Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby sheilamotko1 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:07 am

I was thinking..there is so many different places in Keddie..Could Tina have been held in a shed before she died? I know the shed (Think it was a shed Marilyn talking about where the kids would play) I think the pic below is of it..not sure
The Sharps and the Wingates need their justice for their loved ones..may they all RIP
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby dmac » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:43 am

Think about the case. Tina died on-site and her body was removed purely for staging purposes, to misdirect the BS investigation. Marty said she was "incapacitated" before being taken from the cabin. To me, that's language qualifying she died in front of Sue's open, alive eyes. This tells us Marty, et al, did not know DT was going to come through with a knockout punch by creating a fake investigation and kutting them loose to Klamath.

Read up on what I wrote just last night about the Playhouse.

Tina was held captive at 26, the playhouse, the dormant "apartments" across the highway, at the Green Hell Motel. It's all bullshit. Say to me she left 28 alive and you're on a thin twig of support. Everything says she was dead long before Sue.
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby sheilamotko1 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:54 am

I sure will read it..
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby justice17 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:53 pm

The killers did not expect Tina to be there. I do believe she was the first to die with a
Quick Hammer Blow to the head. I hope it was instant and she didn't suffer. If Johnny and Dana
Decided to stay out partying instead of going home, they would still be alive.

SUE was the original target of a planned attack.


Maybe they did hide Tina's dead body in that playhouse or nearby, just long enough until they could get her away
from KEDDIE. There are pictures of Dee Lakes car sneaking under the radar of the helicopters,hiding under trees creeping out the back way early the following morning.
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby duffyman » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:54 am

I agree with everything dmac has concluded on this case with just one tickler that won't let me go. Even if you want to remove Tina from the house to confuse the scene, why take the chance of moving a dead body out of the house on a night when everybody and their brother seems to have had a reason to be out and about? That just seems like a big big risk.

The only thing I can think of is if somebody raped her while still in the house. If they killed everybody in front of Sue, would it be all that unbelievable to think that they could have started the evenings frolics by raping Sues daughter in front of her? Like, "So you think you are going to cause me to lose my wife? I'll make you lose your daughter's virginity!"

Then once that's done, pre DNA, they had to know their would be problems tracing anything to them except for the body fluids left inside Tina's body. So after they kill her, they find they can't just leave her body in the house, it contains evidence they can't cover up.

Well, that's my thought. Feel free to blow it full of holes, but I think it makes sense. It doesn't change the motives for the overall crime, or the sequence of events. It just makes moving the body a little less random.
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby justice17 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:08 am

:evil: :oops: Motive: SEX,MONEY or REVENGE?

REVENGE!

Sue's body was left behind. There was no sign that she was raped. Why not rape her as well? Tina was an afterthought and part of the staging. Marde without prompting says in his LE interview, "Tina was the biological Fathers favorite". Who would
Know this? Sue's friend/enemy Mrs.Marilyn Smartt.
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby dmac » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:56 pm

Duffy, I think the weight of logic and circumstances alone blows holes in your suggestion of rape/coverup.

Let's start from scratch. The murders occurred during Easter weekend, when there was a massive exodus from town- not an influx. Students from the dorm went home to family. The only PROVED action in Keddie on Sat night was at the bar, which closed by 2 AM.

28 was immediately surrounded by 15 cabins, including the murderers in 26 and the recently confirmed RR cabin 45 yards directly across from the front door of 28, where the last witnesses to see Johnny and Dana lived (Bodenhams). Of those homes, 13 & 15 were vacant while 19 & 22 were already too far gone to rent. Yes, by 81, cabins had already fallen into dangerous disrepair, some already torn down. Of the 11 remaining, the Krois rented two of them and they reported nothing. Papa Krois, in 23, did mention his cats kept going in and out.This is around 2 am. He had to keep getting up to let them out and in, and they normally slept through the night. His daughter, Vickie, lived in 17. She woke up in a char in the living room in the middle of the night and went to bed without noticing anything, but her neighbors remarked how noisy and restless the pets were that night.

Mrs. Varker lived next door in 18, and her husband is who found the sweater weighted down with rocks in the river. She claimed she went to bed at 8:30 (?!). She normally kept the dog in at night, but that night she left it out and it awoke her at 10:30, barking in the direction of back of 28. 19 was uninhabitable, so her closest neighbor was in 20, Rivera. This cabin is DIRECTLY behind 28. He only noticed it was unusually quiet that night, with his neighbor's dog unusually quiet and very few cars driving through.

