What is the status of all the physical evidence?

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Postby Magnum PI » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:26 am

jhancock...How many holes in the wall are we talking about. Any chance that one of the victims was trying to get away early on and the perp was stabbing at them but instead hitting the walls?
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Postby Night Rider » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:13 am

Not very likely, due to the nature and number of the victims wounds.

I believe the number of marks in the walls is very high, almost insane.

The position and nature of the knife marks would tell the story, if only we knew. Also, how about scuff marks in the area of the knife marks?
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Postby Magnum PI » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:32 am

Night Rider, Once again i'm new to this site so im way behind on all the evidence. Were the holes in the wall there prior to murders? All of the information on persons of interest, evidence, etc. Is this all in the film? Or is there another place i can go to see it?
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Postby Magnum PI » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:39 am

Josh,

Speaking of evidence....I read in the timeline that Preston and Whipple see Dana and Johnny hitchhiking, Dana is carrying a large brown shopping bag.

1. Was this bag found at the Crime Scene?

Rumsey says that he gave Dana a ride to the Exxon station but not Johnny. Dana tells Rumsey some people are after him?

1. Why is Dana going to the Exxon?
2. Where is Johnny while Dana is gone? and at what point do they meet back up?
3. Does Dana mention to Mr. Rumsey who is after him(name)?
4. Did he know anyone that worked at the Exxon and was anyone from there interveiwed by police?
5. What time did Rumsey give Dana this ride?

Why so much confussion about who actually gave them a ride to keddie? If it was Kathy/Cathy wouldn't she know she gave them a ride? Then there is Craig and Jose, so who actually gave them a ride?

Is Justin related to any other key people in this case?
Were John or Dana known to carry a knife?

I have a long list of questions? But i'll start with these.
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Postby Night Rider » Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:44 pm

MK: The bit about scuff marks was just a suggestion, just trying to make sense of some of these things.

Magnum: I could answer some of those questions, but some answers are hold-backs.

The bag was supposedly a change of clothes for him. for Sunday. I asked the evidence question months ago, no answer.

#1: Maybe because there was a phone booth there?

#2: Maybe still at the Exxon? This is unclear.

#3: Supposedly not to anyone.

#4: Unknown, as to interviewed, I have read some things in the past that indicated that they sure must have.

#5: I would suggest around 9:20 to 9:30

Someone told me that the "ride" stories began the next day. I have always felt that the real "ride" stories, plural, would tell us the real truth.

I have had some funny feelings about two of the story tellers, "Donna Williams", and "Karl Spang." Both of them injected themselves way too much into the supposed events of the night.
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Postby Magnum PI » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:30 pm

Thanks Night Rider!
Has there ever been a Crime Scene re-enactment. I know the Cabin was torn down in , i believe 04. But is there another cabin standing that is close to the layout of #28 ? I know the not to much is clear in this case, but i don't think it would hurt to try. That is, if it hasn't been done already !
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Postby Magnum PI » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:54 pm

I am assuming they did but i will ask the question anyway. I read that there was only one fingerprint found, do we know if this is fact ? If the entire cabin was dusted for prints seems likely they would have found more, unless of course the perp(s) were wearing gloves.

My guess is that they would have checked for DNA under the victims nails, On the tape, weapons etc.

Was electrical cord from scene or brought there? And what kind of weapon, weather lethal or non was the ramp from?
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Postby dmac » Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:46 pm

I'd consider the handling of the crime scene far closer to the piss-poor job done at Polanski's Cielo Drive rental, where many blood pools and sources weren't even sampled or checked, and those checked were only for rudimentary type results. Bloody fingerprint evidence on the electric gate was destroyed by an officer putting his own finger on the evidence... Dozens of cops and officials walking all over the crime scene, degrading/destroying evidence.

12 years later, in Keddie, similar behavior by LE. Also, DNA evidence was still a twinkle in some scientist's eye, but it would be very interesting to see what that storage locker in Quincy holds.
Last edited by dmac on Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Magnum PI » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:33 pm

dmac....I agree that DNA was just a twinkle then. But it would be interesting to see what kind of results they could get now, if indeed those pieces of evidence were taken properly. Seems to me they were way in over their heads at that time. And there's the chance that important evidence was destroyed.....
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Postby Magnum PI » Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:59 pm

Sounds obvious that this investigation was totally botched!!! Anyone know if there is a photo of the button found at the scene? I'm mean, that's available to anyone outside LE. I have a collection of over 3,000 buttons from different eras. Would like to get a look at it. Also, do we know if there were any fibers attached to said button?
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Postby Magnum PI » Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:04 pm

dmac....Are they even doing anything with the evidence? Or are they sitting on it ?
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Postby dmac » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:21 pm

The button was from the electric gate at the Polanski house, where Manson hit in 69. All of the stuff in the first paragraph (before the "12 years later" paragraph) are examples from the Polanski crime scene. That photo (of the button) is in Bugliosi's "Helter Skelter", as I recall.

Josh can illustrate better than anybody I know of re: the state of the physical evidence. What I know is that it's mostly in a storage unit rental in Quincy. There are supposed to be some tests underway, but even a high-profile cold case in Cal, like Zodiac, doesn't get much special attention when old evidence is in line for processing.

Sure, the investigation was botched- perhaps even intentionally derailed- but the LE mindset and tools for 1981 were far more in line with 1969 than 1991, much less 2010.

Sorry for any confusion, if there was any.
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Postby Magnum PI » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:38 pm

dmac...Thanks, the button i was actually speaking of was the one found at Keddie crime scene. Sorry , maybe i should have made that clear. But that's ok you answered the question anyway.
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Postby jhancock » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:13 am

We've contacted the three primary criminalists who examined the physical evidence and extracted DNA in this case. Spoke to one extensively; left messages for the other two. Will provide more info once I get it.
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