he was interacting with the killers during the hours the crimes hppened. I think it was a blanket story used on friends and acquaintances to placate them without having to discuss it, which is totally plausible- and understandable.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3209
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 709 times
Been thanked: 2665 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby Magesta » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:26 pm

Yeah, sounds like it, so as not to have to explain any further why he didn't leave the cabin.
Magesta
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:44 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby wonderer » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:44 pm

I'm curious if in fact Justin was awake and he did apply a cloth to sues chest... He would of had blood on him. So either that was made up or someone cleaned him up.
wonderer
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:53 am
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby snide94 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:39 pm

I just can't imagine anyone hurting my mom and not try something. I have know doubt's that the kids where awake and the only reason they were not murdered is because marylyn had to be there.
snide94
 

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby honda300 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:55 pm

In a way that is what amazes me most about this case.but if they were awake or not, how or why were they left alive.they were extremely lucky to be left alive.
honda300
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:13 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby dmac » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:36 pm

Nope, not lucky. It was completely calculated by the killers. Justin's sleepover with Sue's kids ensured Justin's mom, step-dad, Bo, etc., had control over all the boys in that bedroom. They chose to leave Justin alive and, in doing so, it (accidental;ly) ensured the Sharp boys' survival.

Anyone claiming the boys were asleep, or the killers were unaware the boys were in the house, are not familiar with the facts. The survivors are alive because it was calculated. This further points to Marty, Loon, Bo, etc., as the killers, and LE for covering it up.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3209
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 709 times
Been thanked: 2665 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby IPO » Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:05 pm

Snide94, You said you couldn't imagine the boys staying in their room while someone was hurting their mum. I believe Sue was gagged pretty quickly so they probably didn't know exactly what was happening. While I am horrified at what happened to Sue, And don't believe she deserved what happened to her by any means, I don't believe she was a very attentive nurturing kind of mother. I think the kids were pretty well left to their own devices most of the time. Another possible misconception that we may all have is that evenings/nights in the Sharp home were quiet mother and children times. nobody seems to know (or want to share) very much about Sue's life. She could very well have had company many evenings/nights whether family or friends. It also could have been normal for Greg and Rick to have fallen asleep or woken up by yelling between Due and her older children, brother or friends/boyfriends. For the boys the sounds might just have been those of a normal night at home. She could also have had visitors from loan sharks. We know so little about this family.
IPO
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:48 pm
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby kmik » Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:53 pm

If only we all could go back a few years we'd all be the perfect parent, or at least do somethings differently. I feel like Sue was raising 5 kids, by the same father, by herself. She was worried about Johnny, she had talked about this with her sister in law. She must have been worried about Sheila getting pregnant because she was smart enough to know that even though she was friends with the Meeks she didn't want her daughter and grandchild being controlled by them for the rest of their lives. On top of all of this she had Tina (who had possibly been molested months before) and 2 more boys to worry about. I believe she was worried about her children and that is possibly why these murders even happened. I don't want to sound rude, but what more do we need to know about Sue? Sure it would be nice to know everything going on in her life at that time, but we don't . If we need to know about anything else it should be : is anyone ever goin to question Dee Lake or Wade Meeks about what they know? It is obvious that the boys did wake up and knew something was going on. I am pretty sure they were terrifed as anybody would have been. I don't feel like there were any loan sharks stopping by that night, just the friendly neigbors from down the street.
kmik
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:32 am
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby snide94 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:07 pm

How do Rick and Justin keep that night out of there head. Justin's has given multiple versions of that night. What keeps Rick from speaking out cause I have know doubt's he knows who was there that night. So many things in this case just don't make any sense.
snide94
 

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby honda300 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:04 pm

why take a chance and leave witnesses behind.dont misunderstand me i am of course glad they were not killed i was just thinking if i were the killer or killers i would probably be paranoid about the fact that i left possible witnesses behind to tie me to the murders.but maybe thats just me.
honda300
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:13 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby dmac » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:17 pm

not when one of the survivors, Justin, is the son of the killers: Marilyn and Marty Smartt. If you were going to kill the boys, you have to kill Justin, too. Otherwise, all three boys had to be left alive. So, they threatened the boys, cut the wires, went back to check on them, etc., hence Marty saying "Justin is quiet enough where he could have gotten up that night and seen me".

It was a gamble the killers took, and LE ran with it, because LE damned sure knew in April 1981 what we do now: Marty and Loon and Bo (and others) are the killers.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3209
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 709 times
Been thanked: 2665 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby honda300 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:37 am

How did the killer or killers keep everybody quiet in the process of such brutal crimes.to be in that cabin even with the victims gagged and witness others being killed in that manner without anybody hearing anything is amazing to me.
honda300
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:13 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby Chichibcc » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:45 pm

The thickness of the cabin walls may have contributed to muffling any noise, in addition to all the numerous trees in the area, which may have also helped to buff sound as well.
User avatar
Chichibcc
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:08 am
Has thanked: 656 times
Been thanked: 239 times

Re: ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE DURING THE MURDERS

Postby billbird2111 » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:27 pm

My first post: Rule 1: Do not start an argument with dmac.

I know absolutely NOTHING about this case other than when I first discovered it three days ago. That said -- having watched at least one of the videos and read several different articles -- I must agree that all of the boys had to have been awake and may have witnessed everything.

Why not say anything? I believe the boys were threatened and were scared to death. That fear may still be with them. Although one of the boys implicated the primary suspects, his story also changed. It changed so many times that he would not have been a reliable witness in court. A defense attorney would have torn him apart. This may be one reason why nobody was brought to justice.
billbird2111
 

PreviousNext

Return to keddie facts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 0 guests

cron