Drugs

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Re: Drugs

Postby dmac » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:57 pm

It's been hashed and rehashed many times, but usually from the outside in, rather than from the cores (Marty, Loon, Bo, Dee, Tony, etc) to the networks and outer reaches of their supposed tentacles.

First and foremost, Marty seemed to be finding much humor in his new-found notoriety, and took his apparent understanding of the protection he was afforded by corrupt LE to such lengths as stomping on the very dicks he wanted up his ass. He'd gone from the ridiculously blatant lies he told LE scum, to being removed from the corner across from the Meeks, to calling around and threatening people of more to come. The ultimate slap to DT's face was running his mouth off while in lockup on the morning of the 18th. To scream about killing Sue and making it all too clear drugs was his motive is just waaaaay too pat, smug, and B.S.-smelly for me.

Wade's over at 26 the morning of the 12th, and leaves at nearly the same exact time as Marty, Bo, Dee- whomever was in Dee's wagon. That was at noon. So we're supposed to believe not only the murders were over drugs but Sue was still the target of the attacks; Marty must not have found at 28 whatever he was after; that within less than six days, Marty came to believe Wade was now responsible for the whereabouts of the drugs?

Nothing changes the fact Johnny was the supposed (albeit very minor) 'druggie' in 28, yet the killers go after Sue. Ri-i-i-i-i-ight. They knew Johnny lived downstairs, yet the attacks still began in the girls' BR. What ties does Wade have to Johnny? It's always Richard and Johnny. Mind, of course, our knowledge of these interpersonal networks has been molded for decades by Mama. But is their any single thread tying Johnny to a perceived 28-related drug rip-off that survives scrutiny? Sheila recently said on the People show that Johnny and Marty were apparent enemies because of Johnny's 'smart mouth', yet Sheila has often said she didn't know Marty and barely knew Loon, so she must be parroting someone. Any guesses who...?

Isn't Loon the main (if not SOLE) source that Johnny and Marty were enemies? It comes from the same storybook as when Marty called Tina a whore, a story Mama was witness to and sometimes confirms, sometimes denies. Loon was doing all she could to distance herself from her role inside 28, tacking conflicting stories onto the core Loonibi she and Marty and Bo and, to an extent, Dee Lake had agreed upon. Suddenly, Bo had asked Sue out himself on Sat, and was the one upset about it at the bar after being turned down. Then she changed that to Marty telling her to knock on 28's door and ask Sue, and Marty being the one who was increasingly livid at the non-existent slight. According to Loon, Marty hates all women, and especially her and Sue. But Loon doesn't know Sue. Wait, yes she does, great friends. Nope, barely knew her from tea functions. Seriously, she said she knew Sue over tea. FFS, anybody have a set of cuffs to spare?

I think much of the meltdown on the 18th was Marty seriously fucking up and being alarmingly less and less stable or coherent. He was increasingly testing the depths of protection he'd been afforded by LE, and being in lockup that night must have been very incongruous with his new belief set. God knows what substances helped put him there the night before, but he was still up and at 'em when Wade showed up. Instead of Marty realizing there were limits to what PCSO were going to allow him to get away with in the wake of his quad, he decided to lash out in the most profoundly self-incriminating way possible: Confessing while threatening a known associate at the top of ones lungs while in custody of the sheriff who'd just wrongfully cleared him of murder.

He was a tad self destructive. He'd probably been picked up that night for his own protection, for the protection of PCSO's ongoing perversion of justice, and was going to get <another> stern lecture / counseling session from his pal, DT, in the morning, after he'd slept if off and cooled down. Instead, it was the last straw and DT turned into Brian Dennehy, giving Rambo the ride to the county line. Actually, Marde took Dee's advice and "caught the bus,Gus", to Bo's love nest at the beautiful downtown Arcadia Hotel, Klamath Falls.

Two days later, Marty was in Reno, talking not about his wife or their troubles, but the "extreme bitch", Sue. The following week, he shows up sans appointment, and confesses to the murders, saying it was Sue as target, it was about her fucking his marriage, and that the others had to die just for witnessing what happened.

For me to believe Sue was a target of any drug angle, someone has to tie Marty's outburst to something real, tangible. Connect Sue to drugs. Hell, connect real drugs to 28. Note the way Marty'd already tried to tie the murders to a drug hit, even discounting to Crimely the methods he'd used in the murders as incongruous to methods used in a drug hit.

