Twisted, I know

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Twisted, I know

Postby dd1 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:19 pm

Okay, so I have a rather bizarre question. Dana's autopsy report says his cords were unbuttoned and unzipped 2 inches. Was this part of the staging that didn't come into play, happen in a struggle, or for another reason, like the boys came upstairs to use the bathroom?
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Re: Twisted, I know

Postby dmac » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:23 pm

Particularly considering the sexual aggression demonstrated in Sue's gag and, in particular, the original positioning of her body in the staging, it's easy to conclude there may be a sexual component to Johnny's pants being partially 'pulled down' and to Dana's pants being unbuttoned and partially unzipped.

In Johnny's case, his sweat pants and layers beneath (underwear, Sheila's gym shorts) were all held up by elastic tension, which gave way to the friction from being dragged while being rolled over. It was also like laminar flow: The outside pants lowest, and the underwear twisted/pulled down the least.

As for Dana, from the Autopsy Report:

    CLOTHING

    The subject wears heavy brown above-the-ankle length hiking boots. They show waffle-type soles and are labeled "Vibrum" on the soles. The subject wears sweat socks which show thick orange and thinner blue stripes about their tops. He also wears blue corduroy type Levi jeans and the top button of the jeans is unbuttoned and the zipper is down approximately 2 inches. The jeans show patch work about the right knee, and areas of ripping and holes are present on the right lower leg and in a zone of patching just below the right knee. He also wears a sweater with long sleeves and a crew type neck. It is generally red and dark blue colored over the neck, shoulder, and arm portion down to the level of the elbows, and this blue is separated from the red of the remainder of the sweater by multiple lines of light blue, green, yellow, orange and red. The lines are approximately 3/8 of an inch apart. They in turn are separated by thin l/8 inch blue lines that occur over the anterior upper portion of the sweater extending down the anterior arms to the elbow and also occur posteriorly and laterally. The upper portions of the pants are partly blood soaked, especially posteriorly, where the blood is still moist.

First off, "Vibrum" is a brand of sole, not boot. Usually high-end in some way (durability, oil resistance, etc.), they were often seen on hiking boots which, in 1981, were usually of better quality than even those sold as top-flight today. I believe police footwear (boots) still often use Vibum.

In high school (I'm Johnny's age), I had several pairs of Levis and Brittania jeans, and two pairs of cords. One pair was Levis, and the other pair was more plush/dress-quality. Back then, Levi's were barely starting to rebound from the hit they took in the disco era, when the jeans market was dominated by kitschy design by short-lived labels like LAPD. They were still relatively inexpensive, but the button-fly pants weren't as dominant. I do recall Levis' snap-button pants weren't too reliable. Back then, two of my snap-button Levis (including my cords) fit fine in the waist, but ALWAYS came undone. I always had to wear a belt with them because just sitting down, taking a deep breath, or throwing a ball was enough to pop my waist open.

Given what they went through, and how their bodies were moved around, I don't see anything sexual in the odd positions of the boys' clothing. Dana was also placed facing down. My bet is the killers never noticed in the dark, and there's too good a chance Dana' multiple layers of outerwear hid it as well. A completely different scenario to Sue.

Considering Johnny's wallet was found behind the couch by Sue's Corner, one should ask why the killers would have gone through his wallet, and what they'd hoped to find. Given Sue's purse and wallet two feet away and in plain sight, Johnny's wallet is hardly part of some staged robbery. And, shouldn't all items found on the bodies (& in the clothing) be listed? Where's the loose change, the chewing gum? The keys?
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Re: Twisted, I know

Postby dd1 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:29 pm

Well, yes. I would think there be listed everything in the deceased's pockets, purse, wallets, backpacks, and whatever else they may have had on or near them, but we are not talking about standard police procedures in this case. We have what we are meant to have...red herrings and confusion. IMO
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Re: Twisted, I know

Postby dmac » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:31 pm

I was also asking aloud if it's standard practice / GOOD practice to inventory items taken from clothing, just as Rooney listed tape and knots and bra (but NOT panties?!)

I understand ME Rooney did a crappy job, regardless of if he was rushed. I also understand Sue wouldn't have much on her other than clothing with no pockets. I also suss that Johnny's wallet was behind the couch, for whatever reason. But what about the rest of the items that should have been in the clothing the boys were wearing, and even perhaps in the clothing (bloody jacket on floor, sweater on tank of toilet) recovered at the scene? It was all CLEARLY removed from the scene and taken into evidence, so why was it not on Stoy's list, the MEs reports, or Forcino's report? The blood-spattered denim shirt <worn by a killer and> staged beneath the knife and hammer? Why was it not listed on ANY of Stoy's evidence reports?! We know Stoy's a corrupt turdbag, but Rooney wasn't associated with either Plumas County or toe DOJ. His known position was as ME for Sacramento County... three counties and 150 miles from cabin 28. Was he stupid, lazy, or corrupt?

