A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

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A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby dmac » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:18 pm

This thread is a repository for the discussion of primary motives for the murders. This initial post is brief and without links, as I'm a very busy lad. I've answered this Q in varying forms and places several times in the last few weeks and grow weary of it, so let's just do it all here.

WHAT WAS (WERE) THE MOTIVE(S)?

A: That's a vast field of rabbit holes this thread will try to map out. We know of main participants, but knowing their <individual, independent> motives and actions will lead to the other participants. Likewise, knowing all the participants (and their levels of contribution(s) to the crimes) would also help to unmask the core motives. A vicious cycle. Here's working theories on main participants and levels of involvement:

MARTY Leading up to (and including Saturday), Marty made it clear "heads would roll if shit didn't get straightened out." He said this on April 7th and on the Saturday of the murders (presumably at the bar), then made several more threats that he'd return to finish the job weeks later (to Wade in lockup, by phone from Klamath to 'friends' in Quincy, etc.) A leading belief that persists from 1981 is that Marty had a massive fixation on Sue. Whether unrequited or not, for Sue to be sleeping with Dareyl in the days leading up to the murders, a mere 50 yards outside Marty's own bedroom window, could be one impetus. His hatred of women, and need to blame ANY of his own shortcomings on them, are obvious. Dee Lake is obvious as the jackoff that told Marty to go to Reno VA in search of false PTSD benefits. Marty was FIRED by the Albins, next door at 25. He was pissed at the Albins and knew he was financially FUCKED. Yet he called Sue the Bitch when it was Jan that fired him? Yeah, the music shift really happened.

According to the Loonibi, Marty had more reason to want Jan Albin dead than anyone. Right, I know the Loonibi is bullshit, but I also think it needs other eyes. Mine are kinda full, and I want everyone to look at everything. There's half-truths everywhere.

Just as it's said Marty had a tiny hard-on for Sue that was unrequited, I am speaking out of sorts, because Marty made it clear several times about his anger and direction for his actions that night. Without getting stupid, I believe Marty had a fixation on Sue that began as or became sexual, but it was always based from Marty's aggression and anger. I think that's his core motive, based on how it turned out. Of course, in his confessions, Sue is the 'major bitch' that was meddling in his imploding marriage, and Loon is a vengeful sociopath who would frame anyone to shirk any blame.

BOUBEDE Bo was in Keddie for a reason. The stories of Bo & Marty meeting by chance in the bouncy bin at the Reno VA are BS, and everyone that repeats them (Marty, Bo, Loon, Dee) are all in on that angle of the joint alibi. It wasn't a chance meeting, and it wasn't at the VA. Why was Bo sleeping on the Smartt's couch? It wasn't to sell scam maps or advertising. It doesn't seem as though he & Marty planned to go off together doing carny scams, as it's quite clear Marty wouldn't leave Loon. I think Bo was in Keddie for something big, and that 28 screwed up The Plan. The level of Bo's involvement hinges on who was the target. The complete cock-up of a crime scene indicates a premeditated home invasion. Marty's threats indicate far more, but there's still indications of massive escalation, taking the crime far beyond the anticipated level. Boubede, with his history, would have been the one saying, "well, I've been down this road before. These people have to die."

