Who Slept Where & How Did the Killers Know?

[dntblvu]

So if they wanted sue to witness all the others killed, they killed tina in the house. You say dana was killed first, but you say the girls were attacked first. If they conspired to kill all four and-blah never mind. I'm tired and don't know what I'm trying to say or ask.

[dmac]

Russo, Azu- I was responding to Russo's post with a similar story of how many (former members or assholes from other sites with their heads firmly up their backsides) have accused me of being blind due to my own outrageous theories. Granted, I'm also the first to admit how insane this case is. My post wasn't directed at any current members of the forum.

I've found members of other forums to be incredibly stupid, thick-headed while thin-skinned, and absolutely guilty of the charges they've leveled at me. The people on Reddit are generally the worst, with many on websloths, including a moderator who has to be the dumbest pig I've met outside of this investigation: Stan D Reid. He banned me for pointing out how incredibly dumb it was for him to openly state that he refuses to bone up on anything before formulating his opinions. He made many other disparaging remarks directed at the case and, in particular, my proven research. Can you imagine how many false arrests and convictions this pea-brained troglodyte is responsible for... if he ever made it above carpool attendant! Of course, being a mod on websloths, he deleted many of my remarks, and has slowly deleted the majority of his own moronic posts, now that he's been proved 100% wrong and 100% a twat.

Here's his latest surviving post on the case, after the hammer was found.

"I wonder if somebody is playing a little game with us and the hammer. "

I believe he's implying I invented the hammer and turned it in myself, an elaborate plan to get media involved in order to make some toad on websloths believe the case is real- and, more importantly, that dmac is right. Talk about delusions of grandeur! I've been accused by others of turning in the hammer to attract attention to the case and myself. People are so incredibly stupid. Of course, corrupt asshole pig Stan D Reid isn't the only jackass moderator to make fools of themselves about the Keddie case and then go back and alter/delete posts in a failed bid to save face. But he's a very good example.

DNTBLVU, as far as the state of the case, they'd always want to develop more leads and get more evidence. But we've talked about the Grand Jury already, it's that close. As for POIs, Crimely, Doug Thomas, Don Stoy, DeCrona, etc., are already up to their shriveled nutsacks. You could count well over six criminally involved in the collusion to pervert justice in this case alone. The six POIs mentioned in reports, and I believe Hagwood and Gamberg would go along with this completely, are not LE and are involved in the murders themselves, in the disposal of evidence (Tina included), etc.

Hope that helps without doing a disservice to the state of the case.

[dntblvu]

Good! Yay! I hope they get enough!

[Russo]

Awesome update on the case. Astounding the number of conspirators in this. Hope they all hear the clock ticking 24/7

[foxidoxi]

I have goose bumps. Thank you D this is great..

[dmac]

It's important to clarify clothes and other crap were EVERYWHERE in the girls' room. Why were LE looking for imaginary clothing, then lying about where a pair of jeans Tina wore were (missing then) FOUND? Don Stoy lied about where those pants were found. Not missing.

Clothes were EVERYWHERE. For Sheila, or even EDITH HEAD, to notice missing clothes in that mess- much less any other misplaced objects- would be acutely suspicious- as unbelievable as Marty noting his missing hammer. Ask the Scarecrow for courage, cuz clearly nobody in the room had a heart or brain...

The pink suit is important.

This case was fucked from the inside out.

Tina's 'jeans' are a Don Stoy lie. They were found near the coiled wire in the front room. Not missing, Don FuckFace Stoy.

[dmac]

After looking at all the photos, I saw so many clothes that I know the idea of ANYONE walking through 28 looking for "altered or missing" stuff would never have accounted for anything. Too much shit in 28.

Stating what they noticed as displaced or altered is one thing. Missing? Well, other than the three bodies and all the blood on the floor, I'd love to see someone who cares about any of the victims say something relevant to the bullshit Qs being asked by PCSO & DOJ in 81.

The pink suit was found months later. Sue's surviving kids were in Oregon by that time. PCSO still got that pink suit ID'd by all of Sue's immediate local relatives.

