Hypnosis session

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Hypnosis session

Postby jhancock » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:17 pm

In Cabin 28: The Keddie Murders Part II, you'll see and hear excerpts from one of the hypnosis sessions conducted by the sheriff's office and a hypnotherapist. There will also be some additional deleted scenes posted on our YouTube channel, featuring audio from other hypnosis sessions connected to the case, plus an interview with the hypnotherapist who hypnotized Justin just a few years ago.

Because some of the people hypnotized were underage at the time of the sessions, we have decided to not post their responses under hypnosis. However, by providing the psychologist's questions and comments (as in the example below), we hope to give you a clear idea of the topics discussed during the session.

The following is an excerpt from a hypnosis session conducted with one of the boys who was in the side bedroom of Cabin 28 on the night of the murders. When the psychologist refers to a "tape," he is referring to an imaginary videotape on which the patient can "watch" the events of the murder. I'll add to this thread throughout the week.

Psych: Sheriff, are there any other questions that you would like to ask [patient]?

Sheriff Doug Thomas: (very low conversation with the psych)

Psych: Are you going to have to leave or...

DT: In about ten minutes. I'll just have someone else come in and change the tape. You can go as long as you want.

Psych: Alright. [Patient], you're doing just great now. Sheriff Thomas did ask me to talk to you about a couple of more things, and I agree it would be important to have you talk about these things in a little bit of detail. I would like to go back on this tape to the point of which these, uh, two men are having a fight. I would like you to tell me just what you see them doing as we look at the tape. And you describe just what you see them doing, what kind of fight, what happened to Johnny and Dana and the mother.

Psych: The mom gets cut in the chest. And what does she get cut with?

Psych: With a knife? Suppose we zoom in real close on that, okay? Real close on that. And I'd like you, please, to describe just everything that you see about her getting cut with the knife.

Psych: Mm, mm. Do you see the pocket knife there?

Psych: Now, let's zoom in real tight, get a real close-up shot and take a good long look at that pocket knife, and describe everything about it that you see.

Psych: Some other gadgets on it? Mmm, mm. What other gadgets do you see on that pocket knife?

Psych: And scissors, okay. A spoon and a fork. And does that knife have any kind of writing on it?...Any kind of symbol?...or sign on it?

Psych: Who's holding that knife or who's using that knife?...The man in the black hair. Now I'd like you to zoom in and focus in and tell me just what he's doing with that knife.

Psych: He's cutting her. And tell me where he's cutting her...And looking very closely, you can describe as best you can, just where on her chest he's cutting her....Take a big close look and say where he's cutting her on the chest.

Psych: Right in the middle? Mmm, mm. And what's the lady doing, what's their mother doing?

Psych: And is that man in the black hair saying anything?...He's saying Sue? ...I'd like you to tell me if you have, if you remember any sound or noise, anything that stands out that you remember.

Psych: A what?

Psych: Can you tell me more about that noise, about the thumping?

Psych: Was there more than one thump? Or just one?...Three thumps? Anything else besides the thump...?
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Re: Hypnosis session

Postby meankitty » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:15 am

All I can say is WOW. I guess the swiss army knife found in the dumpster really did belong to a perp.
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Re: Hypnosis session

Postby jhancock » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:08 pm

Here is additional excerpts from this hypnosis session. Again, only the psychologist's words are printed below, but you can get a strong idea of the patient's responses. This is taken from the same session as above, conducted between a psychologist and one of the boys who was in the side bedroom the night that the murders occurred.

Psych: Is there something else on the "tape" that you see? Well, you're really doing a terrific job, and just being very, very accurate and helpful and I'm going to ask you to stay relaxed more and go over some of these things with me. Alright? I'm going to go back to almost the beginning of the tape. Do you see the mother still lying there and the TV is still on and and you and Ricky start talking and then you said that you have a dream and that's kind of interesting to me and I would like you to talk to me a little bit about that and tell me what you mean when you say I have a dream, because you say me and Ricky start talking and then I had the dream. Can you tell me more about that please?

