Sue's Pink Suit

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

Sue's Pink Suit

Postby Eastern » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:35 pm

Ausgirl wrote: What comes to mind now is Tina's pink suit (id'd by Don Davis & wife), and the pink strip of cloth that was probably used as a binding cord and found with Tina's body. The pink strip of cloth probably matched the pink suit in colour, or why'd they have Don ID it.. so it was probably a belt for the suit. The knot in that belt was the same as the knot used on the bra in Sue's gag.. the only two examples of that specific knot being used anywhere in the apparent crime scene, though it's a "common knot" -- and so, say LE, it can't be said for sure they were tied by the same person. But what if it was tied for the same purpose? The pink belt was "tied in a loop". Was it also a gag? Is that why it shares a knot with the bra used on Sue, and nothing else?

Aus, I wanted to break this away from the other thread to concentrate on it a bit. I'm confused about it. Where did LE find the pink suit and did they ask Don and his wife to ID it soon after the murders?

What kind of suit was it? A pants suit, skirt and top, just pants with a belt? Was it a regular belt with a buckle or a tie belt?

To clarify - did LE go back to Don again after they found Tina and the pink strip of cloth, and ask him if the pink strip matched the suit?

Where was the pink belt found in relation to Tina's remains?

What was the knot used? Was the knot in the middle of the belt or closer to one end of it?

Any idea why they asked Don to ID it, instead of Sheila or Rick?
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Re: Tina's pink suit

Postby Ausgirl » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:44 pm

E, this is what I posted under that:

I wanna know about that pink suit - because if the cops were asking about it at time of murders, it's probably relevant. Was there blood on it What? And then a pink belt-like piece of cloth is found knotted near Tina's remains. Anyone who had one of those suits as a kid will know - there was always a belt. And a pink, belt-like cloth happened to be knotted in a loop, and found near the remains of an abducted child who owned a pink suit which the police had found relevant in some way. So yeah, we might have evidence of more washing-pile binding material right there. And/or blood evidence on the suit, or something.



Good questions.

What kind of suit was it? A pants suit, skirt and top, just pants with a belt? Was it a regular belt with a buckle or a tie belt?


It was, from memory, a pants suit. The description wasn't really detailed.

To clarify - did LE go back to Don again after they found Tina and the pink strip of cloth, and ask him if the pink strip matched the suit?


Dunno. They asked about the suit at the time of the murders. Not sure if they re-checked. But there's no mention of running a comparison on the evidence list, where they do make a note to compare the knots. Maybe it didn't occur to them? Maybe it's in another report, who knows.

Where was the pink belt found in relation to Tina's remains?


It's not said - only "near remains".

What was the knot used? Was the knot in the middle of the belt or closer to one end of it?


It was a "common knot" (some kind of hitch? from memory? need to check that..) and the same "common knot" used to tie the bra used on Sue as a gag, which was used nowhere else at the crime scene.

Any idea why they asked Don to ID it, instead of Sheila or Rick?


None. But it made me think -- maybe it had blood on it? Something they didn't want the kids to see?
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Re: Tina's pink suit

Postby Eastern » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:08 pm

Thanks, Aus. It does make you wonder why it was significant. Whether there was blood on it or not, something made it significant. Maybe that's some of the hold back info that only a perp would know.
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Re: Tina's pink suit

Postby dmac » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:36 am

There's nothing to indicate why they thought the pink pantsuit may be Tina's, but the wording implies they were trying to confirm or dismiss it as relevant. For all we know, they found the pantsuit in the playhouse, under Marty's or Sue's house, down in the river with stones in the pockets, or out in the woods during their superficial "search for Tina".

Then there's this:
6. We obtained a new photo of Tina wearing a pink top and white pants. The photo was in Feb. 81. Need to send it to Sheila in OR to see if the clothes are in her belongings.

In July of 81 they had a Feb 81 photo of Tina wearing clothes they'd never seen- three full months after they were asking Don & his wife about the pink pantsuit- Cops were still trying to account for all of Tina's clothing, so they could better conclude what she was wearing (and if she was even dressed) when she disappeared?

Also, they either must have asked Sheila if the pink pantsuit was in Tina's belongings- or they had in their possesion a pink pantsuit that they didn't tell Sheila about, yet they were, in July, still unconvinced the pantsuit had any bearing on the case.

