Seabolts

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Re: Seabolts

Postby bkl67 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:26 pm

Dmac, per your suggestion I went back and read timeline Z again, I guess you wanted me to notice on that the Seabolts say it was approx 10 when Tina went home and the conflicting information the police got, which I was already aware of, that was my point. I've also seen Mrs. Seabolt put the time at approx. 9:30. Neither statement can stand on it's own, no conflicting statements can, they have to be compared to others. Also I looked at the TV listings as you advised, again that doesn't sway me from an earlier time frame when Marilyn, Marty and Bo went to the bar, if anything I can see how it can me argued it helps support it. News at 11, big surprise everybody knows that, after the news a number of channels showed Westerns. Marilyn said it was a war movie that came on after the news, can't any one think a western is a war movie especially if they aren't really watching it, like getting ready for bed, being in a different room? Not saying this is the way or when it happened but it still looks like it's within the reasonable realm of possibilities and I think to find the truth we have to keep our minds open and look at all reasonable possibilities.
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Re: Seabolts

Postby dmac » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:39 pm

Timelines A, B, and Z have the Seabolts putting Tina leaving 27 at all different times. I think Mr Seabolt wins for having about six versions of when she left. None of it matters, other than to illustrate how little to trust LE's work, reports, and timelines. The point of Z is to put all known reports and direct quotes in one timeline, nothing out of context. A & B are definitely bullshit when you read the reports they screw and misquote. Z shows many conflicts, but still helps indicate who is lying and what is the basic truth.

The fact Marilyn routinely lied about when "they" went to the bar, the fact everything she said about coming home and falling asleep watching the news, and later about falling asleep to a late John Wayne war movie, is lie upon lie--- that bolsters your opinion she's telling the truth about being at the bar earlier than possible?
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Re: Seabolts

Postby lynabus » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am

James Seabolt Sr. is on top of my radar and has been for quite awhile. Hallucinating or not! I will state the obvious. James Seabolt Sr. was one of the last to see Tina alive at his Cabin 27. Numerous people have placed her there watching tv...Barbara Mandrell show. Zonita Seabolt stated that Mr. Seabolt couldn't sleep that night. What was he doing? Dogs were barking per Zonita Seabolt. Yet, not one single person in that cabin heard a thing. Interesting. What was Mr. Seabolt driving to go wood cutting on a Sunday morning? Mormon, but misses church or would have missed church if this hadn't been discovered early Sunday morning. James Seabolt Sr. didn't return to Keddie until Noon on Sunday per timeline. Who really took Tina out of Keddie? Open minds. I just think we need to keep everything in this case open for discussion. I would never say I am right and everyone else is wrong ever. I just think this individual needs scrutiny.
Handyman...finds numbers on window sill. ..red herring. Could have been there for years. Just another aversion.
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Re: Seabolts

Postby IPO » Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:05 pm

I disagree about Mr. Seaboldt. His wife Zonita was a strict Mormon, and she knew more of what was happening in the Sharp household than most people. She would not allow her children to sleep over at Sue's home. I believe that the children were safe with with her. While she supported her husband, I do not believe she would have ever put up with any sexual molestation. Any claims about Mr. Seaboldt being a predator have not been proven to my knowledge. I only wish Mrs.Seaboldt had been interviewed properly as she held a lot of information. It is also a real travesty that Tina was one of the children killed. That doesn't mean that I am not sad that any of these individuals lost their lives in such a horrible manner, Tina would not have been kept quiet. If she had been allowed to spend that night at the Seaboldts' Her innocence along with her naievity and trusting nature would have provided this forum with a lot of information that was happening within her family. Many people do not sleep well at night, and yet arise early and go to Church or do other things. IMHO Mr, Seaboldts' hands are clean where this crime is concerned. This crime was committed by more than a couple of individuals, and even corrupt LE enabled this crime and has kept it unsolvable for over 30 years. Tina was also open and told her mother and police about sexual molestation that happened to her by a man in the trailer park.
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Re: Seabolts

Postby dmac » Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:09 pm

You should be upset with PCSO/LE's accounts and disastrously unprofessional (or even faked) reports more than anyone in the Seabolt cabin. What pony does anyone in 27 have in this case, other than the kids being friends? What makes James (Sr.) or, for that matter, Jamie (Jr.), suspicious to you?

James Sr.: Not much known about him other than he was the longstanding handyman in Keddie, and did many other side jobs, including collecting, chopping, selling, delivering firewood. How much of a Mormon was he at the time? Zonita seemed diehard, but we're not even sure of that. Ever heard of a Jack Mormon? Or was he letting the financial security of his huge family outweigh his dedication to the insanely tight rules of a very bizarre cult?

Perhaps, since he couldn't sleep, he decided to get up and go out to get more wood before church, as you implied? That seems to be exactly what happened. I did note in some of the aerial photos, the Seabolts were visible, collected on and around the northernmost portion of the front porch. The largest person is a male- certainly Sr.- and he's dressed in Sunday Mormon garb: black pants, short-sleeved white shirt, black tie. It's a uniform, or at least was back then- all the missionaries wore that drab gear.

14-Seabolts.jpg

14a-Seabolts.jpg

As for rumors of him being a potential perp due to his proclivity for kids and their underwear, you should note the main source for this salacious and accusatory rumor is Martell, Frank Davis' GF and future wife. She was also half of the team that invented the debunked Avery Schreiber reverse-alibi meant to protect the pal they had in common with the killers and POIs: Tony 'The Greek' Garedakis. Not only did she lie to protect Tony, she further misdirected by giving great detail in a story meant to falsely accuse Sr. She gave more details on that rumour than either of them did 'recalling' the Avery Schreiber 'incidents'. Isn't that pretty damning- against Frank and Martell and other true POIs than it is against any Seabolt?

Jamie: 15 years old, pulled the kids from the window, or went into the cabin and lifted them out the window. At any rate, he admitted to entering the cabin through the back door, and looking around the entire cabin for victims. To our knowledge, he only admitted this once- to PCSO Shaver on Sunday morning. Since then, he's denied ever entering the cabin. Maybe he's only denied it publicly, as he's not been known to discuss the murders whatsoever publicly. If he's lying to protect himself, it's probably related to the fact only six people could have moved and covered Sue prior to LE arriving. In order of likelihood: Justin, Jamie, Don, Rick, Sheila, Greg. Last to see Tina alive? Wouldn't that have been Alyssa and/or Sr.
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Re: Seabolts

Postby dntblvu » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:14 pm

Proud of you dmac for not being nasty! ;-)
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Re: Seabolts

Postby lynabus » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:07 pm

I am not certain that is James Sr. In that photo as the individuals back is to me. James Sr. was not in Keddie. Didn't return until Noon. For all I know, those could be detectives on scene. Yet, I can see the possibility that this photo was taken afternoon of....like I stated, I am not saying I am right. I am just looking at this with open eyes. I appreciate all the feedback and the posting of info that I have overlooked or forgot about.
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Re: Seabolts

Postby dmac » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:27 pm

There were two males in that photo, and only two males in the Seabolt family.

The one circled in red is larger and fatter than the one circled in yellow. Ergo, the one in red is JAMES SEABOLT SR and NOBODY ELSE.

THE PHOTO WAS TAKEN SHORTLY AFTER NOON.

Shaver only said he CONTACTED James Sr. at "APPROXIMATELY noon" and only mentioned that he had returned with a load of wood. That does NOT mean Sr returned at noon with a load of wood; it solely means Shaver confirmed he was out getting wood, and he eventually contacted Sr around noon.

Why are you having such difficulty keeping an open mind? LOL! Seriously, I recently joked in a post about having PTSD. It was bullshit. I just get really damned tired of so many people not accepting that I've taken a lot of angles into consideration in my deductions, conclusions, assertions, and posts, and that I just may know wtf I'm talking about, and that the only thing I've painted into the corner of the room is FACT.

Look at when Shaver talked to Sheila, Jamie, Zonita, Rick, Greg, etc. The times varied by HOURS, but that does NOT mean that's when they arrived in his vicinity. It just means that's when he 'made contact' with them. And I'd be very willing to assume it was NOT the first time he'd made contact with any of them.

Bottom line: two adult or near-adult males of vastly different sizes are seen near noon by the front porch of 27, dressed in matching Mormon suits. Think on this: Sr. was hot, sweaty, dirty when he got home from sawing/chopping and loading firewood. Logically, he showered, shat, shaved, and shampooed, then dressed in his cult costume. By appearances, with the tragedy next door and so much to pray on, they fully intended to go to a later church service, as services are typically scheduled throughout the day- particularly when all of Plumas had so few wards/meetinghouses. The entire Quincy region had only one meetinghouse in 81, so the ward must have covered a considerable area and served a buttload of members.

Think on that, rather than thinking I haven't already covered those bases. And also sometimes consider the minutiae of my posts to not be worth arguing. TWO LARGE MALES IN THE YARD DRESSED ALIKE, so who gives a shit which one is Sr? It's the larger one!- the one I indicated. If you want to argue something, please make sure there's meat on that gnawed-up bone. Most of the discourse today may have answered your arguments, but it's been an insult and aggravation to me. All I've done is explain the supporting facts that are already on this site and forum. Hard to find, but they're here.

I've got a post on 'How to Search the Forum', and I've meant to update it to show how better to search using the 'advanced search' function, where you not only use keywords but narrow it down to author, when the post may have been made, which forums/threads it may have been on, etc. It's so much easier to get the right results.
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Re: Seabolts

Postby lynabus » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:57 pm

I agree! Thanks for clearing it up for me. Coming into this forum from my perspective is really overwhelming at times. I am fully aware of all the hard work you, Dmac and others have done thus far. Please know that it doesn't go unnoticed. I am fully aware of how to search this forum...been doing it for months and you know this to be fact.
I appreciate you talking and replying with the respect you have given me.
In my attempt of the greater scheme of things, I was hoping to get more members to engage.
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Re: Seabolts

Postby dmac » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:45 pm

I'm disappointed the recent developments didn't get more people involved and looking in the RIGHT directions, but I'm fully aware it raised the ire of so many people across the internet who cannot stand the fact they were 100% wrong while I and others have been following the right path.

That's not ego, just disappointment and anger that so many people are tossers. They claim to care for the victims, for the truth, yet do everything in their power to ignore and dispute fact.
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Re: Seabolts

Postby IPO » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:31 pm

Lynabus, I read that you were hoping for more engagement and discussion on posts. Having read through this forum, and the information contained and discussed many times, I am not sure what I can contribute. I think Dmac, in particular, and others have done an incredible job of bringing so much evidence, reason, sound-thinking, and investigative skills to this forum.

Right now I am waiting to see what evidence comes to light through Dmac's involvement with LE.

I live in another country and am not familiar with the people nor the area. My interest was piqued as I came across these baffling unsolved murders. I worked in CID Homicide and Sex Crimes. I was flabbergasted at the inadequacies of LE: timelines not lining up, interviews that were poorly conducted, information that was not followed up. It was not anything like the detectives I worked for who actually solved murders and very quickly. The interview process of witnesses and suspects were conducted over and over and over again. Inconsistencies were quickly realized. Background checks were made. Evidence was gathered, logged and not lost.

So I read (and quickly learned who's posts to read and those to take with a grain of salt). I believe that if anyone can finally bring justice to this case, it will be through Dmac's relentless strategical analysis of what transpired on that horrible night.

Please continue to read and ask questions. It is through raising questions that cases are solved.
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Re: Seabolts

Postby lynabus » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:05 pm

Thank you! I will continue to read and ask questions when I think of things...I agree with everything I have seen here and I don't dispute anything. I wish I could have been apart of this forum years ago, unfortunately I had forgot about this case. I was 10 years old at the time it happened and remember my Mother discussing it. I am a Cheesehead literally. ..born and raised in Wisconsin, this news hit here back in 1981. I came across something said about Keddie in a group for Avery/Dassey and I have been here since. Dmac has done a great job and has done so much for this and I will be here to witness everything come full circle. I also want to thank MG and GH for their compassion and dedication to seeing this finally solved.
I am disgusted with the way this case was handled and that the perps have been free to roam.
That will change soon enough and I hope they rot in a special place in hell if not behind bars...rabid animals.
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Re: Seabolts

Postby budrfligh » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:09 pm

Once I learned to navigate so- so this forum I realized I was only reading the ladt page of a topic. After that realization I went back to pages 1,2,3and etc. I discovered most of my thoughts weren't unique and well covered and explained. I think this forum has nailed it down very well. Instead of interrupting with questions asked many times I'm going further back to find how the conclusions were formed. With facts, docs, truth telling and every theory beaten till dust. I believe M/M were the driving force and le was tbeir blessing in corrupt uniforms for reasons known to the killers. I also believe many know things but are still afraid. I came to forum a year ago. I'm 49 years old and can't navigate tech stuff well. I am getting the hang of it. I have seen the tbeories shape into the most likely probability lately. Thanks for your brutal patience Dmac. You're a pretensious, self righteous ass sometimes but I see why. The info is in here and while I was ignorant technically some are lazy and want it written in order.
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Re: Seabolts

Postby dragonfly » Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:36 pm

I'm new to the forum and grew up in Quincy. I have known the Seabolt family most of my life. I went to school and church with the kids, and later worked with Zonita in the local schools. She was a dedicated volunteer. James Sr. was not, and is not, a member of the Mormon Church. Only Zonita and the kids. He would attend a family baptism or wedding at the church, but those were very rare occasions. (5-10 times over a 30 yr. span??) The men in the front porch photo recently referred to are probably not James Sr. and Jr. It is hard to tell from the photo, but only missionaries wore, and continue to wear the "uniform" that has been described. Church members do not. They wear ordinary, average, going-to-church clothes. Jamie (Jr.) usually wore jeans or cords and a button down shirt. If Jamie had clothes that if put together resembled missionary garb, he probably wouldn't have worn them together. Not appropriate. Jamie had sandy brown hair and was bulkier than his father. Senior had black hair and was thin. I never saw him in anything other than logger jeans and a tee shirt and/or flannel button down. My speculation: If the uniformed men look like teenagers (I can't tell from photo), then they were missionaries called to pray with Zonita and help with her kids. If they appear to be full-grown men they could have been church elders or as suggested, detectives. Short- sleeved white button down shirts and dark slacks were a pretty typical conservative business look in that era.

It was brought up in the forum that Jamie doesn't publicly comment on the case. That doesn't surprise me. I know that the murders deeply hurt the Seabolt family. Not only because they felt close to the kids, but because the rumors that James Sr. was a child molester and possible killer began immediately and ran rampant. Keddie and Quincy are small communities, and that rumor has followed the family ever since. As you can imagine, it completely changed their lives. James and Zonita had no education and were always scrambling for money. Zonita cleaned houses and James did odd jobs and sold firewood. When he wasn't out looking for wood, he was hunting. Venison and bear were staples in their home - free food. James was very shy and an introvert. Any spare time he had was spent with his family. I can't say if the rumors were true or not. I suspect they weren't. Up until the murders the Seabolt home was considered a safe place for kids. And it was always full of them - their own multitude, school and church friends, and many little Keddie ragamuffins. After the murders their home continued to be a hang out, meeting place and slumber party destination for many children. I'm told that Zonita's funeral was packed with people eager to share glowing testimonials as to her importance in their childhoods
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Re: Seabolts

Postby Magnum PI » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:41 pm

Dragonfly... Thank you for the insight.
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Re: Seabolts

Postby dmac » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:15 pm

Your insights on how Jamie and James looked, would dress, vs the OBVIOUS dress of missionaries, completely destroys so many of my assertions.

Thanks for uncovering so much bullshit in my last posts, and thank you for giving the Seabolts such overdue, yet simple, respect.

This may kinda be off-base because I get so much moronic flak mail from the YouTube channel. one of the predominant hate-mails is "the two stupid women at the beginning who call Sue a whore".

Well, Josh used psychics, so there were more than three. He also used Metcalf from the Plumas News and she is a lying cunt. Then I believe Josh used Zonita Seabolt right after Metcalf.

Josh did show Zonita as very reserved and kind in his films. Zonita knew a lot and said very little. She came off as objective and reserved.

Anyone comapring Zonita to Metcalf or the psychics is a complete twat.
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