Meeks

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Meeks

Postby azucena » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:14 pm

Whether or not Wade and/or his mother have any involvement, I have never been able to shake the sense that something concerning Shelia and Richard's baby figures into this tangle of deception.

Usually the three biggest things that send people off the deep end are money, jealousy and children, not neccesarily in that order.

When one looks at the motives for murde:. Some people will kill their children to keep them away from a despised parent, jealousy sends people into murderous rages. Money? People will kill for a $50.00 pair of shoes.

Frankly, I don't think this situation is any different. It is trying to decipher what is the predominanting motive. Although I would not doubt all of these factors could have combined, reached critical mass and all hell broke loose.

Perhaps, just perhaps part of the reason for 35 plus years of silence is that while not all peripheral parties were involved in the murders themselves, they could have wittingly (or unwittingly) have been the straw that broke the camels back, and therefore, feel a sense of responsibility for what happened and could have feared the blame would hurl down on them. Thye could have been inciters, so to speak. I see the murders as being planned, but not for that long. I think things kept building,people talking amoungst themselves becoming more furious, and someone used that anger to goad others on.

When one looks at the sexual rage angle directed towards Sue, she was viewed as promiscious, not a concerned mom, kids out of control, her daughter becomes pregnant, Tina was sexually abused at least once, the birth father abused the girls. Ultimately, disposable. It almost feels like there is a self righteous rage enmeshed with Sue's sexual behavior and what happened to her daughters.
Then, to top it off, she decides what happens with Shelia and Richard's baby, which is not what Mrs Meeks likely would have wanted. That is bound to fuel some pretty strong emotions.
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Re: Meeks

Postby leenie963 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:03 am

I'm doing my best to keep the baby bit out of the equation and it is truly hard not to think there is some connection to the murders. Maybe the connection is just that- a family connection due to a baby joining them. Just so happens the murders fell in that particular time line and it really is coincidence. What nags me about this angle is why wait until the baby is born to annihilate Sue? Get her out of the equation before the baby is born to reinforce the hold over Sheila and baby. Argh! See what I mean? Round and round we go.
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Re: Meeks

Postby azucena » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:00 am

I have the feeling tension and conflict had been building between Sue and a number of people for sometime. They may have all started out as "friends" but disagreements about any number of things, including the baby, strained any friendship, hence the contradictory statements by several people about how well they knew Sue, and whether they were friends or not. The baby may have been one of the first triggers, and from there, people kept talking and tensions escalated, as some were perhaps able to villianize Sue even further by painting an increasingly negative picture of her.
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Re: Meeks

Postby leenie963 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:43 pm

Totally understand your point about the negativity about Sue from small town clucking. "They" talk a lot about things they don't know for fact and yet that tale is told and grows into bigger and worse bullshit that could possibly motivate/initiate murder from sick fucks like MMB. While I've not been here very long things I've read about Sue ranges from slut to homebody to uncaring yet struggling mother to serial dater and not giving a damn about sexual abuse of her children. Was she all those things or part? We'll never know with absolute certainty due to not being able to trust the word of those closest to her, Sheila in particular. I really do not like calling her out. There's no manual on how to act after your family has been massacred. Things that make ya go hmm.

Looking at Loon specifically, she alone had motive (jealousy), means (Marty) and agenda (Wade). You and I have been in agreement on this speculation in a prior post. I've been reading Loons comments with Princess and talk about some eye openers; more so than anything I've seen from Mama Meeks. I feel a personality like Loon used not only men but supposed friends for her own use/benefit and once no longer of use, she discarded them in one way or another.

Is there anything specifically posted here about Mama Meeks that really made you wonder if she was involved-before, during, after other than the baby, Tina's memorial and gossip? Don't get me wrong, I'm really interested in your point of view concerning Meeks, especially since I've been binging on Loon/Justin.
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Re: Meeks

Postby duffyman » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:11 pm

I've been speculating in my own head (without any proof) that perhaps with loon seeing her days in Keddie numbered due to Marty's employment situation, she may have had her eyes set on Wade. That being said, wouldn't it be sweet if you could scare Sue and her brood out of 28 so you can move into 28 right next door? Plant a few seeds in Marty's head and - oops it went overboard and now she's dead and the cabin is a crime scene.

