"KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

"KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby dmac » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:01 pm

I've long spoken of how the victims were systematically executed within a very small portion of the living room, and how BOTH SIDES of the cushion were heavily stained with multiple layers of blood.

I've long spoken of how the killers only used the light from the bathroom or girls' room during the crimes, so as not to attract outside attention.

THESE TWO DEDUCTIONS ACTUALLY INTERSECT!

Edited from an earlier post:

    Here's a third POV shot, mimicking the lighting, since the house was dark. The killers only used the girls' bedroom &/or bathroom light during the crimes. I lit this model as if there was bright, Hollywood spotlight-type lighting coming from the hallway (which actually had no light), which makes it much brighter than it would have been, even after one's eyes adjusted. In actuality, they operated in near-darkness...

    WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY THE "KILL ZONE" WAS IN THAT SMALL SHAFT OF LIGHT HITTING THE LR!

The bedroom/bathroom lighting is PROVED by the Kill Zone, while the location of the Kill Zone is explained by the lighting.

Howzzat for Holmesian, IPO?
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby dmac » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:31 pm

The killers used the bathroom light to carry out the murders.

In the following image, YELLOW indicates what light would have hit the LR from the girls' room. BLUE is what light would have come from the bathroom. It's blatantly obvious the coverage from the bath is a perfect match for the kill zone.

160103-cabin28_LIGHT_2.jpg
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby dmac » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:34 pm

When I got home tonight, I used my 3D prog to recreate the crime scene as if it were lit solely from the bathroom. Compare these two shots (one with the cushion and bodies, one without) to the graphic in my last post indicating how the bedroom and bathroom light sources would hit the LR:

14141801_1756850541252937_1856830752284159150_n.jpg
14192081_1756850471252944_184043822243196806_n.jpg

Looks like I nailed it. Lighting from the bathroom would be the safest, particularly considering the cardboard from the rear window of the girls' bedroom had been removed (it had blood drops on top of it).

The light from the bathroom illuminates only the "Kill Zone". Check and mate.

Again, the images in this post were created with more light than actually existed, so as to be able to see both the illuminated part of the room, and what was in the shadows.
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby IPO » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:33 pm

One observation. Sue was very near sighted without her eyeglasses, while I only wear reading glasses, I find in very good light I don't need them. However, when I am in dim lighting I cannot read without the reading glasses. Light very much affects how I see. Perhaps someone who is near sighted could confirm that the same is true for someone with that condition. If so, was Sue was meant to "see" her son, Dana, and possibly Tina being murdered. I doubt she would have been able to see very much in the dim light from either the bathroom or girls' room, perhaps why that was why she was walked around through the blood so she could have a look to see what had been done. I don't know how far she could see without her eyeglasses, but do know that light makes a difference.
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby dmac » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:42 pm

I don't think she needed good vision or light to know what was going down. Had she been blindfolded and earplugged, she would still have understood what was happening, and would have known she was stepping in puddles of her own kids' blood. I'm very myopic myself (-4.5). I can't see for crap, but I'd sure as hell be able to make out what was transpiring in that dimly-lit room.

The killing took place center stage, where the stage was lit. Sue could see well enough.

Note: The sole light in the bathroom, according to Wright's diagram, was above the sink (see below diagram). This would diffuse it further before being cut off by three doorways and the couch and the white table where the clothing and knife/hammer was found.

ANOTHER NOTE: this has been bugging me for YEARS but I keep forgetting to mention it. The knife and hammer was posed atop the bloody denim shirt. SO WAS SHEILA'S CLARINET / FLUTE CASE. All of that was POSED, so what the hell does her ajar case (it looks like the instrument was inside) have to do with the murders?!

It's logical her case and music book were both knocked off the table at the same time. The book, folder, and music papers would fly off, while the heavier instrument would land just beside the table in the traffic zone. Still,that shit was POSED, and I can't shake the idea there's something more to that case. I can't match any wounds to it. I can't think why else it would be posed next to the other 'instruments of murder'.

