Keddie Map

facts surrounding the Keddie Murders, for beginners and up

Keddie Map

Postby dmac » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:02 am

This map project was mentioned on p.3 of "Cabin 28 Floorplan V2", but I thought I'd better drag it into a separate thread.

dmac wrote:Here's what I've got so far: all the maps, superimposed over each other so they line up. You can download the individual files, or the zip folder. Use any simple photo viewer (like Windows Picture Viewer) and flip through them to see the variations in aerial photos and maps. Go here:

http://c28.layerv.com/maps/29may10/

These two files are animated gifs of the superimpositions. As such, they are large files:

http://c28.layerv.com/maps/29may10/animap.gif
http://c28.layerv.com/maps/29may10/animapsmall.gif

Comments welcome. You can also use imaging software (like Paint) to tweak these images by adding points of interest, cabins, comments, corrections, etc., and posting them back here.

How accurate is the map Neon re-posted? It must have made sense to the former occupant that originally made it (whom was that?), and none of the road maps I've seen can be considered accurate when compared to aerial photos...

Cheers-


I've done a very crude first draft of the map, using old photos, all the maps & aerial photos listed above, and the odd coin toss as reference points. Most of the major roads are there, as are the lodge and dorm, and a few scattered buildings. This image also superimposes with those listed above.

I don't know the names of the roads, and don't trust the maps, so they are color coded and I've given them placeholder names until the truth is revealed.

Any input welcome, of course.


Image

I just noticed the road labeled 'road / trail' (between the loop of the RR access road) is accidentally the same color as the one labeled 'North Lodge Rd.' It is supposed to be light tan, along with the unknown trail/road which parallels 'South Lodge Road'.

Any details on correct names, whether the roads are dirt or paved, inaccuracies, etc., are welcome.
Last edited by dmac on Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby the celt » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:30 am

where the boys dropped off at the keddie resort rd and had to cross the bridge? is the road paved, gravel, or black top? and did some one say they observed 3 people walking into or out of keddie that night? and if the boys did walk on keddie resort rd. did anyone in any of the cabins they past on the way to c-28 observe them that night? was there mud on the boys shoes , on there pants? was mud or dirt found on there hands or under fingernails? i know this is about the maps sorry its off subject.
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Postby the celt » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:13 pm

kitty, can you recall on the timeline when the 3 where seen going into keddie in relation to the boys being dropped off. also was it chilly that night? i know it was April and if chilly, where the boys wearing jackets? they walked into the cabin the perps where there. was sue still fighting with the perps and the boys walked in and where jumped the minute they entered the cabin or did the boys argue with the perps along with sue and all hell broke loose? I'm starting to wonder if the perps where unaware of the other boys in the bedroom. because why would they be left alive? these perps just killed three people why would we or anyone think they wouldn't have killed the three other boys. kitty , today is another good day, just alittle tired.
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Postby meankitty » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:31 pm

72. Frank Ames Jr., observed three people walking toward Keddie past his residence. The two in front were short, and the third following behind was a male and approximately 6' foot tall. Approximate time: 11:30 p.m. Reported to Crim.

I had to type this since I only saved the timeline to a printout. I think it was chilly that night. I know that at least Dana was wearing a jacket. I think the boys walked in on something sometime after 10 p.m. I do know the cabin was reported as dark by approx. 11:30. I don't really know if Sue was fighting or already injured or dead when the boys came home.

I have always thought the perps didn't know about the other boys because they were left unharmed.
Last edited by meankitty on Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby the celt » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:47 pm

three were reported seen walking toward keddie 11:30. no one is stating that they where the killers ,just people walking toward keddie. where they walking towards the cabins or the bar? what time did sheila go back to her cabin to get her things for the sleep over? john and Dana where not home at that time and where the other boys watching TV when sheila came in . lets say that sheila came got her things at around 9:30 Tina was sent home at that time and the boys arrived sometime between 10:30-10:45 and the killers where already there when the boys came home. and people where reporting the house was dark at 11:30 that is cutting it close for sheila. the time sheila left her cabin for the night and the time the killers entered sues cabin was it a 30 to 45 min. after sheila left? was someone watching the cabin? and saw sheila leave but did see tina come back?
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Postby meankitty » Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:23 pm

19. Sheila returns home to get her night clothes. Sue mentioned that the boys had gone back to town, states Sheila. Sue was lying on the couch. The Barbara Mandrell show was on, and Ricky, Greg and Justin were there.

