So why Camp 18?

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby dmac » Tue May 31, 2016 10:33 pm

Ausgirl wrote:dmac - it's not at all unheard of for killers to move bodies from one location to the next. Gary Ridgeway moved body parts to Oregon to throw off investigators, for one example.

Ward Weaver II, named as a suspect in this case by incredibly stupid, willfully ignorant, or the disastrously ill-informed, buried at least one victim in his back yard before digging her up and transplanting the corpse miles away.

I think most people willing to believe Tina was taken alive from the cabin simply don't comprehend the ridiculous, idiotic, contradictory, and disgusting levels of staging involved in the murders.
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby Sheepish » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:52 am

Speaking of the elaborate staging, do you have any current theories that suggest when corrupt members of LE became involved? For obvious rigor to set in the victims the killers would need to be at the scene for hours. Being there that long to stage the scene would increase the killers chance of getting caught or being seen, so they must have thought it vital. Why go through the extra risk if you believe your corrupt buddies are just going to botch the investigation? Do you believe members of LE were involved some way with the staging/decision to stage the scene, or after?
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby dmac » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:06 pm

Dana was killed first, and Sue last. Hours between? Likely. They had to get rid of Tina, and then returned to equalize and decompress the crime scene. They were fucking idiots.

I've never said LE were involved in the actual first crime- the murders.

LE is the second- and much larger- crime scene.
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby azucena » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:39 pm

So where did they take Tina in those in between hours, No way could they have gone to Camp 18 and back , even going down Hi way 70
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby azucena » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:42 pm

So was she transferred to someone else who took her away?
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby azucena » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:51 pm

I have major doubts that either Bo or Marde where present when Tina was taken to 18. But there are plenty of people I think could have done so
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby dmac » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:54 pm

Marty, Bo, Dee go to Reno for "car parts" or to take Bo to the closed VA hospital when the VA says he never stepped foot in that facility? No, they were going an equal distance in the opposite direction: Camp Eighteen.

I believe they took Tina's body from the cabin and dumped it outside of Keddie so they could pick it up the next day. They felt safer having her body on the other side of the highway in case cars coming and going from K were searched on Sunday. The fact nothing like that was set up is one of the points that red-flagged this case by current LE. I wish I could tell you what they said about how Keddie was NOT battened down.

This assertion could easily be one of my biggest mistaken beliefs in the history of the case, but when i first found the swinging bridge using Google Earth in 2006, the reaction on cabin28.com- including Loon's reaction- was memorable, Then, years later, I find Marty talking about it in his fraud 'interview' with Crimely? "No way they could take her out in a car! Too loud! They shoulda taken her out over the swinging bridge, but it's locked!" No, it wasn't. I'm 100% stuck to the idea "incapacitated" meant 'dead', and the bridge was used. Mike and others have talked about yapping dogs at the house by the bridge, but I went over it in April 2011 and the rush of water was louder than a scream. Yappin' mutts can't overwhelm that crushing static.

I'll be the first to admit my screwups, as I've already proved. I'll be very broken if it's proved Tina was taken alive, but nothing factual indicates such. Yet. Leave me with my fact-based hope that Tina went through nothing more.
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby dmac » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:59 am

racerkey, what the sweet worthless fuck are you talking about? As I've mentioned multiple times, I don't consider block-text ramblings to be anything but by the insane or oblivious. Which are you? I've only attempted to read one of your posts in the past, about your insipid belief Phil is the right insane assfuck to believe. You claimed his sandwich of bullshit as the most truthfull explanation of the murders ever made ,yet it touches nothing close to the core facts of the case. Nor do you mention your lack of knowledge he was in the Meeks home and probably learned all the primary targets of his lie from that source- where Loon was already probably in situ telling her stories. Go fuck yourself. Go fuck yourself. Go fuck yourself.

Philip is the insane buttfuck who used the deaths of Sue, Dana, Johnny, and Tina to bankroll a cheap, daily drunk. His story has almost as many holes than you're newly-torn ass. Go fuck yourself.

Murder truck?! Go fuck yourself. I mapped out every known mention of where and when Johnny and Dana were supposedly seen that day, and tore holes for the liars. I did that around 2011, and where were you? Go fuck yourself. You show up after the case is primarily solved to spout off dogball-sucking lies and witless theories? Triangle? Check when you last shaved your hole, pussyboy. Then go fuck yourself with your mother's dick.

