Newbies Ask the 'Experts'

important threads and features, particularly for newbies

Re: Newbies Ask the 'Experts'

Postby dmac » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:19 pm

Haven't read Vonnegut since I was in my Twenties. I bought all I could find, including Venus On the Half Shell by his alter-ego, Kilgore Trout.

As for Tina, any belief she left 28 alive has to get past many obstructions. First is Marty's own words in his confession that Tina left 28 'incapacitated'. That Tina and the boys were not the target but, rather, collateral damage. Of course, there's all the comments and the evidence the killers did exactly what Marty said in his interview: Took Tina over the back bridge. Plus Sue's pink pantsuit found there, in the swimming hole. There's the reality of Marty, Bo, and Dee leaving at noon on Sunday, ON CAMERA, sneaking out the back way to "Go To Reno" when in fact Tina was already long dead and they were on their way to Camp Eighteen.

Look at Loon's account of the floorboards in the Playhouse being impossibly torn up and what she's actually doing is saying she also knew Tina was killed inside 28, but that she was innocent of murder and the Playhouse lie solely implicated Marty and Bo in Tina's murder.

In the totality of evidence, including their own words, as well as what independent review of the crime scene and other accounts of their words and behavior before and after the murders, I find it nearly impossible to come to any other conclusion than Tina was killed in 28 and the killers dumped her miles away and hours later in order to hide the true target and motive of the murders.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com

These users thanked the author dmac for the post:
LynnieLasVegas (Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:24 pm)
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3212
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 709 times
Been thanked: 2667 times

Re: Newbies Ask the 'Experts'

Postby budrfligh » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:42 pm

In the therapist tapes it seems the ONLY remorse was over Tina. I don't think it bothered him to kill the object of his rage ( Sue) or an obstruction to the target ( Dana &Johnny) but the little girl stuck with him. He tosses truth into lies ie: swinging bridge at every turn. They were planning on blaming her father to throw off the scent from the jump. Personally I rather hope it was quick and painless considering what occured in the living room that evening.

These users thanked the author budrfligh for the post:
dmac (Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:56 am)
budrfligh
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:51 am
Has thanked: 230 times
Been thanked: 87 times

Re: Newbies Ask the 'Experts'

Postby dmac » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:33 pm

While making a list of things to update on my "theory" thread, it occurred to me Picasso falls into the 'suspect' category, which almost makes all the art talk relevant (if still not palatable to most).

I once had a big argument with a coworker. Posed with the Q, "who is your definition of 'The Renaissance Man' ", I chose Da Vinci. His choice was Michelangelo, and I felt not only was the Big M known most significantly for his art (paint, sculpting, poetry, etc), he was a notorious bastard. Da V, on the other hand, was a brilliant artist and innovator on most every level of art technology he dabbled in, but was peerless when it came to widespread interests he mastered, such as his pursuits in music, math, earth science, mapmaking, astronomy, and the breadth and depth of intelligence his remaining invention drafts only hint at. Hell, Leo's best known for a hint of a misleading smile, the Mona Lisa. People still argue what the smile implies, who the subject was (x-rays suggest an amalgam), etc. LdV worked on that portrait for 15 years, considering it unfinished at his death.

PICASSO, you ask? The Mona Lisa was stolen from the Louvre in 1911. Poor Pablo Picasso was a main suspect. Apparently, never called an asshole.



Seriously. Look it up.

And to think that bit of info came unjarred from my thick skull while considering the 880 Daisy brought to and taken from 28.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3212
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 709 times
Been thanked: 2667 times

Re: Newbies Ask the 'Experts'

Postby dmac » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:11 pm

dmac wrote:Jan Albin appears to be the catalyst for the evictions of Frank Davis / Martel in 13, and Matosich / Kautzer in 15. Their being drug pushers was quoted by PCSO as the cause for their removals from Keddie. However, if Jan was, indeed, having an affair with Doug Thomas then evicting the dealers (who were Doug's own neighbors when he lived in 28) would logically run counter to DT's own protection of these same scum.