All blatant speculation, but it sure makes for a neat little package.
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Meeks?!

Postby dmac » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:12 pm

While I 100% agree the eminent booting from 26 has a major part in her jumping ship to the Meeks house, I completely disagree about the context of her involvement, or that Loon had eyes on Cabin 28. If so, how could she even think the Albins would rent 28 to her, having just been evicted from a cheaper shithole? What money did Loon and Wade have to rent 28? Exactly ZERO, which is why they stayed at the Meeks (presumably until Loon got on welfare).

When considering Loon 'suggested' going after Sue (which the facts more than bear out), one must factor in the depth of her involvement:

a> she fully participated in the murders, and was in 28 during the entire massacre melee.
b> she participated in the coverup, and was 100% a co-author of the Loonibi. Hell, I named it the Loonibi because it PROVES she was involved!
c> she helped threaten the boys into silence, and continues to torment Justin (e.g. the picture frame, etc)
d> she continues to talk (i.e. lie) about the murders and her participation in them.

That's not someone who merely suggested "scaring" Sue into moving. That's someone who wanted far more than a dark cloud over 28. Did she want an excuse to get away from Marty? Probably so, although she didn't need one... except Marty was a violent fuck, so she may have preferred a bit of leverage to keep Marty away after she decided to dump his sorry ass.

Would Marty & Bo getting mixed up in a home invasion / assault (/ rape ?) keep him out of her hair? Hell, the murders themselves didn't keep Marty away from her, or even out of Plumas. Even after being escorted to the county line for threatening Wade's life (and admitting he murdered Sue), Marty returned, and even lived in Butte County near Dee when the "those bones may be Tina" call was made to BCSO. Is this because Loon had no clue Marty was protected, or simply had no clue there would be a coverup that had nothing to do with murders, who she was fucking, who she was friends with?

Still, only after the murders (and, presumably, after both Marty and Bo split town) did Loon start to throw Marty (not so much "Uncle" Bo) under the bus. But why suggest Marty was the killer? How would it protect Loon from Marty?

1> Marty, Bo, and Loon got away with murder. Was Marty protected by PCSO / dougiepoo out of mere friendship? Then why were Crimely falsifying records to protect both Marty AND Bo? because they were merely pals with DT? Fuck that, the coverup is about something very dirty PCSO and Crimely's DOJ had in common with each other that made a solve of the Keddie murders a bad business move. Drugs is the only thing I can see that all these scumfucks have / had in common.

2> If Loon's blaming Marty for murder was meant to keep him away, how would that alone save her from retaliation? Bo was the most dangerous of the three, for hell's sake (Actually, the dirty DOJ fronted in Keddie by Crimely were, by far, The Most Dangerous Game). And if LE went after Marty (and Bo?), how was she expecting to not be incriminated by the others (as if her own statements, a melange of old and new lies, weren't enough)? Did she think Marty's insane infatuation for her was enough to have him take the fall without giving her up for a lighter sentence? (Sentence?! What trial???)

The whole shebang is proof these were sick, and incredibly stoopit, assholes. The murders, the coverup, Loon's jumping ship to the Meeks, all of it is insanely stupid.

What does Loon's actions and statements (some listed above) support? Something I believe she fully shared with the other killers:

Sociopathy.

Loon was fully involved in a mass murder she may not have orchestrated, but instigated. She put the crosshairs on Sue's head which, sure as she's puckering up to kiss my anus, ended in four murders. In doing so, she's spent DECADES proving she has no love whatsoever for Marty, much less her own son, Justin. As with any true sociopath, she cares for only ONE: herself.

She may act like she loves and cares for others but, when the (cow) chips are down (her throat), she'll throw ANYBODY under the bus. She used her men (before and after Marty), bleeding them dry then blaming them. She uses her kids similarly.

After the murders, she jumped what she knew to be a sinking ship; her Cabin 26 haven was about to be history, Marty had no prospects, she'd bled him dry and needed to bail. She's long stated (even to us), when speaking of her 'romance' with Wade, "I don't know what that was about. I don't know what I was thinking!"

I do:

    "Hmmm. Plumas really sucks when it comes to a vampire's chances, and I need a place to stay, pronto. Who do I know that I can quickly mindwarp and control, mind-and-pussyfuck into submission? I'm not looking for long-term, I just need someone disposable until I find a better victim."