Dear shit-eating Christ, you are a twat.

If you have ANYTHING to offer to the case, it's certainly not within your childish block-texts of inane theories disproved by any map or established facts. You don't even indicate a goddamned truthful clue where Kathy was found, or what led to her murder. I've read the reports and you are FULL OF HALF-CHEWED DOGSHIT. You're lying about your maps and about the bearing of bodies, much less many MORE bodies you ignore in the area that don't fit your imaginary demographics. Go fuck yourself.

You want to think you know, but we need truth rather than bullshit. So far, all you've promised is the former while delivering the latter. Go fuck yourself.

After struggling through one of your posts, I deem you a complete knobwashing, reamed donut from Marty's personal shitbag. My opinion may change if I can read your posts from first to last, but I already find you a liar and fuckwit, so my best guess is your recent lack of interaction can be treated as a "good riddance". Go fuck yourself.

If others can struggle to find nuggets of wisdom in his shitbrained block-form screeds. please enlighten me. I hated the bastard from Day 1 because of my distaste for blocks of illogical smoke-and-mirrors BULLSHIT. I didn't put up with the madness and hatred from Night, and I certainly won't put up with this brand of complete horse shit from a helmetless curb-nutting liar today.

I was wrong about NightRider, as he got a lot of good info and was about two wrong steps away from discovering Bo's real ID years before Aus and I did in one night of exhaustive, fun research. NR was also an asshole and nutjob who deserved to be told "Go fuck yourself", which I amply did.

I hope I'm wrong about this bullshit 'insider', but the attitude and lies mean only a small percentage of racerkey's factless 'facts' and theories can possibly be deemed worthy of vetting. Most of it is classic, moronic shit at first glance.

In short, Go fuck yourself.
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby dmac » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:45 am

Goddamn, I try to read racerkey's vagina monologues and get outraged by their stupidity and easily-disproved logic/theories/non-facts. This fucker is one step away from being banned. That step is my reading yet another post of the same rabid drivel from this drooling snatch of Marty's AIDS-filled spermatazoa.

I'll wait for other opinions, but maybe not. It would take a genius to explain away the indifference to facts, times, timelines, logic, displayed in this numbnut's ridiculous braggings.
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby azucena » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:24 am

looks like racerkey has seriously gotten under your skin. Don't know if all the f words were seriously necessary.... but it happens. The posts by racerkey were not always easy to read no paragraphs, rambling etal and a lot of info was sketchy at best, however, his local history of the area was interesting. The area around Camp 18 in the 80s was very isolated , and access not easy from the Plumas County side. Until proven otherwise, I maintain neither Bo or Marde would have known about Camp 18, but some someone neck deep did. I also question why they chose to go so far when there were other more easily accessible areas to hide a body, so someone chose Camp 18, maybe because of the fact it was so remote, far from the crime scene, or was significant in some way.

With all due respect, and you know I respect you, some posters here are trying very hard to explore the mind boggling amount of information and look at things with fresh eyes. Sometimes ideas have already been de bunked, but the poster is not aware, as there is so much information to read through . As well, you have info the majority of us don't, and so KNOW when something is untrue, when posters may not. It is totally understood that you cannot post a lot of what you know due to the ongoing investigation, but the majority of those contributing are posting out of a genuine intention to help but don't know some facts that you do.
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby dmac » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:07 pm

"Never proffer sympathy to the mentally ill: It is a bottomless pit."- William S. Burroughs

Most of my contact with the mentally ill comes through this case, and they usually do it via email.

I could just manage to get through a couple of racerkey's posts, including the one that begins, "dear dmac". All I saw was insanely stupid theories, with absolutely nothing 'new', much less factual. His laughable Triangle theory is deranged. His selective quoting of facts earmarks him as a late-entry in the race for bottom-of-the-barrel theories, and there have been many. One guy emailed me three times with chunks of his theory, which he'd sent to the FBI verbatim, outlining Chuck Walke's younger bro (16-17 at the time, iirc) and an ecology activist from Portola as the only people involved. The Triangle theory is right down there.

I know people come on here hoping to add to the conversation, or add theories or ideas that were shot down years ago. I also know there are many, many forum members (and past members, and outsiders) who want the case solved ONLY IF DMAC IS WRONG, which is just sick. I don't think racerkey fits in either category, but [his?] posts fit as the worst I've seen in some time. If someone can strain through his BS posts and glean something interesting from it, quote it here or let me know privately. Currently, my attitude is not shifting.