I've been thinking far too controlled and opposite of logic. Say one dealer in Plumas (EQ, Graegle, Twain, Greenville) obeyed a DT PCSO cartel. Does that mean all will? No, and it amplifies the bullshit idea that, once a new LE regime came to town (DOUG THOMAS), any scheme was passed over? Any new Top Cop could maneuver build new channels. Those that never existed prior?

The demise of Abernethy was supposedly a "good ol boy" put out to pasture, but it was done very publicly by the fraud, Sly Dougie Thomas. Delerium Thom Tremens.

I did a robust expose of all sheriffs and the scat I could stick to them. I've deduced Doug Thomas is behind the Keddie Koverup, and he may as well have assassinated Abernethy with his own repugnant campaign lies.

My 'robust' expose on past PCSO sheriffs, which I posted YEARS AGO, is now too shallow to dampen most bare feat. It still is key in proving PCSO was a corrupt organization over decades of 'sheriffs' and strategic, planned, ongoing malfeasance, but Doug Thomas is up to his cunt in blood and...

Let's tie what we can to Thomas and PCSO and cut all the others loose as "not known" or "not complying" . When you're a corrupt cop, you lie. Lies catch up.

Dougie was known to love the mass killer, Marty. Not Marty's friends? I have enough info on Sly doug ThomBitch to penetrate the last of his auctioned anus.

Doug Thomas and his PCSO fucked an entire class, time, ongoing lie about the people of Plumas County. Strong men and women who were forced to bow to the terms of corrupt regimes? It all stops when one voice cuts through the silence.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3212
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 709 times
Been thanked: 2667 times

Re: Newbies Ask the 'Experts'

Postby Sheepish » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:29 pm

dmac wrote:Haven't read Vonnegut since I was in my Twenties. I bought all I could find, including Venus On the Half Shell by his alter-ego, Kilgore Trout.

As for Tina, any belief she left 28 alive has to get past many obstructions. First is Marty's own words in his confession that Tina left 28 'incapacitated'. That Tina and the boys were not the target but, rather, collateral damage. Of course, there's all the comments and the evidence the killers did exactly what Marty said in his interview: Took Tina over the back bridge. Plus Sue's pink pantsuit found there, in the swimming hole. There's the reality of Marty, Bo, and Dee leaving at noon on Sunday, ON CAMERA, sneaking out the back way to "Go To Reno" when in fact Tina was already long dead and they were on their way to Camp Eighteen.


I've said this before, so sorry for the broken record effect, but I see a big problem with you logic here. The 'incapacitated' line comes from the therapists account of Marty's confession, and you seem to take that as meaning dead, but the very next part of what the therapist related seems to contradict that. Here's the section in its entirety:

"I remember asking him why didn't the child run away and he indicated that he incapacitated her in some way so that she could not run away. I didn't know what that meant and when I tried to pursue it he went off on a different subject. I also asked was there screaming, was there any of that going on, he said there was noise, there was commotion, but it was in the middle of nowhere, no one would have heard it anyway".

He said she was incapacitated, but also that she was killed in the middle of nowhere where no one could hear the noise she made. The position of Cabin 28 in close proximity to the other cabins in no way fits the description of in the middle of nowhere where no one would have heard the noise Marty admits was present. This also makes no account for those left living in 28 who would have been mere feet from where it took place.

I get that you need to believe Tina died in 28, but taking the first part of a sentence as fact while ignoring the later part makes no sense. I can see taking the therapist interview as either truth, or as another one of Marty's stories, but taking the first part of a sentence as true and the later part as fiction seems sloppy reasoning. If we're going by Marty's words in the confession Tina died outside of 28.
Sheepish
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 1:48 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Newbies Ask the 'Experts'

Postby dmac » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:17 pm

Look at the holes in your own logic:

Marty said she was incapacitated. In some way. When pressed, he moved on.

Tina and Sue were the first victims, attacked in the same room the killers targeted when they entered, in the dark. Your logic is they left Tina unharmed and not taped/tied up, as Sue, Dana, and Johnny were? OF COURSE she was bound! So, when pressed further, he didn't simply say "taped and gagged" or whatever, he didn't (or psychologically COULDN'T) answer that simple Q. Something else happened that he couldn't bring himself to discuss despite at one point blankly stating he "killed the girls but not the boys"

Marty is hardly alone when it comes to folks saying nobody heard anything because it was "out in the middle of nowhere": Keddie is, the location of the murders isn't. And people DID hear things. So did animals. And Marty and Bo were so worried, they ran back to 26, changed clothes, and went back to the bar to re-establish their alibi.