Any other options?
--------
Through the recent release of documents, I now know the relevance of "the pink pantsuit". It was not found at the crime scene, it was not found at Camp 18 (obviously, as they were asking everyone and their dog about it in the days after the murder). One report sumps it up: In describing Alysa Seabolt's knowledge/involvement of the crimes, it states "discovered pink clothing in river". In the same report, partially summing up Don Davis' and his wife, Nancy, and their daughter, Michelle, it says, in part, for all three of them: "ID of pink pantsuit".

Just guessing, but Alysa found the pink pantsuit in or by the river (probably shortly after the murders, probably down by the Spanish Creek waterhole by the back bridge). All three of the Davises IDd it- it doesn't say to who, but the realistic conclusion is to being Tina's. I've seen elsewhere that Sheila was asked but made no ID. I've also seen contradictory reports to this, so now that we understand the inference and importance of the "pink pantsuit", we should use this thread to draw all references and statements from case files to compare them for exact wording, sources involved, and veracity.

If the pantsuit really was Tina's, it may have more to do with the waterhole than the crime, but we don't know what condition they were in. It was April, so I doubt like hell anybody was jumping into the freezing- and fast- waters of Spanish Creek just yet. Later in the summer, the runoff slows and the water warms up considerably.
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Re: Tina's pink suit

Postby TREELAND » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:15 pm

Could the pink suit been bed clothes? I remember having one piece pajamas with belts in my youth and the belts on these type of pajamas were held on to the waist area by cloth loops and then you would tie the belt in front in a bow. One of the boys in the house said when she came home from next store she was wearing jeans and a t-shirt then went to bed, most likely she put something on to sleep in. Sheila wasn't able to identify it but might have been bought for Tina when Sheila was away in Oregon and it had been tucked away in a drawer and not noticed previously by Sheila.
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Re: Tina's pink suit

Postby goatmeal2013 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:05 pm

Were any of the clothes ever recovered that Tina was last seen wearing? At camp 18 or elsewhere? She was described as having been last seen wearing a red nylon coat w/zipper (im assuming that is a "windbreaker" type jacket), blue jeans with a rainbow patch on the back pocket and a blue top. I was once told a long time ago by someone who followed the case closely at the time that the only article of clothing found with her remains were her little cotton heart & flower patterned undies.
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Re: Tina's pink suit

Postby dmac » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:05 am

LE are unsure of what Tina last wore when she came home, according to reports, and same documents show LE repeatedly asked about what was missing from the cabin and what belonged to whom, obviously including clothing. They also asked many people what Tina wore that day, and what she wore when she got home from the Seabolts to go to bed. We don't have reports on why they supposedly assert she was last seen wearing certain clothing, like the windbreaker or Rainbow jeans (which documents also show they found Rainbow jeans in the hallway) or the GASS shoes. There are no indications LE actually determined any of her belongings (including clothes) missing. DT asserts in Pt 1 that she was fond of this "box", but he corrects himself when he blurts out a pile of old bull about Tina's 'pet shoebox/diorama/Johnny's wooden toolbox'.

As for the "Pink Outfit", LE docs assert a Seabolt child found it down at the Swimming Hole (just upstream [south] of the swinging bridge). LE documents say many people were asked, and Sue's brother's family identified the Pink ???. There is no information about how each were asked or what they said, and the overall document is rampant with dumbass LE failures.

LE later tested items, supposedly from the Keddie crime scene vs items supposedly found in the multiple searches of Camp 18 (near where her skull was found). The main purpose for comparison was the apparently unusual knots used in some of the bindings found at Cabin 28 vs Camp 18.

All of the reports surrounding Tina's discovery are masked in confusion and bull, including multiple errors in the date her skull was found, what else was found, when any of it was found, how it was processed, and the results. And the handing over of evidence, like when Butte County checked out the original taped phone call, when an anonymous voice assured LE the skull was Tina (before it was IDd as Tina). Another Pig agency not only checked out the original, but the backup copy. Both checked out on New Year's Eve of 1984, never to be seen again.

A NEW YEAR of HOPE for survivors? Nope, just another year of the SAME OLD CORRUPT CRAP BY PIGS.