So far, the motives of this case have always been rumored as either sex or drugs or, yes, even rock and roll. Thus far, sexual rage towards Sue, is the only motive proved out by facts. What does Sue's supposed interference in Marty's crumbling marriage have to do with sex?
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Re: Drugs

Postby joe_mcplumber » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:02 pm

When people present theories like this the first thing i do is try to construct a picture of it actually happening, from my perspective and given the larger context as i experienced it. Which is amongst the many reasons i thought it unlikely for Dee and Wade to have successfully distributed drugs at "many" locations between Oroville and Quincy. The canyon could be very inhospitable at any of the likely "stops" and the likelihood of either guy being familiar with the inhabitants diminishes dramatically once you get beyond Twain. And Wade would've almost certainly have been an unfamiliar face, which just isn't advisable for such activities. But i digress, and i didn't want to do that.

When i was thinking about Johnny being the target i was thinking about the boys still being in their coats, and perhaps getting shanghaied as they approached the cabin. Then i realized that was inconsistent with premeditation, and that it's unlikely Marty took a hammer and medical tape to the bar with him. But my post was already posted.

Just explaining myself. Sorry for spouting. It just really seems eerie, the specifics of Marty's tantrum perhaps explaining the otherwise inexplicable behavior of LE from the moment they arrived on scene. THAT'S whose motives i really want to understand because that, in large part, is how i would define justice and closure at this point.

I think Sheila said something similar in the People thing.
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Re: Drugs

Postby meankitty » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:55 pm

dmac wrote:........................................
Isn't Loon the main (if not SOLE) source that Johnny and Marty were enemies? It comes from the same storybook as when Marty called Tina a whore, a story Mama was witness to and sometimes confirms, sometimes denies...............

This is from Dmac's post on Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:57 pm, and there is a problem here. I've read every one of Mrs. Meeks post several times, and she NEVER denied the story of Marty calling Tina a whore. Marilyn did back off from it, however. I did include some of Marilyn's and Mrs. Meeks posts together in the same documet when they got into an argument after her revelation. I did this so I wouldn't have to flip back and forth between the documents, and apparently I didn't mark things clear enough as to who said what. This is from "evolution of a revelation"

Marilyn
Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: my new theory
I'm terribly sorry richards mother, I just don't remember studying at my cabin. If that is true it had to have been in the latter part of March for Bo to be there.

I have been really thinking hard about something though. It has to do with a remark Marty made. I misread a bad conotation into it. The remark was; If they are old enough to bleed, they're old enough to breed. If you stop and think about it, it's true. It's just a tacky way of saying it. A girl can get pregnate as young as 9 if she has started her period, consequently they can breed. I think that's what he ment when he said that. It is a bad way of saying something like that and I agree it should'nt be said at all.

Back to Marty knowing Sue. We knew the Seabolts better than anyone out there, other than the kids. Of the Sharp family we knew Tina, Ricky, and Greg more than the rest. We did'nt know Shiela at all and I knew Sue in passing. There was just that one or maybe two altercations between Marty and Johnny. We did'nt know Dana at all. And of the Meeks family, I only knew Wade from school and Dee's house, and I only knew richards mother from the learning center and possibly a class as she says. I'm sorry, I just don't remember that class, at that time of year. In the fall of 81 I took a sociology class. Is that the class?

+++++++++++
Mr's Meeks
RICHARDS MOTHER posted Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:01 am Post subject:
i don't know the dates we were there.....just know over a period of time we went to your house
your right about martys remark it never should have been said....i was there when he said it.....when tina walked out of your house, he had a few nasty things to say about her and what she needed. i made the statment that she was only a child, he looked at me and smircked, laugh and stated his thoughts.....sorry, there was no mistake on what he was refering to
the class wasn't in the fall of 81..if it had of been marty or bo wouldn't have been there ....that would have been after the murders, and they didn't stay in town long after that
i don't think sue was lying about asking to go out with bo...
now you say you didn't know any of the meeks family....well that sure funny...we studyed at my house quite often...you knew every one in my family....wade more than any one else, i know before you moved into my house after the murders, you had already managed to put your hooks into him
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Re: Drugs

Postby duffyman » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:03 am

"Over the years a lot of people have said things like, "well if they were selling drugs, why were they all so poor?" .. small time dealers I've known aren't wealthy because they're either paid in drugs or spend the money they make on drugs, moreso as their habit develops. So they might have been moving larger amounts, to pay for the smaller amounts they either used or sold on the side. Just sayin."