MARILYN Loon is a nut-job. She was sleeping with many of Marty's pals, perhaps even DT &/or Shanks- although she was 25 years too old for pedo Shanks. Her alibi is completely intertwined with Marty's, Bo's, and (to an extent) Dee's. She was NOT home when she says she was, she did NOT go home from the bar & fall asleep watching programs that weren't even on TV that night, etc. Marty said she was asleep, Bo said she was wide awake. Nope, Loon is lying- she's involved. Motive? Marty wasn't the only nut-job asshat in that marriage. Maybe she'd cottoned onto Marty's obsession w/ Sue, maybe she had other reasons to cause harm at 28. When Loon talks, she mostly lies. If she talked more about her relationships with the victims, we'd know more about what motives she may have had. Marilyn Musgrove gets such a kick out of reliving the highlight of her life that the mere idea of being involved in a mass murder may have been enough motive for her. Also, when considering motives for the murders, it's logical to exclude Loon's story of knocking on Sue's door & inviting her to the bar (as Bo's 'date') for what it is: bullshit. Loon claims the BM Bros got increasingly upset at Sue as the night progressed ("How dare she say 'no'!"), and that she went home and fell asleep only to assume they killed Sue. Huh-uh. This is Loon's first major diversion from the Loonibi, which she's otherwise stuck to for 35 years. Every retelling of the Loonibi now includes the addition of her asking Sue to come along, and the guys becoming incensed. It didn't happen, and the non-existent snub is not the motive for Sue's death.

UPDATE 4/16: MARILYN STUCK HER DICK UP HER OWN HAIRY ASS HERE.

DEE LAKE He's a maggot and a liar who, like the dirtbag DeCrona, hides behind a bible. He's a key figure in this. He knows the answers. Definitely involved in the dumping of Tina's corpse. He, Marty, Bo, and Loon all participated in concocting (and perpetuating) multiple aspects of the Loonibi, including Dee's car, Dee's rifle (meant to distract from the one actually used in the murders), Marty and Bo meeting by chance, etc. Dee is MASSIVELY guilty and ON THE RUN.

TONY GAREDAKIS He places himself at cabin 28 the day of the murders, helping Sue and the kids gather firewood and deliver it to there. Sue's was one of few cabins with no wood stove, and there wasn't firewood on the property. The story by Mike Davis & Martell in cabin 13, of witnessing Sue and Avery Schreiber's doppelganger having massively heated (violent?) arguments shortly before the murders, appears to be what I've termed a 'reverse alibi' for Tony: Sue was dating this older dude in a grn/wh Blazer and often fought. One big, long, ugly fight they witnessed from a tiny window that doesn't afford the view they claim. "People on coke do weird shit', says Mike. So their story is supposed to lead suspicion away from Tony G (who looks exactly like Avery and was 23) and onto much OLDER Avery lookalike who drives a particular car and did a lot of drugs with Sue and wanted her dead shortly before the murders.

Doug Thomas fostered a culture of corruption and was friends with people on both sides of the law. Doug admits he was great pals with Marty. Together, they would often ride for hours on 'patrol' together. A perfect quote about DT is that he fostered a sense of security in the Plumas underworld, where criminals could do many things carte blanche, with no fear of reprisal. It led to a sense of entitlement among the very people he was supposed to be incarcerating.

April 11 was Marty's fake birthday, his real one being a month later. He used April 11 on military records (he joined illegally young), and apparently on some IDs (obviously including military). Many, including Loon, have offered the Saturday of the murders was his birthday, so they went to the bar for drinks and to celebrate. At least a couple of them felt damned-well entitled to Do What Thou Wilt, thanks to their deep friendship with the corrupt pal-sheriff-pigboy. They leave the bar and come back not once but TWICE. It appears having fun is out the window, and something else is afoot. Someone overhears his remarks about 'shit hitting the fan' and, soon enough, it does.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby JEP » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:43 pm

I have a question:

What was it about Sue that made her a target for a professional hit? What did Marty mean when he said heads are going to roll, why? These murders look so much like what the Columbians did to people who double crossed them. Not that MMB were a part of that, just an observation.

Another question: I'm still learning the site so I apologize if I missed the answer, but whose DNA was identified and where did it come from? I don't see a lot of activity in the threads, am I missing something?

Thank you!

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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby wren » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:07 pm

"Nope, Loon is lying- she's involved"

Certainly agreed there. And that suspicion is further strengthened by Justin saying that he will really talk about what he knows and saw once his "mother is gone". That blew me away; sounds promising. (I can't recall where I read that Justin said that specifically; I found it in some very old posts at MK's forum where I did some reading yesterday. If someone sees this and has more Info re: when/where Justin said this, please let me know...). It speaks volumes, doesn't it?