I think this was earlier in the day, maybe around 4 p.m., I'm not sure unless I look up the T.V. schedule. Somehow, I don't think the three people walking were the perps. I don't know where they were walking to.
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Postby gotbier » Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:52 pm

I beleive the Barbara Mandrell show was on in the evening, like 8 or 9:00 PM. I don't recall any 'variety' shows airing as early as 4:00.
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Postby dmac » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:50 pm

"Barbara Mandrell and the Mandrell Sisters" debuted on NBC on Tuesdays. It ended it's run on Fridays. I don't know if it ever aired Saturdays, but networks know how to pointlessly move shows around the lineup.

On Saturdays in 81, there was a short-lived, crappy variety show called "What's Your Line" on CBS at 10 PST.

Here's a good link- they list CBS and ABC and they have the episodes right- "Vicki and the Gambler" was, indeed, the Love Boat episode that night.

http://www.tvtango.com/listings/1981/04/11/love_boat

Correction:"What's Your Line" for "That's My Line".

That's a good wiki link for the Saturday Line-Up (scroll down to 'mid-season lineup') but CBS wasn't running "The CBS Saturday Night Movies" after Disney. They were running with What's Your Line, which was a lame "That's Incredible!" \ "Real People" ripoff mixed with game show elements. It was Mark Goodson and Bob Barker, after all.
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Postby gotbier » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:23 pm

I just found this, has 'Barbara Mandrell and The Mandrell Sisters' on Saturday's at 8:00 PM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981-82_Am ... n_schedule

followed by 'The Love Boat' on ABC
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Postby gotbier » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:08 pm

I see what you mean dmac. I hadn't looked at the mid-season schedule, only Fall Schedule, Mandrell at 8 and Love Boat at 9. The mid-season schedule has Mandrell opposite Love Boat. However, with your info re the Saturday Night Movie, maybe the whole thing is incorrect!!
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Postby meankitty » Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:28 pm

It's possible that Marilyn's cabin was on the dirt road kind of across Spanish Oak lane from the Seabolts. I remember her posting that Sue's cabin was the second one on the right, and hers was the second one on the left. (going down Spanish Oak Lane)
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Postby Indigo » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:30 am

If I remember correctly, Marilyn said that her cabin (on Spanish Oak Lane) was the smaller cabin BEHIND the large cabin across from the Seabolt's, rather than next door to the large cabin.
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Postby dmac » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:12 pm

Here's the latest-

Image

Indigo- that's my recollection as well, but it's been a long time.

Logic: Cabin 3 is nowhere near the crime scene. Cabin 28 is the crime scene. Cabin 29 is next door, Seabolt's. Cabin 30? Where the F is 30?

That's why 30 is important and 3 is not.

If 16 was where I think it was, and noises came from behind 16, it's very relevant. Find 16, but don't ask me to. I need evidence, not supposition.

If Craig claims he built cabin 16 on a sad weekend with friends he never knew that turned out only to like him because he was a free taxi, I'll believe it. If Craig can prove one thing of importance, I'll apologize. That will never happen.
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Postby Neon Bulb » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:51 pm

:arrow: .
Last edited by Neon Bulb on Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dmac » Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:25 am

I know much of which you speak, Neon. Serialmom is of great interest, despite major flaws in logic on her map. If it was her map, or a friend's.

That's the input needed: "I lived there, this was here, that was just over there. It was babyshit green. That stupid cabin was purple!"

Many of the photos are labeled as I found them, some were renamed by me to fit areas in the map they suggest as plausible. Please take my image names to be of no historic merit, as they have none.

Damage to the pedigree is of my own unintentional design. I allowed those images to go out, without renaming them properly. I admit to it, and I'll fix it. Again, image names represented here are not of any historical merit.

I've approached many Keddie photographers, including serialmom. Zero replies as of today.

Getting back to the serialmom hand-drawn map (item: Exhibit A), there are four cabins on opposing sides of the uphill road to RR (labeled RR ACCESS RD) plus two large trailers below. Impossible, as the downhill grade from the RR and it's access road only allowed for stationary housing on the NE slope. If you threw a rock across the road, a squirrel falls from the top of a tree. It was a mighty slope. The main trailers, below, did exist, but no eight trailers on top of the road.

