Why "Sue Didn't Drink!" Is a Prevalent and Important LIE

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

Why "Sue Didn't Drink!" Is a Prevalent and Important LIE

Postby dmac » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:33 pm

Let's find all instances where Sue was called a teetotaler. I'd swear the Meeks said it often. Who else? Sheila? Youbetcha. Seabolts? Probably not. Bazes? Brother Don?

We have accounts of Sue at the Back Door, drinking with Dareyl, drinking with others. Sue cooked dinner and had drinks in Dareyl's trailer. Sue and Dareyl near Belden at the Maple Leaf bar, playing pool and drinking- as witnessed by the freak who molested Tina, Dan Worman French (Nope, NOT Workman).

Sue was 'dating' a singer who played at bars, so one guess at how they met. Joe Baze wanted to marry Sue after one date, but drinking was an issue? The only job tentatively attributed to Sue is waitress at the Elks Club. And these are only instances that crop up in unrelated documents. There is ZERO evidence in documents we've seen that LE ever tried to ascertain her dating/drinking habits. To the contrary, whenever either pop up, it's ignored- other than with Joe Baze and Dareyl, any mention of Sue dating or drinking- or having an affair with Marty- the topic is ignored, dropped. Not followed up.

Why is every instance of Sue dating or drinking ignored? Yet their profile of Sue has her as a quiet, meek loner who had no known bad habits- teetotaler. Yet her behavior still put her, and all her kids, in the High Risk assessment level?!

Why would anyone lie about Sue's drinking? Could someone be that oblivious? Doubtful. Are they trying to make Sue out as a 'better person' than she was? Possibly, for some. Or was the purpose of the lie more sinister? Whoever fibbed about her sobriety was, by default, also arguing she wasn't seen in multiple bars with many men.

For 36 years, Marilyn has said when Marty and Bo prompted her to ask Sue to come to the bar, she said, "She'll say 'no'. She's not like that- she doesn't drink." Marty and Bo never mentioned this, because they never heard her say it. None of this ever happened. It's an addition to the Loonibi, a big part of the Tunabi. This is purely an invention by the primary murderer, Marilyn Smartt. Every movement, every word, about knocking on Sue's door is from her imagination. It is her lack of intelligence that proves she is the impetus, the main conspirator, in the Keddie murders.

Not only was Marilyn lying about knocking on Sue's door, the lie was not just to cover for any sightings or physical evidence proving Marilyn was at/in 28 on Sat/Sun. There was a bigger purpose.

    ►The lie was also to show Bo knew and wanted Sue.
    ►The lie was also to show both Marty and Bo were mad at Sue for saying 'no'.
    ►Loon, in fact, has also stated that Marty and/or Bo (depending on when she's lying) got progressively angrier at Sue as the night progressed.
    ►Loon has also changed her lie about the 1:30 phone call from 26 to the bar. Multiple versions has Marty slamming down the phone, saying, "That bitch can't talk to me like that!"
    ►When asked if the 'bitch' was Jan or the 'extreme bitch' from Marty's confession, Sue, Loon's answer was exactly what you'd expect: she left everyone to draw their own conclusions.

The lie about knocking on Sue's door had a meaning far bigger than all the above. Foremost, Marilyn is stating Sue didn't drink. Therefore, Sue wasn't at the bar with Marty. Primarily, Marilyn was unequivocally stating she had no idea Marty was schtupping Sue. Marilyn was screaming she not only wasn't involved in the murders, she had no motive.

Anyone who has stated Sue was a teetotaler must be scrutinized. They are either clueless of the obvious, or lying. We need to understand what reason each have for lying.

Mama Meeks? She may have known Marty was fucking Sue. That Loon was involved. She was protecting both Loon AND Loon's fuck-du-jour, Dale Wade Meeks, but did she go so far as to lie about Sue's drinking? Yes, she did. Find a less damaging reason for Nina to lie about Sue's drinking habits that I don't see.


From Bo's Crimely interview, 14 Apr 1981:

    Boubede: Now, I asked Marty, uh, uh, about the young lady and uh... [pause] Well, I asked Marilyn actually, and, uh, she said no, uh, she didn't play around or anything like this here.

    Crim: You mean the victim, you're talking about the victim?

    Boubede: Yes, yes. Ah, she didn't play around. Uhh... [7 second pause] I don't think so.

    Bradley: I can't think of anything else now [to Crim] How about you?

    Crim: Well...

    Bradley: Yeah, we had high hopes on you.


