Justin Covered Sue

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

Justin Covered Sue

Postby dmac » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:17 pm

It's one of those reveals I didn't feel NEEDS to be told, but I now also see no reason NOT to divulge it.

It is known Justin is the one who moved and covered Sue.

In doing so, he also shifted the couch. And he also knew it was impossible for Tina to come out mid-murders carrying a blanket. He saw and participated in the murders. He saw the girls room after the murders. Never happened, as she was quickly dispatched, as was Dana.
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby Ausgirl » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:25 pm

Well that's no surprise, really. As I said in another post, makes sense of a few things, especially his whole "dream" scenario (where he admitted putting "a cloth" on Sue, even).

Makes me wonder even harder about the real reason for that bodgy 'hypnosis' session, you know?

I would dearly like to know what, specifically, the evidence was and where it was... and whether the shoes were a part of it.
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby dmac » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:07 pm

The way loon is so insistent about the shoes, and constantly bringing them up, smells of one thing:

Whenever any of these assholes do it, we know they're lying.

The killers had no issues, whatsoever, of doing damage control about Justin. He'd already let the cat out of the bag, so all they could do is suggest he may have seen some things. All of them, Bo,Marty, Loon, even Justin, tried to spin the truth into a vague mist of bullshit. Thankfully, Marty blew the big bone by saying Justin saw him killing people.

Thankfully, we're smart enough to recognize the patterns of lies and can see the truths behind them. That's really what 99% of understanding the reports is about: decrypting the lies. That's why I've never changed the motto of this forum:

Exposing the Truth, One Liar at a Time
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby AliWProk » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:15 am

I wonder about the circumstances under which this happened.

Do you think/know Justin covered and re-positioned Sue AFTER the other perps left for the night?

Or do you think/know that there was adult perp presence in 28 throughout the night, nearly until the boys were "rescued" later that morning?

Did Justin do this of his own volition, or was he forced to do it? Because the staging of Sue originally - spread eagle hog tied - was clearly done for maximum effect. Unless you think/know that the covering of Sue was part of the final staging (to throw off Sue as the main target)?
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby dmac » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:29 pm

The killers had to get out before activity began. In Keddie, that meant before sunrise. No way they wanted to be discovered anywhere outside that morning prior to discovery screams coming from 28. My bet is they were out of 28 by 430 am. Marty mentioned he knows when trains come but, more importantly, I can guarantee he knew when shifts came on and left.

When I speak of the crappy staging, the schizophrenia and contradictions present, a good chunk of it is based on Tina being taken to make it seem she was target, while the true anger towards Sue that was present in how she was treated while alive and dead. Whoever posed her like that seems to have meant it. And, no matter how Marty complained of sticking around too long and 'mutilation', the staging of Sue seems authentic: Marty.

No way whoever posed her would want to undue that work. Plus, evidence far beyond the staging suggests Sue died first, long after Dana and Tina. How long did it take Sue's legs to set so solidly in rigor that her initial posing was still so obvious? The killers weren't hanging around for that.

I was looking at the crappy photos we have of the living room, the shots of Sue's lock of hair by the couch. It became apparent that Josh may not have moved the couch, that it may already have been shifted. All I know is Sue's head was on a clean section of carpet previously protected by the couch, as there's a long line of carnage and blood distinctly indicating where the couch had been. In fact, I think Sue was posed with her had atop Sheila's gym shorts. If one shifts the couch back to where it was, and slightly shift the shorts, they line up with the blood stain on the front of the couch, by the floor. In CS shots, there's a bloodstained shoe shoved partially under the couch in the "clean zone" (the 'clean' carpet exposed when the couch was shifted), and Sheila's shorts are up against the shoe, partially in the CZ. The lock of hair is also in the CZ.

My assumption is Justin shifted the couch, the shoe, and the shorts when moving Sue's now-stiff body. One or two people moving a stiff body is exponentially more difficult and clumsy than a body that's flexible. The lock of hair may have fallen from her gown as she was being moved.
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby budrfligh » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:49 pm

I do not believe that anyone in that cabin would have cared enough to cover her. This was about degradation, power and ultimate control. Only one of the survivors would have done this. I am certain they convinced themselves she deserved it. That hate is written all over the scene.
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby budrfligh » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:52 pm

Dmac,
Is it possible they thought J&D were dead before they were thus affecting rigor?
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby AliWProk » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:05 am

There was an unidentified bloodied sweatshirt or something on the toilet tank in the bathroom, right? Was this JUSTIN'S clothing from when he moved/staged Sue (and perhaps other victims)? How was it he wasn't covered in blood when he spoke to DT? What was Justin wearing when he went to 28 for the sleepover, vs. what he was wearing when he spoke to DT?

