Sue's Pink Suit

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby justice17 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:55 pm

DARN :-(


Dmac:
"Spark- 'Loon's bloody pink suit'? You mean what she wore to the bar that night? I've been talking to others about this and have not yet found anything definitively describing what Loon wore to the bar. Then again, find anyone but MMB confirming wat ANY OF THEM WORE! Also, how would all of Don's family, including the teen, know Loon had a pink pantsuit?"
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dmac » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:19 am

Ever get the feeling Loon may have picked up a habit of wearing pink only AFTER 4-12-81?
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby budrfligh » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:28 am

A color for a trophy is no odder than the picture frame! I still wonder why no mention of her clothes but tons about Marty and Bo's suits.
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dmac » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:06 pm

I know EXACTLY why that pink pantsuit was thrown off the bridge. Last night, while talking to a friend, it all fell into place. Hysterical laughter on my part? No, I'd just solved the pink suit.

Tony Garedakis is a murderer. Jail for life. Bitch.

Sue's pink pant suit was Marty's very favorite garment. He loved or hated it, depending on his opinion of Sue the Trophy or Sue the Whore. He killed her and still used that single bit of cut cloth as a trophy.

He threw it from the swinging bridge. A euphemism? Bridge Over Troubled Waters? He threw that gown knowing, like the hammer, he could revisit it.

Some may argue he meant it to go away. Which is why he made sure it was weighed down with rocks in the SWIMMING POOL just off the bridge. Right. Gotcha 100% on that bullshit, Charlie Roger Over.

Marty wanted all fingers to point to MARTY. For once. Even when confessing, nobody listened. Mad man on the loose.
PLEASE remember that Marty wanted to be heard over Loon, even Bo. Marty went out of his way to be detested and arrested, and PCSO watched him rape Dale Meeks, then let him go. Last time he was seen in PCSO was when they didn't see him catch the bus to Klamath.

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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby azucena » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:17 pm

Oh oh. The pink suit is starting to look uglier. There are a bunch of connotations here ...
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dmac » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:27 pm

Azu, you're astute, smart, and come from these shadows. You know the pink pantsuit meant BIG back when I first said, "PINK PANT SUIT> WTF?"

After all the years of backtalk, do you think I'm on solid ground? The Pink Pant Suit was a TROPHY and, what's more, LE knew this was about Loon and Bo and Marty and Sue.

Who brings a dainty napkin to a kill-fest? This was slaughter. That garment is proof it was personal. Three on One.
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby azucena » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:57 pm

I think big right track. You KNEW it was significant.

It was to be found, along with the piece located by Tina's remains. A statement to the both of them, and a pretty vile one.

A curious thought: Who would have had the most knowledge of what mom was up to? Shelia had been dispatched to Oregon, only recently returning. I think she knew something about what mom was up to, hence her huge defenses. The younger boys were out playing , likely pretty oblivious, not tuned in, escaping. Tina was home likely the most, as she had the fewest friends, and fit in where she could , but also had her private hangouts. Johnny had his escape with friends, pretty much on his own. None of the kids were supervised well, an accurate coinclusion we have reached IMO.
I think where Tina does fit in, is that she knew the most about what her mom was up to.
Last edited by azucena on Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby azucena » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:19 pm

Cmon now, not everyone. Anyone with half a brain knows this case would be NOWHERE if it was not for your dogged determination and persistence, that is finally coming to fruition.

I want the truth, and have wanted the truth for a very long time about what happened .


Wer'e close d, very close, and I for one give a shit.
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dmac » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:51 pm

Sue's Pink Pant Suit.

IDd by brother Don, sister-in-law Nancy, and by Susan Post, who lived with them. Michelle Davis, too. As an aside, this is a tiny trailer, a half-wide, at Brown's Pk, about 1000 yards from the Meeks' doorstep. That's four people there already, then squeeze in what's left of the couch, Sheia, Rick, Greg, and James? Eight in Don's trailer?

IDd by at least those four, pulled from the Keddie Swimming Hole by Dana's new gf, Alyssa Seabolt.

How could all of them know it was Sue's? I think Michelle was about Johnny's age then, not in bars. Not going to dinner parties. From what I understand, Don's family wasn't too social with Sue, so under what sets of circumstances could all from Don's trailer be introduced to, and therefore later recognize, the pant suit?