If you want to tear it apart, Marty is lying (or at least half-lying) in every instance.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3212
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 709 times
Been thanked: 2667 times

Re: Newbies Ask the 'Experts'

Postby budrfligh » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:26 pm

Could Tina have been alive but unconscious upon leaving 28? I have read some discussion on this and I have no idea but my gut tells me she was not. She was contained/ secreted away for quite some time b4 the skulking out of Keddie to " Reno" the next day. I am certain that they weren't leaving her tied up overnight considering the other collateral damage. It simply doesn't fit the profile.
budrfligh
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:51 am
Has thanked: 230 times
Been thanked: 87 times

Re: Newbies Ask the 'Experts'

Postby dmac » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:40 pm

They left Keddie at about high noon on Sunday, Tina was dumped from the back of Dee's station wagon at C18. Where do you think the pervs/ sex sadists/ killers had her between, say, 4 AM (I actually think the killers left with her body closer to 2:30-3:00) and noon?

Evidence strongly suggests the killers were at the river that night. Sue's nightgown is not a tip-off nor a red herring. WHY THE F ARE WE IGNORING THE SIGNIFICANCE OF WHAT IS ASSUMED TO BE SUE'S SEXY PARTY PANTSUIT? Don't ignore Sue's sexiness and her absolute need to be HUMAN, DESIRED.

Logic strongly indicates the killers had to get Tina out of Keddie and temp-stashed her close-by so they could drive out of Keddie later in the morning and retrieve her. This is a shit hypothesis I supposed in 2011, so find a way to pick it apart.

When I found the "back bridge", I instinctively knew it was the "out". At the time on that forum, others were arguing it was impossible to get Tina out of Keddie- alive or dead. Impossible.

The killers left C26 at my scientific guess of 11:56 am. They went the BACK way out of Keddie in Dee's car, then hid under a huge tree as the CA-DOJ chopper circled above. NOON on SUNDAY. No pigs at the bridge, they grabbed Tina's corpse.

I hate to say it again, but I do believe B&M took Tina's body over the swinging bridge. Dumped her in a shallow foliage-covered gorge just next to a rarely-used dirt access road. Hours later, they drove/hid from the chopper and got out of Keddie. They drove half a mile from the Keddie access to this dirt road.

Tina was dead and would remain dead. Instead of hanging a right to her corpse, they hung a left and decided to test Law Enforcement. They went to the Meeks home, said they were going to Reno, then u-turned back to Tina's body. No cops trailing. No pigs at the mouth of Keddie. They knew they were SAFE, so puled off onto the dirt road (still there), shovd Tina's body under whatever the fuck they had, and drove to CAMP EIGHTEEN.

They grabbed her corpse, dumped Tina Louise Sharp at a place only ONE of those assfucks in the car knew. Not Loon, not Boubede.

Tina's placement at C18 is down to who 'placed' her body. That's Marty, Dee, and a couple others I won't (yet) nod towards.

I don't know if there's a profile for "multiple psycho asshole killers" to fit, but I don't see Tina as anything but dead when she left 28. There's no reasonable explanation even barely indicating she was alive which fits the scenario as currently known.

I want to know the significance of Sue's sexy pink dress. Is it another orange herring? Hell NO! It's still prhaps the most misunderstood artifact- only because we barely know of it and haven't digested it.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3212
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 709 times
Been thanked: 2667 times

Re: Newbies Ask the 'Experts'

Postby dmac » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:50 am

I wrote a post last night that I deleted this morning. Hopefully few saw it, as I was the worse for wear. Went to a concert, had a couple beers. I'm such a lightweight!

The gist of my post remains true, but I worded it more poorly than usual. It's not a new idea from me or anyone else, but it's about the crushing sexism present in this case, and how it was handled, and how America has far more than rape, pillaging, wholesale greed, destruction of renewable resources for profit, the slaughter of Native Americans, slavery, racism, and Donald Trump to be incredibly ashamed of.

