Why does this bother me?

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Breberry » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:26 am

Wow!! Dmac, thanks for that link. I dont know how to phrase this without offending anyone, but I came to suspect the Meeks within a couple of days reading everything I can about the murders. In my opinion, they fueled the fire. I wonder if we will ever know the truth. I was really shocked to learn that the surving siblings didnt even put a headstone up for Tina. I still would like to know why the person who made the documentary, Josh, is considered a untrustworthy person, I havent seen the documentaries and I dont know exactly what is going on with that.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby IPO » Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:40 pm

What bothers me is that, while Sue (Glenna) was the victim of an absolutely horrible crime, nobody seems to know very much about her. She was going through a divorce, but had stayed with this man and had five children with him. Birth control was available and so she did not need to keep having children with a man who abused her. Then she moves to be closer to her siblings (one brother and one sister that i know of....please correct me if i'm wrong), who both also had children and weren't financially well off. let's be honest, it sounds like they were barely scraping by themselves so, unless the three siblings put their money together, and rented a big old house together the support system already had plenty of weak links.

Some people state she was shy and mostly stayed home. Yet, in the short while she lived in the Keddie area she seemed to have no shortage of men in her life. Where I live, not too many men would be interested in dating a woman with five children and no money or job prospects.

Who was she? Shy or secretive? A caring mother struggling to raise her family of five teens/children, or a woman who just lived with five children/teenagers. Did she receive welfare or child support and kept the five with her because of the income? Or, did she love them, spend time with them, and show an interest in guiding them theough the various stages of their lives.

Was she overwhelmed, or did she just not care? Who did she befriend and trust? Anybody? Did she choose to live her life on the right side of the law, or had the lines blurred. Would her children say that they felt safe and loved under her care? Did the younger ones trust her with stories of what was happening in their lives? Did she know where the older ones were at all times or even some of the time? Did she care? Did she know who their friends were? Did she make an attempt to meet the parents of the friends of her children?

Did she bring her friends home or meet them? Who knew her? Did her brother? did her sister? what did she do with her days? How did she spend her time?

i ask these questions because I keep coming back to the question that was drilled into me when I worked an administrative position for a Superintendent and inspector in our City's Criminal Investigation Division of Police Services. When a murder takes place that is not random, two questions always arise (because, in all likelihood the murder was going to take place at some point): 1. Why now 2. Why at this location

Something had escalated to the point that Sue had to die. I don't believe this was a case where someone just wanted to scare her and it got out of hand. But, why the murder on a night when the cabin had 7 people inside, and the possibility that Sheila might even decide to come home in the middle of the night.

If Justin was a plant in the house, then whoever made sure he was there to keep Rick and Greg in their room had to have known through him that Tina was also spending the night at home and that Johnny and Dana were also going to be there that night.

it seems that Justin was with Sue and her family most of the day (maybe they were even all jammed in Sue's car together at one point). Also, it seems that many people walked and drove past Sue's cabin (because of the proximity to the bar). As her brother Don was at the bar that night, then he probably was there most Saturday nights and in all likelihood could have dropped in at his sisters. The Meeks family knew about everyone sleeping in Cabin 28 that night. the Seaboldts would have known (through Sheila). if Sue talked to her brother Don on the phone, he would have known. Would Justin have mentioned to his mother who was going to be at cabin 28 that night?

Why that night? What did Sue know? Or was it because of someone that she knew and by murdering her it was to send a message to that person? Who was Sue Sharp?
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby dmac » Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:05 pm

IPO, I've long had a theory that this was Marty's birthday party: April 11 and May 11 were his multiple birthdays, and he was pissed at Sue, and April 11 was all about his party for himself.

Everything about the murders points to Sue, but logic says others were involved far more than to help stupid shitheads Marty, Bo, and Loon get out of a quad they got themselves into... It's far more complicated than a murderous birthday party.

Marty's birthday mystery still ranks at the top of the heap, for me.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby IPO » Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:09 pm

You know something, you could be right on the nail about the birthday thing. psychopaths (people who can feel nothing for anybody but themselves and can lie their way through a lie detector because lying is just second nature to them), can use anything that fits into their world of crazy and make it seem like justice.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby dmac » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:17 am

As for the Birthday Theory that Marty threw himself a quad:

    490411 Social Security Administration in Baltimore, MD, records this as Martin Ray Smartt's birth date. APRIL 11
    490511 U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs BIRLS Death File lists Martin Smartt's birth on this day. MAY 11
It goes on and on that Marty had a real birthday and a fake one. Sounds to me like Marty took class 101 in How to Fake Your ID. Dee Lake teaches that course better than anyone.

