810415 810416 930127 Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

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810415 810416 930127 Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby dmac » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:58 pm

Three different floorplans drawn by PCSO. The first and third are new to the board. This first one, the most detailed and accurate by far, was done by Dep. Wright to clearly detail the sections of wall removed from the living room. This ranks as some of the best work I've seen in the history of that troubled sheriff's department, ... no disrespect to Wright, but it's only fitting that crayons were used. I actually commend Wright for his apparent ability, and it draws into question other beliefs I've held about his next drawing (see below). This guy clearly knew how to do things those in charge had no clue about. No wonder he has nothing to do with the investigation: this drawing shows he's talented and intelligent.

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Next up is the crude version by Wright which we are all familiar with, dated the following day. I wish like hell he'd done a floorplan of the ENTIRE cabin (both floors) as accurate as the one above. Note that he did get everything to relative scale within each room: The couch was biggest, and the table sizes were each smaller the closer to the front door. Big table by the couch, then the footlocker with the seat/table/phone on top, then the TV tray with the rats inside. The bunk beds in the boys room were much bigger than the cot. The shower and closet in the bathroom were larger than the sink and counter, etc. Did Wright really make a mistake when drawing the size of the girls' beds?

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Last in line is one made by Stoy in 93. I have no idea what the circumstances were that made this drawing necessary ten years after the fact, or why he didn't utilize a better, more accurate floorplan (one MUST exist somewhere!), but is has a couple things of interest in it. He points out an (open?) kitchen drawer... does it have any significance beyond it being where the recovered knives came from? Why has he moved the tool box to the back porch? He puts Sue and Tina in the correct beds, but why are the bed sizes confused? The cardboard box used as a nightstand was by Tina's bed, with Tina's wallet found on it, and the other bed had a metal TV tray used as a nightstand, with Sue's glasses, an obligatory ashtray, and a lamp on it. So it's not too feasible that Sue decided to take the big bed that night just because Sheila was next door... but I can't imagine making my two kids take the smaller bed when there were only two available. It's a no-brainer to me that the bigger bed would have been shared by the young girls... but I digress. Or do I?

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Re: Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby Chichibcc » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:03 am

I agree, the first floorplan is superior by far.

The date on the third one reads January 27, 1993, though...I wonder who Laura Bailey is, and why Stoy drew this specifically for her?

I'm thinking that Tina/Sheila's bed was probably smaller. That's a pretty consistent feature in both of the last two floorplans, especially considering that two different people drew them.
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Re: Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby RogerV » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:19 pm

So there were TWO TV stands?
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Re: Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby RogerV » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:32 am

Actually, the telephone was on a special "telephone bench." It had a raised surface for the telephone with a seat beside it. They must have picked it up from someone who was discarding it, and telephone benches were out of style by 1980.
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Re: Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby dmac » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:16 am

Take a close look at the Stoy scrawl from 1993, and note his wording and his emphasis:

    >he has the tool box on the rear porch, when other files say it was in the kitchen, next to the fridge.

    >he notes a drawer open in the kitchen. why?

    >he notes the large and small beds in the girls' room. Sue slept on the larger bed that night, as he notes, and Tina on the smaller. He also notes the bedding... a nod to the top sheet and blanket used to cover Sue's body.

    >in the boys' room, he calls the survivors "other children"- a strange choice of words. If they were the "other" children, who did he consider the 'main' children? And he notes the window as the "escape window"

No mention of Laura Bailey from any known sources- anyone know the name?
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Re: New Image Question

Postby dmac » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:11 pm

moved from a closed thread:
somanyquestions wrote:One of the new images here is of a floor plan. I notice there are beds marked "Tina's bed" and "Sue's bed" (obviously in the bedroom those two individuals shared), but where was Sheila's bed located in the cabin?
Thanks


Do you mean this link?
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Re: Brand New Photo Gallery

Postby somanyquestions » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:18 pm

Yes, I apologize...I should have clarified when asking my original question.
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Re: Brand New Photo Gallery

Postby dmac » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:45 pm

The image in question is a floorplan I designed based on many things, including Sheila's direct input, the poorly-drawn PCSO sketches (which are remarkably accurate for basic placement), and historical photos of the cabin.

