Tina's Temporary Disposal Site

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Tina's Temporary Disposal Site

Postby dmac » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:05 pm

Tina's Temp Dump Site

For years, I've believed Tina's body was smuggled out of Keddie over the swinging bridge. As information came out, NONE of it detracted from that theory. In fact, it's only bolstered the idea. With Marty's lies about the bridge being locked having just been proved, I thought I'd revisit this topic.

I believe Marty and Bo temporarily dumped Tina's body after taking her across the swinging bridge. It's a gulley that is heavily wooded with lots of foliage, and would easily hide a body. It also allowed them to drive out of Keddie without being searched, only to find her body in the car- even though PCSO didn't put up a roadblock. Hours later, they drove out of Keddie around noon and, when they knew it was safe, pulled off the highway on the dirt access road, which hid them from view while they retrieved Tina's body to take to Camp Eighteen for disposal.

This would easily take half an hour, and I believe they did it around 3 AM. It's when they returned to 28 that the real staging began. This explains why Dana was already showing livor mortis and his hair was matted flat with blood when they turned him over, placed him on the cushion, and his skull was pulverized. Then Johnny was placed beside him, his body then stabbed in the chest, I believe by Justin. This resulted in the bent knife, which was discarded next to him. Then the boys feet were stupidly tied together.

Then Sue's body was staged.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 714 times
Been thanked: 2699 times

Re: Tina's Temporary Disposal Site

Postby Dogfur » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:08 pm

You've got Tina on the north side of 70, which is uphill a ways from the river. I'm guessing the lazy bastards stayed on the south side, but out of site of any residents like Doug G and visitors. I'll bet Marty was probably pretty dialed to the area as well its' inhabitants, and maybe his customers.
Dogfur
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:58 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Tina's Temporary Disposal Site

Postby dmac » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:29 pm

Yeah, somewhere I have a post where I'd drawn out a map of the route I believe they took. The land on the west side of the river was owned by a different family, and housed just a few cabins. It's also why it is rarely considered part of Keddie proper, particularly when discussing the case. I'll see if I can find the graphic I made by the time I finish this post (I'm so tired that I have to take time off to concentrate and find the threads I was following in my head).

It's about a 100 ft drop in elevation from 28 to the swinging bridge, and a 150 ft increase from the bridge to the top of the dirt road- where it hits 70. It's the same exact distance from the bridge up that dirt road to the hwy, and exact raise in elevation, as it is for me from my home to the library- a walk or bike ride I take several times a week. I break a sweat on the uphill journey every time (If you go one way, it's all uphill. The other is all downhill.)

This is another reason why I've been saying Tina was chosen. Once they'd killed, they started inventing their Loonibi as they went along. As Marty said in the Crimely interview, at first they thought Dana had done the murders, but then they realized he was a victim. Translation: Dana was waaaaay to heavy to carry across the river.

Either way you cut it, two people getting a body across that bridge on a dark night wasn't easy. That's why they chose Tina, and said to Crimely things like Tina was fast and she was her dad's favorite. Besides, the crime appears to have layers of sexual motives, so they clumsily tried to make the focus on Tina as the sex object. Doug Thomas and Shanks jumped all over the 'Tina As Target' angle, and LE kept that crap up for over thirty years, but once I began understanding things, I always saw Tina as another angle of botched staging in a crime that was most certainly about Sue. That's why, when they'd already expressed sexual anger early on by CUTTING OFF & using her own panties as the first part of the gag, then a bra as another, it was sealed that there were sexual components at play. Their attempts to misdirect to Tina were also undermined by the incredibly explicit posing they did of Sue, later undone by the person who moved and covered her... who I've known the identity of for some time now.

The killers are very lucky much of the staging of Sue was undone when she was moved and covered, but the damage was already done- and it doesn't take too much brains to figure out why Sue's right leg was hanging in midair under that blanket... after all, even I figured it out eventually.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 714 times
Been thanked: 2699 times

Re: Tina's Temporary Disposal Site

Postby dmac » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:09 pm

Here it is, the path the killers took and temp disposal site of T'ina's corpse. I drew this in early 2015, but it was my belief long before I visited Keddie in 2011 and checked out the terrain, went over the swinging bridge, etc. I've actually and effectively walked all the terrain shown in the following map.

I believe FULLY that the killers took a nearly identical path to hide Tina's body OUTSIDE of Keddie, so they could safely retrieve it hours later in order to dump it like trash at Camp Eighteen.

TinaPath.jpg


Edited to add, 16 Sept: I didn't know what happened to Tina after 70. I knew it was nearby. When I visited in 2011, I parked up there and looked around. Immediately after walking up the dirt road to Keddie, you can cross the 70 and hide when going a bit to the right. At that hour, the 70 was The Killers' Stage.
You must be a member of the Keddie Forum with 15 approved posts to view the files attached to this post.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 714 times
Been thanked: 2699 times

Re: Tina's Temporary Disposal Site

Postby duffyman » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:03 am

This would end speculation on premeditation in my book. If you carried a body, in the dark, uphill all this way because your buddy wanted to "get some" and it "accidentally" turned into a murder, you would bitch bloody hell at him and never want to see him again. Even though Tina was small, she would have felt like she weighed a ton by the time they got to where they were going.

The fact M&B went through this together and then still wanted to live together, work together, etc shows they both WANTED to do this together from the outset.

In any case, I wonder if anyone looked into whether the bike or a wagon or something might have been used as an aid to move her around?
duffyman
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:47 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Tina's Temporary Disposal Site

Postby budrfligh » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:26 am

Tina was chosen because she was tiny, easier to carry, manipulate than the other vx. I want to know who said aTina was daddy's favorite? Just Marty? Was it common knowledge? Also asking because I have been told Sue's hubby could be involved. I thought his alibi was rock solid. Could you kindly give me some links? Anyone not just D whose limited to library hours? Also because my friend asked I am curious did he give a fuck enough to hire a hit man or was he just glad to be rid of the family responsibility? Did he stalk Sue or seek her out? I thought no, but thought and fact are 2 separate things.
budrfligh
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:51 am
Has thanked: 243 times
Been thanked: 92 times

Re: Tina's Temporary Disposal Site

Postby dmac » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:14 pm

There's a few interesting exchanges in the Crimely interview with Marty, all of them very incriminating: Dana saw me killing them. Why the overkill?! Get it done and get out! No point mutilating them. Why didn't we kill my stepson and the other boys? Tina was the father's favorite. The boys fought us. We wanted to incriminate Dana as lone killer. He and Johnny were into drugs- where'd they get 'em? A gun was used. Drug hit? I threw my hammer in the pond.

Note in this exchange how, when Crim says "first we've got other factors", Marty immediately says, "The missing girl." "Yeah". Yeah! Lead the crooked cops... PIGS... by the nose.

    Smartt: Uhh... [Pause} And he's quiet enough to where he could have [pause] noticed something without me... detecting him.

    Bradley: If you've got, you know... We're, uhh, HA! No more better equipped with imagination than you are probably. And I'm sure you have thought about this a lot.

    Smart: Yeah.

    Crim: Kicked it around in your head, and wondered what happened over there, and why, and all this type of thing, so... just like we are doing.

    Smartt: Yeah.

    Crim: Uh, the fact that, uh, that they were in there, and the persons who did this, person or persons, we don't know... Why didn't they bother those kids?

    Smartt: [Loudly] It's overkill, you know. For one, this is, if it was... [Pause] I know that if I was going to kill somebody [4 second pause] I'd go in, blam, blam, blam and get gone.

    Crim: Mm-hmm...

    Smartt: I mean, there's no sense in going any farther than that. You go in and you do what has to be done. Make sure the job's done right, and get gone. Uh, there'd be no sense in beatin 'em or mutilatin' 'em, or anything like that. Uh, and a person that would go... that... far, why didn't he hurt those other kids?

    Bradley: Yeah, that's of course something we've been trying to find out.

    Smartt: Maybe he didn't know that they were there. Maybe he didn't think to look in that bedroom. But if I'm going to kill somebody, I‘m going to check out the whole house, right?

    Bradley: Yeah, I would go [unintelligible, 24:54]

    Crim: Yeah, I mean, first we've got other factors involved, we've got the girl missing.

    Smartt: The girl missing.

    Bradley: Right.

    Smartt: Why did he snatch the girl? I was thinking, ok... I know this girl is the father's favorite kid. Who I've never met. This is what I've heard from a few conversations, that he is supposed to've been in Connecticut, so they said. Well, maybe the father... maybe the boys tried to stop him, so he had to take them out too because or maybe the boys walked in [pause] on something. And he took them out because of that. Uh, before they realized who it was. We entertained the thought maybe it was Dana that did it, because he's suppose to be mentally disturbed. Both of the boys were experimenting with drugs. This is a known fact. So...

    Bradley: What kind of drugs? Just weed, or...?

    Smartt: Weed, uh, stuff like that. Maybe a few pills, I don't know. I, I'm at an age, being in the situation, going to school, that I'm at an age where I get both ends of the grapevine, you know.

    Bradley: Ohh, ahhh...

    Smartt: You know, people... Late 40s, 50ish years old, and at the same time I'm on, what, the 15,16 year olds, you know, in the neighborhood . Right on down to 8.