Four, maybe. On the northeastern, uphill slope.

Anything out of place, missing, or non-existent on 4.11.81 is to be brought to my attention.

Ten-hut.

meankitty wrote:I can remember cabin 13 as being on Spanish Oak Lane, and Cabin 18 at the end around the corner. I have never been on that lavender road that before Spanish Oak Lane that joins the two red roads.


As I feared, the numbering logic of Keddie is similar to the lack of logic on a London street map: 1,2,15,18,3,9,6,127,128,4. Infuriating. Oh, I'm mad now.

In placing cabin 15, of which I have photos (theoretically c15, that is), I have to look at light angles and anything else available to orient the direction of the cabin. I do not see it facing south or southwest, as the sun would pound the front of the cabin year-round. Keddie is far enough north that the axis of the sun as the earth tilts around it allows for southern exposure year-round. It lays in a valley where east and west light are hidden by mountain ranges.

That makes for a great art community, by the way, and it also says my version of 15/16 wasn't on Spanish Oaks.
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Postby dmac » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:09 pm

I haven't placed any cabins myself yet. Still waiting for more info.

What I have done, however, is associate the numbers given on the hand-drawn map with relevant cabins on the map I've made. I did this a while back, and forgot to upload it:


Image
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Postby dmac » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:47 am

Latest map with several changes to roads, trails, and (most notably) cabin placement and numbering:

Image

Note that there are only three cabins (and two garages/sheds) on the road labelled "N Lodge Rd", backyard neighbors to the rear / south of 28. Many maps show four, including the USGS from 84, but this montage shows otherwise. It's composed of several era-photos meshed together. I've placed a fake stop sign where the corner of the west branch of Resort Rd and N Lodge Rd intersect, to highlight the corner and the fact that oft-photographed white cabin was on said corner. I also have several other photos, not included here, supporting the 3-cabin logic:

Image

That tiny white cabin, by the way, has a house number on it, somewhere in the teens. My guess is 15, 16, or 18. Here's a shot, from Josh's book (I'll remove it if it's not kosher, Josh):

Image

However, a shot I found on the web, clearly labelled "Cabin 15" (whose placement has been discussed here), located on Spanish Oaks where the RR Access Rd begins and the east branch of Resort Rd ends (see 1st image in this post). I used the old shots of the N River Loop, taken in 1946 and 1949, which I overlayed and distorted to correct fisheye lens errors. It shows what's known as 15, whose distinctive chimney is clearly seen in one photo. It also shows the RR Access Rd, the N River Loop, and several cabins in the area, including two to the southwest of 15 (opposite the Seabolts) and one to the NE (BO & POi?)
Here's the shot of the cabin labelled 15, which is also clearly seen in shots from the vid for Pt 2 (shot where 28 stood), nw of where 29 (Seabolts) used to be. Look behind and to the right of the blond "psychic" in the video clip. It's a very distinctive cabin, unlike any I've seen in Keddie, with it's chimney (rare for Keddie), design, green accent paint, and upkeep:

Image

Here are the two shots of the back loop, as I've altered them to overlay:

Image Image

So, what is the number of the white cabin on the corner of N Lodge and Resort Rd? 15? 18? Or is it 16, where "noises from behind" the night of the crime were later reported to LE by a resident?

Cabin 31 and neighbor Railroad Vicki are also labelled in the new version of the map. When we're done chewing this up a bit, I'll add it to the http://c28.layerv.com/ collection as an update.

11 am amendment: I uploaded the wrong map image at the top of this post. Here's the right one, with all the changes. Use the top one as the "before" and this as the "after":

Image
Last edited by dmac on Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dmac » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:52 pm

Here's another problem of logic. Online, this photo was clearly labelled "Cabin 27" when, in fact, the number on the cabin is 26.

Where is this cabin 26 on the map?
Image

Downhill slope. August evening (?) sun on the cabin face. Rare drop-off behind the cabin.

Please undo my logic, as Kitty did.

Can you logically place 26 on the Keddie map?

Does the rear of this cabin drop off towards the north loop? Does it drop off towards the Keddie resort Road, just after the highway bridge? THAT makes sense to me, but not proved. 26 thru 31 ads up to what's on my mistake-filled map, so I must be right/wrong.

The shadows and sunlight prove the camera was pointing northward. It's fall. This shot is taken from the security of a corner, behind a tree, most likely just outside a car (most likely a small compact like a toyota or nissan) passenger door. The photographer didn't feel comfortable enough to take any/all the photos intended, so hid behind the car. "That's good enough, I'm done, let's get out of here".

That's logic, not ghastly ghostly magic.


As for "ghostly orbs", I can dismiss that junk with debunk.
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Postby dmac » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:20 am

As if I can't make enough mistakes on that stretch of Spanish Oaks alone. I don't know where the lane begins or ends, and any cursory glance at how many ways I've changed the map proves that my work is only 10 times better than the last "official" map of Keddie. I wish I had a shot of every version of the Keddie map I've made since June. What a laugh, as they are all so wrong.

Still, with everybody's help, the map becomes more accurate.

Thanks.

I'm thinking of uploading an "unknown" section to the http://c28.layerv.com/ project, so all can see my behoovements. Cabin 16? Cafe Wha? Screwbie Doo? The Acorn Cabin? All you have to do is glance through the gallery of unknown photos and place them on the map. Have fun with that, the journey lasts fifteen minutes yet the fun lasts thirty seconds.

dmac wrote:Here's another problem of logic. Online, this photo was clearly labeled "Cabin 27" when, in fact, the number on the cabin is 26.

Where is this cabin 26 on the map?
Image


Well, time to update the map. Cabin 15 is not the cabin 15 discussed here and currently on the map (north from and across the street from Seabolts) because this cabin (above) is in that very location:

Image

Changes to the map coming again. After looking at the tiny white (currently labeled "1?" on the map, it looks like 15 to me.

If you look at the sixth post down from the top of this page (explaining the lineup of houses beside c28), you see the cabin on the far left is "1?" on the map. Here's a a thumbnail of the shot of that cabin, taken from p 60 of Josh's book:

Image

I've just cropped in onto the house number from that shot, color corrected it, and sharpened the result. Here's the three stages of that process:

Image Image Image

The end result, although manipulated, only strengthens my belief that this cabin is cabin 15.

Thoughts?

---------------

I was about to update the Keddie collection site (http://c28.layerv.com/net/), then noticed Josh threw a great helicopter shot of the Cabin 28/29 area (taken from the Channel 13 News chopper??). On the heels of this photo, and the fact it supported recent revelations correcting the map, I've got a few new images and comments.

First, a color-corrected version of the shot Josh put on fb:

Image

This shot helps clarify many things. Perspective, alignment, scale, mapping, a lot. GIMME MORE, JOSH!

First, notice 3-4 people on the Seabolt's huge front deck? One adult and perhaps a child on the deck, an adult on the edge of the deck, and a child on the bottom step:

Image

It's cleared up a lot about how the fork of the Resort Rd met up with the cabins north of the lodge and south of C28 (more on that later), as well as helping confirm recent changes in thought about the cabins north of the Seabolts (the very bottom of the helicopter photo).

I've also done a big (yet far from complete) update to the cabin 28 floorplan graphic based on the helicopter shot:

Image

And here's the main update to the Keddie Map (also incomplete). This is version 426 since the project began a few weeks back:

Image

A lot more to add to these graphics and others, plus a lot of photos of the Keddie cabins that I've not added to the interactive galleries are now falling into place. I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to work on them again, so I'd better upload what I've got for now for you all to ruminate on. It's time for me to throw on a really bad movie and fall asleep.

.
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Latest Map Update

Postby dmac » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:50 am

Based on helicopter images which Josh supplied, taken on the morning of April 12 1981, I've been able to make drastic improvements in the accuracy and scale of the area surrounding Cabin 28. Here is the revised map:

Image

These are color-corrected versions of the photos provided by Josh, on which the above adjustments are based:

Image Image Image Image Image

I will be updating these aerial images with a layer pointing out features in each. For now, of particular interest is the third aerial shot: look at the top left corner, where the red cabin and two cars are. That tiny one-lane dirt access road (shown as a blue dotted line on the map) appears to be all there was to access the cabins back there. It's also where Sue would have turned in to park behind cabin 28. In all previous maps it was described as a paved road, similar to Keddie Resort Road and Spanish Oaks Ln.

Other than that, the only news is that Cabin 26 is confirmed to be where Marilyn, Justin, Bo and POI lived.

More to follow.

http://c28.layerv.com/
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