That case is NOT mentioned in any CS reports I've seen. Nor was the table leg (DeCrona's "busted up furniture). Stoy didn't mention so MANY things taken into evidence. <READ: Destroyed by pigs>
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby lynabus » Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:23 am

Where are the bloody footprints from Sue or the killers? In that much lighting into the livingroom from the bathroom, you have to think that the killers' feet/shoes were covered in that amount of bloodshed. There would have to be some sort of evidence of that left behind. Did they also cover their shoes with medical tape, so as not to leave prints behind?
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby dmac » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:56 pm

Oh, geez, you're simply asking where Sue's bloody footprints were found in relevance to the images I've mocked up? That's okay.
No shoe or boot prints in paperwork I've heard of, only Sue's bloody footprints.

Show me a report about bloody footprints, because we figured it out years after the lies. LE took plenty of pictures of Sue's bloody footprints, yet I've never seen a single document acknowledging bloody footprints, much less that Sue was alive to make them.

PHOTO EVIDENCE SHOWS BARE FOOTPRINTS THROUGH PUDDLES OF BLOOD.

Not to be vague...

Explain to me your question and point, because Sue walked through the blood of her kids.

PS I intentionally deleted all the images from this thread. This case is not infotainment, I put up the images to prove the point, then deleted them.
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby lynabus » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:58 am

Those perpetrators/ murderers had to leave bloody imprints somewhere in that small area. That was my reason for posting. I don't want to see photos. I am not here for that. Basically, this case is solved and no need for anyone to ask questions. I guess during the staging then any footprints seen left behind by the rats were also covered up as well.
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby IPO » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:06 am

Re images: I also am not interested in seeing crime scene images. Mock ups of the cabin layout and where the bodies were left posed is enough information for me. I do understand the question though of how, I believe three if not 4 perps' walked around without leaving any bloodied footprints. I also strongly believe all 3 boys were brought out of the bedroom. Why no footprints other than Sue's (whether alive or dead) bloodied footprints. The room is small and the blood is plentiful. How did at least six other people come into the living room without even leaving a few partial foot or shoe imprints?
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby bbragg » Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:33 pm

i have wondered how the killers walked all over the house and never left one foot print,if I am out side and step in dog crap.i will track it in the house
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby dntblvu » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:48 pm

Socks, garbage bags over their feet?????
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby dmac » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:14 pm

1> I wasn't saying anyone on the forum, or on this thread, wanted to see the images. I just wanted to make clear why I delete them so quickly. Also, I just posted them today on the Facebook page I've set up.

2> How do we know bloody shoeprints / bootprints weren't found in the house? Just because we haven't detected them in the crappy shots doesn't mean much. Just because we haven't seen them listed in reports certainly means jack. And just because we've heard all kinds of stories (Justin's shoes taken into evidence; boot prints found in the cabin, on the back stairs, in the back yard dirt, etc; Marty burning shoes; etc) certainly doesn't mean shit.

If someone steps in blood thick and wet enough to pick up and transfer prints, as Sue clearly did, nothing such as socks or plastic bags would stop the transfer of blood onto other surfaces. If you're familiar with the crime scene and the blood maps and 3D mockups, its clear there were massive blood stains and some aortic spray and even smears on the carpet. But remember how the W4 wounds had to be applied while the perp was KNEELING next to Dana, in a position later filled by Johnny's corpse? The killers avoided blood spots by choosing this blood-free position, then later placed Johnny there.

There are SO DAMNED MANY explanations for why there weren't more bloody prints, and at the top of the list is WE DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT TO BE TRUE. As with 220,000 other case-related topics, it's something I've not yet discussed with PCSO.

The other obvious explanation is the killers, on-scene POIs, surviving boys, Sheila, Jamie, Don Davis, and all of LE avoided the mass bleed-out zones where enough wet blood was available to pick up on shoes thick enough to track around. Other than the kill zone and several bleed-out spots, and the spray in the kill zone, there probably weren't a hell of a lot of places to pick up and transfer enough blood to leave prints. I've been looking at that carpet for years and still don't see the lack of bloody shoe prints to be all that alarming.

Even Sue's bloody foot prints were at the very edge of a deep puddle she'd just stepped in. She didn't leave a trail of prints! If anyone had the requisite blood on their feet to leave a TRAIL of prints, IT WAS SUE. She didn't.