Did Jamie Seabolt see Justin with blood on him when he came out the window? DID Justin come out the window with the other boys?

I suppose we may never know.
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby dmac » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:41 pm

There's so many damned things I'm uneasy with. PREMED, ferchrissakes. They brought the tape to 28, they left the bar just after 1 am (any corroboration of WHEN they left, outside the Loonibi? Not yet!), they ran home and changed clothes? Marty, unprompted, said they did. Why the hell go to a mass murder birthday party dressed like Travolta in Grampers? To me it seems they almost MUST have gone home, changed into denim, went to 28 armed to the teeth. Then, upon Tina getting off a few high-decibel screams, blood hit the fan. They had to establish an alibi, a Loonibi, so they ran back home (leaving Loon and X in charge), changed back into Bee Gee Garanimals, sans the vests (as per Marty), and went back up the Back Door.

Conclusion: If most of the shit went down at 115, M&B certainly had to be dressed denim rather than disco.

Yet again, Marty said, off-the-cuff, they decided to take their vests off b4 returning to the Back Door! ~

"when we came back it was, oh, ten minutes later, we had enough time to take off our... We were in three-pieces, so we had enough time to take off our jacket and vest, and then put our jackets back on. "

So they had reason to get rid of the vests by 130? How can that possibly be conceived as exculpatory?

Again, did this argument about music ever occur outside the Loonibi?!

How long does it take to walk past 28 to 26, change into work clothes, equip yourself, and head back to Sue's bedroom? Depends on how premed this was, and depends on whether these assholes were Minutemen outside the bedroom. But it doesn't change the fact this was premeditated by complete morons.

As for blood on the blue sweatshirt on the toidy tank? None was ever mentioned. Sheila said it wasn't John's, may have been Dana's. Poof! disappeared. LE did take the left door from the bathroom cupboard, and checked the p traps on all sinks (other than basement and shower, I s'pose). LE came to the conclusion the killers MAY HAVE cleaned up, MAY HAVE been injured during all the whammy hammy stabby. They did a perfunctory check of SOME neighboring hospitals for possibly related injuries, but the scatter-shot application of their requests makes the entire process appear dubious at best.

To answer your Q, I don't know how early Justin was forced into action. Was he Mr. X? Was Dee Lake? Tony? Mike? Shit, Steve? All we know of Mr X (if there was one) is he likely made no appearance at the Back Door or with the Gang of Three and a Half (Marty, Loon, Bo, Justin), therefore leaving him (her) free to stay at 28 rather than run back to the Back Door to re-establish a BS alibi. Like saying 'hello' to a teller before handing over the robbery instructions note.

What happened to the clothing? That's the crux of the issue you mention. Loon makes J's shoes a crucial WTF, meaning it's 99.9% certain it's another red herring from the Killer Kunt. The IFs rule the day. Blood on the staged denim shirt (the killers wore disco duds, not denim, to the Back Door Alibi). Was Justin told to suit up? Did he go outside? He went to bed sans most of his clothes, one would expect. And this is hardly an occasion where the killers would say, "Get dressed. We'll give you five minutes to choose something nice. This is a once-in-a-deathtime opportunity, so look sharp!" No, if anything, keeping the boys in their underwear leaves them with even more control over the scared, humiliated 'survivors'.

Certainly Justin dressed up Sunday morn in the clothes he wore the night before, what other choice had he? Were bloody clothes obvious, Sunday morning would be a completely different scenario.

The location of the DNA, unfortunately, doesn't indicate to me whether it was postmortem. But the location of hesitation wounds (Sue's throat, John's chest) only confirm postmortem forced involvement. Everything else, at this point, is dangerous spec.

Another Q this brings up is WTF did the boys do just prior to exiting 28 via the window? It must have been about 50 degrees (or less) at that hour- the sun doesn't poke it's head over the surrounding mountains until, say, 10 am, so Keddie wasn't going to warm up anytime soon. First impulse would be "Get The Fuck Out NOW!", so the fact nobody mentions how/when/where the boys got dressed is a huge misdirect. Supposedly the Seabolts had miles of piles of clothing in 27, so getting them out and dressing them at 27 is plausible. But we're not just talking valuable minutes, we're talking about how those boys left 28. HOW WERE THEY DRESSED UPON THE BANGING OF THE WINDOW?

"Uh,just one more thing..." Columbo kicks dmac to the curb. But this case is filled with Columbo-quality reveals.