Speaming of "volumes" I just finished watching part 2 of JH's "documentary" (I'd never bothered watching them before) and toward the end there is that guy (name?) who apparently is writing a book with Justin about the murders and showed some correspondence in which Justin says the truth of what happened will come out soon, in the book being written about the murders. It would obviously be limited to what Justin saw and heard and so not sure how in depth it could delve regarding motive, etc... But who knows, the adult Justin seems reasonably well-spoken and, one might gather, of average intelligence so he may have picked up quite a bit. He and I are the same age-ish and I have good recall of what was going on in my 12 yr old life... Anyway, where the hell is this supposed book?? Has it been referenced anywhere else? I should have made a separate topic, I think.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby bbragg » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:41 pm

Does anyone think we will ever get to hear what really happened.i hope some day we will know .i think the family all ready knows.i know when my brother was murdered 54years ago and to this day .i still would give anything to see it solved.my mom went to her grave and all she said she wanted was to see my brother murder solved.i guess that is why I try to read everything on this case just to try and see something that might have been missed.thanks for all you guys have done.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby bbragg » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:43 pm

Just forgot to say there was no motive for my brother being murdered.and I believe there was a cover up.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby dmac » Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:47 pm

Back to the OP:

This post holds a lot of information concerning the rationale of Marty and Bo's relationship, including subservience and god fixation. Also, if Marty had a fixation on Bo, it also ties in to all the other fixations he had: quoting the bible while throwing hatchets at his family; his unrequited fixation on Sue, etc. I've been discussing these and other aspects for some time with various people, including forum members and Princess, Bo's great-niece. Cheshire was able to quickly research and find the answer to one of the lingering questions I've had for many long months: Did Marty go to the VA to suck the govt teat? Yes, I believe it was a (if not THE) main motivating factor behind admitting himself to the VA mental ward in Reno.

Cheshire found this (I hope you don't mind me quoting you and giving due credit, Chesh):

    "In 1980, APA added PTSD to DSM-III [Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders], which stemmed from research involving returning Vietnam War Veterans, Holocaust survivors, sexual trauma victims, and others. Links between the trauma of war and post-military civilian life were established."

Dee had already become a major pal/influence on Marty. Dee was on campus and all over Quincy/Plumas, his main goal apparently getting vets to sign up for benefits. I'm the first to say the VA and the US government are criminally culpable and proficient at screwing over our military/vets and their families, but neither Dee, Marty, or Bo ever had PTSD from military service. Only Dee saw anything close to combat, which was when his repair ship saw a little bit of enemy fire within a stretch of a couple days while in the waters around Nam. That's it! Bo was a truck driver, never stationed anywhere near action, and Marty was a cook, stationed at one of the cushiest and safest bases in all of the Viet Nam era. In fact, Marty and Bo found it so dangerous, they re-upped! (I believe Dee did as well: records show up of him stationed on the Gompers in 70, and the Waddell from 71-74. That, I believe, proves one re-up.)

In March of 1981, one can conclude Marty had already been fired- otherwise he would not have been free to be an in-patient in Reno. I've been told by LE that he was probably fired due to poor performance, which only shows the circumstances of his dismissal clearly are not nailed down. When, exactly, was he fired, and why? Kautzer (15) and Davis (13) had probably already been served eviction notices if they were out by April 1 (LE claimed Albins kicked them out for pushing drugs)-- was Marty fired for the same reason? Were the Albins simply clearing house again, as they had periodically done with bad elements after taking over?