PS: Never take your pet to a trauma vet, it's Dee Lake with a hip knife and a dumb wife.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Chichibcc » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:25 pm

dmac wrote:I've been re-writing the case overview for the main site all morning, over and over editing and adding and changing, etc. It's a longer read now but it has much bigger balls than the last version. It names Hagwood as a liar, Mike Gamberg as an old boy cop, called out by many sources as a corrupt pigboy. It also asks why Marty was pals with sheriff Thomas, not why they happened to be best friends. It also points out the 'Loonibi' conspiracy. Marilyn and Marty and Bo were co-conspirators in that bullshit alibi, so I named Marilyn Musgrove as a viable suspect. No damned way she cooked up that alibi without being involved in several felonies.

I hope it makes sense, it's a work in progress, but I want it to reek of how bad this case stinks.

http://keddie28.com/

Any ideas for improvements, or critiques, are welcome. I want to build the synopsis into a huge article outlining the crap we do know, and the blatant bullshit which is tantamount to LE publicly executing the victims again.


I like it, it's a concise summary of the level of corruption and shadiness regarding the case, while also adding enough interest to encourage those new to the site to read further.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby phoebe » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:03 pm

Hi all, first post from me Phoebe.

It's funny that this is literally the second day since I first heard of this case having stumbled across the Josh Hancock documentaries on youtube and already having read just a few threads on here, my initial "gut reaction" to Sheila Sharp appears to be correct.

During the documentaries, Sheila is filmed sitting on some steps wearing a pink shirt and throughout her entire interview she doesn't look at the camera at all and her eyes are going everywhere and in any direction apart from at the camera. I noticed it at the time but I couldn't attribute it to anything based on anything I already knew. I still can't attribute it to anything based on what I've read on here so far except that there seems to be a general distrust of her.

If I didn't know that she was sleeping mere feet away the night her family was being violently murdered, I would put it down to camera shyness. But somehow I just get a feeling that she knows more than she's saying. Maybe that has already been talked about on here in which case I'll find out soon enough.

I'll end my first post by saying thanks to dmac and everyone else involved who has spent their time trying tirelessly to find justice for this family. I also think it's a really good idea that you're protecting yourself from people who just want to see gorey pictures etc.

And with that I'm off to furnish myself with some more knowledge and maybe at some point be of some help.

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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Shellsbells » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:53 am

Hi Phoebe,

Welcome :)
You will find a lot of information on this forum.

I know what you mean about Sheila. I have never thought about Sheila maybe knowing more, not for any reason, just never thought about it. I lean more towards Marty, and Bo, being the main ones, with Dee and Marilyn knowing more then what they say. But im still looking over stuff. It sucks, because I dont think anyone will ever be arrested and proved to be the killers for this. The victims deserve justice in this.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby phoebe » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:17 pm

Thanks for your reply Shells.

Having sifted through a ton more stuff than I had when I wrote the above post, my initial feeling has proven to be correct. I don't think Sheila had any direct involvement but she KNOWS something. I have just finished reading about how she and her brother can't agree on when and where Johnny and Dana were last seen. I find this odd to say the very least.

One of the most apparent things about this case that really stands out is the obvious fact so many people are involved either directly in the violence, or in the burying of the truth. There's a good reason that killers usually keep their crimes to themselves and/or those directly involved but here we have, apparently, people lending a hand here there and everywhere and I find the idea that no one has officially come forward, from that plethora of people, to be stranger than fiction.

