Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby AliWProk » Tue May 17, 2016 6:57 am

In the Sac Bee May 2, 2016, Hagwood states:

“I knew the two boys who were murdered. I worked with them the entire summer before the murders,” he said. (http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2016/05/ ... r-mystery/)

Where did Johnny and Dana work the summer of 1980 with Hagwood?
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Re: Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby narmrn » Tue May 17, 2016 2:28 pm

I read somewhere that all 3 boys were employed at the Plumas County Fairgrounds during the summer...
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Re: Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby Bozdog » Tue May 17, 2016 4:00 pm

Sheriff Hagwood had a summer job at the Fairgrounds doing clean up etc. He did this for many summers.

I think Johnny and Dana were working there not so much as a summer job but a requirement ....... ???
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Re: Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby AliWProk » Wed May 18, 2016 7:54 am

Thanks. It may not be relevant, but I thought one of the many timelines had Johnny meeting Dana in 1981.
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Re: Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby dmac » Wed May 18, 2016 10:33 am

My understanding is Dana was doing it as probation requirement/payback for the tire incident. I know Johnny was a hellion, but I've seen no mention of legal troubles requiring restitution labor.
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Re: Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby AliWProk » Wed May 18, 2016 10:39 am

Thanks, dmac. I remember mention of Dana's run-ins with the law. Makes sense.

So this was when the Sharps were living in Quincy. Johnny must have sought work for cash. I'll bet he ran into all sorts of savory characters there.

Did Marty ever work a carnival/fair there? Could that be his first contact with the Sharps?
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Re: Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby dmac » Wed May 18, 2016 10:57 am

See here:

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=422&p=16394&hilit=CETA#p16394

It's hard to know if Marty worked the fair. All I know is he was a carny before and after the murders, and that he and Bo joined up shortly after the murders, hooking up with a circus to travel across country- to escape. TOGETHER. Man-Mates!

I'd most like to know where MMB were prior to going to the bar. The Sharps took Justin to ball practice Sat morning, but there's no mention of them taking him home. Who did? Why was Marty seen at the arcade in EQ Sat morning or afternoon? Yes, its the same one Johnny was at with R Meeks Fri night and Sat morning.

If Marty ran into the Sharps Sat prior to the murders, where and why? Was there any interaction between Sue and MMB that day, including Justin's arrangement to sleep over? Was Justin an unwitting plant?
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Re: Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby AliWProk » Wed May 18, 2016 11:12 am

That's a fine question - what happened in the Smart household during the Saturday, prior to the trip to the bar, etc? When was the decision made - and who made it - to allow Justin to sleep at the Sharps? Had he ever done so before? Did Sue ask Marilyn to let him sleep over (we hear that she apparently went door to door looking for takers for the sleepover)?

And I am still trying to figure out where Casey was the entire night - did they really leave him there, in cabin 26, alone, whilst in the bar/murdering the neighbors? Did they lock him in? Check on him? Or did his "parents" play an epic game of ditch with him?

Where was Bo? All day long Saturday?

This case drives me nuts.
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Re: Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby dmac » Wed May 18, 2016 11:24 am

Loon states here (in the group chat we had where she joined):

Where was Casey while you were at the bar? "at home asleep"
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Re: Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby AliWProk » Wed May 18, 2016 12:05 pm

Lovely. So Loon says Casey was left home alone while she and the Blues Brothers went to the bar and murdered the neighbors. Great.

Her statement about Justin and sleepovers at the Sharps is contradictory: Had Justin ever spent the night with the Sharps before that night? "I don't think that was his first time. Remember he didn't get to Keddie until xmas of 80." Yeah, and the Sharps moved in in November. And the murders happened in April 1981. So did he spend the night at the Sharps before or not? UGH, I hate liars.
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Re: Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby GloomasLake » Wed May 18, 2016 12:07 pm

I am curious about that cassette tape, has anyone heard anything about it before?
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Re: Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby Shellsbells » Wed May 18, 2016 5:59 pm

The tape of the person saying it would be Tinas skull found was known, but that was the first time it was aired publicly
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Re: Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby dmac » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:03 pm

I know this thread's gone a bit cold, but there's a few lingering points that could stand clarification and further scrutiny.

I recall Hagwood and I discussing J&D and his working with them, saying that J&D were less working than fucking around on the clock. Here's another huge win: Dana didn't smoke, nor did Johnny. Otherwise Greg would have noticed them taking off every five minutes for a smoke break. I've worked with addicts, and smokers get about half the work done as a real person. Yeah, I know a few of my closest friends here smoke. Get over it. The truth stinks less than your breath.

It's also interesting to take note of what's written on Dana's death cert. We know Sue was a CETA worker, supposedly enrolled in classes at FRC in order to get remuneration. I have grave doubts Sue was upholding her end of that bargain in April 81, as we know she'd dropped classes, and there's not one mention of her taking classes just prior to Easter Break. School stuff scattered all over the crime scene, yet not one sign of any college books or tools anywhere in the CS photos I've seen. None in the bedroom, either. Look at the book on the night stand- NEVER CRY WOLF- it's for Jr High kids- so that would have been Sheila's class assignment, certainly not Sue's.

So Sue was getting the stipend from the Navy, covering rent, plus whatever CETA gave her in 81, plus food stamps and whatever else social relief was available in Mona Green's corrupt department, where a known rapist was allowed to thrive as a case manager. And she was a-ok with a known sheriff literally fucking kids for sport.

What was Dana getting? Given the summer job with Hagwood was 1980. But certainly the CETA program would have been hung around his neck as yet another condition of probation, right? He wouldn't have the knowledge, wherewithal, to go after that program- meant for adults, right? But doesn't the CETA program also indicate he'd dropped out of conventional school? The CETA stamp infers many stipulations we just cannot see. Yet.

For Dana to be CETA, in the Probation prog, and living at the Dorris home, there were certainly many duties and expectations assigned to him: GED was one of them. I've looked into CETA but can't find what I need: Sue's requirements and financial rewards, and same for Dana.

GloomasLake- I found documentation that the original microcassette of the Tina Skull phone call, as well as the backup dub, were checked out on 12/29/87 by Bill Elliott. It's a two-pager. On the first page, the most important it is the checked box stating "RELEASE ALL LISTED ITEMS OF PROPERTY IN THEIS (sic) CASE TO LAWFUL OWNER", beneath which was scrawled "Butte County Sheriff's". Signed by BCSO Bill Elliott. The next page lists the original cassette and copy, again signed by Bill Elliott. The "Released To" section is blank.

I immediately understood this HAD TO BE the phone call tape- the document is completely scant on facts, but that both the original and copy of a tape were checked out to Mr X during the confusion and carelessness of end-of-year partying, I immediately pegged that this was very important evidence and meant to disappear in the confusion. That Bill Elliott went along with it says a mouthful. No signatures of who he gave this tell-all to. Hmmm.

It was 2/16/16, when Gamberg and I were sharing our disgust over the documentation surrounding Tina's being found, that the tape again came up. We were trying to peg who was lying, which document was to be believed, concerning WHEN HER SKULL WAS FOUND. We already agreed the Bottle Collector, Ron Pedrini, had to be lying- I'd already shared that Tony Garedakis also claims it as an unlikely hobby (particularly for a drug dealer). But we were pissed that several documents stated she was discovered on April 12, 1984- the exact third anniversary of when the murders went from plan to action. Anyway, here's an extract of what I wrote to him:

    I first noticed the 'coincidental' date of Tina's 'discovery' back in 2012 or so. I wrote extensively about it on a few threads, such as here: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=875&p=11617&hilit=tina*#p11617

    "The next report is Tina's Coroner's Report, which gives us the date she was discovered as 4/12/84, exactly three years and four hours after the murders were discovered. A tad hinky. It's also gives her middle name as Louise, not Lynn."

    "piecing these reports together, Tina is found on 4/12/84, then someone calls and says the skull is Tina. We don't know when they called, unless that page is really the day of the phone call (6/3 or 6/5 at 859 am? An unusually precise time for a police report) The ORIGINAL and COPY tapes of that phone call are both checked out by LE on 12-29-87, and are MADE TO DISAPPEAR. Then, on 6/7 and 6/8, Crim's crack squad suddenly uncover a wealth of bones and other possible evidence in two sweeps of Camp Eighteen. 11 days later, the skull is finally identified as Tina Sharp. My guess is the phone call was around 6/5, which made Crim and team suddenly interested in searching Camp Eighteen 'properly'."

    I've spoken up on the anniversary date of Tina's discovery elsewhere, most recently just last October: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=1378&p=16396&hilit=tina*#p16396

That's the first Mike was aware of the tape. I'd sent him the tape paperwork along with all the other stolen shit Josh had sent me, but that document is incredibly difficult to read. Photocopy of a photocopy. His reply to me mentioned:

    You referred to an Anonymous phone call. The reports that I have do not reflect that let me know.

My partial reply:

    As for the Anonymous Call, check the files I sent. When Pedrini found Tina's skull, a BCSO deputy took it to Murad in the hopes he would ID it as a Native artifact, so it couldn't be deemed a new BCSO murder case. Murad told him otherwise, and a perfunctory search was made of C18 with nothing else found. In one of the typed timelines I returned, Crim himself noted the following:

    5-30-1984 6:45 pm: An anonymous male caller telephones the Butte County Sheriff's Department and says the skull found is from the missing 12 year old girl from the Keddie murders which occurred 2 years ago. (A copy of the audio is in evidence.) <Crim>

    So, not only is the date/time of the call known, but it's noted a COPY of the original is in evidence (It would be nice to know when the skull was last mentioned in local Butte / Plumas papers or regional TV reports prior to that call). However, look again at the photocopies I sent back. One is a property report from BCSO, and it's very faint, but it details the ORIGINAL CASSETTE and BACKUP COPY of that tape, dated "6-5-84" and signed by BCSO Bill Elliott (no relation to PCSO Bill Elliott, I pray). That document should be in the pile along with the reports of bones recovered, as all the evidence reports appear to have been completed and signed by Elliott simultaneously.

    Note that, once the 'anonymous' call came in, Crim almost immediately went in by chopper to Camp Eighteen to 'help' with the search. That kinda answers my old Q about how and when Crimely arrived in Plumas: April 12, via the DOJ chopper that took photos of Dee's car slinking the back way out of Keddie at around 11:55 am.

    Also note the (photocopied) BCSO document I returned, dated 12-29-87. When I received them, it was clipped together with the above-mentioned evidence reports, and I was told that all of that evidence had been checked out at the same time- as the 1987 document also implies. The last time the tapes are known to be in LE custody was around New Years 1988. There is no indication any of Tina's bones or other evidence in those reports disappeared, but the tapes do not seem to have been seen- or heard- since. I believe those tapes held a recognizable voice, and were made to disappear. Why else check out both the ORIGINAL and the COPY in a report that fails to mention who the evidence was released to?

Mike was on it that morning (Feb 23), and called BCSO for documentation:

    Great information!!

    The family tree got through clear. Already sent off requests for latents from the area you mentioned. Called Butte Co. re: the tape recordings XXXXX working on it.

Ten days later, he found the original microcassette at the bottom of an evidence box, sealed and signed by... WAIT FOR IT... Prince Albert 'Mike' Crim. The copy tape has not been located. The first I heard of the tape being found was in the Plumas News article on 3/17. Now that I look at the timing, I think it was this flurry of email exchanges and finding the tape that led to the articles, and a partial collapse of the Curtain of Silence.

I also think I should find a way to release much of the info going back and forth in these emails. I know what to redact, but I was on fire in many of these mails, tying up everything pretty nicely in compact bundles of info. I certainly need to reopen the thread concerning the documents and 'search' for Tina. If nothing else, all the data again tells me Crim was all over this the moment the word "Indian" was replaced by "Tina", and he was still fucking that arm of the investigation at New Years 1987-88.

MASSIVE TAKEAWAY- this caller waited until opening hours to make the call. 9 AM is bank and business time, NOT LE time. Butt this fuck called, INTENTIONALLY, at what he rationally saw as the beginning of a business day. He wanted to be FIRST rather than loudest. No, he wanted to be First AND Loudest. The timing of the call is as calculated as the Loonibi.
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Re: Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby dmac » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:18 am

Crim wrote:5-30-1984 6:45 pm: An anonymous male caller telephones the Butte County Sheriff's Department and says the skull found is from the missing 12 year old girl from the Keddie murders which occurred 2 years ago. (A copy of the audio is in evidence.) <Crim>


Two years ago? How can Crim fuck that up? That was intentional on his part. Reminiscent of Doug Thomas saying Sue was on the couch. Sociopaths all- the killers and kunt kops.
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Re: Hagwood statement/Working with Johnny & Dana

Postby dmac » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:28 am

Wait a minute. The original docs state the microcassette is the DUB! So, in other words, Mike found the COPY and the ORIGINAL r2r tape is still missing.

Imagine how much better the sound quaity is on the original reel-to-reel. Four times the tape width, recorded at a higher rate, and the microcassette dub will sound like garbled sheep dip by comparison. Find that tape and you'll have an exponential advantage in trying to identify the voice. If the FBI BSU or DOJ-SAC has an old Revox handy.

Good gawd damn. Look at the news articles where the show the photo of the microcassette and envelope next to the hammer or knife. That was a small manilla envelope, signed and sealed by Crim. I believe Mike knew with absolute certainty he'd found the tape before he opened that envelope. I would have loved to see the tears well up in his eyes as that cassette fell from the envelope into his hand. He's had so few EUREKA! moments in this ugly old case, but he's recovered the tape, the knife, the hammer, and irrefutable evidence that Crim and Bradley signed on with the sole intent of fucking this case. I was so happy Mike got to put an evidence card next to that hammer, a win he deserves, but he's already done so many other things he simply doesn't see as instrumental. If this case could reach Plumas News, Sac Bee, WaPo, cover of People, without his sweat, he's as blind as we are.

When I called out Stoy as a document-doctoring fraud in 2010, I had no idea Mike would find fraudulent documents filed by Crim and Bradley, invented solely to discredit Marty's confession in Reno. And their fraud is a gaping whore hole, their premise filled with lies so vapid it makes Bo seem a genius when he told them he was in the Air Force aged Minus Five. Born 1931, Air Force 1926- and he called himself USAF rather than ARMY AIR CORPS.

Look at my avatar. My hair is very short nowadays, but every time I look at this case, my head turns to lard. That's why I'm still Mr. Meltyhead. Every time I turn around, this case is shoving a new and ugly truth in my face. Ugly cock overload by a hedonistic male, this case is all about a stupid male tiny-cock swagger contest.
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