The rest of the people saw or heard things directly relevant to the murders... at least in establishing sightings, where people were seen, etc. Much of this has to do with the sighting of the green van and/or green/white blazer. One sighting is from 14, where Tina was seen doing dishes at 8pm. The adult male was up til 2 and claimed to see/hear nothing unusual, while his nearest neighbors in 16 AWOKE to screams at 1:15. Cabin 14 is also where Walke/Thompson claimed to be attempting to visit at 4am, so there's a lot up odd shit surrounding the Schmids in 14.

The only other account of someone noticing something unusual DURING the perceived duration of the murders is from 24, the Big Pink. Sue's brother Don was one among many who noticed all the lights were out at 28 when they passed. He left Keddie around 11:45-12, and circled Sue's cabin, noticing no lights on. Back to cabin 24:

    810412-0100a Connie B leaves the B residence to return to Quincy. Has the “weird” feeling she is being watched.
    810412-0400a Kathy B, cabin 24, gets up from sleeping and sees the back porch light on at the Sharps residence.

That's three people in the 11 occupied cabins who noticed anything DURING the murders. Add to that the waitress from the Back Door who heard talking and something like a car door closing when she was walking to her car. That would have been 2-230 am, depending on when she was cut loose.

Add the Walke/Thomspon lie-fest and the Spang Wankfest... they claim to have been in Keddie, seeing nothing more than odd vehicles and W/T's wildly varying tales of two men in a truck. They were apparently in Keddie, but NOT for the reasons they claimed. The only thing I can think of is there lies were to cover something about drugs. Spang was and is a HUGE marijuana marketer, but now he does it with a license. Other sightings confirm his statement that he was parked by the ornamental pond for some time around midnight.

RAPE of TINA? Screams heard at 1:15 am (Doug Thomas' report shifts this to 1:30, which a SIGNIFICANT lie). The attacks began in the girls' room, and they were quickly overtaken. Bo and Marty suddenly get their asses back to 26, change clothes, and return to 're-establish' their alibis at the Back Door. Around 2 am, they're back at 28. When did the boys arrive? Were they all attacked and subdued right off the bat, or was it pure damned bad luck the boys arrived inexplicably after 2 AM, after M&B had returned?

Personally, I lean towards it all going down quickly, the boys already chilling downstairs, coats still on because Johnny' room was cold. My bet is Dana and Tina were already long gone or close to death, and Johnny unconscious from head trauma, when M&B rushed back to the bar. Only Sue was the target, and she was alive longer than Johnny or Dana. As J17 mentioned, Sue was the target but not raped. Marty showed emotion only when discussing murdering Tina, as if even he, a sociopath, knew it was wrong.

Not only was Sue not raped, but exactly when would the killers have the chance to rape Tina?

As for removing her body, it was the best part of their crappy, over-the-top, blatant staging. Why? Because it still has so many people wasting effort by entertaining the lie 36 years later. I guarantee you one thing: Head Scum at PCSO knew very quickly Tina's absence is a ruse.
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby duffyman » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:35 pm

All good points. Especially at the end. Myself, I think the better body to take and hide would have been Dana's. He was the one not related and it all would have been pointing toward him. Easy to say when you have all the time in the world to think about it. As is, you are right. Here we are speculating on a detail instead of the murdering elephants in the room. Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby dmac » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:50 pm

I've never entertained the thought of Dana being taken from the house due to reasons I'll explain later. Statements made by Marty and Bo indicate they may have pondered the idea.

I know a fair bit of trivia about other murders as a byproduct of delving into this case, but I can't recall a prior instance where others were slaughtered in order to abduct a child. Of course, the douchebag that killed the Groenes in Coeur d'Alene came much later, and so many found a direct correlation between the Groenes and Sharps that simply does NOT exist... because Tina as Target is a hoax perpetrated by the killers and 1981-2010 PCSO. Even former Keddie site/forum runner, Jesse Wolf, showed his true colors by indicating his devotion to the killer of the Groenes, himself eventually being imprisoned for multiple counts of child rape.

Groenes came nearly 25 years after Keddie, and I still cannot think of a predecessor to Keddie, off the top of my head: a case where a family is slaughtered in order to abduct/rape a child. Not to mention, Tina could have been picked off, alone, during a window of HOURS on nearly any given day, most impressively that very Saturday.