As for swearing, I've been a pretty good boy for MONTHS, but this guy got both barrels because he deserves it.
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby dmac » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:59 pm

Sorry, Azu. I just read your June posts. I believe Tina was dead, and all other testimony is adding up to make my 2011 claim true.


Marty didn't like all the staging; he wished to kill and leave. He and Bo were not best friends, just accomplices


The back bridge was mentioned. proving Marty a liar when he said he would take Tina over thay very bridge, 'but it's locked". Bull fucking shit.

Rabbit shit a pedestrian will find.

I've used sun and math to -prove when Marty/Bo/Dee left Keddie on Sunday.


Noon.
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby nekogirrl » Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:39 pm

i have been wondering...since camp 18 is so far from keddie....and hard to get to by all accounts...is there any evidence that tina was taken there the day after the murders? it would not be unusual for the killer(s) to hide or bury the body in one location, then come back weeks or months or even years later to dig it up and move it to a 'safer' site. maybe even more than once... they didn't find all her bones, which is not surprising, what with the normal animal & weather processes, etc..and i think i remember reading somewhere that there was evidence the bones had been buried at one time. is it possible that the reno trip WAS for car parts for the pinto, drive bo wherever his creepy self needed to go, buy drugs and also maybe pick up a previously hidden body and bury it somewhere until things calmed down? it's quite possible that since it can't be proved that bo and/or marty were that familiar with camp 18...maybe someone else who was familiar, was involved in the actual crime before, during or after, decided that for whatever reason, it would be better to move tina to a more isolated location. i could see tina being taken (hopefully dead at the time), across the bridge and stashed somewhere or even buried. then moved to another, "safer" location the next day, or even the weeks or months after the crime...then moved again, for whatever reason, to camp 18 where the bones were found...and that bottle collector just bothers me...(oh, and in my previous post, i never meant to imply that marty was impotent... i have never read or heard anything about that...just used that as an example as to why this could be a sex crime without the actual rape...)
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby dmac » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:32 pm

Figuring she died on site (c28) between 1:15-4:00 am, and Marty / Bo / Dee left Keddie at noon that day, she was probably dumped at Camp 18 around 3:00-3:30 pm Sunday. This correlates with the story of Marty showing up at the Meeks later that night. I could see them getting back to Q around 7-8 pm.

There is no evidence Tina was ever buried. I think there would have still been snow on the ground at C18, as there was when I visited in April of 2011. They weren't interested in hiding her, and in fact are probably responsible for the 'anonymous' phone call and her being 'found' by Pedrini. They sue as hell weren't going to dig in what would have been frozen ground.

The multiple stories of a trip to Reno are all hogwash. They'd just murdered four people, and they've already been awake for close to thirty hours- so are they going to stay awake hours longer to get car parts for a Pinto he had no intention of repairing? Or were they going to take Bo to the VA, which was functionally closed on Sundays and they also told us he was never a patient there? No. They stayed awake in order to take Tina to Camp Eighteen and dump her body as if it were trash. In that time of year, depending on roads, it would take 2-2.5 hours to get there via LaPorte Rd, and 2.5-3 hours via 70. And that's if you found the place on the first try.

Dee, Marty, Loon, Tony, and most of the other POIs, could easily have known the Camp Eighteen area. I don't know if they had that specific place in mind, but they certainly would have been familiar enough to know all those unmarked, winding dirt roads were back up in that rough terrain. They also seem to have known the location well enough to get Pedrini up there.

Do you seriously see any of those lazy fucks digging a hole?
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby azucena » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:12 pm

If, big if, as winters can be different, there WAS snow on the ground at 18, and depending how much, getting in there could have been dicey in a two wheel drive car, especially weighed down with several adults. As well as navigating the snowy access dirt roads. Perhaps they did not have 18 in mind specifically just an isolated area to put a body. If the ground was merely frozen it might not have been so difficult, although frozen mud can pretty hard in a weighed down vehicle. I would suspect La Porte Road very well could have taken more time than two plus hours.
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby dmac » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:21 pm

I drove to 18 in a tiny Nissan, it was so small the lack of legroom crippled me, and I had great pain and difficulty walking it off. Anyway, it was a tiny Nissan, and there was snow on the ground up in the mountains and on the roads.With those tall pines, there's not much chance of sun melting anything. I had absolutely no difficulty getting there- the biggest obstacle was fallen trees and downed limbs.