Enter Wade. Actually, Wade enters Loon. And doesn't this pretty well tell us that, despite Loon's and Mama's (semi) assertions otherwise, she was already munching Meeksemen prior to setting up Sue to be slaughtered?

This brings me to Mama Meeks and her lies.

When it comes to her wavering love/hate with Loon, what is the core cause? EMBARRASSMENT, perhaps?

When it comes to her wavering love/hate of Dee Lake, what is the core cause? Embarrassment, perhaps?

Or is it her knowledge of their involvement in the murders?

As Wade and Mama know, Loon is one sick fuck.

Back to Loon- Let's face it: she has spent DECADES not only denying her involvement in the murders (very poorly, as we know), but spent sooooo much of that time reveling in the spectacle she helped create and chooses to sustain. Her ill-advised involvement on this forum (which ended in my nailing her time and again, LIVE STREAMING ON THE INTERNET, in lies that only further prove she's a killer) was for ONE PURPOSE: so she could bask, once again, in the spotlight while reliving her fondest memory: slaughtering four innocent people.
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Re: Meeks

Postby leenie963 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:16 am

In this discussion between Princess and Loon: http://keddie28.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=1253
[size=85Charles Musgrove
3 hours agoCharles Musgrove
When Marty came back to Nina's, He slept on the couch, about 4-4:30 AM , Nina and her mate woke to find Marty pacing the floor and agitated..He said he needed to get back to Keddie because he something he had to finish, he wanted one of them to take him out there right then and there...When I returned to Keddie to get some clothes for the kids and myself the next day the cops showed up.. We went through my cabin and found some interesting things.. one was a hangmens noose on top of my kitchen shelf... The kids had a club house not far from my cabin, we checked it out and to my surprise the floor boards were pulled up. There bad things spray painted on the outside about Marty.. At the time I thought Tina may have been kept there... We think that was the unfinished business Marty needed to take care of...

Deb
3 hours agoDeb
That turns my stomach

Charles Musgrove
3 hours agoCharles Musgrove
We didn't know at the time Tina was dead only that she was missing...
Deb
3 hours agoDeb
that is sickening how anybody could hurt a child

Charles Musgrove
3 hours agoCharles Musgrove
I agree.. Remember she wasn't found untill a year later...

Deb
3 hours agoDeb
I thought it was 3 years later, and i know some people speculate that Marty, Bo, and Dee took and dropped Tina off at camp 18 the day they were suppose to be getting car parts

Charles Musgrove
3 hours agoCharles Musgrove
You could be right..I just know the a deputy came to my work to tell me before I heard about it on the radio... I was pretty messed up back then so the time line is very foggy...
][/size]


Ok why would a deputy go to Loon's work place to inform her about finding Tina's body 3 years later? She wasn't next of kin and was not involved, right? Just another lie from her or is there any information about this deputy sparing her fragile feelings before hearing it on the radio? Anything on the record about this and the noose in Cabin 26? I'm figuring more selective memory that seems to place her involvement in one way or another.
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Re: Meeks

Postby dmac » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:32 pm

A real LE deputy normally wouldn't. If the story is true (which I doubt), it would almost have to be one of the assholes helping to cover up the crime. Stoy, DeCRona, one of those scumbags. And it wouldn't be a friendly notice about some three year old case.

Look at the totality of her comments: the Hangmen's noose is a lie; It's impossible to tear up the floorboards in the Playhouse, so that's another whopper she's been telling for years; There is nothing sprayed on the outside or inside of the Playhouse, other than "Lights Out", so that's another lie.

However, the "unfinished business" is a story told by both Loon and Mama. Marty's wearing patterns into her carpet was apparently 4-5 am on Monday morning. Tina's corpse had been dumped at Camp Eighteen some fourteen hours prior, so what "business" could he take care of? What other evidence did he need to destroy or hide? Or simply hide better?o

On Monday the 13th. I don't know what, if any, speed he was taking, but he'd not really slept since before the murders, waking sometime on Sat. No sleep Sat night, out to dump Tina Sun afternoon. Shows up back at the Meeks hours after the "VA / Car Parts" visit. Maybe he got some sleep at the Meeks, but why was anyone awake at 4 am to notice him pacing holes into the carpet? That whole story smacks of BS.