Bottom line: If we don't see anything but Sue's prints clearly in photos. and we don't read or hear anything legit about bloody foot prints from others, WTF does it matter? Does that mean the killers, the victims, the boys, Sheila, Jamie, Don, and LE were never inside 28?! Or does it mean you're imagining aberrations and impossibilities that simply aren't there?
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby IPO » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:27 am

Dmac, I guess we're trying to visualize what might have happened. Will we ever understand the reasons why. Probably only to a certain extent, as psychopaths are incapable of feelings for anyone other than themselves. That's why their crimes baffle everyone. We cannot imagine how their mind works, nor do I want to. But, this forum is for us to discuss the crime scene as best as we can figure it out. You have done an absolutely incredible job of laying it out for us. But, we all see different things. I still wonder how so many people could have maneuvered around that extremely small room without stepping in blood and in low light, from your crime scene layouts the three bodies and couch take up most of the living room! Also, I still believe the murderers wanted Sue to feel the pain of the other three murders being committed. And once again I reiterate, she could not see what was happening. I strongly disagree with your comment that she could see enough and was aware, she could not see!! I think that it was vital for the perps that she see what was happening. While these may be "wtf" issues to you. Obviously to a couple of us these are reasonable questions. I know I don't expect you to be able to answer these questions. But I think they are more than reasonable.
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby dmac » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:52 am

Years ago, I used to spend a lot of time trying to understand exactly how it went down. I then found that to be a time-waster for me, as I grasped a ballpark idea of what happened (damage to walls, the kill zone, very low lighting, an arc of bleed-out spots running from where Dana's head was left into the south front corner of the room) and grow to understand the basic mechanics of what these asshats were up to. Understanding the level of staging was more important to me than figuring out a lot of other things, because staging made it clear, for instance, that the victims had been attacked, left to bleed out, then brought back to the KZ. Then dumped somewhere again in the room, so another victim could be processed.

It's very clear to me there was abundant clean carpet in that room to maneuver around without tracking blood all over. Divide the room into the top, bottom, right and left. TOP is the wall in common with the boys room (NW wall), RIGHT is the front door wall (NE), BOTTOM is where the TV and all the bodies were (SE), and LEFT is the wall in common with the kitchen, which the couch was jammed up against (SW). The killings all occurred in the bottom half of the room, and the majority of the right side of the room had no blood in it. The central bottom of the room is where the KZ was. Once the victims were down and being processed by the killers, they were always on the bottom half of the room, dragged to where their heads left bleed-out spots, if applicable. This left TONS of space to navigate that room without without getting too bloody or getting your shoes wet.

Here's the most recent and clear 3-D 360° view of the kill zone. I'll try to get one made with the recent lighting from the bathroom, but those images take hours for my best computer (3.8 Ghz quad-core processor, 8 gigs of RAM) to generate.

I don't have much more to share on that, because I think it's pretty cut and dried without further reports or evidence. I'll be emailing Gamberg today ad have it on a short list of things to ask: Footprints and bootprints, bloody or otherwise.

Back to eyesight. Mine is dogshit and rapidly deteriorating in recent months. I am EXTREMELY myopic, and normal book print is illegible about 11" from my eyes. Only comfortable at eight, whis is too small for comfortable reading. I can't read ten inch lettering some 20 feet away. I have ZERO DOUBT that, if Sue had my poor vision, she could recognize who was who so far as victims went, and who was who so far as the killers she knew, from any vantage point or position. Last night I lit my kitchen / dining room area, which is comparable to the front room of 28 but larger, from my bedroom and then from the bathroom. All I did was piss off my cat (I had to put her in the closet to get her out from under foot) and prove that I could recognize most everything in the room in lighting very similar to what I've shown the killers used in 28. It took about thirty seconds for my eyes to acclimate after going from the brightly lit room back to my kitchen, but Sue, unfortunately, had exponentially more time to recognize hell was unfolding before her.

BTW, how do you know Sue couldn't see? I've never seen her script listed anywhere. Or are you talking about low light, or a combination of both? I don't know what you're going by, but it's doubtful Sue's eyes were as bad as mine currently are.
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby dmac » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:38 am

This is from something I wrote to Gamberg, and it contains nothing I can't share here, so 'no offence, Mike':

    "Sue was posed last, as the way she was found [including sheet and blanket] blocked a load of light. The way she was originally posed, before being rotated over and covered, would have blocked almost all the light. Sue was the first to be attacked, the last to die, and her posing / staging was also last- and the most meticulous."