The main issue most people have is, "if LE were lying from the start, why did this info get out?!" Josh stole it and selectively released info to make money off of the murdered innocents and other victims. The chain of command overlooking the files never thought any of it would see the light of day, much less be questioned by outside sources- OR future generations of PCSO!

I think it's safe to say Josh's head is on a plate. LE wanted my head on a plate, but - unlike Josh - our research is real. New, original, fucking insane. PCSO eventually and independently vetted our results only to find them true. Not all, but it's an irrationally STUPID coverup- first by the killers, then by LE.

Can you blame legit LE for questioning their own were that completely dumb- and OWNED by fucking morons? Sorry, I proved most prior heads of PCSO were disgusting perverts, not just morons.

Loon and Dee and Tony all have alibis: Verified lies. Go figure.

[dmac]

Having just said it would be impossible for anyone familiar with 28 to understand what's disturbed or missing, I admit it's a plausible tactic.

Missing box is still not on any legit report, yet the pants found near the posed knife and hammer are still called missing?

Tons of clothes, discarded on the floor after being worn, rather than being tossed around during any struggle? No, the bedroom was a mess of the girls' own making.

Trying to explain this is my asinine fault. The house was a trash fest. The front room, with all the blood and clothes, was almost the cleanest room in the hellhole.

Wake up and smell reality.

Slobs? Big deal.

Tina's "missing" pants found easily next to the knife and hammer, next to bloody denim clothing, vs a pink pantsuit nobody wants to know about? Sue's slinky evening dress?

Yeah, I think I know. Some people are only happy if...

This was COMPLETELY ABOUT TINA

if you're a moronic twat.

[dmac]

After some sleep, lemme clarify- CABIN 28 WAS A SHITBAG HELLHOLE BEFORE the Sharps moved in. Held together by duct tape, and the back porch's main support was literally a 2x4 tacked onto what was left of the main post! Seriously?! That home should have been CONDEMNED PRIOR to Nov 1980! They never would have lived there, this never would have happened!

Still, the Sharps had clothing EVERYWHERE- except the kitchen and back porch. They had a buttload of clothes. For LE to ask ANYONE to walk through to see if anything was missing is a complete bullshit ploy. So, that Sheila didn't recognize the sweater from the back of the toilet, it's because it belonged to a killer or Dana.

It surely didn't belong to the latter.

[DetectivePizzaJunkie]

Is LE in possession of the sweater? Has it or can it be processed?

[dmac]

I doubt LE kept it in the first place, but I can't say. I know they intentionally screwed the pooch, and much has also been "lost" or made to disappear over the years.

I've asked Mike Gamberg about the pink dress since we found the photos, and I believe he sees the significance of the article of clothing and where it was dumped/found- back bridge, Tina down by the river, etc. When it comes to clothing, it's not the jumper found behind 11, it's not the bandanas, it's not Tina's not-missing jeans. It's the pink dress, that goddamned bloody denim shirt Justin said a killer wore (Marty), and that sweater.

And any DNA collected from the butts of non-B&H cigs.

[dmac]

Sorry for drowning this thred with my own meanderings, but here's another:

Killers enter the bedroom and Tina is furthest from the killers but closest to the back window, and she screams.

If that was her screaming when the neighbors awoke to note the time, it's the last known time she was alive.

Same goes if it was Sue. for equal commitment to possibilities. But it seems Sue had no chance to scream while Tina, further away and perhaps even unnoticed by Marty Et Al, just woke up to an assault on Sue and reacted.

[budrfligh]

Wouldn't it be nice to have those answers! I too anxiously await the words indictments forthcoming. I have a pretty good idea who some are from steady reading and re-reading this forum. I am not making a public list. I don't want to get in the way of getting those indictments. I too feel it has taken too long, but the recent leaps and bounds are so very encouraging! Sending out evidence to be tested takes a lot of time.

JUSTICE COMES FOR YOU!!

[dmac]

Last night, while changing the color of the cardboard on the bed before generating the newest 3D tour, I had a moment of clarity.

Given the location of the cardboard, how straight it was arranged on Tina's and Sheila's bed, it appears as though perhaps it was never in the window that night.

I believe it was primarily used for privacy and to keep out winter cold. I've seen no indication there was another chunk of cardboard, so we're not even sure on which window it was used.

Perhaps it was taken out of the window on Sat to allow light in, maybe even some fresh afternoon air, and when Tina got home she just disrobed and hopped under the covers without bothering to get the cardboard back into the window. There's no logical reason for the killers to take the cardboard out of the window I can find. It would have been to their disadvantage to let any light out of those windows, allowing anyone to see in through the flimsy drapes. Plus, were it in place in the rear window when the killers entered the room, the screams would have been muffled by the cardboard, diminishing the chances that those in 16 would wake up, listen for more, and note the time.

[Ausgirl]

Dmac, what was the view out of that bedroom window by where Tina sleeping/the cardboard was found?

I doubt when the killers entered that there was a light on in that bedroom, if Sue and Tina were in bed and sleeping. Was there another light source that could have shone in there, perhaps an outside light?

Honestly, I can't see a kid getting into bed with abig ole sheet of card lying on top of it. Imo, it fell (very neatly?) or was *placed* on that bed. Neatly, like the knife and hammer were neatly on the table, while yet another was thrown haphazard to the floor.

Just posting this, to make a marker to come back to when I've thought about this some more.

ps, here's edith surveying the scene... with a couple of dummies.
http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/sca ... 8a33e.jpeg

[dmac]

The view would be much like this, taken from the upstairs back door deck, except it would be looking down on the clotheslines and the door into the basement.

Accounts differ about lighting. As Don drove around 28 that night and saw no lights on, it appears the Loonibi is correct when they said the lights at 28 were off. Around 4 AM, Mrs. B in 24 (pink house) noted the rear light was on, but when the people at 16 woke to screams at 115, they noticed no lights.

As is proved by this thread's findings, the crimes were committed with just the bathroom fixture for lighting. There was no light in the hallway. Marty and Loon knew 28, and it would be to their advantage NOT to turn the bedroom light on at the beginning of the attacks, so they may have solely used the bathroom light from beginning to end. Hell, they brought a kill kit, there was clear premed for a felony, so why not bring a flashlight or two when they knew light would prove a problem? Maybe an old-school metal flashlight would match a wound or three.

The cardboard on the bed didn't look too thick. I've used a lot of cardboard for art projects, and even a high-quality piece that size weighs only a couple pounds. It would be a bigger pain in the ass for little Tina to try to put it up against the wall much less back in the window (it's more awkward to move than it is heavy), so getting beneath it while crawling under the sheets is a distinct possibility. What possible reason would the killers have for removing it from the window? To make is easier for them to be seen? For screams to be heard?

The tabletop placement is another unclear statement. Justin mentioned one killer wearing all denim? Under the weapons was a denim shirt with blood spatters indicating a killer ware it, removed it, left it behind with the weapons. Amazing DT's PCSO never mentioned this when telling the public it was so random and all weapons came from the inside of 28. And what about Sheila's windwood case? why was it atop the shirt and right alongside the hammer and knife?

I don't get the Edith Head ref.

[Magnum PI]

Sue was the target!!! Not Tina, no doubt about it! IMO Justin was strategically placed in C28 that night. Hard to believe he was there by happenstance. As small as Keddie is and as close as the cabins were, it would not be difficult to determine who was home. Especially, if you were watching! Something spooked Sue, thus the door to door invitations for others to spend the night. Possibly thinking she would be safe, at least in her mind, no way someone would enter knowing there would be extra people there. And there is no way those boys slept through the Murders!

[leenie963]

Justin never told the truth about Tina, other than he knows Marty & whomever else were taking her in that direction. There is ZERO chance his story of her coming out after the murders clutching a nonexistent blanket are remotely true. He was only trying to alert people to the fact he knew she was taken in that direction.

In relation to the windows at 28, was it possible for Justin to actually watch out a particular window as MB were carrying Tina to the bridge? I thought I read somewhere that area was behind 28? Thought I bookmarked that but couldn't find it.

My point being, if there was no view from any window in 28, how did Justin know Tina was taken to that bridge? Especially in the dead of night...in the dark...no lights, etc.