Sexism.

Indications are pretty clear Sue came from a troubled childhood, married young to a bully asshole, in a society within a society: the military. Americans aren't the only ones guilty of being assholes, yet we believe ourselves to be innocent of the most base and basic faults. The military systemically uses their members and families as a huge "go fuck you" experiment. Many of my family and relations in the military were eventually destroyed by incredibly rare cancers due to the military's longstanding policy of illegally dumping the most toxic of waste. Hell, even the American public were enticed to their deaths in Vegas to watch the atomic ground tests, nevermind the fact the first downwinder info from the earliest uses proved catastrophic hell would be unleashed on most any organism in its path.

The military does not care about women or kids. They are a costly nuisance, other than the hopes they can draw more suckers into the system from their family farming. Sue, like so many even today, had no resources when it came to reporting abuse. Military reaction would be to ignore, lie, ostracize.

I can't speak to her mindset or her abilities as a human to stand up for herself, her native strengths and weaknesses. For instance, I do absolutely believe she intentionally meandered around America the last time she and the kids were kicked to the curb by an incestuous piece of human filth. She was slowly approaching ports of call, probably hoping for assistance and a bit of help. I think the key fact is she was expecting to turn around and head back to Bad Daddy James.

Sue's divorce lawyer told us (contrary to PCSO info) she had barely begun divorce proceedings at the time of the murders, and that nothing was set. James hadn't been notified, which is kinda the first thing that happens once the action is truly begun: Papers get served. Therefore, one may conclude that a full year after leaving an abusive nightmare situation, Sue had finally and furtively approached the idea of divorce. (As an aside, think about how devastating that is to the idea Sue was trying to cheer-lead Loon. That threadbare motive has always stunk of Marilyn's manipulation of Marty).

Despite her detachment from her kids and, apparently, most of society, Sue had barely found a way to eek out a survivable existence away from a complete monster.

Sue had already given up her youth to a lifestyle she was finally shedding. She'd missed the Sixties, the Sexual Revolution, the burning of bras. At the cost of her kids, she was having a taste of life. In the profiles, her behavior put everyone in 28 at high risk. Her behavior after Tina was molested at the Downtown Trailer Park not only proves the risk diagnosis true, it shows the depth of her detachment from her youngest daughter.

At the bottom of all this, the point is had she been male, she would have been applauded for knocking as many boots as possible. That double-standard is a critical component in the society that fosters crimes like Keddie.

Despite how far you may think America has come since 1981, you're lying to yourself. Little has changed. For instance, Trump's example is to triple the gender pay scale gap within 'our' White House. Bigotry, misogyny, and and outright hatred is flourishing in America to the point we elected our own Hitler, too stupid to be able to deliver on his own death punch. And I don't mean the Jim Jones Flavor-Aid America is gulping down.

The sad fact is we've squandered the Constitution, and our supposed freedom, by being absolute losers.

Wanna know why most people around the world think of Americans as greedy, moronic fools? It's because we are.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com

These users thanked the author dmac for the post:
LynnieLasVegas (Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:02 am)
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3212
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 709 times
Been thanked: 2667 times

Re: Newbies Ask the 'Experts'

Postby budrfligh » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:25 am

I tend to agree with your politics but back to the pantsuit. I had thought it unlike Sue from photos but considering she was perhaps experiencing freedom and exploring her sexuality the pantsuit fits. I have long thought Sue was Marilyn's nemesis. She was fresh blood in a pretty nailed down community. Jealousy over male attention being drawn away from Loon seems very likely even if the guy wasn't her interest. Sounds a bit like high school girls mean and jealous bs but Loon still isn't very mature. I am not sure how she goaded the killers into this frenzy but my gut says she did it. Why take it? Trophy seems adequate enough but then realized it was too risky she got rid of it. That outfit may have symbolized Loon's jealousy and contempt. People tend to underestimate females when it comes to murder. Women can be the most vindictive creatures on earth and very, very nasty regarding revenge.
budrfligh
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:51 am
Has thanked: 230 times
Been thanked: 87 times

Previous

Return to for newbies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests