Posing vs staging

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Posing vs staging

Postby Hathor17 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:23 pm

Newbie here just throwing out whats bouncing around my head. Sues body was apparently originally posed in a suggestive position. This I theorize was because a killer wasn't done hurting her. Even after death, he needed a final humiliating F... you. Someone then tried STAGING sues body for 1 of 2 reasons. 1:they felt guilty and wanted to leave her some dignity or 2: They were afraid that this personal show of hatred would be a red flag leading back to the killers. Now, hear me out, what if something eqaully or even More horrendous had been done to Tina? And the 2nd killer or accomplice couldn't "fix" it like he did with sue? 3 bodies left in the open but for some reason Tina they couldn't allow to be seen. She was a small 12yo for Christs sake, I doubt these killers had the forsight to know Tina would at one point be a POI? If that was the objective get rid of Sues body, mommy went bat shit is way more sellable than a 12yo the size of a 9yo killed a grown woman and 2 teen boys. Ok, feed back?
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Re: Posing vs staging

Postby dmac » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:24 pm

In your post, you've mixed up what posing/staging means. It's the same thing, because the POSING of Sue and the POSING of J&D were all part of the STAGING. Just as the shirt was POSED alongside the POSED knife, hammer, flute. That's STAGING. In other words, ALL posing is staging, but not all staging is posing.

So, screwing the semantics argument, if all Justin was doing by moving and covering Sue was to undo the killers' staging, to give her some dignity, that's one thing. But we don't know what the boys were forced to do (level of involvement), we don't know the full extent or intent of Justin's 'undoing' of the staging. Which is why I didn't bring up the obvious when I released that info:

If we knew exactly what Justin did when moving/covering Sue, it would tell a far bigger story. Ultimately, it would answer many Qs about his intent. Before, during, and after the murders. 35+ years on, we know many of his intents and motives as a worthless, dickless adult, but back in 81?!

I'm not going to answer your Q abt Tina being alive, as I've done it to death and all you've brought to the table is a terrible supposition with no corroborating conjecture- much less supporting evidence. For instance, Marty admits taking her from the cabin. The killers left around 430 am, so wwhere was 'alive tina' in the interim? Where did they take her. Timeline how she got to Camp Eighteen if Dee's car was in front of 26 from BEFORE PCSO spotted it early Sunday AM, and when it left at noon. What use was the back bridge? Why would Marty bring it up, only to lie about it, if it had nothing to do with Tina?

Like I said, I'm not touching that sore thumb.
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Re: Posing vs staging

Postby Hathor17 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:53 pm

Sorry if my wording wasn't on point in regards to tina, I'm not suggesting she left alive, I'm wondering if what was done to her was so egregious at least one of the killers decided she couldnt be found/seen in that state. Perhaps she had also been posed, unlike Sue they couldn't try and cover it up. She's small, so they scoop her up and leave her where she won't be found. By the time she is found nobody can know what was done to her. When I say posing vs. staging I mean posing is done to satisfy some sick need (added humiliation to Sue)and staging being a more methodical act to try and alter the scene to obscure what really occurred, throwing out red herrings.
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Re: Posing vs staging

Postby dmac » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:43 pm

Look at what the killers did to the other bodies. They had to turn Dana's stiffening corpse over, place his head atop the bloodstained cushion, then pulverize his head- POSTMORTEM- just to make it look like he'd sustained that amount of damage while alive. Of the Vx found on-scene, his pre-death wounds were, by far, the lightest. As Gamberg pointed out, Dana could've been choked out within seconds, rather than minutes as is common 'knowledge'.

I believe Tina was silenced nearly immediately, that both females were in the LR by the time J&D got upstairs. I believe Dana and Tina were dispatched almost immediately- at the very least, Dana. This is backed up by witness statements, killers' statements, autopsy results, and just plain logic. Your "what if"s go back a few years, because that's how long they've been around- without any merit found since.