[dmac]

About the first thing I did when joining this forum in June 2010 was make a map of Keddie, with roads and cabins in the right locations. I had to figure out where 28 was in relation to EVERYTHING else in order to begin understanding this crime scene and crime. I'd actually first discovered the swinging bridge in 2006, when google maps and imagery was in its infancy, but didn't know where the cabins were in relation to ANYTHING. All the lies about nothing being heard, etc., made it impossible for most of us to believe the cabin was anywhere but out in BFE compared to the other cabins. To our surprise, it was Ground Zero for the section of Keddie it was in- surrounded on all sides by cabins, the post office, the lodge, the dorm, the RR Stn and RR trailers. You couldn't get more GZ than 28. I completed that project back in 201, and here's the most recent version.

As you can see, the back of the cabin pointed NW towards the river. Going directly north from the back steps would take you to the turnoff down the steep hill to "Keddie Flats" below, and to the swinging bridge. BTW, all the back windows in 26 (bath, LR, kitchen, boys' room) look down on the flats and the swinging bridge.

I can't speak to what Justin saw, only that he was awake and forced to be involved to some degree. We know some lights around Keddie were on, but the moon was of no help that night so it was very dark outside. We also know the killers worked in near-darkness inside the cabin. But there's zero chance they were in radio silence mode. They were talking to each other, and barking orders and demands at the victims, both living and dead. Between what he saw and what he heard, Justin cottoned onto where they were headed with Tina- and probably why.

If you walk out the front door of 28, you're exposed to anyone walking by. Outside and to the right is the partially-lit street and the dorm and lodge. In the near distance across the street are neighbors' homes, and behind them the active rr station and the trailers.

If you go out the back door, you're on the enclosed rear deck with windows giving you a treehouse view down on the surrounding environs. You can sit out there for as long as you want, undetectable, looking for signs of life before deciding to take a body out of the cabin. The easiest way out of Keddie with the least risk of being seen is straight north, down the road to the flats and- just as Marty suggested- across the swinging bridge.

Whether the story of Justin telling people (ie DT) to "look for Tina down by the river" is true or a figment of Loon's alibi, the fact is they got Tina out of Keddie AND apparently chucked Sue's pink pantsuit into the 'Swimming Hole' just off the north side of that bridge. And didn't Justin say "THEY went after Tina out the back door"? It would be far easier for two to get Tina across that bridge rather than one asshole on his own, so someone would have to be in 28 to keep the scene under control until they returned. Loon is definitely lying about going home to bed and lying about being in 28 and about being involved in the murders. Yada yada yada, this goes on and on, but it lines up pretty damned well and intertwines with signs of livor mortis and rigor in the bodies before staging was completed.

[leenie963]

Always seem to be thanking ya for all your direction and help. I'm one of those dumb asses who wouldn't know North from North West, etc. I'm more of a 'up the road a piece, on the corner you'll see Exxon, take a right" type of gal. So sad yet true. With hubby's help he showed me what you explained and thankfully I get the direction you've indicated.

Since the only people have no credibility as to what they've seen/interviewed, 1981 to current, and since the Loonibi is chock full of bull pucks, would you agree Justin was telling as much truth as he was allowed in 1981? (pre DT crapola) I feel he was, before he was psychologically screwed by his "mother" and no doubt physically threatened by Marty.

I'm always on the Got Damn Casey angle...even though there is no evidence indicating he saw anything, my considerable gut is telling me otherwise. That lame ass story MB told about the Justin/Casey recreation of how to stab a person...it never happened. (IMO as usual) Loon was the ONLY source for that info, and we all know her credibility is about as trustworthy as a Catholic Priest near an elementary school.

To my OP: If Justin could not view this from a window, and you feel he may have heard the direction ordered about Tina...

then my gut is full of shit. Is it even possible Justin himself was outside watching them carry Tina away? So many things about the blood on his shoes, etc. I just CAN NOT stop this feeling that Casey knows something. Why else deny his Josh/Josh minions interview after it was given? WTFF is it with these adult "men" of Loon that to this day feign what they actually know?! Because of that need for "momma's love" from a women who has never known what love is to begin with and used those kids as leverage? f. u. c. k.

Hep me Obi Wan.