Monday the 13th, 4 am, Marty may have had a bit of sleep at the Meeks. Then, according to lore, Mama refused to take him to Keddie, so he left on foot. Yet he made his Reno appointment, the fourth appointment. When the therapist described the meetings, he stated it was the "fourth or fifth" meeting when Marty first mentioned being in trouble, passing the poly, murders, being friends with the sheriff. The polygraph reports state Marty's test occurred on the 17th, so it was meeting 5 (Monday, April 20) that he first mentioned murder. That means he mentioned nothing meaningful at meeting 4.

On Tues, Crimely told Bo they'd spoken to Marty, and Marty'd called Bo that morning to tell (warn) him of an impending 'interview' at the Lodge. Crimely met and visited with Bo at #26 before walking down to the lodge for their little shit session. As promised, Bo left town later that day, dropped off at the Greyhound stop by Wade.

I don't know what else went down on Monday, but he was already verrrrry busy with keeping his shit together for that therapist meeting.

Was Marty really pacing the Meeks floor? If he wasn't, it's a clean sweep of 'Lies from Loon' in that single snippet of convo with Princess.
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Re: Meeks

Postby budrfligh » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:00 am

Wouldn't his crazy display scare kids? Wht would he be even asked to stay? I would have tossed him out on his ass as a parent.
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Re: Meeks

Postby dmac » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:23 pm

I've already answered why the <Nena> Meeks shit is shit.

I put together a timeline of lies about who saw J&D when and where in Quincy on Sat morning. You think the lies from Loon or Nina will ever outwheigh the lies concerning where the dead certainly were NOT in the minutes prior to their heroic deaths?

It's down to which liars you choose to believe in, it's down to your choices of fucked-up liars.
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Re: Meeks

Postby budrfligh » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:00 am

I don't understand. There are so many J/D sightings that Nina's are meaningkess. Did I miss the revalations of how and when they got home that night? The only thing I can be sure of is nobody is telling the truth about them and bingo there's another bit of repeating lies, varying lies all regarding one seemingly easy answer. So far the arcade and trailer park ring true. I realize that I could have missed a section regarding this in old board areas. Links are always welcome.
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Re: Meeks

Postby dmac » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:05 am

Many of the J&D sightings are meaningless (who in their right minds would make false claims such as these?). My last post was more a tangential comment than anything. More to the point on that tangent, though, is Sheila's and Richard's widely varied accounts of their own sightings of J&D on Saturday. And, if J&D were at the Arcade, were they there when Marde was seen there? <More to that point, why was Marty EVER at that arcade?! Drug sales to kids?> Why was Marty in EQ at all? We have Sue dropping the boys (Rick and Justin) at BB tryouts at the mouth of the canyon. Why would Marty be clear in EQ, at a kid's arcade?!

Then we have Richard stating when J&D were at the Baze trailer @ Browns Trailer Pk (EQ), and also have Sheila stating that, on the way home from the Meeks on Sat morn, they also stopped by the Baze home (why?! Sue was no longer dating Mr B...?). And, in keeping with both Richard's and Sheila's acct, we have Walter calling from the Meeks home to 28, asking for John, and being told he was still in Q.

On top of all this is the thin veneer of Mama Meeks stating Sue, etc., were at her home until 6 pm straight up. She remembers it vividly, except that it never f-ing happened. Yet she denies ever calling Sue to say the boys (J&D) would be home later? Info that the boys heard when the phone rang... info that was given to Sheila when she came over from 26 shortly thereafter to get some clothes... Mama's story is weaker than just poor memory, because it smacks so much of denial. Were these Marty's actions, or any of a dozen others, we'd flat out call it a blatant lie.

Something I've mentioned once that bears multiple repeats: All the while people were spotting J&D time traveling across the entire county, there's no mention whatsoever of anyone spotting Dee Lake wandering all over Quincy that entire Saturday (from early morn til dusk) with his son in tow, and carrying that damned rifle.
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Re: Meeks

Postby azucena » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:58 pm

i have had limited internet, but wanted to respond to leenie.

