Justin's statements on the timeline.

theories and spec; back up posts w/ reasoning and evidence/examples

Justin's statements on the timeline.

Postby meankitty » Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:46 am

I'm going to type this up off of the timeline as is.

[The next section of the timeline is labeled with the title JUSTIN'S DREAM. All entries in this post were reported to D. Thomas]

75. I am on my passenger boat. Somebody got thrown out and there was a fight. He had long black hair, short over the ear. His hair was combed back. He had black glasses with gold ring and a gold frame and black and brown lenses. He had a mustache, jean jacket, blue jeans, no belt. Cowboy boots. Black round toe with a squiggly design. He had a hammer in his left hand and it had a wooden handle and a steel hammering thing and a point at the end.

76. Johnny and Dana fought the man. Dana was almost drunk. He was walking weird. A crowd gathered. Johnny was thrown overboard and Dana. The man ran away. A body was lying on the bow. The mom (Sue). She had black hair and a sheet over her. I looked under the sheet and she was slit on the chest. Everybody started to gather around her and we started to go to shore.

77. The man had a knife like a pocket knife in his right hand. And he cut Sue. He didn't cut her first. No. Before he went off the boat he cut her. There was another man dressed up like him. He was in the crowd. But when the man dove into the water, they killed Sue. Nobody had a gun. Then I woke up.

78. The man just said her name-"Sue." He had brown hair, past his ears, halfway. Curly at the end. Same kind of glasses as the other man and same kind of clothes. He wore marked Army boots, green, like a hiking boot with a Waffle stomper type sole.

79. The man used a knife on Johnny. I was down by Sue, trying to take care of her. All the blood was coming down and I was trying to patch her up with a blue and white flowered rag. I threw the rag in the water. The men both took the life raft, but the brown-haired man covered Sue first. Johnny and Dana touched the wall by the TV while they were fighting.

80. Justin tells polygraph examiner Sam Lister that he did not have a dream and that he witnesses the murders taking place.

[This section of the timeline is labeled JUSTIN'S STATEMENTS.]

81. Justin said that he heard a noise and awoke and went to the doorway and peeked into the living room. Sue was laying on the sofa and the two men he described previously were standing in the center of the room. John and Dana came home and entered the front door. John argues with the two men and a fight starts. Dana tried to get away and fled towards the kitchen when the brown-haired man strikes him with the hammer. Sue rushes to John's aid and Justin returned to his room and hid behind the door. The suspects then tied up Johnny and Dana.

82. Tina comes out of her room dragging a blanket, and asks, "What's going on?" The two men then rush to Tina and grab her by the arms and drag her out the back door as she cries "help, help." Later, the brown-haire suspect returns and covers up Sue with the blanket.

83. Justin told his mother that someone had a sweatsuit on. Johnny's hands were tied and there was blood all over his face. He talked about the TV. Justin said that Johnny and Dana came in at midnight.

84. Justin states, "The man fighting with Johnny called Mrs. Sharp "Sue". Justin said that Johnny was protecting Sue.

85. Justin states that "Sue was cut in the middle of the chest by a black-haired man using a pocketknife."

86. Justin states that in his "dream" that "I ran down to Mrs. Sharp. She had a cut on her chest. I took a rag and put it on her chest!"

87. Justin then got back into bed and covered himself with a blanket were he fell asleep in about an hour.
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Postby dcheryl83 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:11 am

Justin doesn't mention WHEN Sue was attacked.

He states that Sue was lying on the sofa.

He describes Johnny and Dana coming in and describes their attacks leading one to believe that maybe Sue had already been assaulted.

He says Johnny was protecting Sue.

However, he says that Sue rushes to Johnnys aid after Dana tried to run.

The two boys are then tied up.

Sue didn't bolt out the front door when Tina was taken out the back, nor did she follow the perps to try and prevent them from taking Tina.

When exactly was Sue attacked? Does any of the evidence suggest who was killed first?
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Postby dcheryl83 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:15 am

PLEASE READ THIS FIRST: A work in progress, this timeline will attempt to gather basic information regarding the Keddie Murders in logical order. The information presented here will be taken from official sources whenever possible. I have presented some insight into the victims as provided by family and friends because it might be relevant to the case. I have made a few notes in yellow along the way, doing my best to differentiate between fact and rumor. Of course, one could argue that nearly everything in this timeline is rumor to begin with. Please help me add to this timeline, if you can, by writing to [email protected].

1. In November of 1980, the Sharp family moves into Cabin 28 in Keddie, California. The Sharp family consisted of Glenna "Sue" Sharp, 36; John, 15; Sheila, 14; Rick, 13; Tina, 12; and Greg, [will post age].

2. John Sharp befriends 17-year-old Dana Wingate, who, at the time of the murders, was living in a receiving home run by Dan Doris.

3. Though it has been speculated that Sue Sharp dealt in drugs and/or prostitution, there has never been any concrete evidence to support these ideas. People who knew Sue described her as quiet and kind. Sue's husband, James Sharp, was out of state at the the time of the Keddie homicides.

4. Dana was known to drink, smoke pot, and occasionally get into trouble. He once smashed out some lights at the Quincy airstrip. However, by all accounts, he was a kindhearted and fun-loving person.

5. Siblings, relatives and teachers of Tina Sharp describe her as somewhat "slow" in school; otherwise, by all accounts, Tina is a vivacious girl with angelic features and beautiful blue eyes.

6. John, or Johnny, Sharp was the daredevil of the family, known to climb bridge girders and play practical jokes on his siblings and cousins. Like his friend Dana, John did drink beer and smoke pot.

7. Sometime in the afternoon on April 11th, 1981, Dana asks Dan Doris if he can spend the night at John Sharp's house that evening. Mr. Doris gives his consent, but his wife insists that John and Dana not hitchhike the seven miles from Quincy to Keddie.

8. John and Dana do decide to hitchhike and are spotted several times throughout the afternoon and early evening [ see below].

9. Meanwhile, Sheila Sharp decides to spend the night with her friend at the Seabolt house next door to Cabin 28. Though Tina usually spends the night at the Seabolts on Saturdays, it is decided that only the older girls, Sheila and Alicia Seabolt, would have the sleepover.

10. Sheila states that at the time she went over to the Seabolt residence, she was unaware of Tina's whereabouts. "She could have been outside playing," Sheila suggests later. According to police, Tina arrives at the Sharp cabin on the evening of April 11th at 9:30 p.m. to go to bed.

11. Sometime during that early evening, Johnny and Dana are at Kathy McCinley's (possible misspelling) house. They are both sober. They had not been drinking or smoking pot, Kathy explains to police later. According to Kathy, they were going to hitchhike to Keddie. John said his mother was expecting them. A diabetic, Dana did have a shot of insulin while at Kathy's.

12. Robert Preston and Bob Whipple are driving past Lumas Motor Supply and see Dana and Johnny hitchhiking. Dana is carrying a large brown shopping bag. Johnny is wearing a red bandana.


13. Donald Rumsey sees Dana and Johnny hitchhiking at the country store on Fairgrounds Road. Rumsey says later that he gave Dana a ride to the Exxon station, but not Johnny. Rumsey was on a motorcyle. Dana tells Rumsey that some people are after him (Dana).

14. According to many sources, John and Dana attend a party at Oakland Camp, near Keddie. After the murders, then sheriff Doug Thomas appealed to the youth of Quincy and Keddie to come forward with any information regarding the party, assuring them that they would be not charged with drug use or underage drinking. At that time, however, no one came forward.

15. There has been much speculation as to who gave John and Dana a ride to Keddie. Some people say it was someone named Cathy or Kathy, perhaps the Kathy McCinley from # 11 above; Craig Walters, a frequent visitor to message boards devoted to these crimes, states that he gave the boys the ride to Keddie, though he did not tell police this after the murders; on the Keddie Murders timeline in the PCSO, Jose Carvalino (possible misspelling) states that he gave the boys a ride to Keddie that evening.

16. According to police reports, the PCSO cannot verify the whereabouts of John and Dana after 10:15 p.m. on April 11th. PCSO states that the two boys were last seen hitchhiking toward Keddie from the corner of Crescent and Lawrence Streets in downtown Quincy between 9 and 10:15 p.m. that evening.

17. Living a few cabins away from the Sharp family are Martin and Marilyn Smartt. John "Bo" Boubede, a friend of Martin's, lives with them. According to police, Martin and Bo met at a veteran's hospital in Reno, Nevada.

18. According to Marilyn, that evening Marty and Bo want to go to the Backdoor, a bar in Keddie. Bo needed a partner, so Martin insists that Marilyn ask Sue Sharp to attend. Sue declines the offer, which, according to Marilyn, makes Martin and Bo angry.

19. According to Marilyn, Martin and Bo stayed late at the Keddie bar. Marilyn says later that she went to sleep early that evening. In the documentary, Marilyn states that she woke up at approximately 2 a.m. to see Martin and Bo burning something in the wood stove.

20. Meanwhile, a friend of the Sharp family, 13-year-old Justin [last name withheld by request], is spending the night in Cabin 28 with Rick and Greg Sharp. Justin remembers having popcorn and watching the television show, "The Love Boat." According to many sources, the three boys were in one of the side bedrooms in Cabin 28.

21. After the murders, Justin gives the police two stories. First, Justin says he had a dream that night in which he witnessed certain aspects of the murders taking place. Then, Justin tells investigating officers that he did not have a dream and that he was an actual witness to the crimes. The following incidents, # 22-26, are taken from Justin's statements to police.

22. Justin said that he heard a noise and that he came out into the living room. Two men are standing in the center of the room. Then John and Dana come home and enter the front room.

23. John is arguing with the two men and a fight starts. Dana tries to get away and flees toward the kitchen when the brown-haired man strikes him with a hammer. Sue rushes to John's aid and Justin returns to his room and is looking from the door. The suspects then tie up Johnny and Dana.

24. Tina comes out of her room, dragging a blanket. She asks, "What's going on?" The two men rush to Tina, grab her by the arms, and drag her out the back door as she cries "help, help!" Later, the brown-haired suspect returns and covers up Sue with a blanket.

25. Justin hears one of the suspects say Sue's name. The suspect has brown hair, past his ears, curly at the end. He wears the same kind of glasses as the other man and the same kind of clothes, according to Justin.

26. Justin says the man used a knife on Johnny. "I was down by Sue, trying to take care of her. All the blood was running down."

27. A statement from then sheriff Doug Thomas after the murders: "We have reason to believe that the three were dead sometime between midnight and 2 a.m."

28. According to published reports, "no one heard anything," not even the late-night strollers who passed directly by Cabin 28.

29. There is no sign of forced entry in the cabin. There are signs throughout the cabin that there was a struggle during the murders.

30. Sheila Sharp returns home on the morning of April 12th, 1981, and steps through the front door. She observes the three victims on the floor; she also notes a bent knife. She runs back to the Seabolt residence and tells Zonita Seabolt what she saw. Mrs. Seabolt departs for another cabin to call the police.

31. With the aid of the Seabolts, Sheila retrieves Justin, Rick and Greg from out the bedroom window. Justin states later that he was scared to return home at that time.

32. Police arrive at the scene, including then sheriff Doug Thomas.

33. Located in the cabin were some additional knife marks in the short east interior wall between the two south wall windows. But there was nothing conclusive that a knife had been left sticking into the wall when the suspect or suspects left. All the knife marks on that wall were slightly raised on one side, indicating that the knife was removed after being stuck into the wall. It was removed at an angle to the right.

34. Later, FBI agent Larry Ott describes observing all the knife marks on the wall.

35. According to PCSO officer Klement: John was lying face up with hands bound as well as his feet. The binding on his feet led to Dana Wingate, who was lying face down. The binding, an electrical cord, was also tied around the feet of Dana WIngate. Dana was lying on his right arm with his left arm to his side.

36. Dana's head was on a cushion on the floor. Sue was on the other side of the living room and her hands were bound with electrical wire which led to her feet in front, which were also bound by the same wire. Sue also had blood about her head and neck. All three bodies were cold and still.

37. There was a bent steak knife near John Sharp and also a butcher knife and a claw hammer in the living room that were also used as weapons. The last two items were side by side on a small wooden table near the entry into the kitchen. They were also blood covered.

38. The male victims were fully clothed. The female was covered with a blanket. All three had been either stabbed or bludgeoned or both.

39. The phone was off the hook. All the drapes were pulled close. There were no lights on in the house except for the light in the bedroom. The door to the children's bedroom could not be closed due to clothing lying in the doorway. The blinds in the children's bedroom are hanging out the window and the window is open.

40. Seized and entered into evidence were a fingerprint from a roof post at the bottom of the rear stairs outside, and a button found on the ground at the rear of the residence.

41. As the victims are being identified, Justin insists to Doug Thomas that Tina is missing. According to Justin, he says this repeatedly to Mr. Thomas.

42. While under hypnosis conducted by Doug Thomas, Justin describes two suspects who did the killings to Reno Police Department artist Harlan Embry. Embry draws a composite of the sketches. According to Thomas, hypnotism was used because it can bring out knowledge from people that would not surface when they are conscious

43. According to some people, the two sketches resemble Martin Smartt and John "Bo" Boubede. Others say the sketches resemble John Sessions and Dale Meeks.

44. Martin Smartt tells police that his hammer was missing. It had a steel head and a blue steel handle. According to then sheriff Doug Thomas, Martin would provide endless clues and possible evidence of what happened that night, each one designed to throw the suspicion away from him, according to Thomas.

45. Shortly after the murders, Martin Smartt checks into the same hotel as John Boubede in Klamath Falls, Oregon, and they share the room.

46. Sheila Sharp tells police that an off white colored wooden tool box is missing from the kitchen next to the refrigerator. It contained vice grips, pliers, and screwdrivers, normally. It also contained the hammer used as a weapon. Also missing are Tina's brown lace-up shoes with the word "GASS" on the sole. Tina's red coat is also missing. It is a nylon coat, waist length with a zipper front.

47. In the documentary, Marilyn Smartt explains that a coat belonging to Tina was found in their basement that had blood on it. Is this the same red nylon coat that was missing from Cabin 28?

48. There is much speculation as to whether or not this toolbox (see # 46) is the same "box" that others say was a school project belonging to Tina. Some speculate that Tina was fond of a shoebox used possibly for a school project and that she took this with her from the cabin. Again, no one has determined if these are one in the same. Neither box has ever been recovered.

49. A ramp to a gun sight was found in the Sharp home.

50. A blue windbreaker-type jacket with red/white stripes was found on the floor next to the victim Wingate at the crime scene.

51. A man named Chuck Walke was observed by someone named Maggie to have cuts on his hands that had scabbed over and appeared to be old.

52. It was reported that Martin Smartt checked out of hotel in Klamath Falls with a white female adult about 30 years old in a red van.

53. According to Thomas, a two-day intensive search of the Keddie area by four dog teams turned up absolutely no trace of Tina Sharp.

54. A week after the murders, Thomas says in published reports, "It looks more and more with every day passing that Tina is probably not going to be found alive." According to Thomas, the FBI has "backed off" from the case. The FBI initially entered the case because it was theorized that Tina had been kidnapped.

55. A week after the murders, Thomas states that there is no physical search for Tina being conducted at that time. "The investigation is not moving as fast as we would like it, but we still feel it will be solved," Thomas says.

56. Blood samples taken from the walls, floors and other items in the house have all turned up as Type O in laboratory experiments, according to Thomas. Thomas says, "But that doesn't help, because the entire Sharp family has "O" blood."

57. Autopsies reveal that there were no signs of drugs or alcohol in any of the victims. In addition, no drugs or stolen goods were found in the Sharp home.

58. There were no definite defensive wounds on John or Dana, but there were several on Sue.

59. Rumors circulate that the murders involved an occult or devil-worshippers, though Thomas claims these are only rumors and have no merit. During the documentary, several residents of Quincy state that "Satan worship" was involved, but these claims have never been verified.

60. Carla McMullen states that Johnny and Dana had stolen ten sheets of acid from someone and that was why they were killed.

61. Terry Alger said that [the murders] were because of a big dope deal and someone was at the wrong place [at the wrong time].

62. Marilyn Smartt said she felt her husband Martin and his friend John Boubede could have committed the murders.

63. Lividity on legs of Wingate indicates he was in a semi or sitting position at the time of his murder. This was confirmed in an interview we conducted with Doug Thomas.

64. The investigation includes an examination of similar murder cases in the region, state and as far away as Florida, "but there's been nothing to totally link those other murders to this case," Thomas says. "Someone out there knows something."

65. In 1984, Tina's remains are discovered by a bottle collector in Feather Falls in Butte County, about 50-60 miles away from Keddie. See deleted scenes for the location site.

66. A search of the area where Tina's remains were found turned up empty medical taped dispenser, a portion of a pair of Levi's with one missing rear pocket, and a decomposed blue nylon jacket.

67. In the documentary, Marilyn and the Meeks family are convinced that Martin Smartt and John "Bo" Boubede committed the murders. On message boards about these crimes, the Smartt family has defended Martin's name, stating that he was cleared of all possible suspicion by the PCSO. The Smartt family has confirmed Martin's death due to cancer in [date needed].

68. According to Doug Thomas, one possible suspect is a man who disappeared from Keddie shortly after the slayings and then turned up in Oregon. "But we gave him a polygraph and he passed it," Thomas says. "We found out he had gone to Oregon for employment." This may be a reference to Martin Smartt, but I can't confirm this.

69. In our last interview with Justin, he claims to remember nothing from that night. According to message boards, Marilyn Smartt has since changed her mind about who committed the murders.
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Postby dcheryl83 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:18 am

Sorry MK. I see you already posted this in another section of "Pieces Of Evidence" Gonna leave it here too unless you think I should delete it.
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Postby Magnum PI » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:02 am

They were watching Love Boat that night! It sounds pretty simple really, Justin is simple mixing the two things he last remembers. Scenes from the Love Boat episode and parts of the crime he witnessed.
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Postby the celt » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:38 am

Where the foot prints just in the living room or both living room and kitchen? Sue could have also ran to see if dana was ok . Dana was hit in the head and head wounds bleed ,a lot. Was there evidence that dana was dragged into the living room after he was struck on the head? How do we know that sue wasn't forced to help tie the boys up after all we dont know who was tied up first. Maybe sue was hurt and couldn't go after tina and the perps and when the one perp came back he finished the job. Just a thought.
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Postby dmac » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:41 pm

Here's a photo Josh put on the Facebook page. I've cropped it, reoriented it, and cleaned it. It's a shot of the shoes between the circular footstool and the couch, and the red (jogging trunks?) clothing. It's a black & white photo, but the color shots show it to be red trunks or a top with white striping.

Image

Note the amount of what look like blood drops on the left-foot sneaker near the stool? Notice the same round droplet patterns on the carpet? That is pretty controlled blood-flow from a source that is at least kneeling, likely standing, yet not moving around. These droplets indicate the person was bleeding from something as like a bad bloody nose, or non-arterial cut: A wound that bleeds a lot yet does not spray. The lack of outward trajectory of the droplets shows the victim was wounded, kneeling or standing, and not moving around.

In other words, the person was bleeding quite a lot, but not going anywhere.

Next to it are blood stains and smudges on the floor, LE ID cards pointed towards the camera (yet illegible in this version), and the ID card #17. Next to the heel of the right-foot sneaker is a rounded piece of something. Other photos suggest it is not resting fully against the carpet. It appears to rest so closely to the sneaker's heel, but was it (and/or the sneakers) there before the attack? Did Sue's glasses get destroyed in the attacks and this is a remnant of the plastic frame?

If you see the color shots of the crime scene from the book or web, they show the red shorts (or top) with the white striping. When I was cleaning up the shot, a stain pattern appeared by simply removing all color from the shot and increasing static contrast. If you see this image the way I do, there appears to be a large stain engulfing the center of the fabric, as well as portions of the fabric which were bundled or folded outwards.

Where do the above deductions and suppositions lead? You can see blood everywhere around those droplets, yet they were not stepped in: the victim was quite injured and bleeding enough for immediate care, but would not budge. Nearly the entire section of panels from the wall between the living room crime scene and the boys' room were removed, taken into evidence. Justin claims he saw it by peeking from behind the boys' room door, which is physically impossible in and of itself. Mentions of the boys' room door having a bloody handprint, but was it the girls' room with the bloody print, or both?

I'd like to see the exact language concerning Sue's "bloody footprints". You don't have to put your entire foot into a paint bucket to make footprints, so the reports should help clarify how much blood Sue stepped in, and where prints were found, perhaps further clarifying at which stage of the crime it occurred.

Until then, this last portion of this thread has tabled enough worthy discussion for some time, if we stay focused.

Lots to discuss, let's keep on top of what's come out of these recent posts.

d

PS.Here's an edit of the above photo, with color layers to indicate possible blood patterns:


Image

Blue: possible blood droplets as outlined above- it appears there may already be a pattern on the shoes, but there is certainly evidence of droplets on the shoes running over and down the heel.

Yellow: blood stain on/inside red clothing

Green: possible blood stain on curtain of couch (compare it to other shots, it stands out)

and, for reference from another POV, here's a shot of the two widely-available color shots of the crime scene which I've color-corrected and spliced together, alongside the above black and white angle, plus a recently-added facebook shot of the crime scene from near the front doorway (notice the panels of wall on the right which have been cut away--- the other side of that wall is the boys' room):

Image

I hope it all adds up to some worthy discussion-

d

.
Last edited by dmac on Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Indigo » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:13 pm

I found this fascinating and commend you on your work, dmac. We know that Dana was most probably kneeling at some point due to the lack of blood on the front of his jeans, and may also explain the lividity in his legs. And this is right next to the area where his body was found.

I studied the broken off rounded item behind the shoe, and while it doesn't look like Sue's glasses (from any photos I have seen of her, too rounded) if you look at the glasses drawn on the shorter haired suspect and black out half a lens, it might be a possibility.
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Postby Magnum PI » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:24 pm

Indigo...Good one ! I have looked at that several times wondering what it was.
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Postby dmac » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:32 pm

I believe I was editing my original post, adding more photos, etc, when you replied, Indigo. I often do that- try to add more info to an unanswered post instead of adding a new one.

I don't believe Dana was the only victim under control that night, and his body was found right next to the others, and it appears staging was blatantly involved. I was really trying to point out a blood pattern showing control over at least one of the victims, plus our lack of knowledge concerning the language/evidence of footprints, in order to focus arguments on what we've discovered in recent posts (rediscovered, that is) instead of losing focus on conjecture about when Sue maybe might have could have left footprints.

Thanks for the compliment, but I seem not to have made my point, which is discouraging. Still, you did understand and see some merit in what I was talking about, so thanks.

-------------

Eyeglass frames, particularly plastic ones, don't hold their shape when broken. If anything, the object is nearly too thin for the only frames (plastic) I've ever seen Sue wear (she's never without them in photos), and far too thick (and non-reflective) for metal frames of the era. Both perps were supposedly wearing metal-framed aviator sunglasses, as per Justin's ID. So, let's not focus on that object as being part of Sue's or anybody's eyeglasses. It's position, shape, and proximity to a scene of immense struggle, makes it worthy of conjecture. I didn't mean to shine a light on it, though... it was a minor conjecture in the framework of my overall post.

Any other ideas? That little object is interesting, but let's not lose the whole thread to it. Perhaps a new thread would be of absolute merit. I propose "What the Hell is THAT?" as the name of the thread.
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Postby Indigo » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:33 pm

dmac wrote:...Perhaps a new thread would be of absolute merit. I propose "What the Hell is THAT?" as the name of the thread.



Fair enough, I'll do just that....
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Postby dmac » Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:43 pm

Notice several things in these photos. Look closely, it's got a lot of discussion built in:

Image

One thing: the cover to the cushion has been removed (placed into evidence?) and cushion replaced near it's original CS position. You see the yellow cushion and it's white slip. Notice the large chunks of paneling taken from the wall? Note the layout of the kitchen? The high counter, the bookcase that hits the ceiling (14" wide roughly). Note the lip on the entryway from the bedroom side of the cabin into the living room? That's 2" of further physical impossibilities Justin's statements don't comply with. Are those pieces of cardboard on the carpet meant to protect bloodstains?