Psych: You had the dream about the fight?

Psych: And aside from what you are calling the dream, do you recall anything else from that evening, anything at all? Anything at all that took place?

Psych: Anything that you may have heard or saw. Anything at all that you might remember?

Psych: Listen, let me ask you about what you recall in the dream, okay? You say that in the dream you're about a mile away from the shore. There's a lot of people on your boat, and Johnny and Dana get in a fight with a man.

Psych: And there is another man who has the same clothes?

Psych: Yes? Now who throws Johnny and Dana overboard?

Psych: The two men, okay. Are those the two men that you talked about before when the [sketch] artist was here?

Psych: Okay, good....Now, staying very relaxed and comfortable, and you can open your eyes but stay in the hypnosis now, and take a good look at this first drawing. This is exactly the way you would like it to be?

Psych: Okay. Now take a look at this other drawing. I'm going to show you the second drawing and I'd like you to do the same thing, okay? What about that drawing?

Psych: [Patient], do you know who this man is?

Psych: If you take a real good look at him...Have you ever seen a person like that before?

Psych: In the dream. Okay. Have you ever seen him outside the dream?

Psych: No?...Relax for a minute, take a couple more deep breaths and I'll give you a little break, just a little rest...what else can you tell me about the clothes that these two men are wearing?

Psych: What color are those jackets?

Psych: And both men have the same blue jackets or different?

Psych: The same. Okay. And how about the pants, what color?

Psych: Same as the jackets. The tee shirts, what color?

Psych: They're white....do you remember anything at all about your conversations with Ricky that night?

Psych: And that's all, huh? Is there anything that happened that night that is bothering you or worrying you? Anything about what happened that's upsetting you?

[No response]

Psych: Well, I know that you have cooperated very nicely, that you've helped out a great deal and you know sometimes people remember things after they leave the office and if you do I think it would be very important for you to get back in touch with Sheriff Thomas just in case there's anything else you remember about that night that you can tell him. You've been very relaxed and very cooperative the whole time and in just a moment, I'm going to have you come up out of the hypnosis and I'm going to do so by counting from one to five.

*the next post will be from the hypnosis sessions conducted by Sheriff Thomas himself.
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Re: Hypnosis session

Postby meankitty » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:40 am

I was wrong about the knife being a swiss army knife. It sound more like a type of knife called a 'hobo knife'. Here is a picture of one. Image
Image
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Re: Hypnosis session

Postby Ausgirl » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:47 pm

Uh. Unless the perps were planning on spooning somebody to death, how in hell would Justin see what utensils that knife had on it.

I doubt the perps, in thier killing frenzy, stopped for a snack or to show off the extra features of said knife.
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Re: Hypnosis session

Postby CoffeeOD » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:57 pm

Ausgirl wrote:Uh. Unless the perps were planning on spooning somebody to death, how in hell would Justin see what utensils that knife had on it.


Wow I actually remember people having knives like this back when I was a kid. If I remember correctly the spoon is on the outside because it doesn't actually fold back into place. It kind of sticks out off the side of the handle when it's not being used. If you closed the knife and reversed the position of the photos you'd see the spoon outside of the handle and would easily be recognized.
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Re: Hypnosis session

Postby Ausgirl » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:59 pm

And the fork? And the scissors? Across a room, in which people are being murdered?

Either he was 2 feet away, or he'd seen that knife somewhere else.
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Re: Hypnosis session

Postby CoffeeOD » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:57 pm

Ausgirl wrote:And the fork? And the scissors? Across a room, in which people are being murdered?

Either he was 2 feet away, or he'd seen that knife somewhere else.


The spoon sticks out and usually at least one of the fork tines can be seem VERY easily and not just from 2 feet away. Also, if it was a Swiss Army type knife almost any boy his age knows the kinds of tools it has even with the most basic of those knives.