Ausie,

Having lived in a rural county in the 60s and 70s with law enforcement deeply involved in the drug and prostitution trade, I can give you another perspective on why dealers don't always have money. In my area, the dealers were largely people the police had picked up on possession and were told if they wanted to stay out of up the butt prison, they better start dealing. They were not payed anything but the privilege of being allowed to walk around. If they complained they went to jail, or were found face down in a ditch, or not found at all.
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Re: Drugs

Postby meankitty » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:08 pm

dmac wrote:Drugs must be a major concern for the motive of the LE coverup. PCSO were dealers and handlers- at least DT and his henchmen. Why do I get multiple accounts of being arrested only if the weed wasn't PCSO ordained? Or an open squad trunk for after-school goodies? How the hell do multiple accounts of the same behavior surface over a five year period, 30 years after the murders?
There is something I would like to know. If they were selling from the squad car, where was it parked and what days and times was it happening? Basically what I'd like to know is-----would I have been able see something? I know where I usually went in Quincy during that time in and out of school, should I have been a witness to "open squad car trunk for after school goodies?"
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Re: Drugs

Postby Ausgirl » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:19 am

duffyman wrote:"Over the years a lot of people have said things like, "well if they were selling drugs, why were they all so poor?" .. small time dealers I've known aren't wealthy because they're either paid in drugs or spend the money they make on drugs, moreso as their habit develops. So they might have been moving larger amounts, to pay for the smaller amounts they either used or sold on the side. Just sayin."

Ausie,

Having lived in a rural county in the 60s and 70s with law enforcement deeply involved in the drug and prostitution trade, I can give you another perspective on why dealers don't always have money. In my area, the dealers were largely people the police had picked up on possession and were told if they wanted to stay out of up the butt prison, they better start dealing. They were not payed anything but the privilege of being allowed to walk around. If they complained they went to jail, or were found face down in a ditch, or not found at all.


Hi duffyman, cheers for that different perspective... wow, those were some scary cops in your neck of the woods, hey.
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Re: Drugs

Postby budrfligh » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:22 pm

MK in the 80's drugs were being imported byprivate planes largely from Columbia. It was extremely common. I doubt LE was dealing from their squads but more likely protecting shipments. The utube video of the sheriff of Maricopa was quite enlightening on LE's part in the drug trade.
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Re: Drugs

Postby Dogfur » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:00 pm

A timely spec rant for Marderer's birthday:

Here 36 years later to the day our victims were last seen alive we still have unnatural chunks of info missing within what little info we do have - So I'm giving an anniversary agreement with alot of Dmac's theory-in my mind this is because of the coverup of these crimes and the relationship with law enforcement. It cannot be ignored that all the Keddie traffic that is referenced as 'drug' dealing, using, etc...had little or nothing to do with the Sharps and Dana. MartyLoonBoDee w a dash of TonyG, Frankmike and Martell, Chuck & Henry, Steve wandering around all spun out, Spang stopping to observe traffic & burn one, Carl & Michelle's van, Ron & Paula - all mentioned in close proximity to the crime site, the former residence of the Sheriff of Plumas County. But apparently 2 teenagers might have dabbled w/beers & weed and rumored 'black beauties' (wtf is that by the way?) and it's the most discussed drug connection to this case?

No, the info we've had access to is partial & compromised. With all the above names circling & bubbling about the Back Door Bar, the dorms, the resort restaraunt was most certainly a hub of illicit substance activity. All those people & eyeballs, someone talked and it got removed or hidden by official(s) at the time. A couple of concise statements from the Albins could clear up a lot of misconceptions (or confirm speculation) but we have scant info other than a couple mentions on a timeline. Mollath's murky shitty tragedy gets mentioned, But not one statement about anything from him anywhere. Sly recently lived in the house where a triple murder and kidnapping took place, but an entire floor including the bedroom of one of the victims evades crime scene photography, and almost no mention (except from crazed Phil, who Stoy assures us didn't write anything in the basement so we don't need to look).

No, serious shit is missing from the records on this case-we either don't have access, or it disappeared. This wasn't just lousy police and bad investigating.
Drugs were involved. Just probably not with the victims. This investigation got screwed 36 years ago to the hour by the Sheriff of Plumas county, because he lived in Cabin 28.

And somewhere along the line he screwed up real bad, and then kept it up.
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Re: Drugs

Postby dd1 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:12 pm

Amazing how a date unrelated to you can haunt you so, isn't it? I agree dogfur. No pictures of the basement/Jonny's room is unfecken believable. Either the police work was SO bad that they just eyeballed it, saw it looked like nothing happened down there and blew it off OR there was a nefarious reason....