Was somebody sitting on the round footstool to deposit the blood droplets? they seem in line with (parallel to) it.

Just a few things I see.
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Postby tinkerbell » Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:31 pm

dmac
i do believe the cushion is still there, just the cover and it looks to me that they cut the parts of the carpet out where the main blood stains were.
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Postby Indigo » Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:46 pm

The bookcase that hits the ceiling in the kitchen? That's not just the side of the kitchen cabinets? It's really hard to tell in the photo.

To me it seems like someone may possibly have been sitting on the white footstool and holding the red shorts (or whatever they are) against a wound as it's blood soaked rather than "merely" dripped on. Perhaps this is where Dana was sitting for a time?

And, as an aside, I'm also wondering at the possibility of the blanket that was used in covering Sue being the same blanket Tina supposedly walked out with (if anything Justin has said can be believed).
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Postby dmac » Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:44 pm

Tinkerbell: to clarify, I was saying the cushion is there (including the white slip). The casing had been unzipped and removed, but the cushion was put back roughly in to place.

As for carpet being cut out, I disagree. The flash unit on the camera was mounted on top, and no matter how you twist the camera to make a shot, the shadows prove the orientation of the camera and objects in view. I initially thought the carpet was cut out, but closer inspection shows something on top of the carpet instead of pieces of carpet missing.

No shadows from the flash, much less common shadows from said flash unit, showing what should be the wood-paneled floor. If the landlord installed padding below the carpeting, I'd be surprised, but were it there it would be green or blue, not brown, and it would be irregularly checkered.

Indigo: the above graphic I made of visible POV from boys'/girls' rooms kinda includes the bookcase in the kitchen partition. I've shown that bar in most of my attempts at floorplans (http://c28.layerv.com/diag/index.html), but I haven't had the chance to show the lip into the living room, the kitchen bar seen in the photo, et al. I'm just wrapping my head around it myself.

Tinker always argued that the stove wasn't where I showed it. She was right. I've fixed that. I couldn't imagine a landlord paying to move gas pipes just to reorient the stove and reduce the kitchen bar, so I always placed it where I saw it in all post-81 photos. Hell, he probably paid a local 5$ to do it.

Indigo wrote:To me it seems like someone may possibly have been sitting on the white footstool and holding the red shorts (or whatever they are) against a wound as it's blood soaked rather than "merely" dripped on.


I must disagree wholeheartedly. From what I see, the clothing was static on the floor, and the bleeding done into it. It looks pasted to the floor, as though the blood ran through it and into the carpet below. It looks almost adhered to the carpet. It creeps over the sides of the bundles of clothing, like a progressing stain. No smudge or smear. The fact there are no similar blood droplets on it does seem to time it's placement after the droplets were already there. All those droplets near it, but not one clearly on the red clothing? Incongruous. If anything, there may have been more droplets below the red clothing.

The red clothing was perhaps used as another cushion. It certainly wasn't moved around when the massive stain occurred. Perhaps it's another part of the staging.


Tinker- please let me know if you're at all uneasy with my use of photos.
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Postby tinkerbell » Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:08 pm

I am fine with the photos, the ones that have been posted online are ones Josh has shown me. I chose not to see the ones of the family and Dana in them.
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Postby meankitty » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:21 am

I think the red piece of clothing is most likely a pair of QHS P.E. shorts.
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Postby dcheryl83 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:56 am

Can anyone tell me where Johnnys body was located? I understand that marker #12 is Dana and that the other outline is Sue. Where in relation to this picture was Johnny located?

Item #14 in the same photo. Is that a section of the cushion thats been cut out or is it a cloth?


BTW: Great work dmac. Having the photos available during this discussion makes a huge differeence. Puts everything in to perspective. And keeps the discussion on topic. Thanks for sharing it with us.
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Postby tinkerbell » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:17 am

Johnny was right by the front door
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Postby jhancock » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:55 am

Here is a picture taken from inside the cabin, facing the front door. You can see the outline of where Johnny's body was. The landlord confirmed that the hole in the bottom wall to the right of the door was already there before the murders.


http://keddie28.com/gal/Crime%20Scene/C ... afba3.html
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