It turns out my design is very close, but the beds are switched around. The bigger bed where Sue slept was by the back wall, the smaller by the bedroom door. When I and LE usually refer to 'so-and-so's bed', it refers to the beds Tina and Sue used that night, so Sheila's not mentioned because she was sleeping next door and was not a victim.

But it does beg Qs like: PCSO mention they know who slept where, but how CAN they know- much less be accurate- based on their supposed 1981 witnesses and 1981 non-existent DNA technology? And there's a few things that split from here, based on the whole Big Q about who slept in which bed normally. Even asking such a simple Q from certain folks who knew, who said they wanted help, resulted in BS.
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Re: Brand New Photo Gallery

Postby somanyquestions » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:34 am

Thank you. Perhaps daughters simply shared a bed, but I find this unlikely. I'd naturally presume each child in the cabin had their own designated bed.
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Re: Brand New Photo Gallery

Postby dmac » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:13 am

Finding it unlikely would prove wrong. Keddie was a small, impoverished 'community'. The Mollaths owned Keddie and ran it into the ground. Absolute multimillionaire slumlord scum. The Albins and Hogaboams sublet the Keddie area and tried to turn it around, cleaning it up and repairing the dorm and lodge to reopen both. But the cabins were in disrepair (the main weight of the back stairs on 28, for instance, was held up by chunks of 2x4!).

http://keddie28.com/gal/Crime%20Scene/2 ... house.html

Rent in Keddie was low. 28 was $250 a month. And look at 28 a bit closer: Two bedrooms, and Johnny lived in an unfinished spare room in the basement. 5 kids and a mother in 2 bedrooms, and no bed for Sue- unless the girls shared a bed. Which they did. Which Sheila does not like to admit.

Sheila says Sue often slept on the couch, but she certainly can't be trusted on many things she's said. A poorly-held family skeleton is the amount of animosity Sheila had towards the victims, and one thing she hated was sharing a bed with her sister. That could be why she insists Sue often slept on the couch. Also, basic case facts were sullied by both Sheriff Thomas and Josh Hancock in regards to where Sue slept and, thus, how and where the attacks began. This was, by a wide mile, the biggest case Thomas ever (mis)handled in law enforcement. But, seeing as he's a sack of shit and corrupt, it's no surprise he 'misremembered' Sue as being found on the couch, not on the floor.

Josh, in his quest for filthy lucre, held on to stolen case files. Among many things, his lies led to many believing for years the assaults/murders began in the front room, with Sue asleep on the couch. He insisted for years he had no photos from Sue's bedroom, then casually put this photo up on his FB sales page, which was the final straw. It directly led to his long-overdue downfall.

How do we know where the victims were when the attacks began? Sue's glasses were on the nightstand next to the big bed. She was myopic and wore her glasses constantly when awake. Sue's ashtray and cigarette pack were on the same nightstand. Her robe, which she'd been seen wearing all night, including when the boys went to bed, was hanging from the door of the closet, at the foot of the big bed. Tina's wallet was on the cardboard box which served as the nightstand for the small bed. The girls normally shared the big bed and Sue took the small but, as Sheila was next door, Sue decided to sprawl out in the big bed that night. The white/gray-striped shirt was found on the small bed. IT was Chatterbox, a kids' line, size 12, which fits a 10 year old. Tina was small for her age of 12.