I line up most of it to LE asserting Tina was alive and walked out of the cabin of her own volition that night. Also, in another post, you asked about French, who was 54 when he molested Tina and a neighbor child in 1980 (when LE lost the interview tape with the target child, younger than Tina, just like the tape of Rick's interview with DOJ just magically turns off right after he says his name as an introduction). If he was a 54 y/o child molester living in a hole trailer in 1980, he'd be pushing 89 now. He was pushing the boundaries of life expectancy back in 80, based on his lifestyle.
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Re: Tina's pink suit

Postby IPO » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:44 pm

Tina seemed to be the forgotten child in the family. She seemed to live in a shadow where only one teacher and perverts seemed to pay much attention to her. To me she didn't seem to have the opportunities afforded to other children. She was a victim both in life and death. How sad.
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Re: Sue's pink suit

Postby dmac » Wed May 25, 2016 4:13 pm

The Rainbow jeans were found in the doorway between the BR hallway and the white table where the knife and hammer were staged.

As for the Pink Suit, it wasn't Tina's!

In the back of the evidence photos book were two lonely images of poor quality and in black and white. I immediately recognized what it had to be, and mike got out the glass, discerned the evidence number on the card, and looked it up on his chart: It's the "PINK SUIT" discovered by the Seabolt girls in the Swimming Pool area of the river, upstream from the swinging bridge, near the trestles. It's a one-piece unit of silky material in pink, a pantsuit that has a backless top held together by straps.

Discovered in June I believe, it was in pretty poor shape- particularly at the top. Apparently, all the Davises IDd it as coming from 28 so, gauging from it's design, my guess is it was Sue's. So, why the hell was it in the middle of the water? Does it have anything to do with the murders? Is it a trophy, or the direct opposite- it held a special meaning to one of the killers, so it had to be destroyed?
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dmac » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:20 am

THIS POST IS ACTUALLY A MASSIVE ELABORATION OF A SHORT POST I SENT TO MEANKITTY. I SENT A SHORT EMAIL TO HER, THEN TRIED TO EMAIL HER AGAIN TO SAY I WOULD POST A SPRINGBOARDED VERSION. UNFORTUNATELY, GMAIL ISN'T WORKING FOR ME SO I CANNOT CONTACT HER. I DON'T FEEL THERE'S ANYTHING PERSONAL, OR THAT IT'S AN AFFRONT TO THE BAFFLING RELATIONSHIP I HAVE WITH MK, TO RE-WRITE AND EXPAND AND EXPOUND UPON THE POINTS OF MY SHORT EMAIL TO HER.

THE FOLLOWING INCLUDES SOME OF WHAT i WROTE TO HER, WITH MY MASSIVE EXPANSION. eNJOY (and sorry for over-explaining)

►►►►►►►

There's been talk over the years that one of the disco suits, or maybe even what Loon wore that night, was pink. (why has nobody, including me, asked what Loon wore?!)

I'd ignore pink as a suit color for MMB that night and concentrate on the real meaning of the adult female's pink pant-dress found months later in the sediment of "the swimming pool". Who IDd it? That, logically, ties it to Sue. Who found it? Seabolts.

Ask what "pink suit" means to the Seabolts' find, and ask wtf Meeks and Loon were really referring to when they talk 'pink' anything.

I don't give much of a shit about the suits Loon and the killers wore, until something turns up that adds up. It's a dead angle to me.

Actually, the stories BEHIND the suits are NOT dead to me.

Supposedly Bo had boxes of clothes, and Marty suddenly started wearing Bo's clothes and copycatting him by wearing sunglasses 24/7? What happened to those supposed boxes of clothes? Small problem: Bo and Marty were different heights sizes, body styles. Marty may be able to wear Doug's leather jacket, but certainly not Bo's 3-piecers. What about SHOES?!

Loon's the only one I know of to originate the "boxes of" ANYTHING stories. Loon's story completely breaks down, as per usual for the murderous cunt. This post updates all that stuff, but it ties less together than it makes fall apart- or cause new arguments. Keep an eye out, especially for anything in pink.