The CDC currently states a typical 12 y/o girl is 4' 11" and weighs 93 pounds. Sue was 5' 2" and 100 pounds as an adult, and with Tina being described as underdeveloped, I'd say she was roughly 4" 5" and probably closer to 80 lbs. On the other hand, Dana 5' 10" and 140 lbs. By the time the killers turned him over during staging, he was already showing major signs of livor mortis so, therefore, perhaps was also becoming rigid from rigor mortis.

Marty's own statements indicate they may have first considered taking his body from the scene for exactly the same reason you named. Whatever state of rigor Dana may have been in, getting him out of Keddie would have been exponentially more difficult than removing Tina.

Whoever wrote down license plates of cars in Keddie probably did it earlier, rather than later, that Sunday morning. In aerial photos, we have both cars leaving 26 in quick succession, with only Dee's wagon skulking out the back way, only drawing attention by trying to hide under large pines. This tells me Tina was either already in the back of the wagon (very doubtful... hidden under a blanket?!), or the killers had already stashed her outside of Keddie. Again, this goes right back to Marty lying about the back bridge being closed. It wasn't. The hammer indicates the killers used water to hide evidence. The location of Sue's pink pant suit (in the Swimming Pool adjacent and downstream from the Swinging Bridge) clearly confirms not only the use of water, but the use of that back bridge.

That bridge was in considerably better repair in 81 than it was when I crossed it 30 years on. Still, I think it would have been a bit dodgy with two people taking Tina across. Trying to get Dana across would have been a lot of work. Something every damned murderer and POI named in this case have in common is a lifelong fear of WORK.

It would be interesting to know if Duncan was inspired by the Keddie Hoax to kill an entire family in order to take the kids. That pervo sick fuck, Jesse Wolf, was certainly inspired by BOTH cases- going so far as to break into and camp inside the Groene's home. People wanting to know of direct ramifications of the lies and coverup surrounding Keddie may need look no further than Coeur d'Alene.
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby duffyman » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:32 am

Yup, avoidance of honest work seems to have been the primary motive in just about every avenue of these idiot's lives.
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby nekogirrl » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:24 am

i really think, if tina was in the back of that station wagon and headed to camp 18, she was probably in a big trash bag...maybe wrapped in a blanket or something to disguise the shape...the plastic would take care of any leaking body fluids, etc...and would explain some of the debris found with her bones...a tape dispenser being the only thing i can remember off hand...wrap her up in a blanket, add a couple of trash bags, put a couple of loops of phone wire or whatever for carry straps, it wouldn't be hard to take the body anywhere....poor little kid....
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby Billyalshef » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:22 am

a402b63363ec383971a05df6c0a43e4c.jpg
a402b63363ec383971a05df6c0a43e4c.jpg
Postby nekogirrl » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:24 am

i really think, if tina was in the back of that station wagon and headed to camp 18, she was probably in a big trash bag...maybe wrapped in a blanket or something to disguise the shape...the plastic would take care of any leaking body fluids, etc...and would explain some of the debris found with her bones...a tape dispenser being the only thing i can remember off hand...wrap her up in a blanket, add a couple of trash bags, put a couple of loops of phone wire or whatever for carry straps, it wouldn't be hard to take the body anywhere....poor little kid....
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Under the long flat carpeted cargo area is a storage area for spare tire, here are some pics of similar 78-79 fairmont wagon[img]/img][img][/img]
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby Billyalshef » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:32 pm

78/79 fairmont wagon. https://youtu.be/1iaJtUoiXXo from 16:15 mark to 17:20 details full sized 14" spare tire storage in rear, great place to hide things in plain sight....
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby Billyalshef » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:43 pm

Also on the above mentioned video you can see at mark 15:18 there is a transmission/driveline hump under front and rear seat and the length of the interior that no way would allow a 22 rifle to be under either seat.yes it is possible to remove bottom rear seat cushion and frame and maybe ....but that would seem totally impractical. I know im getting way of topic, use search engine on this site for anyone wanting to read up on 22 rifle or under seat .
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby dmac » Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:13 am

Thanks for the photos and, in particular, the vid link. I found a similar vid for the make/year of Sue's Newport years back, but couldn't find a vid when I determined Dee's was a 78-80 Fairmont wagon. And, as I've been screaming for years, EVERYTHING about the rifle offered up by Marty, Dee, and LOON, is bullshit: The transmission hump proved their lies in 81 just as it does today.