Back to Forcino's field report (my emphasis added):

    I was at the scene for a short time before I went back to Quincy with Sqt.
    Brubaker to pick up another camera and investigation Kit. Sqt. Brubaker and I then went back to tho scene to assist with the investigation. I assisted in takinq the photographs for awhile and was advised by Assistant Sheriff Shanks and Sheriff Thomas that I was to Transport the bodies to Sacramento to the Coroners Office at 4400 V St. where the atopsies would be performed by Pathologist Dr.Rooney on 4-13-81. I transported and delivered the bodies to 4400 Y St. where I removed them from the body bags and tagged them for idenification.

    4-13-81 I attended the Atopsies which were performed by Dr. Rooney. I collected evidence as Dr. Rooney removed it from the bodies. I marked the evidence placed it in paper bags. I took photos of the evidence and the wounds as the Atopsies progressed.I finished my investigation at the Coroners office at approx 1930 hrs. I then delivered one item of evidence to DOJ Sacramento and started toward Redding to deliver the other items.

I know he delivered items such as bindings and the gag, etc., to be examined for oddities in knots, etc., but where's the contents of pockets? I believe Forcino was supposedly much more thorough than this report implies, and this report has all the earmarks of a cop doing "busy work" and filing a report that sounds dummied down. ("You're not going to file that. Write it again!" is a typical ploy in corrupt LE departments.) Few reports filed by Forcino have been seen outside of LE, but he's been credited with doing a lot of leg work later, but I can't help wondering if he was kept away from the crime scene during the most crucial period.

If items were removed from the bodies prior to being transport, they (obviously) should have been photographed and added to the report (STOY'S JOB). Even with these bodies being in the possession if PCSO, Forcino, and Rooney, nobody managed to inventory or photograph what was in the Vx pockets?!

As with NO PHOTOS of the basement (Johnny's room) and no report of anything below the main floor (other than a 'white dress' found by DT 'under the house', and the report of Story disproving Phil's acct by observing the water heater), n photos of anything from pockets? And, with Gamberg sending off ALL the CS negs he culd find and having nice, new 4x6 prints made, why have so many negs & photos of items Stoy listed on his reports simply vanished?
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Re: Twisted, I know

Postby dd1 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:53 pm

Alright, so just how deep are we willing to go in a discussion about LE's involvement in the cover-up? Because to my unsophisticated mind, if you are that involved in the cover-up you must be somehow involved in the crime itself.

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Re: Twisted, I know

Postby dmac » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:47 pm

I look at the coverup as a different crime to the murders. Again, multiple criminals involved, each with multiple agendas and motives.

► What do we KNOW? Crimely (CA-DOJ) conspired with members of PCSO (DT foremost, to our knowledge) to make sure the killers got off scot-free

► We KNOW DT was friends with Marty and Loon, et al.

► We know LE were in CYA mode, so they had to have common interests in order to fuck this case

► We know the DOJ were pushing CIA / Reagan / Bush coke and H through America, via deals set up by Hy Larner. Larner happens to be the same guy who hired Bo's defacto dad, Jim Rini, to be his muscle when Bo was pulling jobs with Rini in Chicago. Rini and Larner disappeared together, turned themselves in back-to-back a year later and testified in front of RFK back to back in DC.

There's a lot of very damning info coming to light about LE's involvement, and the words 'collusion' and 'cover-up' are no longer speculation. Not only that but the coverup was as stupid, sloppy, and blatant as the Loonibi, and falls apart as quickly. It's so bad that many people's first suspicions is that DT at least knew about it before Sheila, that not having SOP in place (such as screening all coming and going via Keddie's sole entry road) were intentional. These are easy conclusions to draw, but where's the facts?

Hell, it took five years of screaming for more than a few folks to believe me about the collusion and cover-up. What do I KNOW that all these criminal assholes had in common?

DRUGS.

Did DT call Crimely into Plumas to solve the murders, because of Bo's pedigree, or because of all the drugs LE and Marty's circle were pushing through Plumas? Logic and Occum's Razor dictates the latter. Were Crimely even prepared for Bo being mob? Their being on the DOJ mafia squad doesn't mean they knew jack shit (or cared) about Bo or his history. Bottom line is if Crimely were there to make sure people got away with murder, they didn't need to know anything about Bo other than he was covered with the victims' blood. Listening to the interview with Bo it's perfectly clear they had no interest in his abundantly obvious participation in the murders. It's also clear it took half the interview for the fear to wear off and for Bo's balls to descend back to his Trump-tiny scrotum.