For this to have been kept so quiet for so long is indicative of the level of corruption and degree of cover up... a far, far bigger picture is hidden behind the apparent simple story of quadruple murder. I do feel pretty overwhelmed by it all and I am no stranger to violent crime cases, I'm not sure what I can bring to the forum or what I can do to help but the more I have read the more I do believe that at some point this case will be officially solved. I just don't think that it will be before those who deserve justice are gone from this planet.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Catcala » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:07 pm

Ok I am still trying to figure out how this Heather knew that Tina had supposedly gathered up phone cord to take out to the killers. I thought I had read most everything Justin said at the time. As he was the only "known" witness still alive wouldn't it have to had been him that said that? Other than the other 2 boys in the room and we don't really know what they may have saw or said when questioned. If this info was given to the police wouldn't this end up somewhere in transcripts or reports. If this were true what might this say about Tina's involvement? Not in the actual murder I mean. Just because she may have done that doesn't mean she did it willingly. She could have been threatened, she could have been crying the whole time. I'm sure she was terrified of these people. I just find it odd someone would say something only one of the killers or witness would have known.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby dmac » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:21 pm

I believe the Heather mentioned in the video (cabin tour, right?) was either a family friend, or one of the many uncredited people Josh worked with to make the vids. The story about Tina helping seems to stem from the earliest days, when Doug Thomas was trying to place part of the blame on the youngest victim of the murders. There is no known info that suggests Tina was involved in any way, so when Rick was repeating Heather's story, he was repeating gossip.

Since the time the vid was made, we've learned the murders began in the girls' bedroom where they were both asleep, and there were multiple bloodstains in the room. That seems to extinguish all the BS about Tina being involved, much less the longstanding pipe dream that Tina slept through the attacks only to wake up at the tail end of the murders and walk into the living room. That's a fairy tale.

The killers not only left the phone off the hook, but cut the wire from where it entered the cabin: behind the bed Sue was sleeping on in the bedroom. Perhaps they considered using it in the staging phase, but opted for something stronger, which is why they left it coiled on the LR floor. It had nothing to do with Tina.

Tina and Sue were the first attacked, and probably both bound with tape and gagged after they'd screamed. There is nothing to indicate otherwise, and it would fly in the face of known events and logic had she been attacked and left unbound to wander the cabin.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby Catcala » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:12 pm

Thank you for that. Yes I was just reading more of the information about Sue and Tina having both been in their room already when they came in room and attacked them. That sounds more plausible. As for the posters who keep saying, then who let the killers in?, well it was keddie. Most residents say they never locked their doors and if she was awaiting John and Dana to come home she may not have locked them then.

BTW as a newbie I thank you for all this work you have done on this. I am totally astounded at some of it, I was just reading Stoys report that was pages long that you called bs on and then all that work you did rewriting the whole thing and making it searchable. The search feature works very well that was how I found the posts on Heather after watching the video clip. Again thank you.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby dmac » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:51 pm

as for John, don't forget his room was downstairs and there was no internal stairwell. Nor was there a bathroom downstairs. Not only were doors left unlocked in Keddie and Quincy, but Johnny needed doors left unlocked just to have access to the bathroom.

I think those believing doors are normally locked either are too young or come from bigger towns where innocence had already died.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby tpgen » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:57 pm

John saw a car he didn't recognize and wondered who was with his mother. Why else wouldn't he and Dana simply go into his bedroom from outside. Curiosity.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby dmac » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:42 am

tpgen wrote:John saw a car he didn't recognize and wondered who was with his mother. Why else wouldn't he and Dana simply go into his bedroom from outside. Curiosity.

I have no clue what any of that means. Please repeat, but break it down.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby tpgen » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:22 am

Teenage boys are by nature, quite lazy. Had they seen the car and walked up to it, they might have been surprised to see "him" in the car with a taped up baby girl. Instead, they chose to enter the house and be met by "others".
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby dmac » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:35 pm

You're saying Johnny and Dana came home via the back yard only to see Tina taped up with a man in the back of a car, and due to surprise they decided to walk on? Your info on the ciggies was enlightening, yet this is beyond any reason or logic.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby tpgen » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:23 pm

No. They did NOT see. Please read my post again.
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby dmac » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:46 pm

OOOH! My mistake!

You're saying Johnny and Dana missed it, or are you speculating it never happened?

Are you suggesting Johnny and Dana passed by Tina taped up in a car? Show evidence now, because that wacky speculation makes the last several posts a complete wankfest. It also means you've wasted MY time, which I do not tolerate. Do you tolerate your life being wasted by bullshit?
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Re: Why does this bother me?

Postby tpgen » Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:05 pm

To clarify: (Had they not only SEEN the car but actually walked UP TO IT, we might not even be discussing this case.) Instead, they chose to enter the house and be met by "others". By the way, who is left handed? The stab wounds on Sue are clearly from a left handed person. (10 oclock vs. 2 oclock)
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