I don't see the spare tire recess as much of an advantage, as I can't imagine the killers leaving Tina in the back of the wagon from, say, 2:30 am (the outside time-frame for when I believe her body was removed from the cabin), until the killers left Dodge at noon. I also don't believe she would fit in the tire recess when her joints were still moving, much less after rigor had set. I also can't see them unloading the spare tire from the car at 3 AM, and there's certainly ZERO indication the killers' premed included a mass murder AND the disposal of Tina's body for staging purposes. Everything about these murders screams shortsightedness, a complete lack of brainpower and reasoning, and mental midgets with very short fuses.

There certainly was premed, up to and including Marty making it known someone would die if "shit [didn't] get straightened out." There's zero reason to believe the killers were sober, particularly since Marty's and Bo's pleas of being near-teetotalers that night don't align with each other, nor the idea that April 11 was Marty's fake birthday so the trip to the bar- and the murders to follow- were part of his fake birthday party.

There's so much premed. But did they expect the boys to be there? Wouldn't they have taken precautions to eliminate a confrontation with them? I firmly believe Dana was a surprise to them, and perhaps they believed Johnny wouldn't be there either and, at most, wouldn't cause an insurmountable issue. Perhaps they believed Tina and Sheila were both over at 27. Their lack of precaution going in to 28 certainly scuppers any theory someone was scoping out 28 prior to the murders, doesn't it? Not that a lookout wasn't present DURING the murders...

Perhaps, for whatever misguided reasons, they went in believing only the younger boys and Sue would be present. If so, why bring all that tape (3+ rolls), an extra hammer, at least one knife and most likely two, and an 880 rifle? OK, play it down. The killers staged it to APPEAR as though all the weapons came from 28, which would make the murders seem exactly what they weren't: a crime of opportunity and unexplained rage... a psycho-Manson scene.

Three killers, a roll of tape each, a couple knives, a pellet rifle meant to threaten (hard to tell a .22 rifle from an airgun in the light, much less in the dark), and the hammer. Yes, that HAMMER. The vast majority of wounds meant to control and kill the victims came from the hammers. The autopsy reports clearly suggest two separate sizes of hammer heads were inflicting wounds, ergo at least two hammers on scene. These murders were NOT happenstantial, and had nothing to do with mere easy entry or a drawer full of knives or a hammer on the back porch. MARTY BROUGHT HIS HAMMER AND USED IT.

Of the 'weapons' found at the scene, LE made no mention of the leg torn from the card table (other than Rod-Up-The-Ass DeCrona boasting about it when gleefully describing lurid details of the crime scene). The wood-handled hammer found atop a killer's blood-spattered denim shirt on the table was used, but the massive butcher knife next to it? That blade does NOT match any of the wounds.

As for the bent dinner steak knife, it could match many of the smaller wounds, such as hesitation wounds- which makes sense. I believe that knife was primarily used by whichever boy(s) were forced to participate, and not only lines up with the hesitation wounds but the shallow wounds to Sue and the halfhearted stabbing wounds to Johnny's chest. Without having to revisit the autopsy reports, I know for a FACT the chest wounds to Johnny were postmortem, and that the flimsy knife bent against his rib cage, which is why it was abandoned next to where his body had already been staged. See, they STAGED Johnny, then one of the boys was forced to stab his corpse.

It's POSSIBLE the steak knife could have caused a deep flesh wound, but not the deep wounds I know of: The knife used to destroy Johnny's neck was bigger and stronger, closer to the Buck-type knife discovered last April. The bent knife certainly didn't cause the pre-or-postmortem neck wound to Sue, as that stab entered her spine. The steak knife blade was probably too short, and we've already seen how it bent against Johnny's ribs. No-go. It would be nice if the ME had mentioned more details about the wounds, such as determining if a serrated blade (ie the steak knife) was used, but he was too lazy. Either way, NO-GO.

SOOO... of the weapons found at the scene, only the hammer can be linked to the actual murders. Everything else, including the electrical cords used, can thus far only be linked to the postmortem staging.

Ergo, the killers walked in armed and ready. Not like Rambo- just a couple knives, a hammer, the rifle, and plenty of tape for restraints. That's the degree of premed we see: Marty boasting about heads rolling, plenty of missed opportunities and/or overlooked intel on what was happening at 28 all Satur day and night, and the killers skulking in- armed and ready to roll- at 1:15 AM. Hell, how much time would it take to walk past 28 from the bar, grab tape, a hammer, a couple knives, and the rifle from tiny 26, and get to Sue's bedroom? Three minutes, max?

