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First time posting and have questions

Postby truecrimebluff » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:14 pm

Did Justin know more than he let on? Was he really awake? Was he spending the night to give his parents an excuse to get into the house?
Did Tina die in the house? If she did why would they take the body? Could she have been been kept alive for one of the killers sexual pleasure and then discarded.
If all the cabins were in such close proximity how come only one person I think said they heard anything?

Any help answering these would be appreciated.


Re: First time posting and have questions

Postby Ausgirl » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:06 pm

Justin was absolutely awake. I have no doubt there. As to the other kids, I think they probably were, too. Though you'd think a crime like this would create a terrible racket. it pays to keep in mind that you can pretty much stretch your arms between 28 and the cabin next door, and touch both walls. That's where Sheila was sleeping for the night, but apart from (iirc) the Seabolt's dog barking a little, nobody heard anything. Long way of saying, I think the killers exerted a great deal of control over the victims, which can make a crime a lot more quiet than the scene suggests, so there's that to explain maybe why more neighbours heard nothing - some were in the drug trade and maybe heard nothing on purpose, but the Seabolts didn't hear a ruckus right next door, and they were not nefarious people (as far as I know, heh).

But I think ALL the kids in the house were awake that night and scared out of their minds.

Justin's presence in the house... I've thought about this a lot over the years, and I still dunno. I can conjecture, based on what we know, that it's possible Marty & Bo simply didn't care he was there. But now and then, especially when I consider the possibility of deeper pre-med, I gotta wonder about why he was there, on that particular night. Good question, sorry I don't have a clearer opinion it.

Tina was smashed up, there was evidence of broken ribs, if I remember right, and a head wound. Which matches a pattern of blunt force injuries at the cabin. I think she was dead, and her removal was a way to shift the attention off the real motive - whatever that was. Maybe the fact Justin was Tina's friend (moreso than the younger Sharp boys) played into that.. but I kinda doubt it. Justin said from the get go that it was Tina missing, he knew she'd been taken away, but whether he saw her body being taken out and was confused, or someone told him that's how it happened, I dunno. But I really believe she was killed that night, and probably in the cabin.

In his confession Marty claimed he killed Tina because she was a witness (one whose mother he wasn't married to..) yet the evidence suggests the attack on Sue began in the bedroom she was sharing with Tina, and there's blood spots on Tina's sheet. Justin said he saw Tina wander out of the bedroom, but an attack on Sue in there would have probably woken her up right away. I suspect Marty's confession came a side of lies, so who knows if that was really his motive, or whether he dragged Sue out quietly enough not to wake Tina until later, and she was killed at that point. Seeing as Marty et al went on a drive the next day, giving them the means of body disposal, I highly doubt Tina was alive for that.

Just my thoughts on it.

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Re: First time posting and have questions

Postby Sheepish » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:09 pm

The noise (or lack thereof) issue has always been a sticking point. Aside from one source hearing a lone muffled scream we've got a score of people close enough to hear everything, hearing nothing. I agree that crowd control had to be in play early on for events to play out as they did. Whoever screamed (probably in the girls bedroom) stopped, and quick, and the other occupant didn't scream. Why? If the attack began on Tina and Sue in their bedroom, in the dark, while the slept, and blood was shed, what type of scenario could lead to one scream being heard and then the rest of the murders quietly occurring? Whose blood is in the girls bedroom? Do we have any reason to believe that Johnny or Dana were wounded in the girls bedroom, or can we reasonably say that its either Sue or Tina's? If it belonged to one of the females, was it tied to the scream? Was the person wounded the one who screamed, or the person who saw someone being wounded? Again, why did the screaming then stop?

We know Sue didnt die in the initial attack in that bedroom, so that leaves the blood source being a nonfatal wound to Sue, a nonfatal wound to Tina, or a fatal wound to Tina. Dmac had said something in another thread about Johnny and Dana not knowing Tina was dead in relation to crowd control. Perhaps there's something to that. It still seems cumbersome to me, to walk around a populated area with a dead girl for a while, just so you can then drive around with a dead girl for a while, stash a dead girl in public for a while, then come back and play move the dead body again.... all for a diversion tactic. Lots of effort and chances to get caught for very little payoff, if you ask me, if the whole motive was simply to throw the scent off Sue being the primary target. To me it seems more likely that Tina's body wasn't found in the house, because she wasn't killed in the house. Perhaps after that initial attack she was removed alive(though maybe hurt and/or incapacitated) as the primary means of crowd control. This would somewhat mesh up with the therapists account of Marty's confession where he indicated Tina was killed in the middle of nowhere, where no one would hear the commotion he claims she made. Removing Tina would keep cabin 28 occupants quiet if they were told she would be killed if anyone yelled for help or woke the neighborhood. The same tactic could be used on Tina if she were conscious at that point, telling her that her family would be killed if she made noise. Killers could keep all parties quiet, and still kill all witnesses without either group knowing of the others demise.

Tina's removal would also seem to line up with other circumstantial and probably dubious testimonies(so consider, but with a grain of salt), like Justin's claimed insistence to look for Tina (not Tina's body) by the river, Marty's confession to the therapist, Bo's family claiming he wouldn't kill a child of Tina's age, etc. But the theory also raises problems like if Marty high tailed it out of the crime scene to babysit a live Tina, who stayed behind and how did they manage the situation from there on? I have to wonder if perhaps this is where Marilyn came in simply because I cant see Bo handling everything himself in 28. Several accounts have Marilyn and Tina on friendly terms, could Marty have handed Tina off to Marilyn telling her to keep the girl quiet while he went back to 28 to help Bo with Sue, and then were surprised by Johnny and Dana walking in? After the three were murdered in 28, there would still be time to circle back for Tina, telling her that her family was still alive and would stay that way if she went with the killer(s) quietly. I would think she must have been killed shortly thereafter either somewhere over the hanging bridge, or near camp 18.
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Re: First time posting and have questions

Postby cinnimon97 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:18 pm

Hello Everyone --- I'm new to the board and I'm excited about reading up on all the knowledge of this forum

I was only 3 years old when this murder happened --- My grandparents lived close to where the murders happened and when my grandpa passed in his late 40's my grandmother moved back to Arkansas to be with her family --- So from a very young age growing up my grandmother was always talking about this case she kept in contact with friends and family from the area -- When I got older and asked more details about it she gave a her "scrapbook" of events things that were going on thru the years of her life -- She had TONS of information, newspapers etc from the murders so she gave it to me and I followed it and read about it for years -- In college I wrote a paper on the murders and a speech also --- The murders are not well known in our area but a lot of my peers asked me for information after my speech.....

The boys being asleep at the time of the murders has never sit well with me either --- I'm sure they were scared -- and in that situation and that age I'm sure I would've done the same -- but what always bothered me was after all these years they are still remained silent --- I'm in shock that 1 of the 3 boys haven't come forward or just tired of the quit that they must still be feeling --- I don't think it was planned for the boys to be around --- I honestly feel the boys walked in on the attack on Sue -- Everything I have read on the boys they were always out and about. I have ALWAYS felt that Sue was the only target (now the motive I haven't read a lot of good info no her yet hoping too here) but what I have read of her she wasn't the model parent but a single Mother raising 5 kids had to be a HUGE task. I also think Tina was taking to stage what really happened and was probably used to keep the other quite.

I have TONS and TONS of questions and thoughts but I want to read up on some of the info on the site before I say too much!!

I'm happy to be apart of this !!
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Re: First time posting and have questions

Postby leenie963 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:10 pm

truecrimebluff wrote:Did Justin know more than he let on? Was he really awake? Was he spending the night to give his parents an excuse to get into the house?
Did Tina die in the house? If she did why would they take the body? Could she have been been kept alive for one of the killers sexual pleasure and then discarded.
If all the cabins were in such close proximity how come only one person I think said they heard anything?

Any help answering these would be appreciated.

I truly believe Justin knows most of what happened that night and yes, he and the other kids were awake. Even if the killers contained the screams, there had to have been other noise during the crime, such as a knife being thrown at the joining wall of the boys room and living room where the attacks and staging took place. Those kids heard it and no doubt were terrorized out of their minds, perhaps blocking it out. But Justin's own "love boat" hypnosis has enough information about the murders to tell you he saw much of the crime. As for Justin spending the night at 28, I read the opinions on that--he had never stayed over there before that night. Was he planted? I don't know, but I doubt it. For as crappy a mother as Marilyn is/was, I don't think she had prior knowledge the murders where going to happen, let alone put her son in the middle of the crime as it was taking place. Marty on the other hand I wouldn't put anything past him.

In my opinion I feel Tina was one of two things: dead or dying as she was taken from the house. Blood found in the girls room shows the attack most likely started there. Tina and Sue were sleeping and no doubt Tina was awakened to the horror of MB over powering her and her mother. No one knows about a sexual assault upon Tina, and I truly hope that poor baby girl didn't suffer that as well.

Sounds...hearing them, not hearing them, dogs barking, dogs not barking, lights on, lights many things in the interviews that describe the environment that night. One muffled scream heard at 1:15 am. Just one. It wasn't next door where Sheila was spending the night where you'd think someone in that house would have heard something. It wouldn't be terribly hard to control Sue and Tina who I think were 100 lbs soaking wet; very petite and easy to overpower. I can't help but think of Sue with three gags...three. Was it her scream that was heard?
Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you're honest with them.
Then you're an asshole. ~George Carlin

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