Of course, it's an open-ended scenario. There could be more records of PCSO talking to people who recognized the pink pantsuit. Like the rest of the Seabolts, 28s neighbors, workers at the Back Door. Hell, people at the Pioneer bar in Gville, such as the lady who knew Sue and Marty were an item.

But we already know LE were burying facts, not following up on obvious leads.
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby Dogfur » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:04 pm

Given the lack of veracity of Donna W's statements I guess there isn't really any more reason to bark up this tree from timeline B:

810411-????b Donna W. states that when she saw Sue Sharp at the Sharp house, that she was dressed like she was ready to go out.

Does 'dressed to go out' mean in a pink pantsuit? Do we think crazy Donna was even in Keddie on the 11th?
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dmac » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:45 am

No. Not one item which I recall from Donna's extensive ramblings holds any merit. Imagine Craig in real-time during the early days of the case, pushing his worthless self into any angle of the case possible. Whatever anyone brings up about the murders, he was there! Giving the boys a ride, usually. Owner of J&D Taxi Co, Ltd.

Transfer it to a female trainwreck in Quincy in 1981, instead of a puffy pile of pedo puke decades later. That's Donna, where the only meritorious statements surrounding her are by others: she's mentally unstable, fucked up on drugs and booze, admitted to the hospital for an OD/suicide, though strangely not checked in by LE as a nut case like 'witness' Phil was. Apparently she had some involvement with the Dorrises, but to what extent is not currently known by us- nor is any relationship with Dana, who lived at the Dorrises, or Johnny. Spec that her meltdowns are related to guilt about the murders is mentioned without any reasoning as to why, so we're, again, left in the dark by LE's shit reports.

I was falling asleep in the middle of my last post, but what I was trying to say is the few reports we have about IDing the pantsuit indicate:

  • the pantsuit must be Sue's
  • discovered by Alyssa, but not IDd by her as being Sue's
  • We, in fact, see no other reports of people IDing the suit other than those in the Davis trailer, and those IDs are only mentioned in the PoN report

We've not seen any reports regarding contact with anyone in the Davis trailer, other than the Shaver report from Sunday morning. Still, the pantsuit was of enough importance that when the PoN was compiled (and when exactly was that?!) not only does it list four IDs of the suit, it also indicates LE were checking local retailers to see if it was sold locally. My guess is it was so slinky and revealing that only one or two local retailers would have carried something that LA-chic, and my bet is Beno's was the one place in Plumas.

Hopefully other retailers were asked but, like the search for kegs and pony kegs sold the weekend of the murders, only one merchant is listed.

So, some of my Qs are:

  • Who else was asked about IDing the garment, and who were hits vs who were misses?
  • what other local retailers were asked about the pant suit? How far did the inquiry go, both as an LE task and as a geographical measurement
  • as usual. why doesn't the PoN list WHAT THE F the Davises said? "ID of pink pants suit" could just as easily state "ID of pink pants suit as Sue's" WHY THE F HIDE WHO OWNED THE PANT SUIT?! The PoN is trying to hold back?! Hardly! Just hold back certain, very important things- like the rest of the terminally ill zombie 'investigation'.

► PCSO knew Marty was fucking Sue in 1981- within weeks of the murders. THAT ANGLE WAS SHUT DOWN.
► PCSO asked and found who owned the pink pant suit. THAT ANGLE WAS APPARENTLY SHUT DOWN.
► PCSO asked local retailers who sold the pink pant suit. THAT ANGLE WAS APPARENTLY SHUT DOWN.
► PCSO and CA-DOJ had a valid confession to the murders from Marty, who detailed Sue (the "extreme bitch" as the sole target. THAT ANGLE WAS SHUT DOWN. THAT ANGLE WAS COVERED UP. THAT ANGLE WAS LIED ABOUT IN FALSE REPORTS FILED BY PRINCE AL CRIM AND HARRY BRADLEY.

It's not just so many angles and avenues which proved promising were shut down, it's because many productive aspects that were gushing results were locked down and hidden.

Again, under what circumstances could the four known 'witnesses' to who owned the pink pant suit be in the presence of that slinky evening gown? Again, I'm made to question the veracity of 'foregone' conclusions we've drawn about Sue, her relationship/closeness to her brother's family. Hell, I'd love to see that sole, b&w photo of the pantsuit again. I immediately saw it as slinky, but maybe it wasn't for 81? Shit, yes it was. So how would young Michelle see Sue wearing it? When they went bowling?!