Bo pulled three-piece suits out of boxes and they didn't dry-wash them to get rid of the wrinkles? Or melt the polyester by forgetting to iron them all, on ultra-low settings, between a damp cloth and the iron? Since when do MMB seem like the types to have an iron, an ironing board, and the knowledge as to how to properly care for boxed-up, wrinkled, polyester 3-piecers? I remember the suits, and had a couple of those thin, poly-based, wrinkle-free shirts myself- I wish they'd make more with the material, because it kept me cool- I was still a dateless twat, but that material didn't build up heat.

Wrinkle-resistant? YES. Wrinkle-free, 3-piecers in boxes? BULL SHIT!

As usual, Loon's Tall Tales fall apart.

Who took the BOXES of clothes and belongings to the bus stop for Bo? Even in 1981, 'boxes' meant freight charges by Greyhound or Trailways. Who paid the fees? DT?

Loon's story of "boxes of clothes" never added up, but I never brought it up on the forum, just to see if anyone else would pick it apart. NO TAKERS other than, unfortunately, moi, and years too late to be effective.

So where did these boxes go? To Klamath, and then all across America as Bo and Marty toured with the circus?

I'm NOT saying there's no truth in the suits and boxes, but it's so illogical. One of my quotes is "just as soon as you believe it's an impossible angle, it just gets truer and deeper"

Think more simply: Marty and Bo met at the VA and Bo came home with BOXES OF CLOTHES? Yeah, the VA has storage units, with a price scale based on how indigent and suicidal you are? Does fake epilepsy and DTs and PTSD lower the monthly storage fees?

I've got a good angle on why and how they met, so long as the VA Hospital's claims that Bo was never there are true. We already know that Bo, Marty, and Dee lied about how Bo & Marty met, and Marilyn has made some real new WHOPPERS in recent months that entirely conflict with fact.

Many of Bo's records have been wiped, particularly his criminal records. What doesn't change is he rarely shat in his own backyard. He would use the VA to hide out, but he'd never use one near where he was operating. And Bo was already in Reno when he and Marty met up in mid-March. The boxes MAY be true if you accept Bo was operating in Reno, but already knew Marty or Dee or someone BEFORE. Before.



BACK TO PINK

Who hid it? How did it hit the water? The pink suit was downstream and found at the bottom of the 'pool' part of the stream two months later. WTF does it mean, since the killers spread evidence around so abundantly? It's a very sexually revealing piece of evening wear, very disco in style. YES, so much was 'disco-style'.

Look at the timing for logic: When it was found, where it was found, who found it, who was asked, who denied recognition, who accepted recognition. I doubt any of those basics were commonly used by PCSO, and that's not a conspiracy. Lack of training? Shit, yes.

Told to do an impossible task for which the commander knew they had no training, while others available did? Coverup.
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dmac » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:54 am

Screw the boxes. Bo and Marty may have already set up to meet, and may have directly known each other, long before April 81.

I doubt I've ever admitted such on the forum, because it's an angle I can support with tremendous circumstantial evidence but without direct confirmation. Well, yeah, I have the confirmation, but it's not yet vetted.

I am NOT putting too much weight in this, other than I've screamed for YONKS that Marty and Bo never "met" at the VA. The VA story is bullshit and part of the Loonibi, in which Dee and Mike and Martel and Tony were at least complicit.

One of the most obvious lies in the Loonibi is how Marty and Bo "met", and it's a linchpin in the base lack of credibility of the entire group alibi. I've known it's a broken link for years, how 'bout you?+

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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby Princess » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:26 pm

Your right on point. BO and Marty knew each other way before the Reno VA BS story.

I think in one of the several chats I had with Loon she kept with that BS story of Bo and Marty meeting at the VA. Loon even goes so far as to state that she remembers seeing Bo up there when she went to see Marty. Of course I was explaining to her how that was impossible...lol. Then she talks about how Marty possibly could of known Bo prior. I am not sure if I posted all of the chats that I have had with Loon but the more she talks the more she tells.
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dntblvu » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:15 pm

Maybe sue did go out that night wearing the pantsuit? The girl who claimed she dropped the boys off and saw sue dressed to go out, ??? No. I don't see her leaving the youngest kids, and there were too many kids, and Johnny and Dana weren't home yet. Did they make sue put it on at some point before she was killed?
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dmac » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:00 pm

I do believe Marty went to the VA to scam them for bullshit PTSD benefits. I also believe Bo already knew Marty through family and carnies, and the Reno meet-up was pre-arranged and the VA was a very stupid cover story.

They, as VA fodder, could tell any lie and LE had no right to their med records.That was the joke.

Listening to Bo's 'interview', rather than reading it, further exposes gaps in their assholy story.

This answers and simplifies the case tremendously: Bo and Marty really met up to do scams while Marty was trying to steal from the VA. They really were trying to pull scams and sell fake ads. That totally lines up. Except not in Plumas!

Remember, I've always said half their lies are truths and, if you screen them, you can see a clearer signal.

If Bo only showed up to do bullshit scams in small-fry Q,it means he and Marty had already planned to split for bigger punks.

Maybe Marty thought Loon and the kids would go on the road? Remember, he was hitching from Phoenix to the NW coast when his first wife broke water in Oregon. That's where she stayed, but not Dad.

"I paid with four lives"means his kids? Fucking grow up! Marty had FIVE KIDS you apes!
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dmac » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:34 pm

When I get a chance, I'll be doing a mockup of the pink pantsuit and posting it on the forum- I just don't have a lot o time for Photoshop right now. It was a pink, silky one-piece: pants with a halter front, and a V-bac down to the ass. Very slinky, very 70s.

It's IDd in documents by all who lived in Don's trailer, so that indicates to me it was Sue's. If that's the case, then this garment held huge importance to whoever was behind Sue's murder. It confirms premed, that she was the target, that her killer was FIXATED on her, and that particular garment held great significance. It was like a trophy, but one he was inspired to destroy rather than keep. It also puts the killer(s) down by the river, down by the bridge.
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby foxidoxi » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:33 pm

DMAC
Not sure if this will matters. What your describing about the pant suit, sounds like it would be something purchased from the catalog/store like Fredricks of Hollywood.. Sort of pricey for the times.. So I went to a popular web site that shows vintage clothing { 70 style clothes }. Found several of the style pant suit your describing . Its out there you will find it. Thanks
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby sparkplug » Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:34 pm

Could have been Loon's bloody pink suit.
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby azucena » Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:46 pm

Is is possible the Pink Suit was Sue's but Tina was dressed in it, due to where it was located? There is also the sweatshirt found by Ron Varker, also allegedly found in the river and turned over to to LE?
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby billyc1048 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:51 pm

dmac wrote:
When Justin was saying, 'look for her down by the river', he meant it- but didn't mean she was alive. He knows that's where she was taken, and that's the last he saw of her.



You think that Justin was down at the river on the night of the murders? Is there evidence of this besides him saying to look down by the river? I had always assumed that Justin heard B & M talking disposing of Tina down passed the river while they were still in the cabin.
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dmac » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:30 pm

Foxi- Can you provide some links? Maybe look through your browser history? If I can find an image of an item that resembles the garment I saw in the photos, it's win-win-win for all of us!

Spark- 'Loon's bloody pink suit'? You mean what she wore to the bar that night? I've been talking to others about this and have not yet found anything definitively describing what Loon wore to the bar. Then again, find anyone but MMB confirming wat ANY OF THEM WORE! Also, how would all of Don's family, including the teen, know Loon had a pink pantsuit?

Unfortunately, we also have no info on the nature of any relationship between Don's fam and these cowards.

Azucena- I highly doubt Tina was dressed by the killers. Logic and circumstances dictatesshe died in whatever she wore to bed- which I doubt was Sue's dressy pant-suit.

I also proffer the pantsuit would have been disposed on the return trip over the swinging bridge (hiding Tina's corpse takes precedence over getting rid of a garment- maybe the killers even used the opportunity of wading through the pool to wash up, but that garment ALMOST must have been weighted down to be left/found there).

There also is the distinct possibility Tina was wrapped in it. However, if they were trying to conceal her, they would have chosen something more logical. As for the sweater/hoodie, it was found about a quarter mile upstream- midway between the pantsuit and hammer.

Billy- I don't think Justin was down by the river, but knows Tina was taken in that direction. I believe his 'parents' forced him to participate, and he saw/heard one helluva lot more than he's let on- there's plenty of evidence supporting this. And I can't blame him for lying to the same pigs protecting his parents, but he needs to come clean.

Please keep in mind, we have direct testimonials that the boys initially told the truth and, only AFTER LE repeatedly and illegally contacted children did the kids change their stories.
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