I don't have specifics about Mrs Meeks. However in some of her old posts there are contadictory statements about who was where when. i am posting in just spec, because that is all it is, but human nature being what it is leaves me feeling like the baby was a big deal, almost like the elephant in the room. Then you have Marilyn involved with Wade, and the entanglements just keep piling on. I have the feeling all of these people were friends, neighbors, their kids played together, then the baby happens. I think Sue eventually became the subject of dislike and disrespect and Marilyn used this to her advantage. you have weird statements about how Sue, Marilyn and Nina Meeks were friends, no, not friends at all, acquaintences, studied together, no, only saw each other on occasion at the College. There is something not right here. I think friendships soured and Sue became the enemy. i admit: no proof, only my discomfort ..
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Re: Meeks

Postby leenie963 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:33 pm

azucena wrote:i have had limited internet, but wanted to respond to leenie.

I don't have specifics about Mrs Meeks. However in some of her old posts there are contadictory statements about who was where when. i am posting in just spec, because that is all it is, but human nature being what it is leaves me feeling like the baby was a big deal, almost like the elephant in the room. Then you have Marilyn involved with Wade, and the entanglements just keep piling on. I have the feeling all of these people were friends, neighbors, their kids played together, then the baby happens. I think Sue eventually became the subject of dislike and disrespect and Marilyn used this to her advantage. you have weird statements about how Sue, Marilyn and Nina Meeks were friends, no, not friends at all, acquaintences, studied together, no, only saw each other on occasion at the College. There is something not right here. I think friendships soured and Sue became the enemy. i admit: no proof, only my discomfort ..



Oh my, yes I so get what (y)our guts is telling you. I appreciate you responding azu; the entanglements you hone in on is very much part of something. I have a feeling of dread...terrible gut feeling that we share. Proof? Nope. But sometimes circumstantial is all you have, and if you have a sliver of any physical evidence...well then, can we just call that Justin?
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Re: Meeks

Postby Ausgirl » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:43 am

azucena wrote:i have had limited internet, but wanted to respond to leenie.

I don't have specifics about Mrs Meeks. However in some of her old posts there are contadictory statements about who was where when. i am posting in just spec, because that is all it is, but human nature being what it is leaves me feeling like the baby was a big deal, almost like the elephant in the room. Then you have Marilyn involved with Wade, and the entanglements just keep piling on. I have the feeling all of these people were friends, neighbors, their kids played together, then the baby happens. I think Sue eventually became the subject of dislike and disrespect and Marilyn used this to her advantage. you have weird statements about how Sue, Marilyn and Nina Meeks were friends, no, not friends at all, acquaintences, studied together, no, only saw each other on occasion at the College. There is something not right here. I think friendships soured and Sue became the enemy. i admit: no proof, only my discomfort ..


Well, at least you're not alone in that.

I think it's a massive error to ignore or downplay an issue as divisive as that adoption. If not a direct cause, it was certainly a not insignificant part of the total landscape of the crime, and therefore everything that's been said and done about it deserves a spot under the microscope.
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Re: Meeks

Postby leenie963 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:30 pm

azucena wrote:i have had limited internet, but wanted to respond to leenie.1981

I don't have specifics about Mrs Meeks. However in some of her old posts there are contadictory statements about who was where when. i am posting in just spec, because that is all it is, but human nature being what it is leaves me feeling like the baby was a big deal, almost like the elephant in the room. Then you have Marilyn involved with Wade, and the entanglements just keep piling on. I have the feeling all of these people were friends, neighbors, their kids played together, then the baby happens. I think Sue eventually became the subject of dislike and disrespect and Marilyn used this to her advantage. you have weird statements about how Sue, Marilyn and Nina Meeks were friends, no, not friends at all, acquaintences, studied together, no, only saw each other on occasion at the College. There is something not right here. I think friendships soured and Sue became the enemy. i admit: no proof, only my discomfort ..



Ok...just a belated thought. How many grandchildren--1981-- did Meeks have?
Reason is...I'm dying to have grandbabies but I raised my girls to have an education and life before committing. Damn I guess I did my job right! However, my oldest recently suffered a miscarriage and let me tell you...it ripped me apart.