None of the above ties in well with a van scoping out 28 at 9pm, or Dee (or anyone else) eying 28 prior to the murders, perhaps from the security and warmth of cabin 15's back bedroom, from which the killers' pals had just been evicted.

These killers were/are INCREDIBLY stupid people. That does not make them dumb enough to put Tina anywhere near 26 (or anywhere within Keddie proper, for that matter) overnight, then trying to retrieve her and put her in the wagon INSIDE KEDDIE IN THE DAYLIGHT AFTER THE MURDERS WERE DISCOVERED. Loon's lies about the playhouse shows she knows Tina was dead, and hidden, but she twisted it into an easily debunked lie meant to focus attention on Bo and, primarily, Marty. Tina couldn't fit in the wheel well under the best of circumstances, and the level of staging tells me they wouldn't be dumb enough to leave her as a poorly-disguised lump in the back of Dee's Ford wagon.

There's the account of the bar waitress leaving the Back Door after closing, and hearing noises while walking to her car... apparently a man and woman talking, and a car door or trunk closing. Piss-poor sources muddy the waters. When? Where was she exactly? Where did the noises come from, EXACTLY? As Marty boasted, he's not dumb enough to drive a car back behind 28 to load a corpse at 2:30 am. That's right in the middle of eleven homes, whereas parking in front of 28 is near only to five, whereas walking a corpse to 26 OR over the bridge is visible/audible to EXACTLY ZERO on a dark night with NO MOON. The fact Martell claims the waitress is her aunt merely adds guilt by association, because Martell is 50% of the lie-fest 'reverse alibi' intended to get Tony Garedakis off the hook. Is her account of hearing things accurate? If it's a lie, all I can think of off the top is it was intended to imply the murders were JUST BEGINNING or ENDING, either way implying 26 wasn't involved.

This post was stream-of-consciousness and touched on a lot of relevant things, but the bottom line is I don't see these sub-moronic ass-hats as dumb enough to leave Tina anywhere near that Little Green Wagon overnight. I still believe the only safe way to stage Tina as "missing" and as "target/perp" is how Marty said they did it: Get Tina out of Keddie right after the murders. EVERYTHING indicates they retrieved her roughly nine hours later and, for all we know, moving her all the way to 18 was an afterthought. They only knew she'd be discovered too soon if left where they'd already dumped her.
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby Billyalshef » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:55 pm

A hammer as a weapon is a special kind of sick , its close up and personal. You are on the money about stashing body and retrieval i keep forgetting the aerial photo of perps in route to do so, if the spare area was used it was probably for car parts from reno (aka drugs), i was lucky finding video showing features of a similar type vehicle . Dee,greek,mike,loon deserve death penalties as well as DT and his affiliates at pd and doj
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby duffyman » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:34 am

The overall feel of this event is one of a spontaneous event followed by some staging that although "planned" was carried out by dumb-asses. This makes me wonder if this could have been a coke-fueled night of rage followed by an "oh shit, what do we do now?". In any case, if I were to find myself in the middle of something that would ruin my life if it got out, I would revert to past actions that might have gotten me out of trouble in the past.

What I am doing a terrible job of getting to is...

I think the cover up was probably "master minded" by Bo. He had the background for such a thing. It would be interesting to look into Bo's past and see if he might have gotten out of trouble in the past by covering up a crime in a similar way. People are creatures of habit. Especially stupid people. Most of us would not think of staging a kidnapping to cover up a murder. My guess is Bo either did this thing before, or knew intimately of someone else in his life who did. As the forum title suggests, "just speculatin"
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby dmac » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:58 am

I'm not sure how to take the 'spontaneity' factor of your remark, or of the crimes themselves. There's admittedly little spontaneity behind a premeditated crime, which this certainly was. Marty was talking murder a long time before the 11th, and was heard at the bar saying the same that very night. No matter their understanding of who was home that night (re: whether Tina, Johnny, or Sheila were home, much less surprise factors like Dana and even Justin), they must have known the younger boys were home.