    Bradley: Yeah, yeah, you are better equipped then we are at that, and I'm not so naive to think most teenagers, hell, they screw around with weed, you know.

    Smartt: Yeah, right. But, uhh...

    Bradley: But if they were into heavy drugs, I don't know, it wouldn't be dealing or something like that. It could be a drug related rip off, I don't know.

    Smartt: This is the thing now. Uhh... The one boy, Sue's son, and the son, Dana, [coughs loudly] have to get drugs somewhere. This is only logical, right?

    Bradley: But they used a gun.

    Smartt: Ahhh! I'd entertained that thought. Was they hit, because they owed, you know? Ah, but then why the overkill?

    Bradley: Yeah.

    Smartt: There again, if you hit somebody for... over drugs...

    Bradley: uhhh...

    Smartt: It's something you do fast, and get the hell out, y'know?

That exchange is extraordinary. Hell, the whole interview is him basically screaming he did it. And how and some clues as to why, but he got into that far more in his confession. Here he tells how, in the Reno confession he tells why HE did it.

Here's the exchange about the locked bridge, which came just prior to the above:

    Smartt: Uh, if he walked in, how can he be carryin' that girl out, without her raisin' all kinds of hell? Unless she was unconscious. And which way would he've went? And the bridge across the creek here is locked.

    Bradley: It is at night, huh?

    Smartt: It's locked, period. And I don't know why. But there's no way he coulda crossed that bridge and got on the other side of the creek

    Bradley: What's that? The swinging bridge?

    Smartt: Yeah.

As for Marty's confession, the therapist said how Marty described Tina: 'incapacitated'. Again, when you're dead, you're both incapacitated and unconscious. As in mathematics, where you can describe 10 as PART of 10, while it's also ALL of 10. I think Tina was already 10 when they took her from the house.

As for James Sharp, he was in CT at the time. The navy watched him for a while, [list=http://keddie28.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=407&p=12545#p5498]nothing suspicious[/list], and duty records show he was in CT.

Besides, James didn't give a shit. He'd kicked her and the kids out many times before. And, despite claims Sue wouldn't give James any contact info (address, phone) and that she was nearly complete in the divorce settlement, she'd just barely begun the process (according to the lawyer when I spoke with him). And she had to give him this info, as he came out for a short visit in November of 79. And guess who she called in the month prior to the murders? You bet: James.

James did attend the funeral, flying into Reno on the 16th and renting a car. He stayed at Don's place with the surviving kids. Afterwards, he took off to Oregon, leaving for CT on Tues or Wed, the 22nd. Loads of love and support, eh? To my knowledge, it's the last time they saw him. Sheila did go to his funeral, but was the only one.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 714 times
Been thanked: 2699 times

Re: Tina's Temporary Disposal Site

Postby dmac » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:28 pm

Sorry DuffMan, I meant to address your post as well in the above, but ran out of time.

Certain Qs bring up a series of my own Qs and my own As which tie a multitude of angles together. Your Qs, Duffy, lead to another long reply where I connect your A TO B by adding every other letter between, out of sequence. Tou should like it, though.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I can't pin the removal of Tina, or the moronic effort involved to do so, on premed. I can certainly say it proves staging, and further proves an elaborate and multi-killer effort behind the Loonibi. Their effort to build a blanket alibi, protecting all of the key players, was idiotic, as were the killers when being interviewed: you never offer information leading anywhere but a dead end, but they all dicked themselves and each other by offering up elaborate BS stories, all as easily disproved as key tenants of the Loonibi. If lies were spaghetti, they were all done: everything stuck to the wall, yet these crooked cops just weren't Italian.

Anyone sticking to the wall is also proved a conspirator- far more than a POI.

Then you had Loon embellishing the Loonibi to throw the rest under the Murder bus, while saying everyone agreed she was home in bed, quickly falling asleep to three different shows that weren't on at three different times she wasn't home. Besides, Bo said she was awake when they got home. WIDE AWAKE. Bo had found one legal way to fuck his 'niece', huh?

"All for One, and All for Themselves"

As for Marty and Bo staying together, they'd just got away with murder and at least had to play to the band if anyone followed up on their 'Arcadia' horse shit. They hung around for several weeks in Klamath Falls, then skipped off- TOGETHER. Count Marty's sessions from Reno until he confesses and returns to say, "Bye! I'm off to join the circus!" Again, it's proof that little he told the therapist was a lie.

I think them getting away with murder cemented their friendship- a true blood bond. And Marty's last known crime spree, just over the state line from Boubede property and just days before Bo hid out at a VA, strongly suggests that bond began much earlier than Keddie (the "Marty & Bo Meeting For the First Time at the Reno VA" was 100% factually disproved years ago), even if they met through Bo's kids' common line of work with Bo: Carnying.