At this point I'm not sure.
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Re: Drugs

Postby dmac » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:25 pm

Sorry I haven't been around much. When the site started acting up, so was my stomach. I've been to the doc more times in the past couple weeks than the previous decade combined. Nothing's sorted yet, and the only news I've had thus far is bad news. I think the stomach issue wasn't food poisoning, but a reaction to one of the meds. Thankfully, that bit's sorted and I'm slowly regaining some weight. I was losing a pound a day for a week, on the worst 'diet' I can think of. In the middle of all of this, I started a new job, and nearly lost it simply due to being ill. After all of this levels off, I'll need a REAL vacation.

===============

Here's a few things to consider when contemplating the few documents we've seen. As I've said many times since returning from Quincy last summer, there's so many, many files that Mike Gamberg has meticulously organized, bound, copied and cross-referenced/cross-filed, etc. We spent several hours in that room and, despite my targeting and scouring all the evidence photos, we were shooting ideas around, riffing on factoids, following trains of thought, bouncing, answering, arguing, whatever words you want to use. There is a ton of shit we've never seen in that room, and I was able to flip through all at my fingertips unrestrained. A binder of files written by DT, another of Stoy's. Crim's pile of feces, including original notes that help shed light on what he knew about Bo. SO MUCH INFO, it's clear Josh didn't steal anywhere near 'everything'.

Most importantly, as so much of what we know comes from what Josh stole, is tearing Josh apart to understand him and comprehend why we have little more than the files he chose to steal. What was his interest in the case? His goals in making the documentary? Is there rhyme or reason in what he stole, what he chose to put in the film, what he chose to disseminate through me in hopes of promoting the vids?

First and foremost- and Josh openly admitted this- Josh had no interest in solving the case. Everything we see in his work, in his words, and in the opinions of those who walked away from working with him on the vids, is he wanted money and exposure for himself. Full-stop.

Did he try to push the "Bo and Marty" theory, or is that a natural byproduct of having been exposed to a small range of case files? I think Josh didn't give a fuck. It just so happens the evidence points to the killers, so it was natural for him to do even a very weak, half-assed job of pointing out M&B as 'potential suspects' when, in fact, they are the killers. He lucked out by finding the therapist's file, but that name is in several other files Josh stole, too, so it was easy to find the guy and get him to recount those events. So, while it may seem a coup and ticket-seller from many people's POV, it was the luck of a lazy bastard to call 411 and get that therapist on camera.

Josh did very little with the info he had. He even wimped out to threats from Marty's fuck-knob twat of a brother. He admits to editing out many landmark staements from interviews, but one must temper that with Josh's desire to make Pts III-XIV. Josh used a tiny fraction of the shit clearly spelled out in the documents he used in the vds, nevermind the other boxes of stuff he'd stolen. He never attempted to find Bo's real name or bg. He never got as far as the Reno deceptions. He was in Ft Lauderdale rather than CHICAGO! Josh never considered Loon a suspect, much less the Loonibi a pact that irrevocably connects all who entered into it as complicit in the murders. He never attempted to find Crim or Bradley, yet I found them both within hours of his publiclyy asking for help on his forum.

No, Josh didn't push the Bo and Marty theory. He did enough to keep them in the vid, to use the therapist as a selling point, but reality makes those killers an obvious factor in even the most screwed and skewed glance at the case. Unless one is a blind twat and/or liar, of course.

We have no idea what else Josh stole, but insiders have mentioned 'boxes' full. BOXES. So, step back, adjust your goggles, and actually notice the complexity of WHAT LITTLE WE HAVE. The VAST MAJORITY of documents, one way or another, came through JOSH. Marty, Bo and Loon are factors in VERY LITTLE of it. Josh was either not interested in them, or stole whatever looked/seemed important while he had the chance. Or, most likely, stole what was closest/easiest. The room was apparently a disorganized wound, and I suspect Josh stole quickly from many areas/boxes/stacks, rightly thinking it would be less obvious than to take one stack on a dolly.

I don't see much rhyme or reason in the Big Picture of Josh's choices in felonious thievery. Does anyone?

If you take off the blinkers of common (mis)perception, Josh stole a shitload of stuff that's unfocused and has little to do with his "framing Bo and Marty". We've cut it to pieces, then spliced it back together just to tear it apart again. Look at all the names & events in those few docs, people who've NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE MURDERS or the KILLERS. We've not only gone down blind alleys, we've illuminated them the best we can, mapped them a little further. Then we retreat, explore other paths, trailblaze new ones. We pick apart minutiae, hoping to find a speck of nutrition at the core. We debunk, debase, pillage, then ponder all over again. Once in a while, we step back and look at the Big Picture and notice that, through an adjustment in knowledge, our position has shifted enough for parallax to make apparent patterns we'd never noticed. Suddenly, certain names or events or circles connect to become more than the sum of its parts. Yet another penny drops, and we're all enriched when we discover and share that new knowledge.