I know from personal experience that when you see something horiffic like this there are obvious things that you don't notice and little, inconsequential things that you do remember. Here's a very real example:

When I was 20 I got off work bartending and headed home at like 2:30am with my girlfriend following behind me in her car. As we approached a bridge that I had to go over I saw a smashed Ford Thunderbird laying in the road in the oncoming lane at the bottom of the bridge and thought "damn, I need to tell my ex girlfriend to trade in her car" because this one didn't look like it took an accident very well...it was worse than totalled. Driving by I saw my ex's best friend kneeling on the ground crying, but it took me 200-300 yards, driving about 30 miles an hour, to make the connection between her friend and what appeared to be my ex's car. Fast forward to me running up to the scene of the accident...

When I got there my ex's best friend ran, crying her eyes out, over and hugged me. Apparently my ex's friend was wearing her seatbelt and nmy ex wasn't when her car hit the aluminum fence protecting pedestrians from cars and it spun the car around and threw my ex from her car at 60-70 mph. When I looked down on her she looked like she was just laying down, moaning but otherwise didn't look injured. Her friend's only injuries seemed to be cuts on her palms and knees rom leaning oer my ex laying in the road.

Things I didn't notice:

- When driving by and seeing my ex's best friend, I didn't notice that she was kneeling over my ex. Somehow I didn't see a human being, someone that I knew and cared about, on the ground.
- I thought she would be OK, but that's because somehow I didn't notice a very large pool of blood she was laying in.
- I didn't notice that her body was contorted in a way that human bodies could never lay unless there was something very very wrong.
- Although I grew up in the town and lived there all my live I have no idea what hospital she was taken to, even though I followed the ambulance there, then home.

Things I did notice:

- Her friend's injuries. Although small I noticed every injury her friend had.
- I noticed my ex's blouse was one she wore fairly often when going out at night on the weekend.
- I noticed all the broken glass and pieces of the car were strewn all over a huge area.

When I got in my girlfriend's car to follow the ambulance I remarked how lucky my ex was and that she would be ok. On the way to the hospital my girlfriend informed me about the huge pool of blood and her contorted body. Once she told me it's like my brian went back to the scene of the accident and uncovered parts that it wouldn't let me see before.


I don't know why, but the human brain can redact things from your memory in horiffic situations, probably to protect you. Maybe this is what happened to Justin, maybe not. I do know that it's altogether possible he saw what happened and his brain just said "nope, that's not good for you to remember, so you won't". Based on what happened to me I could see how he could remember seemingly inconsequential things and not seem to remember very important things.
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Re: Hypnosis session

Postby Eastern » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:36 pm

Bingo CoffeeOD. I just shake my head at people claiming they remember every minute detail of a very serious and traumatic event in their life. It generally takes years to even remember some major details. I think Justin gets a bum rap.
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Re: Hypnosis session

Postby Ausgirl » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:10 pm

Yep, I have my own experiences with how memory is the air bag of the mind, sometimes, and the way it works in general. I am also deeply sympathetic towards Justin and how traumatic this must have been for him. But in this instance - nuh. I can't see how a smallish knife held in somebody's fist in the middle of a murder across a room equals seeing those details.

I can see how maybe he'd 'recall' the details from having seen it before somewhere else, or having seen one somewhat like it. Or maybe the perp threatening him with it up close, with the handle exposed a bit, maybe, if he held it by the blade...

We'll have to agree to disagree, here.
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Re: Hypnosis session

Postby ForensicGirl » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:07 am

The inherent problem with testimonial evidence, not to mention testimony given under hypnossis, is that it is given by people and as such is subject to alteration. People may purposefully lie, misperceive events, or unknowingly fill in the blanks in their perceptions. However, physical evidence never lies. We can misinterpret it or be misled by it, but that is the human factor and not associated with the physical evidence itself. It is dreadful to think about the problems with the physical evidence in this case.
Loops, Whorls, and Arches...oh my!
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