To further complicate matters is all the other corruption going on. The Board of Supervisors were a bad bunch and they'd just hired Baird McKnight as their first full-time atty. He was pure trash, as is his son. Baird Jr is still a big name in work I'm doing in investigations parallel / concurrent to the 28 murders. His gang of sicko criminals ran in circles that do NOT exclude them from involvement in 28's periphery.

What we've learned about Bo complicates matters further: Now that we know the US govt has Bo in two places at the same damned time, and being released from prison close to the Mollath home shortly before Lyn's murder, doesn't help. As we know, the Mollaths were/are powerful people, and certain aspects of her murder are consistent with a revenge/message hit. And to muddy things further, the family's involvement in law, publishing real estate, etc., isn't enough to outweigh the one label that's consistently been attached to Gary: DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS.

I know there was a conspiracy to screw this investigation, and to keep all the criminals involved- on both sides of the Thin Blue Line- free and clear. I've been able to uncover, connect, verify many things. I've also been able to post about, explain, and draw conclusions from the vast majority of my discoveries. What I haven't been able to share doesn't yet get us closer to knowing why Bo was in Plumas or what (if any) part his connections to the Chicago Outfit- much less Hyman 'Red' Larner's drug deals with Bush/Reagan- play in this clusterfuck of American Corruption.

When you get down to it, the common factor in the coverup isn't coke, it's GREED.
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Re: Twisted, I know

Postby dd1 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:04 pm

I just threw up in my mouth. After a brush & some mouthwash, I will re-read. WTF.
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Re: Twisted, I know

Postby dd1 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:41 pm

So Bo may have killed Lyn. Because of drugs? As a warning to Gary? Larner was no lightweight in the mob world and he obviously was smart enough to die of old age and not be murdered so why would he be dealing with a mess like Bo and by association Marty? What is the missing piece, damn it?! There is a disconnect between the murders and the cover-up. The murders, the staging, and the cover-up.
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Re: Twisted, I know

Postby dmac » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:02 pm

I can't place Bo in many places. Deb and I found him many places, most of which are disturbing.

Very quickly after Aus and I discovered Bo's true name and definite parts of his history, we kinda forked off. We'd found connections to the Outfit, but I think Aus went towards connections to the East Coast families while I stuck to Chicago. Actually, I just stuck to family, but I think it was Aus that first found the old article about Rini. The way we found info in 24 hours with crap resources back in '10 is astounding. Josh even posted something like, "Well DONE! That matches my info, it's him!" In fact, Josh lied continuously about what he had and what he knows.

Can I get back to you on this? What matters: Bo's info has been published for yonks on this site. I've connected Bo to Alvin to Rini to Ross to Red Waterfall to Hy Red Larner to the Outfit (Red was above Sam Giancana) to the CIA to DOJ to Bush as CIA head to REAGAN/Bush and IRAN/CONTRA to QUEEN'S ACCIDENT to DOJ to Crimely to PCSO to Cabin 28. FULL CIRCLE.

What matters is I connected Rini to Waterfall long before I learned Red's real name, and back then Hyman Larner had no web presence. Back then, on wiki, his name was Hy Lerner. Nobody on the web knew shit about Larner, and I learned Bo was connected to Larner as I read about it. Years YEARS later, Larner is now known as the quiet middleman between mafia coke and H and 1960s-70s CIA "secret ops" fundraising (although books that heavily feature Larner appeared in the '00s, it took years for that info to trickle onto the www)

I never claimed 28 was a mafia or drug hit. I connected a full fucking circle, but I never claimed connections between 28 and mafia. Anyone stating I did is a fool, a moron, or a Trump-quality liar.

I cannot see Hy Larner connecting with Bo after, say, 1975. Can you? I can show my math, but I never went so far as to say intelligent Hy Larner ever dealt with Bo. The ominous connection is so fucking bizarre, like the 2,000,000,000 other coincidences in the 28. And, of course, intelligent Red Larner was bight enough to be brought down in '58 by the likes of a moron like Rini.

Sorry I can't fully answer.right now My main point is I connected so many dots, yet have never claimed any insane direct connection.
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Re: Twisted, I know

Postby dd1 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:24 pm

Alright. Well I kind of figured the missing piece question was rhetorical but I'll add my .5%. I believe somehow the murders, staging and cover-up is all connected. That LE is involved up to their eyebrows. That drugs do indeed figure prominently. After hearing that Dana still hadn't wised up, was caught stealing money and "they" were going to send him to a more secure foster facility I wonder if he didn't play a bigger part in this tragedy.
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