Sue was the target, folks. Nobody can show a lick of logic that the killers even knew Tina was home, or that they cared since...

SUE WAS THE SOLE TARGET.
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby dmac » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:56 am

Something about my next-to-last post bothers me, as it's not accurate. I spoke of how the killers kept to one side, out of the blood. FALSE.

They killers kept paths FOR TRAFFIC. For walking, for moving around from vic to vic, etc. Yes, for moving the victims around.

They still had to move them around to get them into those positions. I believe the routine was to drag one out of the way to make room for the next. All of this sounds pre-planned, which the home invasion certainly was.

Later, TWO PEOPLE, one at the head and one at the feet, placed Johnny into his last known position- that's proved by the splay of his green vest. The killers also needed to move Dana's corpse into place, and I believe it was done clumsily or half-assed, like maybe one of the boys was forced into it.

Also, look at the arc of blood found under Dana's legs. Dana was placed there much later, so ignore the Dana aspect. Look at the arc of blood. I want SOMEONE WITH KNOWLEDGE to assert this, but it appears the victim (I believe it was Johnny) was face up with his feet near Sue's purse, and the killer straddling him and stabbing him in the throat. Clearly lit in the kill zone, Johnny had no defense and was probably, hopefully, already unconscious from the hammer wounds that smashed his skull.

THE KILLERS WERE IN AND OUT OF THAT AREA- south central as we NWA call it.

THIS WAS METHODICAL. If you want to see it for what it is. It was CRAZY, but once blood was spilled IT WAS METHODICAL.

"who did what" is shit I will not even bother addressing, so don't ask. Yeah, I've thought about it and have several versions. Such is the result of wasted endeavors.

Strip it to the bone. Place true facts and known 'things' on the skeleton to connect those bones. Without sinew, muscle, you have a red skelton and you're wasting your time.

The killers were in the kill zone, NO DOUBT, but they methodically killed four people with a lot of blood loss yet had no substantial risk of stepping in blood.

And the left two packs of Camels.

"Hi, Marty. This is my dad, Bo"

UPDATE 12:25 pm Look at the methodology and then realize the killers could have written their names in blood on a note to cops, and the result would have been almost the same.

Look who showed up, look who were first responders. As I've chimed, they've proven to be the best of the case as THEY WEREN'T BENT to Doug Thomas and the PCSO GANG. Shaver's report is still alarmingly good and transparent. I don't know the ins and out of Forcino, but Mike says he was a good cop, good partner.

Decent cops showed up and took down what still remains as damning and alarming statements against the rest of LE.

THEY WROTE DOWN TRUTH.
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby dmac » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:49 am

You want legroom? Look at this image and you'll see this systematic killing was also a lazy arc of dragging bodies around before posing.

http://www.dermandar.com/p/dLKoLu

To me, that ARC of bleed-outs proves the killers avoided walking through blood by dragging victims. They avoided blood by doing the W4 damage to Dana before Jonny was put in place. PS Sue was dead or near it when Dana's head was split, so that means Sue was in place before Dana, before Johnny. Johnny's body, therefore, was actually the last posed.

Like the killers painted themselves out the front door.

You know what, IPO, you nailed exactly why this is a good point. I just realized SUE was posed first, but Johnny was the last one put in place before the killers left.

Sue first. Meticulously posed.

Dana next, head bashed with W4 to make the crime seem less attached to Sue or Tina (taken for staging), and Dana's w4 blood spatter was on Sue's bare skin. And whoever whacked Dana was kneeling in the very spot Johnny was later posed. Johnny was picked up (by TWO PEOPLE) and lowered into that position.

Then Dana's ankles were poorly and lazily tied to Johnny's to make them look "connected" or target or threat. They were neither.

THANK YOU, IPO, in a refresher course as to "REVIEW THE OBVIOUS". You nailed so much. THANK YOU IPO!


For posing and staging, Tina was taken from the crime scene and stashed for later removal.

ALL OF THEM WERE ALREADY DEAD. YES, INCLUDING TINA. but Sue and even Johnny may still have been alive, technically.

STAGING


TINA FIRST. Dead, carried over the bridge to be taken to c18 later.