Free housing was said to be part of the enticement to get Marty to come from Loon's pseudo-aunt's house in Burney/Cottonwood Park. Either way, by mid-March, Marty was in the laughing academy, his only known income coming from drugs. Of course, this takes us back to Dee and the bullshit PTSD claims. To quote Cheshire, "The timing for him to be jumping on the PTSD bandwagon would have been perfect." It's the first or second thing Marty tried to establish with his therapist-- we don't have access to his paperwork, so we don't know how much he played up the PTSD angle before being rebuffed by his outpatient therapist. Personally, I think he'd tried hard while locked up to convince the Powers that Be, and they also knew from his deployment records that his PTSD claims were pure fraud, which is why he laughed off one last failed attempt with his new outpatient therapist. [Of course, the PTSD fraud attempts continued sporadically through the rest of his life, with him eventually winning a class action lawsuit against the VA and eventually, and falsely, gaining those benefits.]

I wrote this post on-the-fly, trying to get a couple ideas strung together before I forgot to post them altogether. I'll try to re-write this later to add more clarity, as well as tie in several other points: As Dee's influence on Marty seems to grow, so does Dee's potential for direct involvement in the murders; Loon said rent was paid through May- had they already been given an eviction notice? etc.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby Chichibcc » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:19 pm

wren wrote: Anyway, where the hell is this supposed book?? Has it been referenced anywhere else? I should have made a separate topic, I think.


The book project never fully materialized, and the documentary is the only place where it is ever truly referenced or brought up.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby bbragg » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:16 pm

I don't know if anyone has talked about this or not but here gos.i was wondering if maybe sue had talked to some one about the people that where selling drugs in that area.a imformate,she could have not wanted her kids around people like that and she was narcing on someone or people.i know the people in this area will kill you if you are a narc.that might be why know body is talking.i know I have seen things in my neighbor hood that is not right but I keep my mouth shut.i know some people come up missing or dead.and the law don't even care.the saying is a narc is a dead man walking.and I know now drugs are in every neighbor hood.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby dmac » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:54 pm

dmac wrote:This thread is a repository for the discussion of primary motives for the murders.


I wrote it last year. Read the OP so it puts this case into perspective. It is too damned accurate.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby miniondi » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:30 pm

Although I completely agree that Marty and Bo did NOT suffer in any way, shape or form from PTSD, I wanted to point out that the guys I Know who do suffer from legitimate PTSD did reup. It stems from a combination of not being aware they are suffering from PTSD and no desire to uproot entire life plan/career.... or something I am not aware of but they all did reup several times. And I know for a fact they saw some really awful stuff.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby dmac » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:46 pm

the military is all about destroying personality in favor of reactionary obedience. Therein lies the issues.

Marty re-upped. Kicked out.
Dee Re-upped, never saw action.
Bo re-upped twice, went AWOL days after his final re-up. My guess is he planned on using the re-up bonus to skip.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby dmac » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:33 pm

miniondi wrote:Although I completely agree that Marty and Bo did NOT suffer in any way, shape or form from PTSD, I wanted to point out that the guys I Know who do suffer from legitimate PTSD did reup. It stems from a combination of not being aware they are suffering from PTSD and no desire to uproot entire life plan/career.... or something I am not aware of but they all did reup several times. And I know for a fact they saw some really awful stuff.

I had to find this post to quote. Two nights ago I was watching Barney Miller reruns and Dietrich said something that resonated. It was about newly-diagnosed "Vietnam Syndrome" (I'm unsure how it was termed), where many vets are compelled to repeat the patterns of violence.

I need to know the term the Dietrich character said so I may research it. The character was a sublime, overly-calm know-it-all who spouted facts and deep background on any subject mentioned, and I figure that episode originally aired in 1980, but I cannot verify the episode to watch it again. I was running from the room for a potty break when he said it, so my mind was on my bladder.

It was after Jack Soo died but it was before the Agent Orange episode, which features Wojo realizing he'd been exposed during his own Nam stint. That makes it the 1980 season, according to my reasoning. This brilliant sitcom dealt with dark humor and deep political issues, so Nam came up frequently.

I want to see the episode again so I can hear exactly what Steve Lanesberg (Dietrich) said, and what the real name was for Nam Syndrome. When looking up "Vietnam Syndrome", it refers to America's aversion to the war, much less it's continuation after Cronkite nailed it on national TV as a lost game and defenseless policy.