They also went in well-armed. Even if they'd only initially had the multiple rolls of tape, that lays out a scenario in which they included MULTIPLE victims of, at the very least, a felonious home invasion. Whether or not they were drunk, stoned, on acid or speed, or stone sober, Bo went into 28 with his eyes open to the fact that leaving eyewitnesses could easily exacerbate his tenuous freedom as a felon. But didn't the amounts of money involved in his day-job schemes elevate them to criminal felony fraud? Why would he care about one felony over another? Perhaps it's because, throughout history, he'd been protected from consequences of most of his crimes but what was intended within 28 was on another level altogether.

When contemplating how/why things went down, one must consider the impact of as many factors as possible. On the surface, it's easy to find cause to consider the killers went in with something far below murder in mind, and that a massive up-tick in scope and violence was the result of unexpected setbacks (such as Tina screaming and Johnny and Dana interfering). However, no matter how one downplays the initial intent of the killers, there are far too many facts that are more than mere stumbling blocks in any theory:

Numerous reports of Marty threatening murder (including at the bar shortly before he began killing); Vast amounts of restraint tape brought to the scene; The use of Marty's hammer is clear indication they went in armed with much more than a sexual assault in mind; etc. I believe there's far more evidence indicating murder was the intended outcome of their Marty Party, and that the other victims were the result of shitty planning and their brainless, selfish, sociopathic pursuits.

As for coke, it was still a very elite drug. Mainly white rich bitches used it, and it carried about as much stigma as pot-- except those that used cocaine were relatively bulletproof due to their social stature and ability to afford a lawyer. Marty was financially in deep kimchi, and there's never been murmurs of any of the key players using, holding, or selling coke. Even the Likely Lad, Bo, was only connected to pot by family whom he exploited by using them to hold/ship packages. If you're at all familiar with the research I've done tying Bo to Rini to Larner to RFK to Panamanian coke to CIA/DOJ smuggling to Iran/Contra, I've never said Bo was a major player or even a coke pusher. However, long before I connected Bo to large-scale DOJ coke smuggling, I highlighted how fucked FBI is by protecting murderers and ongoing serial killers in a game of PYA. They initially protect/pay them in the misguided belief these low-level stooges will offer key evidence in a Big Investigation, but end up covering their asses when they realize they've been taken for a ride by a fuck-knob clearly smarter than they are. If anything, I believe Bo was a low-level stooge whose level of protection by LE had little to do with what information he could proffer. I believe it also had much more to do with being protected by cops who were in on his crimes, just as they were with Bo's daddy, Jimmy Rini.

As for the complexity of the staging, I just meandered into that territory earlier this morning. Sorry, I'm dealing with the bad tooth again, so it's difficult for me to keep the threads of my mind untangled today. It looks like I wrote it on the 28 FB page, so I'll paste it below and edit it down to a more succinct and direct reply:

=====================================

I believe most, if not all, use of electrical wire was postmortem staging. It certainly was with John and Dana, and multiple indicators (including petechiae near the bindings, and an irrefutable understanding of many aspects of the chain of events) also suggest all the wire on Sue was also applied after death.

The panties- AND bra- used in the gag are the tip of the iceberg on how over-the-top the original staging of Sue was. For better or worse, whoever covered Sue long after she was posed undid much of the staging, but it doesn't take a big brain to figure it out with what remains in the CS photos.

The staging of Sue absolutely negates the abusing of J&D's corpses and firmly re-establishes Sue as primary target. I also believe someone other than Marty came up with the staging (Bo, as he's the best candidate for many other reasons than he's the only other male we KNOW was in the house). But the absolute stupidity of the staging gives one pause to consider all the conflicts involved:

The sexual humiliation which permeates the staging of Sue... Did Marty pose her? If Bo did it, how could he have such anger towards a woman he'd barely met? Or was the staging simply so moronic that the message behind that stupidity supplants all else? In other words, was the staging so egregious it indicates the killer(s) responsible were simply not experienced or capable of understanding the subtleties of staging? Were they just too damned stupid to see contradictions in their work? If John Douglas hadn't been lied to by those-on-the-ground, had he seen the details and conflicting messages in the murders and staging, he would have had a field day profiling these losers.
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby budrfligh » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:47 pm

The photo of the station wagon, under cover of the tress, perhaps under there they paused to grab Tina as they avoided helicopters and skulked out of town?
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Re: Could Tina have been held in a nearby dwelling?

Postby budrfligh » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:53 pm

Also Dougiepoo would know a bit about staging a crime scene.
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