With that alone I would suspect between all I've read about Meeks, her own words, her on video at Tina's memorial...all of it... I'm so going out there and saying THAT IS MOTIVE.

DMac... That is motive. Chew my ass, don't even care... I'm telling ya that is motive enough. Not to mention it explains a freakin' lot.
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Re: Meeks

Postby dmac » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:17 pm

What else can you bring to the table? Any connective tissue? I've been yelling about this shit for years, about Mama freaking out at Tina's memorial. Still all I have is a few photos and a ton of lies about where and when everyone was on Sunday, and that the Meeks chose to protect the killers in the wake of the murders. And what I just coined as the Tunabi, which is a clusterfuck of interconnected lies that need to be found, collected, compared, deciphered.

Where, exactly, is the connective tissue between these gut feeling, HUNCHES, and the truth? You can start bitching at me when you've successfully tackled any of those problems and I still seem not to give a fuck.

I do give a fuck, and am ACTIVELY SEARCHING FOR CONNECTIVE TISSUE.
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Re: Meeks

Postby dmac » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:16 pm

Today, I was going over the aerial shots again, and have a correction to make about Wade at 26. As three separate photos indicate, it was Dee's Deathmobile that left first, with Wade's car leaving in quick succession.

Dee's car went out the back way, hiding underneath trees at the corner where Spanish Oaks drops off down to the Flats. It appears to stay there for what could be an entire circle of the chopper around Keddie... were they hiding, or waiting for Wade to follow? It then continues around the corner, heading south towards the lodge, while Wades car isn't gone from 26 until a later shot.

The most obvious question for me is, if the Deathmobile indeed went to the Meeks home and Marty spoke to Wade, how long did he have to wait for Wade once they got to the Meeks home? It makes even less sense, assuming the killers went straight to EQ.

It's been a while since I studied these aerial shots (which is why I forgot who left first), so today I was looking for anything that stands out. Vehicle movements, arrivals, departures. The only thing I noticed is a green car very similar to Wade's Plymouth parked right in front of the lodge. This image shows Wade's car gone from 26, and is also the only image from any angle showing where the other vehicle is parked- under a massive tree towering over the lodge. In other words, no other image I have is from an angle or field of vision to determine if that car was at the Lodge already, or if it's possibly Wade's. It's parked heading south out of town, as well.

This Q is for Blaine- Where did you buy the beer in Keddie on Sunday? I'm wondering if that's what Wade's doing- if that's his car at the Lodge.

    810412 7:00-8:00pm Dale "Wade" Meeks, Blaine Grubert & Phillip Shearer go to Keddie to visit Marilyn Smartt. <Dale Meeks / Crim>

    Time Unknown Chief <Phillip Shearer> was collecting money for slain victims in front of Thrifty Drug saying he was a friend of theirs. <Jerry Russo / Bradley>

The above makes no sense. Mama doesn't talk much about where Loon was that night while she was trying to convince Marty to stay the night. One of Loon's many versions has Wade and Blaine taking her back that night- but how can Phil be there if he was still scamming people outside Thrifty's?
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Re: Meeks

Postby budrfligh » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:34 am

Dmac, I know you hate this gut instinct thing but I have always had one about the Meeks involvement, particularly Wade as involved Mama covering for him and others. Here's my biggest thread of connective tissue. Why would Nina still protect Marilyn after she rolled Wade? Culpability of herself or her family. Wade also being part of the loonibi, and in some statement he tells LE where she was, was he there? Was he he relating what she told him? I thinkit is odd that he too remains silent even after Loon begs/threatens him to come on forum and tell her what he remembered. Again more of what is considt
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Re: Meeks

Postby budrfligh » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:41 am

More of what is consistently not said or lied about and tied to Marilyn. No facts, no evidence but a connection, and the use of Phillip as an alibi of sorts. Sorry for the dbl post I'm experiencing touch screen issues. I cracked my screen and it has a mind of its own. I am seeing things gel regarding Wade. I am very curious about the defuncto card party and Ninas adament claim ALL her kids were home that night by 10 pm but we know that Wade was not. Lies n alibis...protecting killers but leaving orphaned kids to swing in the wind? The same reasons as always it nags at me. Lies bother me. Nina lies a touch better than Loon but inconsistencies still abound and honestly all I have to work with is what people have said.
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