Something to note is, if we ever get confirmation the music changed and there was an angry exchange between MMB and staff, the likelihood bar staff would know the time is virtually nil. Time flies by in jobs like that, but time also stands still. It's a very difficult job but, normally, these folks look at the clock only to gauge how much more shit they have to deal with before getting the hell out of that shithole. So, just maybe, there's a report mentioning someone not only heard the unsubstantiated music farce, but anyone noted the time they left. Seems to me, from the Loonibi, Marty/Bo (whomever you choose to believe), whoever heard the unsubstantiated argument would have checked the clock to see whether it was time to get the hell out. I mean, the argument was Chevy/Ford Coke/Pepsi territory, so someone with a brain must have been present to note the exchange and time. That the Loonibi says "it was Marty, no it was Bo" tells me it either never happened, or Tunabi adjusted it for a spell to indict Bo as lead killer.

The fact Marty was seen alone, sitting at the bar (leaving Bo and Loon alone, as per SOME Loonibi accounts), talking amicably with Doug Albin, when Jan came down the stairs to enter the scenario.
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby Dogfur » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:53 pm

We need to see Jan's statements-she was named in the Loonabi, but we have only seen a couple mentions of her in the timeline. We also have seen mention of her alleged tryst w/S.D. Thomas, the Sheriff of Plumas County and recent Keddie cabin 28 resident, neighbor to the Smartts. Close neighbors, 2 doors away.

I know this is the wrong thread but- was Sly gettin' some Loon as well?
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby dmac » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:41 am

Doug Albin is dead. buried.

Mike Gamberg spoke to Jan recently, confirming many plot points but nothing about a music change.

To me, were I Gamberg talking to Jan, that would be the LEAST of my concerns. What Mike spoke on is real shit, some of which I've explained already.

You know when Princess was talking to Tony Garedakis via a chat system, he wanted to fuck her. That was his only impulse. I was watching this remotely through a peer program, so I was able to see his responses real-time and write a response she could use real time.

Look through history- we knew if we'd find the fictional ghost fucking Sue we'd also find Tony the Greek. And we did.

Man, I've never been so proud as when people came to me, off the forum, to say "TONY is that lie" Indeed, he is. So many of us knew it but didn't spew it.

Gamberg recently was in contact with 13 Mike. They talked about a lotta shit, even Avery Schreiber. Mike showed Mook Mike a photo of Avery Schreiber and asked if it was the guy threatening Sue. Mike then showed Mike the photo we found of Dee hugging Tony in Dee's front yard.

This Mike from 13 was suddenly a complete blank.

Trust me, Gamberg changed the tone of that dialogue. Showed the photo at the right time. Mike is PHUCKED. Not POI, but lying about the most basic facts. Fuck that, he's been one of the six from Day One. 6+ POIs.

Does anybody wish to dick with my years-old belief Frank Mike Davis is a suspect. a bitch who lied about Tony Garedakis knobbing Sue?

Speak up. I'm so fucking tired of being right.
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby dmac » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:02 am

When I was thirteen I was a radio producer. I learned early that getting smart talk was to get smart people, but this station also loved to mock the stupid.

The Muppet Movie had just come out. I agreed with the station's film critic that the songs, for the most, were forgettable. And MUPPET MOVIE is a musical. We agreed "It Ain't Easy Being Green" is a class song.

But I learned we needed to ramp up the heat. So, through much effort, I called Frank Oz. His wife answered. Manhattan. Man, that blew me away. I talked to the voice of almost every fuzzy friend from my childhood, just by finding the mysterious Oz. Shit, this dude was the best friends in your neighborhood! He voiced BERT, Miss Piggy, Animal, YODA (YES! THAT Yoda), Fozzie, Cookie Monster, Grover.

There is this age-old questionnaire meant to scientifically state who your Muppet double is. Shit, for me, Grover was the happiest and most fun-loving guy on the whole block. Neighborhood. I'm Grover, Ernie, and the ugly son of Bert and Oscar's filth.

I found Frank Oz only by GUESSING what his real name is. And where he should be living in the 80s. I found Fozzie by eliminating bullshit.
Very few angles conflict with my theory on Keddie. No guesswork once you recognize and eliminate the lies.

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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby justice17 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:08 pm

Calcium makes your muscles contract. We've all heard of rigor mortis, in which a dead body becomes stiff and hard to move. Rigor mortis generally sets in about three to four hours after death, peaks at 12 hours, and dissipates after 48 hours. Why does it happen? There are pumps in the membranes of our muscle cells that regulate calcium. When the pumps stop working in death, calcium floods the cells, causing the muscles to contract and stiffen. Thus, there is rigor mortis.

If the attacks began around 1:15Am,that means that Justin moved & covered Sues body around 5Am. (Maybe even later,because her muscles were in full Rigor). He must have come out of the boys bedroom very shortly after the killers and their accomplices left. He just moved and covered Sue and then got into bed and just waited? Do you think he slept at all?
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby dmac » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:46 pm

Regardless of info on rigor, fuck that and look at the fucking bodies. Shit, I worked in a vet's offie and saw a lot of death. A lot of rigor. Contrary to belief, it's often soft. Sometimes it goes stiff like MAD and releases. Usually the rigor never releases completely.