That and other evidence indicate not only who slept where that night, but where and how the murders began.
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Re: Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby kmik » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:26 pm

Dmac, in your original post from March 10 (Just a Theory) you made reference to the fact that Sheila had the same feelings toward Johnny that she did her father. Now today you have posted about the animosity that she had towards the victims. The only thing I have read was what Trisha Petitus said about Tina hating her mother (which was when Trisha was denying that she had said Tina was pregnant by Marty) so I guess neither was true? Also from a comment "insinuating" competition between Sheila and Tina. Other that that I've not read about any real animosity.
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Re: Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby Chichibcc » Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:04 pm

kmik wrote:in your original post from March 10 (Just a Theory) you made reference to the fact that Sheila had the same feelings toward Johnny that she did her father.


I'm thinking that may be because Johnny reminded her of their father at times (in regards to his bad temper).

As far as Tina is concerned, I remember Dmac mentioning how they weren't as close as Sheila tried making it out to be in the documentaries-kinda like a sibling-rivalry sort of deal, a "competition" thing.
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Re: 810415 810416 930127 Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby dmac » Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:00 pm

Sheila has been deceptive with regards to many aspects of the case. We all understand 'skeletons in the closet' but, as it's been said dozens of times on this forum alone, this isn't about degrading the memories of the victims. Understanding interpersonal aspects of victims, friends,killers, remaining suspects, etc., goes a long way to understanding the dynamics of the case, and why a few very close to Sue hated her with such passion.

Sheila has described Sue as a great mom, 'the neighborhood mom', which she clearly was not. She didn't pay enough attention to her own kids, much less the neighbors'. She was, for the most part, introverted and overwhelmed, so quiet and reserved that much, if not most, of Keddie didn't know her. From LE reports, many neighbors who did know her didn't want her in a supervisory capacity over their own kids. You also must factor in whatever level of anger there was over Sheila's baby being put up for adoption. Sue's sole choice.

Sheila has called Tina her "little angel", but there is more than mere suggestions of division beyond typical sibling rivalry, jealousies, etc. Imagine how having to share a bed would amplify anything like that.

To us, Sheila described Johnny as her Great Defender, one that would back her up at school or anywhere else. Yet, in her class project/diary she described her biggest fears (prior to the murders) as her father, Johnny, and lightning. We know Johnny was an angry kid, and who could blame him? All the Sharp kids were given a shit deal prior to the murders, then all hell breaks loose and the cops decide to screw them, too? Great start to life. I'm certain Johnny had huge issues with Sue and anyone else over parenting, dominance, typical adolescent rebellion (exacerbated by the family history and disintegration), etc. But would Johnny run to their rescue? Damned straight, he would and he did. He and Dana died defending those in Cabin 28.

I can't hold the "Tina Is Pregnant" reports to any level of scrutiny- there's no real reports, just a couple snippets of reports Josh stole. I lot of the reports seem to be backstabbing and backpedaling, 'he said/she said' followed quickly by a spate of "I never said that!". Consider also the reports seem to come from neighbors in the same trailer park the Sharps lived in prior to moving to Keddie, and that a person mentioned seems to be one of the "older woman" Dana was 'dating', and what I'm left with is a circle-jerk of nattering neighbors, ugly gossip, perhaps jealousies and spite, and little else.

One thing that stands out is future-sheriff Shanks is also listed as a source of the pregnancy rumors. Shanks is another pal of Marty's (being on 'rides' with Sheriff Thomas and Marty, as 'The Good Sheriff' admitted), and is a sick bastard/child molester. He'd probably still be in jail, gang-raped daily, if the disgusting bitch at Social Services, Mona Green (mother of Dana Green...?!), had protected children instead of covering up reports of Shanks' own child abuses.

Actually, given Shanks' history as a child rapist, sodomite, and sheriff, he'd hopefully have been slowly tortured to death in prison years ago. So we could find his grave and piss on it.
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Re: Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby nekogirrl » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:42 pm

Chichibcc wrote:
The date on the third one reads January 27, 1993, though...I wonder who Laura Bailey is, and why Stoy drew this specifically for her?



I found a Laura Bailey (hyphenated last name), if it is the same person..who is listed as a criminalist for DOJ in Washington DC. Don't know if it is..somebody who is better at researching might want to look into it, if it matters....
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Re: 810415 810416 930127 Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby dmac » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:49 pm

Yes, I believe the Bailey mentioned was LE/DOJ. I think Stoy's map is interesting for it's timing (January 93) and for his certainty of the location of the tool box.
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Re: 810415 810416 930127 Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby nekogirrl » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:12 pm

makes me wonder if the tool box was missing until LE got there....if one of the hammers used in the crime was from the tool box, it's possible it had blood, fingerprints, or bloody fingerprints on it that LE did not want released. for whatever reason....in one of the interviews, Rick said that the box Tina loved was a pencil box...not a tool box, not a shoe box...my niece used to keep her "special things" in a pencil box when she was about 8....
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Re: 810415 810416 930127 Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby dmac » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:20 pm

I think the "missing boxes" are a huge red herring. Period. I think it's been a massive success on the part of LE (and LOON!) to keep pushing the "missing box(es)", in the sense it gets so many people wound up about the wrong things, wasting time. So many consider it "proof" Tina left alive and/or willingly. It's a wankfest, a monstrous red herring.

Missing box(es) as a win for LE, even 35 years on? Absolutely, in my book. One of scant few.
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Re: 810415 810416 930127 Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby nekogirrl » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:42 pm

yes. probably is. still reading the posts and trying to figure things out...usually the simplest explanation is the right one. the facts are pretty simple....Sue, Johnny and Dana died in the living room. Sue had the most injuries (pre-mortem), the boys had injuries that were really bad, but post-mortem. Dana was strangled and probably died first, because of the 3, he was the biggest and the hardest to control. you can fight like a rabid weasel, but if you weigh in at around a 100 pounds, you better be a Bruce Lee, or the rabid weasel will get stomped. Tina probably, (i hope, cause i have a nasty imagination), died in the bedroom. wouldn't take much to suffocate a 13 yr old with the build of a ten year old...pillow or blanket would do it...and leave no marks on the bones. (though i remember the bone expert saying the bones were the size one would expect a 12/13 year old to be..ick). so it's probably safe to say Sue was the main target, for whatever reason. And since Bo and Marty RELENTLESSLY placed themselves at the scene around the time of the murders, and lie worse than a nervous 5 year old...the only question i would have is why, and in what order. the inane staging could be a druggie idea involving helter skelter, but more probably in my mind, is just panicky, slightly drunk and/or stoned killers frantic to get attention off themselves. (or frantic, johnny come lately after the fact accomplices), none of whom have the brains to pour p$$$ out of a boot with directions printed on the heel.
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Re: 810415 810416 930127 Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby dmac » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:02 pm

Something I noticed some time back, when beginning the 3-D mockup of the cabin:

Look at the original color drawing. Look for evidence piece #65. It's a chunk of wall paneling SURROUNDING THE WINDOW in Sue's Corner. However, Stoy's photo report conflicts with the drawing, listing the drapes as being photographed and taken into evidence, without mentioning the paneling:

    65 / XXX Green curtain on south window. Blood on it.

Items 60-64 on Stoy's report match the drawing. Item 66 on Stoy's report is the chunk of wall taken from above the front door light switch, which is not part of the drawing. According to the drawing, item 65 is a chunk of wall far larger than the window and drapes. That chunk of wall and drapes aren't disturbed in later crime scene shots, after bodies, evidence, and other wall chunks have been removed, so I'm thinking the drapes and wall paneling surrounding the window were some of the last things removed- despite yet another clash with Stoy's report.
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Re: 810415 810416 930127 Three PCSO Cabin 28 Floorplans

Postby dmac » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:52 am

Update to my last post re: Item 62. In reviewing other photos, it appears the diagram incorrectly details item 62. In photos, it's numbered as a piece of wall panel, floor to ceiling, immediately to the left of the window. Also, ONE of the two curtains covering said window has been removed from the rod, and the remaining curtain spread to try to cover the window/block sunlight.
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