Someone else posted their belief that a big reason Tina was taken was because the killers couldn't bring themselves to do many things to her: They killed her swiftly, but would not beat her to a pulp first, or further disgrace her corpse. To leave her behind without all the postmortem damage would be a red flag to LE. That is most easily believable, out of all the unprovable suppositions. But Marty's insistence they 'first thought Dana did it' is a contradiction, or is it?

They came back from the bar, lets say Dana and Tina were dead, Johnny maybe dead or lingering, Sue not yet close to death. This is when the brainstorming, the Loonibi, really starts ramping up: Someone has to be missing, either to 'get away', or kidnapped, or, god forbid, INVOLVED. The killers never mentioned Sue or Johnny as plausible killers, only Dana as perp and Tina as target. Sir John Douglas wasn't the first one to stretch that to 'Tina as participant', but he's the only major one I know of who was FED LIES by PCSO and Crimely before coming to that conclusion. Sylvester Thomas offered that up on his own long before Douglas did, so guess who cooked that shit up, then fed it to Quantico?

The killers mentioned Dana and Tina. Marty admits "Dana was supposed to be not all there upstairs", while Tina was "dad's favorite". After years of un-knotting and unwinding decades of interwoven lies, Marty's admissions tell me they originally wanted to set Dana up as the Lone Nut Killer who ran off. Too heavy. At this point, they hadn't done any postmortem damage to corpses.

Dana was too heavy, Tina was by far the lightest and easiest to hide. And if they took Tina, they wouldn't have to disgrace her corpse.

Do you think these pussyboys would have smashed Tina's head in with a table leg, over an hour after she'd died?

The supposition the killers couldn't do that stuff to Tina's corpse makes more sense to me, and it's the simplest. Youngest and female, obviously not the target, she screamed OH SHIT this home invasion is now murder. Snowball. Tina's dead, let's dump her where nobody will find her.

It's the simplest resolution I can think of, given the glut of weird-ass shit we know, coming from all directions.

As for your wording, try writing posts in a text file, then look at it and edit it. When you're happy, copy and post it. But, if you're just tapping away on your phone/tablet, it's more difficult to pay attention, so try beginning your post by typing up the bullet points you want to hit- like a cheat sheet. Then type the post, erasing the cheat sheet as you go. My spelling is getting far worse (homonyms, usually) as my memory deteriorates. I'm finding it far easier to forgive others for spelling and grammatical errors, so long as I get the gist of what the gist is.

Hell, when I was working in talk radio at 13, my boss couldn't spell for shit and his handwriting was gibberish. I remember his complaining once, on air, that his teachers were grading him on his spelling, wording, and how he 'drew within the lines' rather than the merit of what he was saying. I understand why schooling is meant to help you perfect your communication skills, but I also know now how some limitations are not correctable, and the meaning is more important than the delivery. By the way, that guy is now a state senator. And I'd bet his typing and handwriting are still atrocious but, once dictation is put to paper, his most obvious limitations evaporate.
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Re: Posing vs staging

Postby budrfligh » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:53 pm

I tend to think Tina was easier to carry out, hide and dump than anyone else and if she was missing they'd concentrate on finding her not them. Perhaps this is why Loon swears so often that Justin was trying to tell them she was missing? Those repetitive themes are such a tell.
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Re: Posing vs staging

Postby dmac » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:10 am

There is so much familial disease. Loon made a frame? For Justin?! He doesn't know shit about:

a> the missing shoes
b> "look for Tina down by the river"
c> Tina came out holding a blanket, then ran for the back door. Back Door Bar.
d> My shoes are missing, according to mommy.

Make one guess as to why Justin robots, "Mom said it happened, I don't remember it"
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Re: Posing vs staging

Postby nekogirrl » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:53 pm

well, other than the fact he's a coward and doesn't give a dead rat about 4 people being butchered...i would say he's trying to make his mother (gag) love him...look, mom, i'm gonna protect you...even if i have to lie through my teeth...because Justin reminds me of that one chicken in the farmyard that no other chicken likes, and gets pecked by everybody....his mom doesn't really like him, much less love him. she uses him...but that's because he's there and is willing to be used. and the damn fool just keeps trying...and Marilyn dangles that like a carrot on a stick...sociopath that she is....
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