Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby gumshoe » Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:52 am

Thanks dmac, for explaining that. I have noticed a lot of inconsistencies in the various reports. That makes it all the harder to get to the truth of it all. Let me know when you get a chance to check it out further.
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby dmac » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:27 pm

Because my reply about the possible pellet wound to Sue's chest involves a small chunk of an non-circulated photo, I've separated my reply to this new thread, in the images section.
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby Salem » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:51 pm

I haven't gotten all the way through this thread yet. I'm still on page 2 so this may have been asked and answered but, could the butt end of the rifle have been used to make the marks on Dana's buttocks and head? Seems one of the others also had marks with lines through the mark - maybe Sue? Could they have been made with the butt end of the rifle? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't some rifles have a material, like rubber, glued to the butt end? And doesn't that material often have a pattern in it? How big is the butt end of a rifle? Maybe 4-5 inches long and 1-2 inches wide?
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby dmac » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:00 pm

My dad had the same model, so I was quite familiar with it as a kid. It was also Daisy's most popular pump model, as I recall. The butt was all plastic, and had a slight curve to it making it slightly concave. As you can see from thephoto I posted, it's a little concave. It also appears to be made of several pieces because of the faux wood finish, black butt, and white line, but that's all a paint job. It was two pieces of molded plastic screwed or glued together into one piece.

as for the wound to Sue and Dana that are very similar and consistent in size and appearance, it's not a match for the butt. With Dana, the wound crossed both of his buttocks, and a similar bruise was on his thigh. These are all too long, and narrow, for it to be the butt of the rifle.
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Re: The pellet gun

Postby dmac » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:36 pm

This is from 2011, my virgin post in this thread:

dmac wrote:[note: I've never seen the photo being described in the above clip. The only shots I have of the area described were taken after the bodies were removed and chunks of blood-stained carpet cut out and taken into evidence. While I see an object that may pass for a gun ramp, my assumption is that the ramp had also already been taken into evidence. Then again, there is plenty of things mentioned as in evidence that are clearly in view in shots taken at the same time. As the clip says, they "later determined", so maybe they hadn't even processed the scene enough to notice the elephant in the room. For the sake of argument and the fact it closely resembles the area I've deduced the ramp was found, here's a shot of the scene, with what may be the ramp circled in yellow:]


That photo matches where the ramp was seen in crime scene photos, bodies undisturbed, Sue still covered.. This cannot be true. I must have already figured this out but forgotten the answer.

What bothers me most, with the time lapse, is we had info about the gun and the broken sights, and so many people still believed all weapons (restraints such as multiple rolls of med tape are WEAPONS) were from within 28, as if this was a crime of convenience.

It was a premeditated attack. Ask Marilyn!

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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby lynabus » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:34 pm

dmac,
The marks across Dana's buttocks and thigh...Could they have been caused by a belt? I am still reading posts and some photos only show up as an x and I have come to the understanding that it is likely due to the fact the I am still a newbie.
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby dmac » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:48 pm

nope, not a belt.
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby lynabus » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:13 pm

I came to that conclusion of a belt being used by reading this
With Dana, the wound crossed both of his buttocks, and a similar bruise was on his thigh. These are all too long, and narrow, for it to be the butt of the rifle.

Thanks for answering my question dmac
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby dmac » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:24 am

more importantly is the quote from the autopsy report:

    "The posterior aspects of the body are unremarkable except for 2 roughly rectangular zones of bruising over both buttocks. Each is approximately 2 inches in greatest dimension, and on section hemorrhage is present in the underlying fat. Also present on the posterior aspect of the left thigh in its mid upper portion exists another 2 inch zone of roughly rectangular bluish-red oozing which also shows underlying hemorrhage on section. "

The wound to Sue's thigh is somewhat consistent with Dana's, except a pattern is seen within the bruise, perhaps indicating the design of the weapon. Sue was presumably struck on bare flesh, whereas Dana was wearing underwear and corduroy pants, which may have provided enough cushioning to hinder the weapon pattern from being transferred.

    "The left thigh shows over its anteromedial aspect, an oblique rectangular shaped bruise mark with oblique lines in its center."
bruise shown on aut diagram

The 'oblique lines' pattern would, in my opinion, match neither the rifle barrel or leg from the card table.
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby thumper001 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:40 am

I was wondering if a blow from the butt end of the rifle could have left the bruising described?
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby dmac » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:48 am

been there, done that... Read up ↑↑↑

viewtopic.php?f=15&p=16831#p16728
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby lynabus » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:45 pm

Thanks for answering my questions dmac. That debunks my thought on it being a belt used.
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby dmac » Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:40 pm

Recent discussions include the possibility the 880 was used as a bludgeon in several ways. It certainly was.

It was definitely used to create the puncture wound on Sue's right cheek. The butt may have caused the ablation to the left top of Sue's head.

Weapon 4 may have been used to obliterate LE identifying wounds caused by the rifle, as the killers tried to remove all items from their kill kit in the staging. Still, they left behind the various bits of the sights from the barrel. And the pellet, which would have traveled at approx 660 fps at the max of ten pumps.

I've been looking very closely at hi-rez shots of 880s to see if any surface of the weapon match any of the wounds I've seen, in particular the W4 wounds with the slanted lines. There's no surface on an 880 that could be responsible for the W4 wounds. There's many odd patterns on the rifle, including a tightly-weaved check pattern on the stock and on butts of some models, but nothing- other than the sight- that can be directly tied to a wound.

Here's several images, including many of the sight that punctured Sue's cheek, and other surfaces, including the butt heel which may have caused the ablation on Sue's head.

Image . . Image . . Image

Image . . Image . . Image

The pattern of the W4 wounds also make the table leg a highly unlikely candidate. In other words, add another weapon to the kill kit the killers brought.
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby dmac » Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:13 pm

The killers brought many weapons and used each in a unique pattern.

The star ablation on the left top side of Sue's head was massive, but the cause cannot be W4, etc. All known or theorized weapons had different shapes, weights, patterns. W4 is far heavier than previously theorized, more like a work tool or something workers at the RR saw every damned day. My best new guess is W4 had a lot of weight, strength, and inertia to cause those wounds. Something common, equivilent to tie bar but with a very unique pattern.

The cause of the massive flesh wound to Sue's skull- which did not break the skull- lines up exactly with Gamberg's assessment that it may have been thee 880 rifle butt. It could be something else entirely.

I've seen two unique versions of the 880 with differing butt heels, and one seems more obvious than the other as a possible cause.

Somebody better bring something solid to the table to dissuade us, but it's a talentless plea: nobody has ANYTHING to save Dee, Marty, Loon, Bo, Tony, and SO MANY MORE. DeCrona? He's fucked! Thomas? FUCKED! Stoy? FUCK YOU, bitch!
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby dmac » Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:05 pm

Let me eat my own feces upon assessing what I'd just written, I'm not at all happy with the idea W4 had to be heavier (more inertia) than the table leg.

All we need is a common wound pattern. I expect the weapon to be common, available, perhaps railroader related, and the inertia came from the killers, not the weapon itself. That's key.

I'm nowhere near as smart as profiler John Douglas. He's America's own one-man Vidocq. He's changed the entire landscape, and it bothers me he was lied to at the start of his profiling careerby none other than PCSO and DOJ. MASSIVE LIES.

My bet is w4 is lightweight and demands tremendous force from the killer who posthumously wounded the dead. Yeah, that's 180 from what I just thought. This was tremendous, intentional, postmortem damage.

FBI's John Douglas is a true hero of mine. PCSO and DOJ lied to him. He may have nailed this case in 81 had he not been LIED TO. No big deal, Doug Thomas is a murderer.

John Douglas has saved COUNTLESS lives!
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby dmac » Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:25 pm

As an FYI, when I was researching this case, I researched John Douglas to see when he did his assessment of Keddie. It was one of the first cases he actively reported on in a very tentative wing of the FBI built around his work on turning the past into the future, into graphing where the killer lives.

John Douglas is the genius.

He was lied to by PCSO and CA-DOJ, yet some wonder why one of his earliest official assessments mirrored that of PCSO and DOJ?

Shame on the FOOLS of this case. JD was informed by intentionally false info.

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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby budrfligh » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:22 pm

Dmac I am glad you have recognized John's true nature. I hope he was able to help now that truth is out there. We had a few soats about him. He's a Facebook friend a hero of mine. I was in college to join fbi profile unit, but had kids. In the 80's this was new science. I thank you for vindicating him. I also appreciate your ability to admit to being human and fallible. You and I have come a long way lol!
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby budrfligh » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:27 pm

Thank you dmac for being able to admit to being human and fallible. John Douglas has been a fb friend and a hero for me. I was in college with sites set on profiling. Then I had kids... Dmac I hope you are right and those scum pretend law enforcement get fully punished. I believe at minimum they staged the scene.
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby budrfligh » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:30 pm

A light butt of a rifle would require rage to leave the marks? But Dana could have been struck lengthwise across the legs with the rigle???
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Re: Daisy Powerline 880 Air Rifle & Sight / Adjuster Ramp

Postby dmac » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:40 pm

I'm saying the rifle is not #4. Also, if #4 was used to hide rifle wounds, it would logically have been left at the scene- preferably staged alongside the hammer and knife.

Logic is not a strong suit for any of these bitches.
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