810403-1630z Dareyl Josephson meets Sue at his trailer, and took her to the Back Door for a few drinks, then went back to his trailer. Sue left about 0230 the following morning. His trailer is on RR property by Wilkinson's. Dishman introduced him to Sue. He saw her again through the following week. (1db) <Josephson to Shaver>

810409-????z Sue cooks a meal for Dareyl Josephson at his trailer, then they have drinks. Sue left in the following early morning hours. (1db) <Josephson to Shaver>

810417-1700z PCSO Brubaker returns to speak with Joe Reno Baze, who had just returned from work. He said he and Sue disagreed on things (“religion and things like that”) and he just didn't want to see her anymore. Asked if it was over his drinking, he said it was not. (1dp) <Joe Baze to Brubaker>
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Re: Why "Sue Didn't Drink!" Is a Prevalent and Important LIE

Postby dmac » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:51 pm


From Jesse Wolf's old forum, here are several instances of Sheila (sassy) insisting Sue was a teetotaler. Given how so many of her lies over the years have been to hide skeletons in the family closet, I have little doubt as to why Sheila lies about Sue's drinking and dating habits.

I've included posts by Loon and Nina (Richard's Mother) that I ran across tonight while looking for refs to Sue's drinking. Many posts have to do with other topics but, dammit, there are some damned interesting statements we haven't seen in a while.

I'll put several snippets together chronologically and intact, so the context is correct, and other statements made and forgotten can be revisited. Lots of cud needing another chew.

    Richard's Mother posted Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:54 am
    guess i'll have to explain
    any body who knew my family and have made statments about the partying, both neg and positive, are probably right.

    when we moved here, my children [in the group] were preteens and early teens...we lived in a house down town Q.....we were there when we met sues family, and became friends....i guess you could say we had parties, there was always a lot of kids at our house....it wasn't just jonnys , sheala and richards friends but sue , tina and the boys were usually there. my sis and hubby often also....the adult usually played cards, the kids played games, just hung around or did thing that kids do to amuse themselves....there was no booze [once in a while sis and hubby would Bing something for themselves] i don't drink nor did sue...so there was very little liquor brought into my house...no pot ... no drugs....

    however i did have two other children, wade and charles, they were older...high school and collage age....their friends were older and they did older things...girls were in the picture...i'm sure they did their share of drinking and probably did the pot thing...how ever being as there was the adults and all the kids at home , they spent there fun times else where....and besides i wouldn't have let them bring that stuff in the house around the kids......the house had a bed room up stirs, that was their bed room....and lord help any little kid if they went into that room.....same as most families where there is older kids with younger siblings...

    lived in that house about 1 yr, maybe a little longer...then moved to E -Q....the whole tribe went right along with us...
    same fun and same rules applied there......the difference being the older boys bed room was in the back of the house an had a back door to the out side... hence the back room referred to ...so some times they would bring some of their friends home.....we had probely been there for 7-8 months when the murders were commited.....after that things started changing...the kids got older and the parties changed some what ....not real bad, nothing i would be ashamed of.

    time to go to bed

    Richard's Mother posted Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:57 pm
    yes i think everyone has the right to voice their thoughts they could and should be able to ...i have no problems with that..what upset me is....

    i probably knew this family better than any one else on this site [other than sassey] i knew their personalities...their life style of living..likes and dislikes...what kind of activities they were involved in...what they liked to do for past time...over all how they lived day by day.

    i know this because ..our families were very close..i would say 90% of the the waking hours and many of the non waking hours. ..one or more are all us was together...and even if we weren't together, we usually knew what the other family was doing....this is why i get irritated at people who insinuate things that i feel so strongly is incorrect...such as, sue being a drinker..selling dope. seeing many men... or having wilded parties ... jonny inviting some one over for some beers at his house. or the kids out running the streets at night etc.....i know better...

    these arn't just incinuations ...they are just out and out lies...why? i don't understand

    Loon Posted Sat May 13, 2006 11:32 pm
    I'm back. My computer was down for awhile so am trying to play catch-up.
    Craig; I could be wrong, but I thought you posted awhile back that you dropped the boys off at the Keddie entrance around 12:00 or 12:30 that night. As for the bit about Justin; he says he can't remember. I, as his mother, have a hard time excepting that he can't remember. His life has really been screwed up since this happened. He is so full of anger and self destruction. I'm in pain for him and wish I could get him to release whatever he saw or heard that night. I truely believe it would help him if he could get it off his chest. I hope to talk to him about this when I go to Washington to see both boys'.

    As far as the younger ones, some kids do sleep through anything, however I don't think Justin or Tina did. I don't want anyone to fear asking me questions, it might rekindle my memory and also help with how to handle questions with Justin. Bring it on folks, you won't jurt my feelings, you may even help me get some peace of mind.

    Jesse' Yes we were a little tipsy but not drunk. We mostly danced and had a few drinks, then the arguement with Jan. I wish I could ask Jan what it was about. Maybe that's when Marty got fired? I'm not sure if it was his birthday. If I'm not mistaken, someone posted that on the board awhile back.

    Richard's Mother posted Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:47 am
    I don't know who gve marty a ride from my house or even if he had one....he wax going to hitch hike earlyer when i wouldn't take him to keddie.......he left my house about 4 am so marlyn said.....i had gone to bed

    4 people were killed...AND YOU CALL IT A GAME.....I, OF ALL PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD, I CAN'T BERLIEVE YOU SAID THAT TO ME...why should i have complained, i have always belived marty was one of the killers, i have stated that over and over again.....and i have good reason for beliving it....

    as fr sue and the real insights on her life.......well, i know what she liked to do for fun....she had 5 kids.....what she looked like....etc......but thats not what yu want to know, is it....well i can't dig up any thing terrible and bad that woud be a reason for her to be killed.....i met her in probely 1980, what her life was like before that , i don't know......i know she was divorced, ....maybe she was a drinker at one time..if so it was long before i knew her...i never saw her drink any alcohal.....[thanks meekerat]....don't think she was a slutty women,...there was no men in her life while i knew her....i'm not a person to judge someone because of their past, but more so on how they treat me and mine......

    Loon posted Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:03 am
    I have been very ill for the past 2 weeks so will make this short.
    I have 2 questions; how is it that so many people know more about Bo than I do? He lived with us for a short time.
    How and why would Marty, Bo, and Dee take Tina? Wade himself said that Marty told him he was going to Reno (for drugs), (to get car parts).
    I have a statement to make: None of us were drunk or high on drugs that night when we left the lodge to go back to the cabin. In fact, in the 3 years that I was married to Marty, I never saw him drunk. He just did'nt drink and neither did I. While Bo was there, I never saw him drink either.

    LOON posted Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:08 am
    I did talk to Mr. Seavy (a couple of times). He does come off as gruff, but has been asked by Gary to watch and to keep people from breaking into the empty cabins. I think he is a heavy drinker. He was friends with Marty, and like Dee, believes that Marty did'nt do this crime. He was very nice to me when I told him who I was, and talked to my husband and I for quite some time. He told us if we wanted to look around or to talk to him again, just to come to his cabin and let us know we were there. He also told us quote," when people talk to much in this county, the get dead", end quote. It was not a threat just a piece of advice. At any rate, he does try to keep curious "looky loos" away, to maintain some sort of peace and privacy in Keddie. My in-laws live there now, so I don't have to worry about asking him anything.

    LOON posted Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:16 pm
    I'm sure in the film I stated that all three of us returned to cabin together. It was while I was getting ready for bed that Marty got on the phone with Jan I assume, and continued the arguement with her. It was after that phone call that they both left and returned to the bar I assumed. I have stated this repeatedly in past posts. As far as Casey, he was at home in bed asleep. We were not going to be gone long, just a drink, and then return home. I already know and agree that makes me a bad or at the very least a sad mother. This is the only thing I can think of and it seems Casey was there when Marty was messing in the stove. This is what Casey remembers also.

    sassy Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:25 pm
    JK : I am not sure what you are talking about, I sure in the hope you are not saying that my mom was at the bar all the time...she didn't even drink. so people get that out of your head now. Back then we did stay out late, kids felt safe to go out at night, not like now.

    Have you seen the video yet? If you listen to Marilyn, she even states that my mom did not drink.

    MP281 Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:56 am
    Craig I have to thank you. If I hadn't read all your post over this last year and learned that your main agenda was to put yourself square in the middle of this case I wouldn't have come up with something that starts to make sense. I discounted everything you offered up and put it all out of my mind and looked at some real facts.. Take your yellow house and stick it where the sun dont shine. Your fifteen minutes of fame isn't here. Go look somewhere else for it.

    sassy Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:42 pm:
    go and read what was posted about the reporter on josh's site, if you notice she said RUMORS. as far as gary, he did not know my family at all. If i remember right about the Seabolts, her kids did come over and play with us. i am sure since she was into the church thing that she did look down poorly on my family as my mom trying to raise 5 kids on her own with the assistance of the state. my mom did not date many men as stated on this site and video. she was too busy raising us kids. nor did she have anything to do with drugs, she didn't even drink.

    sassy Posted Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:12 pm:
    We lived right next door, mrs. seabolt would have known her kids were there.
    my mom and i were very close and we talked about everything. i would have known what she was into and not into.
    as far as dana's dad goes, he was a drunk and dana did not take johnny over to his dad's house, do to the fact he did not like going there.
    and by the way the only mention you made of rumors was Quote:
    that there were rumors of her dealing drugs and involved in prostitution.
    I am not going to get into it with you as well. I am only correcting the facts.

    msmartt posted Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:17 pm:
    You would assume so. Also assume that most people in/from that community are not screening this board to talk about Sue either. Just because the people on here, who by and large seem to be her family and freinds, aren't coming forth witht that information doesn't mean it isn't a possibility. And again, there are those rumors, as evidenced by Metcalf's comments. Unless someone wants to say that Metcalf arbitrarilly made those comments knowing they were false. Not something most reports do, and when they do it tends to be an instant career killer.

    i used the word rumor three times. All three in the context of what Metcalf had to say. I didn't not elude to what Seabolt or Wingate said as a rumor because they were not rumors. Seabolt stated as a matter of fact that she didn't allow her children to go over there. Regardless of what you may say about it, in the video she said she did not allow her children there. I can only take that as fact since the information is coming directly from the source.

    And Gary's comment was an opinion. I didn't call that a rumor because it isn't. It is his opinion that the murders took place because of something Sue was involved with. Again, you can say what you want. Metcalf, Seabolt, and Wingate all say something different and that is indisputable. It is on video for everyone to see. Now if you want to call Seabolt a liar thats on you. And if you feel that those rumors Metcalf talks about are wrong thats fine also. And if you don't like Gary's opinion, oh well. But it is a fact that all three of them said those things.

    sassy Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:53 pm
    ms: as far as reporters go, how many do you know get their facts straight? if you read the newspapers from back then, they have mistakes in them. Yes that is Gary's opinion and he has every right to say what he wants to say. I have every right to my opinion as well and dispute what people have to say about my family, just like you have every right with your family.
    Gary had no idea what my family was like, just like I had no idea what his family was like. I only knew Dana and Lisa (through school)
    By the way, if you watch the video, marilyn stated that my mom did not drink and that she will not go to the bar but marty made her ask my mom so bo would not be the third wheel. maybe if my mom was what people are trying to say what she was, all of them would be alive today.

    Richard's Mother posted Sat May 30, 2009 12:28 am
    I don't think marty wanted to see sue dead or really planned to kill her. I think it was on the spur of the moment thing. look at what had happen to him that evening. he had went to the bar, had a fight with his boss, got fired, sue wouldn't go out with them. fought with his boss again over the phone. I think he high on drugs.drinking. and was mad. and as the evening progressed the madder he got. After he talked to his boss over he phone. He and bo left the house again. he wasn't gonna take it. He was looking for someone to take it out on. And in that condition, there was sue, who did she think she was. she think she is better than us. Let just go teacher her a lesson. I think he went to confront sue. then every thing went out of control


Given the premise of this thread...

    810421 Interview with Loon: Marilyn was asked if Bo had ever met Sue Sharp. She said Bo met Sue on Wednesday (4-8-81) night, and as far as she knew Bo had never seen her again.She said she met Sue shortly after Sue moved to Keddie (November 1980). She said she and Sue were friends, occasionally had coffee together, and their kids were friends. She was asked if Marty knew Sue very well and how he felt about her. She said Marty didn't know Sue very well. She said that he hates all women, and he thinks they are sluts. She said Marty also hated Johnny Sharp and had threatened to break his hands because he thought Johnny was a punk. She said this happened in March. Marilyn said that in general her husband hated all teenagers. He used to call Ricky a pothead and Tina Sharp a whore.


In 2012, Princess had a few online chats with Loon. When possible, we'd arrange for me to be in a different chat window so I could feed questions to Princess and she could send Loon's comments to me in real time. Here is part of one chat, where Loon, back-to-back, denies Sue drank, and denies Marty knew Sue. You can't make this quality of horseshit up.

    Sue was a stay at home mom,not a party goer.. she didn't drink or do drugs... She was quiet...That's why she wouldn't go with us that night to the lounge, which, by the way made Marty very angry. I tried to tell him she wouldn't go but he insisted on me asking her anyway... He wanted Bo to have company. It was around 9:00PM and I knew she would already be in her robe preparing for bed..

    As far as I knew Marty didn't know her personally... He just thought Johnny was a smart ass punk teenage.. They had words several days before,about what?, I don't know..
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