I've looked into it. It happens in humans all over the world, too, unless they die in AMERICA, Land of the Fucked.

I stand by what I've said: Tina and Dana died first. If Johnny was still alive when they returned from dumping Tina across the bridge, they cut his throat. That seems to be how it went down. Right before, right after, but Dana was taken after Dana died in my time book, and Johnyy seems to have been executed upon the return from dumping Tina over the highway.

I'm completely butt-fucked in this belief, and can't see beyond it, but the timing says Dana FIRST, then Johnny, then Sue. Tina as the removal making it sensible for both Johnny's throat coup de gras, shifting of positions, smashing the head of Dana's corpse, then coup de gras to Sue's chest.

These are the wounds that killed the four. This is the timing, the logic, but I can't be that right about anything. Just because I've been dead-on thus far does NOT make me RIGHT.

Shit happened within these parameters. Find alternate outs for any of the facts to shift from what is KNOWN and PROVED.

Even I don't believe I can be right all the time!

Then they moved J&D around, staged Sue, did 99% of the staging. Other than taking Tina's corpse to C18 from the gulch.

I saw this as a fix early on by looking at the CS photos we had back then.

The most fucked staging was tying Dana's feet to Johnny's. Not only was it completely wrong, but how the killers showed it was a hoax is - just WOW. The crime scene photos show what fucking morons the killers are, but also what fucking morons the "investigators" are. The wire from J to D is a smoking-gun home-made gimme!

I see no reason to believe Tina lasted more than a few minutes after the screams.

Shit, "Justin" said she came out at the end with a blanket? "Look for Tina down by the river?"

Where in his known interviews did Justin ever mention Tina or the river? LOVE BOAT is the closest this cunt got to water!

This is ALL TUNABI, Loon's fucking of the Loonibi to say Justin has a story to tell about Marty.

It never happened, physically impossible.

Wake
the phuck
Up.

Look at this image and tell me how PCSO and CA-DOJ lied for DECADES. This was a STAGED CRIME. And they FUCKING KNEW IT.

staged.jpg


If you can't figure this one out on your own, you have no right to question those that see the
MASSIVE lie.
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby dmac » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:16 pm

That's unreasonably harsh and I apologize. I don't think I would have noticed it a decade back, myself, and I have no right to be harsh to many here who observe in ways I don't. Dammit, what I just did is disgusting, as alternate opinions have brought so many valid possibilities and explanations.

Still, this is like a tattoo on my forehead:

About ten years back, I had a near-death experience times three, and came out the other end with no memory and, apparently, new skills. I used to listen to music 24/7. Suddenly tunes were banal and filled with miniscule timing or pitch errors that drove me nuts. I stopped listening, PERIOD.

It's also when I got back into Keddie, after that pedo fuckface's site died, and found I had an eye for seeing. I saw nobody was looking at a map, Keddie was a mythological land of Make Believe drawn by Sheila, Loon, and Mama. Shit, almost a decade later that proves to be the only constant!

Don't take the last post as an insult. When I saw the photo of the legs tied together back in 2010 or 2011, I immediately saw absolute proof! Most haven't or can't see it.

I haven't brought it up much, until I was uploading photos of Bo and Marty all but one have never seen, then I thought, "FUCK! Show them what you see about staging!"

that photo is Slam and Dunk.

Who sees it? State it for me. I cannot believe I'm the only one. Not physically possible out of a forum of 450+ and 10,000 plus posts.
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby thumper001 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:05 am

It would seem to me that it would have been nearly impossible to move both Johnny and Dana`s bodies around, roll Dana over, and position them in that way, unless the leg restraint was added last. IMHO.
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby dmac » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:28 am

Your reaction is accurate, but misses the Big Picture. I saw it like a laser blasting my eye

The employment of the tie is NOT the fucking punchline proof, i cannot believe I'm the twat on doody,

I can't believe nobody else sees it- AFTER ALL THE YEARS AND DISCUSSION
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby gamman » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:23 am

D,

I have been away as you know, I was reading your posts when I returned. You are correct that Justin did cover Sue as he told the new owners of Keddie when he applied for work cleaning up Keddie. I spoke with the new owners and confirmed this information.

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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby Willow03 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:36 am

If Justin covered Sue, he would have then sought help from his parents. Wouldn't he have ran home? No, he wouldn't if THEY were the killers....Right?
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Re: Justin Covered Sue

Postby dmac » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:38 am

related and worth a read. Click here.
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