When discussing documents, what we have at our disposal thus far may have mainly come from Josh, but he had no focus. If one wants to claim Josh had a narrow lens for his documentaries, and in the evidence he stole, I submit that it had little to do with the murders- MUCH LESS THE COVERUP!!!- and everything to do with filthy lucre. Consider what we've been able to squeeze from so few documents, and you must agree there is a wealth of information pointing to people, places and evens all over the goddamned map. Many more of them lay dormant, undetected thus far.

What we can't see is a labored focus by ANYONE (particularly Josh or any of us) to frame Marty or Bo. It's not our fault the evidence led us directly to the same place it led LE back on April 12, 1981: Bo, Marty.

AND MARILYN SMARTT MUSGROVE.

It's so funny that those who think we've framed Marty and Bo fail to mention how we've put Loon at the center, as both instigator AND motive, and how the conspirators' alibi (named after her) also entwines Dee Lake, Tony Garedakis, Mike Davis, DT etc. etc. It's also funny how nobody mentions all the original research we've done eclipses much of the stuff mentioned about Marty and Bo in those oh-so-few documents.

So much shit we've discovered buried in so few documents, with how much still there, just waiting for fresh eyes?
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Re: Drugs

Postby duffyman » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:46 am

Only been into this thing about 6 months and it has taken me 6 months for my dim brain to find the one thing that proves Johnny and Dana were not the prime targets. Anyone who knew Johnny well enough to know where he lived would know he lived downstairs. If they were after him, everything would have been reversed. The blood and bodies would have been downstairs, Sue would have heard the ruckus and ran downstairs where she would have been killed. No, the killers went in upstairs, and Johnny and Dana ran up to help Sue.

We would have proof of this if the idiot LE had left us picture one of Johnny's room. Was his door even left open? Don't think so.

So if drugs came up in this thing at all, I would think it would be either:

a: Sue was involved in drugs - which nobody has any evidence of

b: It only would have come up after the boys came upstairs in an "oh by the way" type of thing

c: drugs motivated the cover-up, not the murder

Most likely pick in my opinion is C

So there you are dmac, slow learner, but agreeing with you completely.
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Re: Drugs

Postby dd1 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:18 pm

I concur. I agree that drugs where the reason for the cover-up by LE. The murders being committed by MLB &? because Sue was hated by Marty and envied by Sue feels like something missing to me. I can't explain it.
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Re: Drugs

Postby dmac » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:28 pm

"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
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Re: Drugs

Postby dd1 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:51 pm

I read that and have read and understand and even agree with your theories. I just want there to be a more important or complex reason for four people, three of them kids to be murdered. I also realize emotional bull has NO room in an investigation.
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Re: Drugs

Postby dmac » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:34 pm

it's a cross-mix of multiple motives. A couple weeks back I read something Aus offered in a link, and the important chunk is the guy being interviewed said he despised limiting motives, that each killing had multiple motives.

BINGO.

Keddie had multiple killers and exponentially more motives, and those motives are individual to the participant, and as wide as a forest.
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Re: Drugs

Postby meankitty » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:34 am

meankitty wrote:
dmac wrote:Drugs must be a major concern for the motive of the LE coverup. PCSO were dealers and handlers- at least DT and his henchmen. Why do I get multiple accounts of being arrested only if the weed wasn't PCSO ordained? Or an open squad trunk for after-school goodies? How the hell do multiple accounts of the same behavior surface over a five year period, 30 years after the murders?
There is something I would like to know. If they were selling from the squad car, where was it parked and what days and times was it happening? Basically what I'd like to know is-----would I have been able see something? I know where I usually went in Quincy during that time in and out of school, should I have been a witness to "open squad car trunk for after school goodies?"

Bumping this up because I would really like an answer to this one.
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Re: Drugs

Postby dmac » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:34 pm

Multiple sources said it was done out in the open, in the main parking lot (after the buses had departed); others say it also happened around back by the field. There's also info that getting popped for possession depended on how you answered certain Qs correctly, such as who you bought from.
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Re: Drugs

Postby meankitty » Wed May 17, 2017 1:21 pm

Thanks. This does make sense.
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