I suspect La Porte Rd wasn't nearly as tame in 81 as it is now, and google says it's currently about 2 hrs from 28 to 18, so you have to tack on time according to road conditions and the fact Google guesses don't often pan out.
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby nekogirrl » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:55 am

well, no..can't see any of them digging an actual hole...but wrap her in one of those big trash bags,(and sue had trash bags like that, because there was one they were filling with yard waste)...stick her in a gully somewhere and cave the sides in? hide her under a pile of brush, etc..yeah, i could see that...i just don't think if i had been awake around 30 hours, killing people, arranging and rearranging the crime scene, comparing notes and cooking up alibis with my dumb-as-rocks accomplices, etc...i would want to drive 2 hours away to dump a body, when there were probably loads of out of the way places around keddie itself...but maybe that is just me....since i don't understand killing a woman and 3 kids for any reason.... =-)
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby dmac » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:50 am

Thanks for your thoughts on the location of the box of trash bags I would have thought someone would put them on the top of the tiny bookcase in the alcove behind the front door, next to the pictures of Johnny and Dheila.

Why they were on the floor troubles me. Was all evidence in the 'trash can' at the Gen Store in a black plastic Glad bag?

Interesting. Thank you for opening my eyes.

These lazy bitches dumped Tina that very day. Full stop. We've got two cars leaving 28 in quick succession at noon on Sunday. Wade's car, then Dee's station wagon. The chopper was hovering and, unwittingly, capturing the killers trying to leave town. These lame assfucks tried to hide under a tree near the cutoff to the Flats, and stayed there several minutes as the chopper circled.

Sorry if my data and logic and math aren't good enough for you, but that's how this shit went down.

They didn't stay awake for two days for the Prime Rib in Reno. They had to get rid of Tina, because searches were underway and a chopper was circling the spot they'd placed her.

Realize the staging was offensively stupid, overzealous, and insanely contradictory. The killers forced the kids- definitely Justin and probably Rick- to inflict postmortem wounds.

Don't argue about how and when they dumped Tina. It was the nearly-final staging.

I must say, when Mama Meeks says she knew Marty did it and he was pacing around, saying, "there's something I've gotta finish", it makes much more sense now as true rather than false.

Bo was still in town, presumably at 26. Maybe Marty had to go back and clean up his own crime scene home, getting rid of the hammer. Who knows, but doesn't Mama's description remind you of someone wired and having days of zero sleep?
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby nekogirrl » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:49 pm

must say, when Mama Meeks says she knew Marty did it and he was pacing around, saying, "there's something I've gotta finish", it makes much more sense now as true rather than false.

Bo was still in town, presumably at 26. Maybe Marty had to go back and clean up his own crime scene home, getting rid of the hammer. Who knows, but doesn't Mama's description remind you of someone wired and having days of zero sleep?


now that you say that, it does make sense, if they thought the chopper might find the body or something along those lines...and i keep forgetting that these are not the brightest crayons in the box...i actually wondered if they had used a trash bag for tina and/or any evidence they took out of 28, back when you first mentioned that the box held trash bags and not sandwich baggies (which is what the description by LE brought to mind), but forgot to ask if you thought that might be a possibility. it would certainly take care of any blood, etc from her body. makes me wonder, remembering all the debris they found with her bones...some of it might not be connected, but some of it, like the tape dispenser, could have just been shoved in the bag and ended up at camp 18...you certainly keep me thinking, dmac.... :;^^:
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Re: So why Camp 18?

Postby dmac » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:54 pm

I'll state this very clearly. Your post made me rethink the baggies and how LE perceived them.

In the end, I'm the sack of shit for claiming those baggies were useless. True, Stoy made them seem to be drug related in his comments, Let's ignore Stoy and stab me instead.

Mike and I looked at the photos of where the bags were found and I was immediately over-the-top furious: "Those bags were there because they were cleaning the f-ing yard on Saturday! Those are NOT pot baggies!"

OK, so le thought ahead or already knew evidence had been bagged and moved.

I'm an absolute twat, and thank you for waking me up to that standard fact.

That you made me rethink the baggies makes me rethink many other things, and I cannot properly convey my appreciation for bringing up one untidy fact. Fucking brilliant.

Goddamn, this is a very cool forum. I'm so glad I'm involved, and that you nailed me so quickly and convincingly
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