Also, if Tina and the pink pant suit are now connected together via that bridge and a body of water, why has nobody at least peripherally connected the pink garment to this:

    S-VII item 1 One pink cloth tie (found near Tina's remains)
When DOJ compared knots in the pink tie, it was listed as:
    quantity: 1 item: piece of cloth (color: pink / belt-like material knotted in loop)

For hell's sake, we have PSCO submitting SPECIFIC ITEMS and asking for the DOJ to compare them for similarities, yet not the pink pant suit with the pink belt? For shit's sake, they submitted ties used by the Forest Service for comparison to the pink belt, and they're not even PINK, but the pant suit is NOT submitted?!

There's a lot more on this. I had an epiphany right after I posted the last bit, but was too tired to write it down. It was so big, I was certain I'd remember it. Right now, it's still gone, blocked.

I will bet that, if old files are found concerning the pink pant suit, all roads still lead to Marty. I'll also bet the pink pant suit has disappeared from evidence.

Ah, yes, I realize now what my epiphany was. It came back to me slowly in a thought arc as I was writing up some stuff for Mike about, guess what, the pink pant suit's relevance to Marty and the affair. Not only the stuff about the tied tie/belt material, but the length of the romance between Sue and Marty. Follow my logic, and shoot it down or expand on it where possible:

The pant suit was Sue's. The hammer was evidence, "destroyed" by the killer by hiding it in a place he felt only he would be able to find it. Tina and the pink pantsuit both are tied to the bridge and "Down By the River". Perhaps the belt found near Tina was from the pantsuit, and there is ZERO mention of the pink pant suit in relation to the pink tie found near Tina (as would be expected in the way this coverup was conducted). But the pantsuit was hidden in a body of water, the same exact MO as the hammer. And, I'm willing to bet, the rifle.

The pink pant suit would also prove their affair was going on for a long time, long before the Sharps moved to Keddie. How? Because Sue must have been seen OUTSIDE OF 28 wearing that pink 'evening gown'. Although, MAYBE it was gifed to her (by Marty? Who else?) or she'd bought it and tried it on for Don and all to see what they thought? I'm still trying to square away a logical reason for the only four people to ID the suit, coming from all ages and from one trailer.

If the pantsuit meant so much to Marty, then she probably wore it when they were together, when they went out together. The Sharps moved to Keddie in November. You don't wear something that skimpy when you go out in cold weather, and Plumas has many cold months

Ergo, Sue and Marty's fling probably began in the summer of 1980.

They either met in college, or through the Meeks- which Nina, of course, denies. Just like, in the Tunabi, she denies Sue slept around or drank.
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dmac » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:57 pm

azucena wrote:It was to be found, along with the piece located by Tina's remains.

I knew someone had found this possible connection!
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby azucena » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:22 pm

I may be WAY off here, but back to my last post:
I have sensed Tina was home the most, and , as I mentioned, likely knew the most of what her mom was "up to".

It has always felt to me like Tina was more than collateral "damage" . Marde expressed some "remorse" about her, but perhaps that remorse was a bit more personal? And what if she also had to die? Because of what she knew about Marde and Sue? She is literaly "tied" to this f-ing pantsuit.
Am I totally out to lunch to think that the intent was to kill both of them? They HAD to have known Shelia was not there, but Tina would be via Justin?
I may be full of bs and tell me so, but the fact is part of that pantsuit was left with her
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dmac » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:08 pm

I think Greg, being five, would be at home the most. And the way Tina was roaming around in reports? In the molestation report, she was repeatedly alone at a different trailer park- the Downtown, which is 1/3 mile from home. Even when PCSO went looking for Sue in order to get some followup info, Sue was nowhere to be found, and Tina was alone at the Downtown again.

Of course, we've seen the reports about neighbors and friends saying Tina had many hideout spots and forts in the area. Even if LE exploited that angle as a means to support their lie about her independence and ability to be the killer, she still must have spent one helluva lot of time away and alone. As the kids indicated, they knew of a couple places she'd hide out, but many more were secret, And, of course, Tina was left on her own Saturday morning. With very few channels received in Keddie, and the Saturday Morning Kids Zone tv reduced by the 80s to ending around 10 am, what was Tina up to Saturday morning? Even her known movements on Sat have her out and about much of the time.

I believe PCSO lied about Tina and her friend (the Seabolt daughter whose name I always forget) Paula stopping Sue and Dareyl in his tan car while they were driving out of Keddie that Sat. Dareyl's ex was clearly a friend with benefits, and I have a strong suspicion his alibi was a lie. Not that he was involved in the murders, but he sure as shit didn't want to be involved with cops. His entire attitude was "fuck and run", and was far more worried that his gun may be missing than the four dead a few yards away. What I'm trying to get at (pain pill disrupting my thoughts) is PCSO said the Seabolt kid was obviously confused about when she and Tina stopped Sue and Dareyl in his car and spoke with them. PCSO indicate she was confused, when I believe his ex lied to support the alibi he'd come up with on-the-fly when Shaver approached him. Well, that was the extremely long way round to get to my assertion that Sue left Tina alone to her own devices.

Justin has Tina next door around noon, playing with dolls at the Seabolts. He has himself and the two boys eating bean burritos for dinner around 5, then Tina coming home at 7:30 to do dishes. There's no mention of what they did after dinner that I recall, and certainly no mention anywhere of interaction between Justin and 26. That includes asking if he can sleep over at 28. So we can't conclude anyone in 26 knew Tina would be home. Just the opposite, as it seems that around 5 or 6 it was established Sheila would have a sleepover at 27 because hers went down in flames. As far as Tina getting the boot and having to stay at home, several accounts of that exist, and it seems to be later in the evening (past dinner, maybe when she did dishes at 7:30??) when the decree came down that Tina was to sleep at 28. The later that happened, it's exponentially less likely Justin had any contact with 26, or that he had a reason (much less an opportunity) to mention Tina, at the last minute, was told she was staying at 28.

It's one of those things I'm still uncomfortable with, as in I don't feel there's enough info to deduce either outcome. With the bridge, there was plenty of reasons for me to not only deduce Tina was taken over it, but to proclaim it so loudly. With my deduction the boys had to be home already, hanging downstairs, that was so much easier: We knew when they were last spotted, we knew the ride was not the killer, we knew the murders must have begun in line with the screams.

I just don't see the bare bones necessary to determine the killers knew Sheila was staying at 27 or that Tina was booted back to 28. And those in 26 had the same view on Sat night as they did Sunday morning, when they lied for decades to say they first learned of the murders when Justin ran in telling them to look out the window to see all the cop cars. Physically impossible. And do we think the killers sat outside staring at 28 to establish the comings and goings? This stupid setup is some of the sloppiest premed we're bound to ever see. In the end, use Occam's Razor and you'll realize the killers went in not giving a single god damn about collateral damage.
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby azucena » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:38 am

Got it. All you say makes sense.
Just can't get over this weird feeling since day one about Tina that I keep exploring to try to figure out what it is...
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dmac » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:26 pm

Look at it this way: the scheme may have centered around the idea Sue slept on the couch? Go in, wake her up, do whatever- including abducting her. Perhaps that way both bedrooms would have been safe- all the kids, including J&D.

All I've ever done is made the simplest explanation for how it went down, and I've never really given alternate ideas as to what the plan may have been. All I can say for certain is these assholes didn't have a good game plan. If Plan A was for Sue to be on the couch, their Plan B shows their Plan A was bullshit from the git-go: There plan was to kill Sue, no matter what it took.

Sue wasn't sleeping on the couch, so whatever plan went out the window and Tina's fate was sealed the moment she screamed.
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby Dogfur » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:07 am

dmac wrote:Ergo, Sue and Marty's fling probably began in the summer of 1980.


Goddammit...I do not want to be a person who spouts crazy shit, really...and I know this isn't really relevent to the pink pantsuit,but...

If this is true, than Sly was living in Keddie when Marde was swangin' w/Sue and probably a roommate in the Sheriff's residence at cabin 28 between buddy patrols and councelling sessions with the Smartt's... The likely hood of Sylvester Douglas Thomas-Sheriff Of Plumas County-not having any knowledge of his roommate Marde about his mistress, and his wife Marilyn's disapproval of said relationship, is very scant, particularly if it was an issue of contention requiring advice from Quincy's resident councellor-hypnotist. Sly was forehead deep in this horrible, horrible shitstorm. Then I have to assume he lied about it, again and again and again...
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby duffyman » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:01 am

Well, while we are speculating, could that mean that the reason Sue may have moved to Keddie was to be closer to Marde??? Yuck!!
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby budrfligh » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:45 pm

Sue didn't have a great track record regarding relationships. I see it as possible the affair started prior to moving to Keddie. I am curious if they met at the college. I'm curious if DT was the last renter prior to Sue and perhaps even how she came to rent 28. I'm curious if he lies about his bromance with Marty if he lied about Sue and his knowledge of each other as well. It seemed to start up a whole new line of questions for me and that includes DT's possible involvment prior to his official arrival.....
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Re: Sue's Pink Suit

Postby dmac » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:46 pm

This is all based on the Pink Pantsuit being Sue's, which I believe, hands down, it was:

It's found in a body of water. like the hammer. It's found in the swimming hole by the bridge. For it to be found there, it had to be placed there, weighted down (wrapped in a stone, like that sweater?), otherwise the rapid spring runoff would have carried it further downstream. It was IDd by Don, his family, and his roommate/tenant. For all of them to recognize it, who else's pink pantsuit deliberately placed in the Keddie waterhole could it be? The kids were presumably in Oregon by the time Alyssa found it. If PCSO asked by phone, we know Sheila would have lied by denying she even knew of it. They must have asked Alyssa, and the fact the PoN lists her thusly smacks of coverup:

SEABOLT, ALYSA Dana's girlfriend of @ one week, green van front Sharp's 4/11/81, discovered pink clothing in river <STOY/CRIM>

This is the SOLE TIME in the entire document where the pink pant suit is not referred to as a "pant suit". Not only that, it should also have something similar to the following lines: "Doesn't recognize the garment" or, since the document is already hiding important facts, "recognizes the garment". Remind me to post abt the green van.

Okay, get back on track, dmac. Let's say we've established the incredibly high likelihood the garment belonged to Sue, with circumstantial evidence as close as it can be to a DNA hit.

Where it was found speaks directly who placed it there and why. It's even an MO hit for Marty. Remind me to post about the sweater.

Marty was away from his wife AND from Sue for two weeks. He comes back with Bo, and a stronger anger towards Sue. Obviously, the affair had to have been going on prior to his VA stay, because the affair, being recognized at the Pioneer bar, and Loon finding out, couldn't all happen in the 12-day bubble between returning to Keddie and the murders. Which, again, leaves me on damned solid ground when I assume it had been going on since at least the prior summer.

Did Doug Thomas know? The Slyvester bastard openly boasted that Marty was not only his friend, but that he gave Marty counseling. Oh, what kind, you ask? Marriage counseling. Yes, DT knew Marty was fucking Sue.

To wrap up this supposed spec, let's also admit 28 would have been a highly sought rental in Plumas in 81. Shit, I was paying a full hundred more for a 1 br basement apartment two years later. It was in bad shape, had no insulation, held together with duct tape and spit. It had been a few months since his divorce, he was remarried, so he was probably over the post-divorce financial depression. Why was Doug in 28? Again, Plumas housing was geared towards only two classes: The rich and the poor. Very few for the latter, and far fewer still for middle class. He probably got into 28 because it was cheap, and he probably got out of whatever lease he was in because he was the sheriff and was screwing Jan.

Small pool of people, and if Marty was stupid enough to brag about needing to kill somebody and stupid enough to confide in the sheriff and stupid enough to go out to bars with Sue, then he was certainly stupid enough for his lips to be loose enough for Loon to find out via the grapevine- if not sooner with her own eyes.

As with DT 'finding' cabin 28, Sue probably learned it was available through word of mouth. Who was she talking to most? Well, the Meeks, obviously. And Marty. I'd tone down the statement about moving to 28 to be closer, and suggest instead that Marty put 28 in her mind, and anything within her meager budget was better than the tin can into which she stuffed six people.

Also, people on my Facebook page have verified where Beno's was on my old map of "Quincy in April 1981". They've also suggested two other locations in Q that may have carried something as racy as that pink pantsuit.

Don't forget that PCSO were asking local retailers about clothing they would NOT be carrying in winter, so it was either purchased outside of Q or in warmer months. Again, further back in time rather than sooner.
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