THEN SUE meticulously posed in a position that further humiliated her corpse as a sexually-driven crime.

THEN DANA, postmortem head split with a bludgeon, blood on Sue's skin proving she was in place already.

THEN JOHNNY. The killers whacked Dana three times with W4 from where Johnny was later placed. A clean spot on the floor. Johnny's vest splayed out on both sides, proving he was lowered into place BY TWO PEOPLE.

Then Dana and Johnny were shabbily tied together with the white extension cord.

If Dana's blood was on Sue but not the couch or wall or corkboard behind her (as she was found), yet Dana's blood is all over the wall in common with the boys' room, what does that make you ask?

And DON'T ASK. The cops took wall into evidence, probably because it was knife and blood. Had they taken the gerbils into evidence due to blood on the cage, the only thing we may know is the names of their kids.

Had they taken basic blood samples, we wouldn't be here.
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby dmac » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:13 pm

I thank IPO most for the constant nagging [and she comprehends how much I respect her opinions, otherwise I would haveignored the footprints angle altogether)], but I thank ALL OF YOU who were shouting about bloody footprints.

PS, bloody footprints still are a disastrous waste of time based on EVIDENCE AT HAND. Please realize time is better spent researching things or developing your own facts via independent research. The bloody prints are still an unprovable wankfest. Jerk the meat at your own peril, but don't include me.

I know your impatience and overbearing crap about footprints directly led to my breakthrough of how, and in which order, the bodies were staged.

"I used to spend a lot of time trying to understand exactly how it went down. I then found that to be a time-waster for me". Yeah, thanks again for proving me wrong! THIS IS THE BEST FORUM! Crazy topic but I love you guys for caring and thinking.

Talk about a back-handed compliment! I didn't mean it as such. There's so many members on this forum, there's so few who voice their opinions or concerns.

I feel like we're a train, connected but we drop off boxes of members who never visit the site. Baggage, we dump it too. We will get over that hill.
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby IPO » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:00 pm

Dmac thank you...and thank you to your cat. I remember reading somewhere on the Forum that the first thing Sue put in in the morning and the last thing she removed at bed were her glasses, I know other people who do the same thing. They even put them on if they have to get up in the night to head to the bathroom. I've also had discussions with friends who wear glasses for nighttime driving but are fine to drive without them in the daylight, even cameras rely on light to take a clear and sharp photo. I love scary movies. Often there are scenes that take place in darkness. Before high def it was almost impossible to see what was going on...infuriated me!! Light makes a difference. As I mentioned, I wear reading glasses. But, I don't need them on my IPad because it is a lighted screen. I also don't need them to read if I'm outside on a sunny day, but in the evening, reading page print I need not only my reading glasses but a fairly bright light.

You went to incredible lengths to prove the "posing". I think you are right in the mark that Sue was posed first. It was all about her. So she had to be posed first, it was like the queen and her subjects. It was sick and disturbing to hear the description of how it might have gone down. My heart cries out for justice for these four people, and their families.

Might be posting in the wrong place, but I've often raised up that Sue's 3 surviving children seem to avoid the subject of this brutal killing. I've also mentioned that they never placed a gravestone in their sister Tina's grave.....not even when they were adults. That is strange. But, I think of Sue's brother and sister. Yes, I've heard they are soft spoken or something to that nature, now I don't even like my sister or her daughters. Being honest here. But if something like this happened, I would be demanding answers, I may not like my sister, but I love her. There is a difference.

Also I'm surprised that nearly all of the friends, families, and perps have remained in the area. If I wanted to distance myself from these crimes, I'd have moved as far away as possible. It's not like most of them had good paying jobs and pensions that they would have been leaving behind,
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Re: "KILL ZONE" & Lighting Proved

Postby dmac » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:24 pm

It's about so many things Justin, Greg, and Rick endured, and still do. We have no objective point by which to judge, much less malign, them.

I see them as the most direct living victims, and others here could make an effort to understand how and why myself and others conclude as much.

Our biggest fault is being human, so we're asking years before the Qs were answered, being belligerent rather than complacent.

In the end, we've knocked on the wrong doors several times and have said some heinous, hateful things.

In the end, I would take none of it back for the progress made.
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