Sorry for going into too much detail, but I want to research this PTSD/Nam-related diagnosis and all I can do is tell how I heard of it.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby GloomasLake » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:47 pm

I'm glad I came across this post, I've been thinking about the motives lately and this filled me in. I wonder if Marty intended to rape Sue and he couldn't follow through with it.

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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby dmac » Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:11 am

I don't think Marty could have followed through because he was a limp dick. Sexual rage, no sex.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby nekogirrl » Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:09 am

rape is about power, not sex...whoever posed sue wanted to degrade and humiliate her. just because she wasn't raped, doesn't mean that wasn't the motive, or one of the motives...andrei chikatilo killed 52 known victims and possibly more...he never raped any of them, because he was impotent. but his murders were ALL about sex. this is what makes me think the crime was personal and that sue was the main target, and the kids collateral damage...because if it was a random crime, there would be other, similar crimes both before AND after keddie. i would expect a series, of escalating violence in each, because the killer would need increasing amounts of violence to feed the need. the fact that tina was taken either means she was dead, and removed from the scene to muddy the waters as to who was the main victim, or if she was alive, because she was a younger female and would be easier to control... i think sue went to bed before the boys got there and left the front door open for them.(remember, there wasn't a bathroom downstairs, so johnny would have had to come thru the front or back door to use the one upstairs). i think the boys got there, maybe raided the fridge for leftovers from dinner and went to johnny's room to chill and hang out. the killers walked in thru the front door and went straight to the girls' room and it started there. the neighbors heard screams at 1.15am and tina slept right by a window....if the boys were downstairs and heard screams, they would have run up the back stairs to see what was going on, and it escalated from there. that may even be why it escalated. i doubt the killers expected either boy to be there. johnny was usually at the meeks' house on the weekend, and tina next door at the seabolts'. maybe they expected both girls to be next door that night. which would leave sue there alone with just the 3 younger boys....interested in your opinion of my half-assed theory, dmac.... :;^^: ...and i try to not post anything unless i have something valid to say.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby GloomasLake » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:52 am

Ah! So Marty was impotent, I wondered if anyone had info about his sexuality. That makes a lot of sense and Nekogrrl, what you said is absolutely true, he didn't have to rape her for this to be a sexual crime. I find Tina mystifying, I could see using a woman's children to gain control over her but to take her from the scene is very risky, dead or alive
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby lynabus » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:11 am

Dmac,
Delayed Stress Syndrome a person who believed that they were the savior of the world.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby narmrn » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:19 pm

Unless I misunderstood previous posts...was it not Bo that claimed to be sexually impotent secondary to a gunshot wound that never actually happened....Never remember reading anywhere where Marty suffered from the same affliction.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby GloomasLake » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:59 am

There is something in that strange DOJ interview about Bo being impotent due to a gunshot wound to the hip and groin area. A gunshot wound he received when he was a cop. Could they have both been impotent? I thought I read somewhere that Bo was a pedophile, it looks like Loon was the source of that info, so who knows.
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Re: A Progressing Understanding: Motives for Murders

Postby dmac » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:01 pm

Bo's story of being impotent was a smokescreen, meant to imply he wasn't involved in the sexually-motivated murders because his dick was blown off. It was, of course, his uncle Alvin that was shot in the thigh while doing a holdup. It's an incredibly stupid part of the Loonibi (which parts aren't?), because his motivations are transparent- otherwise why bring it up? And how would Bo know it was a sex crime if he wasn't involved? And, as most know now, sexually motivated crimes are about power, and many of the culprits are impotent. Just more moronics from Boronics.

As for Marty being impotent, that's just supposition on my part. Men with his type and severity of rage towards women often are, but I believe the primary issue is their true motives behind the attacks, how messed up they were, and how quickly their plan backfired before Johnny and Dana interrupted them, putting the crimes on a different course.
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