It comes close to proving premed, but other angles of the Loonibi do more to prove premed. Even I teeter on 'premed' when rethinking key points and connective tissues. Key is:

All three left the Back Door together, and by the time Bo and Marty returned to the bar 15-20 minutes after screams were heard at 28 at 115, I fully believe Dana was dead, Tina was likely dead, and Sue and Johnny unconscious or (Sue) bound, gagged, and already heavily damaged. The way she was found tells me she died last, and probably an hour-plus later than the rest.

The Smoking Gun is figuring out how quick this shit went down. There was certainly PREMED, since they definitely went in with minimal tools at least- tape, knife, hammer? Tape is all you need for premed, and those victims all were bound with tape before blood was shed. That's a slam-dunk for me that all for victims were at home an initially attacked/controlled/killed before Marty and Bo ran to 26, changed clothes, and ran back to the bar.

At least Loon was in charge of the boys and the bound/dead victims, but M/B didn't have time to hide Tina until they got back from the closing of the bar. See how this works?

You can see why things must line up, and deductions of what happened in time for other things tells a timeline of it's own. One key point failing can be devastating to a theory.

You've made great points about what (further?) cemented Marty and Bo's relationship, but I hope you see why I can't tie what they did AFTER blood was shed to premed, or what their relationship was like prior. The tape they brought for bindings proves premed, whereas staging simply doesn't fit the rules for determining premed.

Staging is meant to misdirect. In this case, they tried to suggest it was a crime of opportunity, no premed involved. That alone, in the whole, makes their staging uniformly suggest premed: and the chaos, the schizophrenia, in their amateurish attempt AGAIN shows Sue was the main target. Her earliest wounds align with her staging: Panties cut from body and used as first layer of gag (again, blood all over the tape portion of her gag yet NONE UNDER), killing blow a slice-thrust into the bottom of the breast that hits the spine, incredibly blatant sexual posing: Very personal anger, sex-based rage.

Marty "may" have been pissed that Bo took so long with the staging, but the initial wounds to Sue line up perfectly with how she was staged. Sex-based degradation. Was Marty pissed it took so long to stage the corpses before he could finish Sue off and perfect his posing of her? New guy, can't wait for his first ride on the Tilt-O-Whirl?
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 714 times
Been thanked: 2699 times

Re: Tina's Temporary Disposal Site

Postby budrfligh » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:08 pm

I would give my eye teeth for phone records at 26! I'm thinking there was time to swap clothes and call in reinforcements?
budrfligh
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:51 am
Has thanked: 243 times
Been thanked: 92 times

Re: Tina's Temporary Disposal Site

Postby Hathor17 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:11 pm

Wow, Marty refrencing the sharp father just gave me a major ah ha moment, totally fills in a piece that was missing for me. Q: Danas death was actually strangulation? I know the were all stabbed after death, maybe he was the first in order to try to disguise the fact he was dealt with diffrently? Because the real rage was directed at Sue and secondarily Sues son johnny?
Hathor17
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:25 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Tina's Temporary Disposal Site

Postby dmac » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:20 pm

The killers, MMB, left the Back DoorBar. Marty and Bo returned to act as if they closed the bar.

By the time M&B got back to the bar, I believe Dana and Tina were already dead.
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 714 times
Been thanked: 2699 times

Re: Tina's Temporary Disposal Site

Postby Hathor17 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:29 pm

I totally get now why tina was a plant, Marty I think, was ready to use tina as "daddy's favorite" as a misdirection! Sorry I missed what you were laying down. Again, I'm a newbie and it might be frustrating but allowing me to figure stuff out on my own/reach my own conclusions is the only way for me.
Hathor17
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:25 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Tina's Temporary Disposal Site

Postby dmac » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:24 am

And never let my seven-year build-up of shit misdirect you.

Imagine how horrid a loser I'd be, were it not for every wild whim of my theory becoming fact.

For instance, I knew the bridge was unlocked. I think the pink dress is about three phone calls from being figured out. I believe Marty was overheard that night at the bar about heads rolling. I think PCSO lied about it in yet another falsified report, meant to dispel the fact PCSO immediately knew Bo, Loon, and Marty did it.

Come in with an open mind, and avoid my posts if you hope to keep an open mind.

And ignore the big Tom Cruise film all over the news, even though it's about CIA pushing coke and heroin into America. Ignore a great film I mentioned a couple years back, KILL THE MESSENGER.

No way Keddie is related.

The cover-up?
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
reach me at
keddie28 AT gmail DOT com
User avatar
dmac
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:26 pm
Has thanked: 714 times
Been thanked: 2699 times


Return to just speculatin'

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron